Company retracting car parking facilities

La Haine · 13-11-2019 1:47pm #1

Hi all,

I have been working with the same company, in Dublin City, for nearly 9 years now.

The company always provided car parking facilities with no expense paid on my part.

During this 9 years we have moved premises once within the city and, again, were given free car parking.

We are now moving again; much further out (but still in city centre), and there will be no car park facilities supplied by the company this time.

There is nothing in my contract about being entitled to a car park spot at the companies expense.

Don't suppose, after 8 years of having this perk, that I'd be entitled to some form of compensation or the like? Compensation is the wrong word I suppose, but should the company be providing some form of alternative where I won't be out of pocket after the move? Like – if you have something for long enough, it 'becomes' part of your package like?

I'm clutching at straws here, I know.

Thanks!
La Haine

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 1:49pm

Yea the government will provide compensation. 50% off buses, trains & darts on the travel saver program.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 2:10pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Yea the government will provide compensation. 50% off buses, trains & darts on the travel saver program.

Yup, fully aware of the government initiatives. Thank you for your service.

However, I'm asking after the possibility of my companies obligations (if any) before I approach HR.

Again "I'm clutching at straws here, I know." :P

charlietheminxx · 13-11-2019 2:55pm

Do you have to drive for work?

K.Flyer · 13-11-2019 3:01pm

La Haine wrote: »

Yup, fully aware of the government initiatives. Thank you for your service.

However, I'm asking after the possibility of my companies obligations (if any) before I approach HR.

Again "I'm clutching at straws here, I know." :P

If it's not part of your contract terms to provide parking facilities I don't see how you could be entitled to anything or that there is any onus on them to continue providing parking facilities.

reg114 · 13-11-2019 4:08pm

If its not part of your contract then its very unlikely. You have been very lucky to have had free parking for so long. Have you considered public transport or cycling, it could be a blessing in disguise.

godtabh · 13-11-2019 4:12pm

did you pay benefit in kind for this perk?

sassyj · 13-11-2019 4:12pm

Could possibly be considered an implied contract term after 9 years, (custom and practice). Has any consultation been done with staff, I would request that as a first approach.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:18pm

Thanks for the reply's guys.

Very fortunate to have the option to drive-in every day as it suited my out-of-office commitments to have the car.
9 years is a long time to start taking something for granted!

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 4:20pm

sassyj wrote: »

Could possibly be considered an implied contract term after 9 years, (custom and practice). Has any consultation been done with staff, I would request that as a first approach.

You see this is why we can't have nice things. People get a cushy perk for a while because their employers were good enough to do so while not being obliged to & then the employer gets it thrown back in their faces because they gave staff a nice thing for too long.

As someone who employs people, this attitude drives me absolutely insane.

reg114 · 13-11-2019 4:23pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You see this is why we can't have nice things. People get a cushy perk for a while because their employers were good enough to do so while not being obliged to & then the employer gets it thrown back in their faces because they gave staff a nice thing for too long.

As someone who employs people, this attitude drives me absolutely insane.

Yup couldnt agree more , you had a luxury of free parking , its now gone, end of story, find an alternative way to get to work.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:25pm

sassyj wrote: »

Could possibly be considered an implied contract term after 9 years, (custom and practice). Has any consultation been done with staff, I would request that as a first approach.

Ah! This could be worth having a look into - thank you!

Cordell · 13-11-2019 4:25pm

Or find alternative work, maybe this is what they're after, less of the kind that drives to work, more of the kind that cycles

Did they actually provide car parking, or was it just there for the taking, as in a building with its own carpark?

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:30pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You see this is why we can't have nice things. People get a cushy perk for a while because their employers were good enough to do so while not being obliged to & then the employer gets it thrown back in their faces because they gave staff a nice thing for too long.

As someone who employs people, this attitude drives me absolutely insane.

So you give your staff a 'perk' (freely, willingly and without condition) and then withdraw it after nearly a decade, even though your business is quite successful – you think none of your staff would react? That they'd, perhaps, thank you, for what time they DID have the perk for?

Bless!

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:31pm

reg114 wrote: »

Yup couldnt agree more , you had a luxury of free parking , its now gone, end of story, find an alternative way to get to work.

Solid advice. Thank you for your service.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:32pm

godtabh wrote: »

did you pay benefit in kind for this perk?

Nope. Non-designated.

daheff · 13-11-2019 4:34pm

la Haine, I would hazard a guess that a lot of your compensation /benefits are not in your contract. I'd imagine in 9 years that a lot has changed since you signed the contract. As you had a parking space for 9 years, my guess is that the parking would be a deemed benefit, just like any additional work/duties you've taken on since you started.

Work in practice I think its called.

godtabh wrote: »

did you pay benefit in kind for this perk?

does anybody?

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:38pm

daheff wrote: »

la Haine, I would hazard a guess that a lot of your compensation /benefits are not in your contract. I'd imagine in 9 years that a lot has changed since you signed the contract. As you had a parking space for 9 years, my guess is that the parking would be a deemed benefit, just like any additional work/duties you've taken on since you started.

Work in practice I think its called.

does anybody?

Thank you!

I'll research that before approaching work!

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 4:42pm

daheff wrote: »

la Haine, I would hazard a guess that a lot of your compensation /benefits are not in your contract. I'd imagine in 9 years that a lot has changed since you signed the contract. As you had a parking space for 9 years, my guess is that the parking would be a deemed benefit, just like any additional work/duties you've taken on since you started.

Work in practice I think its called.

I think you're thinking of work practice, which is not binding - however it's more to do with how people work, not where people dump their cars.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:46pm

LINK

Seems there's no BIK on company car parking as it happens.

Spook_ie · 13-11-2019 4:48pm

La Haine wrote: »

Hi all,

I have been working with the same company, in Dublin City, for nearly 9 years now.

The company always provided car parking facilities with no expense paid on my part.

During this 9 years we have moved premises once within the city and, again, were given free car parking.

We are now moving again; much further out (but still in city centre), and there will be no car park facilities supplied by the company this time.

There is nothing in my contract about being entitled to a car park spot at the companies expense.

Don't suppose, after 8 years of having this perk, that I'd be entitled to some form of compensation or the like? Compensation is the wrong word I suppose, but should the company be providing some form of alternative where I won't be out of pocket after the move? Like – if you have something for long enough, it 'becomes' part of your package like?

I'm clutching at straws here, I know.

Thanks!
La Haine

I'd be more worried about the taxman looking for BIK on the "free" parking

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 4:48pm

La Haine wrote: »

So you give your staff a 'perk' (freely, willingly and without condition) and then withdraw it after nearly a decade, even though your business is quite successful – you think none of your staff would react? That they'd, perhaps, thank you, for what time they DID have the perk for?

Bless!

Now sweetie, we're mostly grown ups here. If you had fruit in the office for 9 years & they removed that, would you go on boards to have a whinge?

In previous jobs I've had pay cuts, perks withdrawn & signed new agreements to accept that.

You're the type of person who ruins everything for everyone else because from now on the company will have to be prescriptive & will not give any extras or you'll want to go to mediation over it. Just grow up & cop on, you had a non-contractual benefit & the show is over.

If you were employable & it was that big an issue you'd go & get another job, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

L1011 · 13-11-2019 4:49pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the taxman looking for BIK on the "free" parking

There is currently no basis for BIK on parking spaces.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:52pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'd be more worried about the taxman looking for BIK on the "free" parking

Taxman has no interest.

Link

13-11-2019 4:53pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Now sweetie, we're mostly grown ups here.

I can spot the exception. :rolleyes:

Spook_ie · 13-11-2019 4:59pm

La Haine wrote: »

LINK

Seems there's no BIK on company car parking as it happens.

L1011 wrote: »

There is currently no basis for BIK on parking spaces.

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 4:59pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Now sweetie, we're mostly grown ups here. If you had fruit in the office for 9 years & they removed that, would you go on boards to have a whinge?

In previous jobs I've had pay cuts, perks withdrawn & signed new agreements to accept that.

You're the type of person who ruins everything for everyone else because from now on the company will have to be prescriptive & will not give any extras or you'll want to go to mediation over it. Just grow up & cop on, you had a non-contractual benefit & the show is over.

If you were employable & it was that big an issue you'd go & get another job, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

Sweetie.

Congratulations on getting as far as you have. I salute you.
However, try and now narrow your focus: Would your our own employees <cough> thank you for what time they had with a perk you provided (freely and willingly) for 9 years when you withdraw it?

paulpd · 13-11-2019 5:00pm

My OH had parking for 15yrs in the public sector. Building renovated and extended and after that only senior management got a space as the car park was used up in the re-building.

If there was a case for parking to be supplied going forward like some people suggest then surely the unions would have been on top it?? The OH said some people contacted the union and the union said there was no case. It was never in a contract.

Just rent a space nearby if you need to drive.

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:04pm

La Haine wrote: »

Sweetie.

Congratulations on getting as far as you have. I salute you.
However, try and now narrow your focus: Would your our own employees <cough> thank you for what time they had with a perk you provided (freely and willingly) for 9 years when you withdraw it?

Not in business 9 years, however I'd like to think they'd understand that business needs come before their own. They entered into a contract prior to starting work & it didn't include parking, so if they got it, that's great, but it's not something that had been promised. Obviously they would prefer we had parking etc. but if we're moving office in town, options are limited. If someone raised a major issue about it and needed official consultation, I know who I'd be planning on letting go if we ever had to restructure or hit hard times.

It would be a huge highlight to me that someone is not a team player & is purely out for what they can personally get. i.e. their values are not aligned with values of the business (which are Growth of profits & professional development of staff)

13-11-2019 5:08pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

https://jervis.ie/parking/ ...........5 day pass only €42
For 46 weeks (20 days annual leave and the 10 public holidays) that'd be €1932 ...... way less then the €5760 you mention.

Not that it matters though

Do you reckon the taxman is missing a trick on subsidised canteens, complimentary tea & coffee etc etc ?

neris · 13-11-2019 5:10pm

La Haine wrote: »

Taxman has no interest.

Link

they were talking about going after it a few years ago during recession as a BIK but they saw sense and knocked the idea

godtabh · 13-11-2019 5:14pm

daheff wrote: »

does anybody?

I was undeR the impression you had to if you had an assigned space.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:14pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You see this is why we can't have nice things. People get a cushy perk for a while because their employers were good enough to do so while not being obliged to & then the employer gets it thrown back in their faces because they gave staff a nice thing for too long.

As someone who employs people, this attitude drives me absolutely insane.

Not really, if employer is providing parking that can be taken away he/she needs for this to be known from day one in a contract etc. Otherwise like ALL other terms that are ongoing for significant time can be considered implied terms. Company not doing their job right. Additionally if there was no consultation with employees that would be affected then company not doing their job right - that two for two.

I'm a manager in my company so I wouldn't always see it from the employees point of view, but I would believe the company is being very short sighted here and lining themselves up for employee discontent and possible actions.

Always consult with employees for any change that is possibly considered detrimental to current employee terms.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:17pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Now sweetie, we're mostly grown ups here. If you had fruit in the office for 9 years & they removed that, would you go on boards to have a whinge?

In previous jobs I've had pay cuts, perks withdrawn & signed new agreements to accept that.

You're the type of person who ruins everything for everyone else because from now on the company will have to be prescriptive & will not give any extras or you'll want to go to mediation over it. Just grow up & cop on, you had a non-contractual benefit & the show is over.

If you were employable & it was that big an issue you'd go & get another job, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

You've had paycuts and you signed to accept them, that does not mean others can or need to. Employers need to be better these days in what they will be held to account for. I'm an employee but come from a self employed family background and I see both sides of the coin.

henryd65 · 13-11-2019 5:17pm

Re the bik on car parking, if I recall correctly, Charlie McCreevy, the former Finance Minister announced a bik on such perks in a budget, c. 2000/2001.

Of course, by the time the Finance Act came around that year, the matter was dropped. I reckon Charlie may have got some pushback from the public sector.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:20pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Not in business 9 years, however I'd like to think they'd understand that business needs come before their own. They entered into a contract prior to starting work & it didn't include parking, so if they got it, that's great, but it's not something that had been promised. Obviously they would prefer we had parking etc. but if we're moving office in town, options are limited. If someone raised a major issue about it and needed official consultation, I know who I'd be planning on letting go if we ever had to restructure or hit hard times.

It would be a huge highlight to me that someone is not a team player & is purely out for what they can personally get. i.e. their values are not aligned with values of the business (which are Growth of profits & professional development of staff)

Ah. You're relatively inexperienced as a leader and employer then.

For you to think an employee would put YOUR companies growth and profit over what 'they can personally get' is quite naive.

Pre 1916 type of ****.

Have a good evening sir.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:21pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

There is no bik if no direct payment is made, eg employer has a carpark. If the employer was paying a garage for individual car spaces then the payment could be considered bik.

Also inner city parking could be negotiated to €3,550 per year not €5,760! why on earth would you pay side of road county council rates.

Its also to the companies benefit as some commuters would not work for said company if the space was not available.

tomwaits48 · 13-11-2019 5:22pm

I'd build the cost of losing the parking into my next pay review.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:22pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Not really, if employer is providing parking that can be taken away he/she needs for this to be known from day one in a contract etc. Otherwise like ALL other terms that are ongoing for significant time can be considered implied terms. Company not doing their job right. Additionally if there was no consultation with employees that would be affected then company not doing their job right - that two for two.

I'm a manager in my company so I wouldn't always see it from the employees point of view, but I would believe the company is being very short sighted here and lining themselves up for employee discontent and possible actions.

Always consult with employees for any change that is possibly considered detrimental to current employee terms.

Thank you! This is exactly the type of reply I was looking for.

It wasn't my intention to come across as 'privileged'. Fortunate, yes, but not privileged.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:23pm

tomwaits48 wrote: »

I'd build the cost of losing the parking into my next pay review.

Definitely with discussing. Thank you!

L1011 · 13-11-2019 5:25pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Fair enough, can't help feeling the taxman missed out on that one.

How much is city center parking worth €3 an hour 8 hours a day, €24 by 5 days
€120 by 48 weeks €5760 a year, that's some benefit to get gratis.

You will never be paying €120 a week anywhere in the city if a regular/full time user. I can (and generally don't, I take the train) get parking next to my office in D1 for €1360 a year (30 for an 8 day 'week', I believe a computer system glitch they have decided to embrace)

Multiplying the marginal price of buying one to get a bulk value is what the Drugs Squad do :pac:

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:25pm

La Haine wrote: »

Ah. You're relatively inexperienced as a leader and employer then.

For you to think an employee would put YOUR companies growth and profit over what 'they can personally get' is quite naive.

Pre 1916 type of ****.

Have a good evening sir.

Their pay package include shares so eh... yea their values are aligned.
Inexperienced as a business owner yep, leader or employer (in the sense of managing staff) nope.

Have a good evening - hope you manage to land a job where you can park at your desk.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:30pm

La Haine wrote: »

Sweetie.

Congratulations on getting as far as you have. I salute you.
However, try and now narrow your focus: Would your our own employees <cough> thank you for what time they had with a perk you provided (freely and willingly) for 9 years when you withdraw it?

Why are so stuck on the 9 years. The time you have worked for the company is completely irrelevant. You were getting a free car space that you were not contracted to get. It was a really helpful and nice benefit. You don't have a leg to stand on. The company have done nothing wrong with move to an alternative location.

This is a personal problem you have with a perk that you were never really entitled to in the first place. I just don't get your attitude.

If it were me and I was told that a perk I was getting was being removed, I would accept it and move on.

If you have such a problem with company moving and you losing a car space of all things, then maybe leave the company and find somewhere where you will get a free car space.

You remind me of a few people who have come and gone from the company I work for. They ruined alot of the perks that we had by taking the p*ss.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:31pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Not in business 9 years, however I'd like to think they'd understand that business needs come before their own. They entered into a contract prior to starting work & it didn't include parking, so if they got it, that's great, but it's not something that had been promised. Obviously they would prefer we had parking etc. but if we're moving office in town, options are limited. If someone raised a major issue about it and needed official consultation, I know who I'd be planning on letting go if we ever had to restructure or hit hard times.

It would be a huge highlight to me that someone is not a team player & is purely out for what they can personally get. i.e. their values are not aligned with values of the business (which are Growth of profits & professional development of staff)

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

Larbre34 · 13-11-2019 5:33pm

La Haine wrote: »

Definitely with discussing. Thank you!

€6k before tax would be a fair valuation of that.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:34pm

La Haine wrote: »

Thank you! This is exactly the type of reply I was looking for.

It wasn't my intention to come across as 'privileged'. Fortunate, yes, but not privileged.

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:37pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

While I agree that the comment was not in good taste, I can't help but feel alot of businesses would be thinking along the same lines.

kennethsmyth · 13-11-2019 5:38pm

ZiabR wrote: »

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

Significant time (9 years) can create an implied term and when it comes down to it if there is a conflict on this the WRC / labour court will make the decision as to whether it is part of the employees package or not. Not me or you.

Mickiemcfist · 13-11-2019 5:42pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Well done on showing you have also no idea of how a redundancy case would come about due to unfair selection practices, you've already marked cards with that comment.

Employees work for you, they are not a loyal lapdog, they are humans and human nature dictates that yes you can earn loyalty but not command it.

Oh no, Ken from the internet has marked my cards :rolleyes:
I'm well aware of correct selection practices for redundancy. I would also happily pay unfair dismissal to get rid of toxic staff, it's at worst 104 weeks, however that's only if the employee hasn't been reemployed for 104 weeks, which is unlikely in Ireland.
However I hire well (so far anyway) so it's never been necessary.

ZiabR · 13-11-2019 5:45pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Significant time (9 years) can create an implied term and when it comes down to it if there is a conflict on this the WRC / labour court will make the decision as to whether it is part of the employees package or not. Not me or you.

Please... you are bringing up the WRC and the Labour Court over a car space? A car space that the employer was not obliged to provide in the first place. This is exactly what is wrong with half of the work force in this country.

La Haine · 13-11-2019 5:45pm

ZiabR wrote: »

Seems the truth of your OP was to only get the answers you wanted to hear...
From a legal point of view, the contract you signed had no mention of a free car space, so you don't have a leg to stand on. I really don't understand how you cannot see that.

Hi,

There is no right or wrong answer.

Looking for insights, opinions and general info my friend. I certainly wouldn’t be going back to HR quoting just Boardsies opinions! ðŸ€—

Thanks for contributing all the same.

Company retracting car parking facilities

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