What have we come to

Bobtheman · 10-02-2020 9:22pm

I don't approve of the thugs SF still hang with. Thugs who would beat a young man to death.
But we have thugs in suits who wrecked a nation . Who caused hundred's of suicides. Mass emmigration. Marriages wrecked. Way beyond any damage the IRA did
Let's not forget that both the DUP and the conservative party in the Uk supported their own armed miltia in the UDA
The time will come when SF have to dump the IRA thugs just like the workers party had to dump the official IRA
SF approves of the PSNI and accepts the Guards thus why does it not condemn punishment shootings and beating a young man to death ?

jam_mac_jam · 10-02-2020 9:22pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Of course it is relevant is The poster Matt Barrett is anti FG vehemently so and picked the name of Leo's partner as his user name.

No i mean my comment that the real Matt Barrett is quite attractive is not relevant. That's what i meant by alright.

Sorry. Wasn't disagreeing

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 9:23pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Lads we'd an arms dealer as Taoiseach for three terms, (Haughey) and the state was founded by a shinner terrorist, (Collins), so I think ML has the moral high ground

Glib comment deny and deflect. You mention something that happened decades ago when it suits in one post. Yet in all the others you say we should forget the past and move on.
Now you are trying to ignore the present comments of a sitting Sinn Fein TD who was referring to the past.

SF people must get fierce heartburn with all the deny, deflect, discredit tactics.

James Brown · 10-02-2020 9:23pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Nobody is defending the other side though. Nobody is saying up the paras

Never suggested that was the argument. It wasn't by the way. Saying all sides had issues was 'callous' seemingly.

Gynoid wrote: »

I can 100% tell you I am genuine, and am only biting my tongue from lashing you out of it.

If the IRA were terrorists it stands so were the BA, the only difference was a government condoned and covered up for the BA and the IRA were operating under a faux democratic system they didn't agree with.

blanch152 · 10-02-2020 9:24pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'll have to run the bolded bit by me again...makes no sense as a point.

As to the bit that I can understand...the government will need negotiators in the EU, to negotiate our position within the 27. When that is understood by the trade deal negotiators they will decide whether to make it a part of their demands when talking to the UK.

At no point will we be dealing with the UK in those trade talks. It would be good if you could inform yourself on these things before wading in.

That just shows the shallow limitations of the SF aspirations. FG, through their diplomatic skills and links to other major European political parties were able to take centre stage and lead and drive the negotiations. Don’t think Syriza have the same influence so yeah, we will just have to engage in supplication.

pjohnson · 10-02-2020 9:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That just shows the shallow limitations of the SF aspirations. FG, through their diplomatic skills and links to other major European political parties were able to take centre stage and lead and drive the negotiations. Don’t think Syriza have the same influence so yeah, we will just have to engage in supplication.

Back to Brexit another notion the vast majority of voters didnt give a shîte about but FG believed super important to the electorate

KWAG2019 · 10-02-2020 9:26pm

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious. And the cynicism of the ruling parties in doing so. The people have shown repeatedly that they have moved on from this and the only ones looking back to it are those doing so in an exploitative and politicised manner.

There are an awful lot of disappointed FFGers out there but you have only yourselves to blame for this result. All FFG could offer was "there is no alternative". People are crying out for such. And let's be plain: SF should know they are on notice to deliver solutions not excuses. Had FG done that with housing rather than enabling a parasitical landlord class they would have won elections for 20 years. Too much self regard, too much unionism, too much dismissiveness, too much West Brit nonsense, too much incompetence.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2020 9:27pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never suggested that was the argument. It wasn't by the way. Saying all sides had issues was 'callous' seemingly.

If the IRA were terrorists it stands so were the BA, the only difference was a government condoned and covered up for the BA and the IRA were operating under a faux democratic system they didn't agree with.

Yes both groups committed violence but Fact the IRA killed more Catholics than the British army. Clap clap for the big bully

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 9:27pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I don't approve of the thugs SF still hang with. Thugs who would beat a young man to death.
But we have thugs in suits who wrecked a nation . Who caused hundred's of suicides. Mass emmigration. Marriages wrecked. Way beyond any damage the IRA did
Let's not forget that both the DUP and the conservative party in the Uk supported their own armed miltia in the UDA

We also have people in government who resurrected the country from it's knees, full employment and got the brexit deal done.
Imagine how much marriages were saved, emigration stopped, suicides prevented?

All without a single bullet being fired or murder covered up.

I will say again no MURDER covered up.

FrancieBrady · 10-02-2020 9:28pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That just shows the shallow limitations of the SF aspirations. FG, through their diplomatic skills and links to other major European political parties were able to take centre stage and lead and drive the negotiations. Don’t think Syriza have the same influence so yeah, we will just have to engage in supplication.

We've been over this before. FG were schooled in how to approach the Brexit negs by SF. You know this blanch. Look up the Dáil debates and Enda ruling out special status for the north in 2016.

Other than that I have every faith in their ability to negotiate a position for us.

jam_mac_jam · 10-02-2020 9:28pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious. And the cynicism of the ruling parties in doing so. The people have shown repeatedly that they have moved on from this and the only ones looking back to it are those doing so in an exploitative and politicised manner.

There are an awful lot of disappointed FFGers out there but you have only yourselves to blame for this result. All FFG could offer was "there is no alternative". People are crying out for such. And let's be plain: SF should know they are on notice to deliver solutions not excuses. Had FG done that with housing rather than enabling a parasitical landlord class they would have won elections for 20 years. Too much self regard, too much unionism, too much dismissiveness, too much West Brit nonsense, too much incompetence.

They are condemning themselves with their up the ra. You can't say its in the past and say up the ra.

The idea that you are a west brit if you don't agree with violence is another little sick phrase that you use.

There are plenty of Republicans that didn't resort to violence.

You are not less Irish then SF

Bobtheman · 10-02-2020 9:29pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious. And the cynicism of the ruling parties in doing so. The people have shown repeatedly that they have moved on from this and the only ones looking back to it are those doing so in an exploitative and politicised manner.

There are an awful lot of disappointed FFGers out there but you have only yourselves to blame for this result. All FFG could offer was "there is no alternative". People are crying out for such. And let's be plain: SF should know they are on notice to deliver solutions not excuses. Had FG done that with housing rather than enabling a parasitical landlord class they would have won elections for 20 years. Too much self regard, too much unionism, too much dismissiveness, too much West Brit nonsense, too much incompetence.

So the Quinn death happened 23 years ago ? I thought it was 2007. I also hear that about 30 punishment shootings occur in the north carried out by the IRA . Am I travelling through time??!

Gynoid · 10-02-2020 9:30pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never suggested that was the argument. It wasn't by the way. Saying all sides had issues was 'callous' seemingly.

If the IRA were terrorists it stands so were the BA, the only difference was a government condoned and covered up for the BA and the IRA were operating under a faux democratic system they didn't agree with.

I have only one thing to say to you. Up the Ra.

KWAG2019 · 10-02-2020 9:31pm

Gynoid wrote: »

The callousness of this post is worth preserving in quote..."all sides have issues". This is moral relativism taken to a cult like level.
If you can just tell me what comparable issues other sides have, given that 10 men beat a 21 year old lad with nails in sticks for over half an hour and broke all his bones before he died and Sinn Fein choked for a very long time before they could spit out any kind if a feeble condemnation.
Anything comparable, Matt??

All sides do have issues. The savagery of that incident is very obvious; the hidden suicides of the crash less so, the mass emigration less so, the ill health that people worked themselves into to keep things functioning less so. There is no shortage of savagery from the loyalists, the Free State, the Anti Treaty side, the RUC, the British army and on and on. Those are facts.

Bobtheman · 10-02-2020 9:31pm

I still want to see SF in power but eventually they will have to break with the hard men. You can't accept the PSNI and then shoot young men in the legs.

The Rape of Lucretia · 10-02-2020 9:31pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious.

The utter absurdity of thinking time absolves guilt. The running of convicted murders and terrorists as candidates representing the party, is still very much SF today. Its difficult to think of a more evil political party active in the world today. They eyes of the world gaze in amazement at so amoral a country.

Gringo180 · 10-02-2020 9:34pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The utter absurdity of thinking time absolves guilt..

Yes those god damn Germans today. Nazi Bästarďs

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 9:34pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious. And the cynicism of the ruling parties in doing so. The people have shown repeatedly that they have moved on from this and the only ones looking back to it are those doing so in an exploitative and politicised manner.

There are an awful lot of disappointed FFGers out there but you have only yourselves to blame for this result. All FFG could offer was "there is no alternative". People are crying out for such. And let's be plain: SF should know they are on notice to deliver solutions not excuses. Had FG done that with housing rather than enabling a parasitical landlord class they would have won elections for 20 years. Too much self regard, too much unionism, too much dismissiveness, too much West Brit nonsense, too much incompetence.

Three parties said they would not go into government with SF they have 50% of the seats Labour FF FG.
You seem to the lack the intelligence to understand the great work FG have done getting the country back on track employment/brexit/infrastructure luas roads etc. Granted it is not perfect but step by step they were getting there.

You seem to have fallen for the SF myth that 'FFG' are the cause of all ills.

Also you have fallen for they PBP myth that all landlords are greedy/evil. The vast majority only own one property.

Pamela Landy · 10-02-2020 9:35pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The utter absurdity of thinking time absolves guilt. The running of convicted murders and terrorists as candidates representing the party, is still very much SF today. Its difficult to think of a more evil political party active in the world today. They eyes of the world gaze in amazement at so amoral a country.

Somehow I doubt that... Relax.

Conall Cernach · 10-02-2020 9:35pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

So the Quinn death happened 23 years ago ? I thought it was 2007. I also hear that about 30 punishment shootings occur in the north carried out by the IRA . Am I travelling through time??!

That would be a different IRA not the PIRA ,there are at least 3 other different factions claiming the title. They regularly condemn all such attacks.

The Rape of Lucretia · 10-02-2020 9:35pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

Yes those god damn Germans today. Nazi Bästarďs

Yes. Any of them who were Nazis are. Those who werent arent.
Those who were IRA murderers are still IRA murderers.

James Brown · 10-02-2020 9:36pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

Yes both groups committed violence but Fact the IRA killed more Catholics than the British army. Clap clap for the big bully

Completely irrelevant to the point IMO.

Bobtheman wrote: »

So the Quinn death happened 23 years ago ? I thought it was 2007. I also hear that about 30 punishment shootings occur in the north carried out by the IRA . Am I travelling through time??!

Nothing to do with SF or the IRA AFAIK. Disgrace how that woman was used.
You might be.

Gynoid wrote: »

I have only one thing to say to you. Up the Ra.

I'm against violence. However as a mature adult I do try see issues from all sides. Pearl clutching and seeing things as only black and white is never going to let us progress.

blanch152 · 10-02-2020 9:36pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We've been over this before. FG were schooled in how to approach the Brexit negs by SF. You know this blanch. Look up the Dáil debates and Enda ruling out special status for the north in 2016.

Other than that I have every faith in their ability to negotiate a position for us.

Yeah, we have been through this before, SF immediately opted for a self-serving option, not the best outcome for Ireland. FG tried and failed to get a much better outcome - Britain staying in the CU and SM. It remains to be seen whether the option favoured by SF is anything better than disastrous.

Gringo180 · 10-02-2020 9:37pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes. Any of them who were Nazis are. Those who werent arent.
Those who were IRA murderers are still IRA murderers.

Any Sinn Fein elected TDs in this G.E that are murderers?

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 9:38pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I still want to see SF in power but eventually they will have to break with the hard men. You can't accept the PSNI and then shoot young men in the legs.

Yep they just can't clean the nasty element out - major problem for them because they would lose thier base in NI.

If SF were a clean party they could get 60/70 seats imo.

I would vote for them then. But I have seen no evidence of a clean up operation and adherence to the rule of law - not just when it suits, but all the time.

Foxtrol · 10-02-2020 9:38pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You'll have to run the bolded bit by me again...makes no sense as a point.

I'm not sure what you're struggling with, your hypocrisy is pretty clear.

In one post you get outraged that I gave FG credit for their part in negotiating Brexit while a few posts earlier you wanted credit to be passed on to Mary Lou and her new band of misfits in the republic for historical negotiations in the north

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no party more seasoned in difficult negotiations than SF.

As to the bit that I can understand...the government will need negotiators in the EU, to negotiate our position within the 27. When that is understood by the trade deal negotiators they will decide whether to make it a part of their demands when talking to the UK.

At no point will we be dealing with the UK in those trade talks. It would be good if you could inform yourself on these things before wading in.

And we need to negotiate with the 27 on large elements of the deal.

Even without direct negotiations, there will be meetings with Britain (like the ones between Leo and Boris/May) and also negotiations through media. I'm sure the likes of members of the government party shouting 'up the ra' will make things go much more smoothly.

10-02-2020 9:39pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The utter absurdity of condemning SF for a conflict that ended 23 years ago is more and more obvious. And the cynicism of the ruling parties in doing so. The people have shown repeatedly that they have moved on from this and the only ones looking back to it are those doing so in an exploitative and politicised manner.

so what are elected Sinn Fein members doing singing 'up the Ra' on their election celebrations?

blanch152 · 10-02-2020 9:40pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Completely irrelevant to the point IMO.

Nothing to do with SF or the IRA AFAIK. Disgrace how that woman was used.
You might be.

I'm against violence. However as a mature adult I do try see issues from all sides. Pearl clutching and seeing things as only black and white is never going to let us progress.

If you are against violence, then you have to be against anyone celebrating violence. Whether it is SF thugs singing “up the ra” or British Army vets counting their kills, they should be condemned.

So unless you are a blatant hypocrite, I expect you to agree that Cullinane should apologise.

boring accountant · 10-02-2020 9:40pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think it's more that an increasing share of voters just don't care enough about the IRA connection rather than not believing it's real.

If this is what SF believe they're in for a rude awakening.

People were willing to lend them their votes because they thought they had put that all behind them. If they interpret this victory as a licence to promote the IRA they're going to run into trouble.

This isn't Northern Ireland. No Willie ever called me Tadhg. People who voted SF for the first time probably don't want our government promoting terrorists in our name.

pjohnson · 10-02-2020 9:41pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Three parties said they would not go into government with SF they have 50% of the seats Labour FF FG.
You seem to the lack the intelligence to understand the great work FG have done getting the country back on track employment/brexit/infrastructure luas roads etc. Granted it is not perfect but step by step they were getting there.

You seem to have fallen for the SF myth that 'FFG' are the cause of all ills.

Also you have fallen for they PBP myth that all landlords are greedy/evil. The vast majority only own one property.

Back to how important Brexit was even tho the electorate didnt give it a shíte.

What have we come to

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