Selling a 191 privately?

younggalway · 27-10-2019 3:08pm #1

So I bought my Leon on PCP earlier this year however I'm now planning a move to Oz in 2020 so unfortunately it has to go.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/191-seat-leon-fr-1-5-tsi/23333862

I have put it up on DoneDeal and Carzone (awaiting approval apparently?) and was looking for some feedback on the ad. I have priced it slightly under dealer prices but don't want to go too low as you essentially get all the comeback as it still has warranty until 2022.

I'm not in a mad rush to sell so I might test it for a few weeks then try again early next year. Anyone know of anywhere else I might be able to target a potential buyer?

All advice welcome, I appreciate selling a 191 won't be easy with cheap finance available on PCP for a new car and the issue of selling private at this price point but hoping there might be a buyer out there for it.

colm_mcm · 27-10-2019 3:14pm

The thing to keep in mind, is that while the car is on warranty, the reason people buy from dealers is the comeback they have for issues outside of warranty that the car or seller may have (undisclosed damage, finance owing etc). Buyers also prefer to deal with a business and trust them more. There is also the fact that SEAT dealers will do used cars on PCP, and will discount the hell out of a new Leon now just to move them

All that considered, you need to be more than slightly cheaper than a dealer.

The ad itself is great. If I was being picky, I’d leave out the picture of the manuals, and not have the front seats reclined back so far in the pictures.

bazz26 · 27-10-2019 3:21pm

You need to review your pricing. Here is a brand new one from a dealer for 20k straight deal:

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2194136&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D78%26o%5B%5D%3D673%26f%3D1%26yn%3D2019%26yx%3D2019%26g%3D0

Ask yourself why would someone pay you 1k more, with no comeback. Dealer will offer finance facilities and take a trade in too. Your car needs to be way cheaper to tempt a buyer away from buying from a dealer.

terrydel · 27-10-2019 3:23pm

Not an expert, but is there any chance you could get a friend or family member who's looking for a car to take over the payments? Bung them a few quid as a thank you.

younggalway · 27-10-2019 3:28pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

The thing to keep in mind, is that while the car is on warranty, the reason people buy from dealers is the comeback they have for issues outside of warranty that the car or seller may have (undisclosed damage, finance owing etc). Buyers also prefer to deal with a business and trust them more. There is also the fact that SEAT dealers will do used cars on PCP, and will discount the hell out of a new Leon now just to move them

All that considered, you need to be more than slightly cheaper than a dealer.

The ad itself is great. If I was being picky, I’d leave out the picture of the manuals, and not have the front seats reclined back so far in the pictures.

Cheers colm, fair enough point. I suppose if anyone is in the market for one they could carry out the relevant checks and ultimately save themself 2k rather than going to the main dealer. I know I'll be targeting a narrow enough market with it but I'll hold out for a few weeks and see how I get on. I'll be clearing the outstanding finance before I sell so I should be able to show them the receipt from VW bank if that offers peace of mind.

Also I've removed that picture, cheers for the input.

bazz26 · 27-10-2019 3:36pm

terrydel wrote: »

Not an expert, but is there any chance you could get a friend or family member who's looking for a car to take over the payments? Bung them a few quid as a thank you.

A recipe for disaster. The car is still the property of the finance company until the last payment is made, getting someone else to take over payments would be classed as fraudulent no matter how good the intention and could open the OP to all sorts of trouble. What happens if the family member or friend misses a payment or cannot afford to pay anymore down the road, OP's credit rating is effected and if he decides to come home and apply for a mortgage he is snookered.

younggalway · 27-10-2019 3:37pm

bazz26 wrote: »

You need to review your pricing. Here is a brand new one from a dealer for 20k straight deal:

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2194136&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D78%26o%5B%5D%3D673%26f%3D1%26yn%3D2019%26yx%3D2019%26g%3D0

Ask yourself why would someone pay you 1k more, with no comeback. Dealer will offer finance facilities and take a trade in too. Your car needs to be way cheaper to tempt a buyer away from buying from a dealer.

Well thats a kick in the teeth, I hadn't even looked on CarsIreland.

To be honest if I go much under 20k I'll be making a loss so I might just test the ad for a few weeks then hold on to it if it's not moving. As mentioned above I could look a getting someone to take over the payments but that could be a struggle in itself but at least its an option

In the meantime I'm gonna hope that I'm not the only one that doesn't look at CarsIreland :rolleyes:

Car99 · 27-10-2019 3:38pm

Enquire how much it will cost you to terminate the PCP using the half rule in the month you go to OZ . Depending on your terms and PCP deal it might be your best option and you have use of the car until you head away.

sdanseo · 27-10-2019 3:38pm

bazz26 wrote: »

A recipe for disaster. The car is still the property of the finance company until the last payment is made, getting someone else to take over payments would be classed as fraudulent no matter how good the intention and could open the OP to all sorts of trouble. What happens if the family member or friend misses a payment or cannot afford to pay anymore down the road, OP's credit rating is effected and if he decides to come home and apply for a mortgage he is snookered.

Not if it's done with the permission of the finance company. Any other solution results in the OP paying off a lump sum and they lose 2 years of interest at least, so they might be happy to sign off on it.

bazz26 · 27-10-2019 3:41pm

Do you honestly think a finance company is going to agree to someone else repaying a loan on behalf of the OP? The contract is between the OP and finance company. The only way they will agree to someone else paying is if the OP pays it off first and then the other person takes out a new finance deal of their own. Finance companies don't do proxy payments.

Mooooo · 27-10-2019 3:57pm

younggalway wrote: »

Well thats a kick in the teeth, I hadn't even looked on CarsIreland.

To be honest if I go much under 20k I'll be making a loss so I might just test the ad for a few weeks then hold on to it if it's not moving. As mentioned above I could look a getting someone to take over the payments but that could be a struggle in itself but at least its an option

In the meantime I'm gonna hope that I'm not the only one that doesn't look at CarsIreland :rolleyes:

Realistically selling a car that new is gonna make a loss first 12 months is prob the highest depreciating period

younggalway · 27-10-2019 3:59pm

If that's not an option I'll probably just look at holding onto it and hopefully selling it just before I go, perhaps I can break even on it but if not I'll just take it as a life lesson.

Obviously this wasn't the plan when I got it, I had intended to keep it for the 3 years but I can't get over the depreciation on these. Also it seems mad that a dealer can discount a car by 8k to sell it and still be making money? I always thought the margins at this price range wouldn't be great in new cars but I guess I'm in the wrong business.

micks_address · 27-10-2019 4:00pm

Yeah my experience with pcp is that you will make a loss or barely break even on your payment balance for first two years. im testing the waters around 2.5 years and even then I'm not left with much equity...

elperello · 27-10-2019 4:04pm

The dealer is not taking the hit.
That discount is underwritten by distributor/manufacturer.
It is a pretty good discount by the way but that butters no parsnips for the OP who is badly caught out.

Truckermal · 27-10-2019 4:06pm

I think your better off approaching the dealer you purchased it from and explaining your story, it's going to be impossible to sell a 191 privately because if you advertise it priced low people will think their is something wrong plus your are not entitled to sell it as it's not your property.

green123 · 27-10-2019 4:13pm

younggalway wrote: »

Well thats a kick in the teeth, I hadn't even looked on CarsIreland.

To be honest if I go much under 20k I'll be making a loss

Were you really expecting to get away from this breaking even or making a profit?

You should be happy and you will be lucky if you can get out making a 2 or 3k loss

younggalway · 27-10-2019 4:17pm

Truckermal wrote: »

I think your better off approaching the dealer you purchased it from and explaining your story, it's going to be impossible to sell a 191 privately because if you advertise it priced low people will think their is something wrong plus your are not entitled to sell it as it's not your property.

I was at the dealer for servicing this week, I didn't mention it directly but he said they had a few for sale also and they seemed to be there a while.

In relation to it being my property, I will be settling the balance this week so it would be mine to sell

younggalway · 27-10-2019 4:22pm

green123 wrote: »

Were you really expecting to get away from this breaking even or making a profit?

You should happy and you will be lucky if you can get out making a 2 or 3k loss

I should be happy that a car listed at 28k in March in now worth 18k? I expected heavy depreciation naturally but for the car to lose 35% of its value in 7 months well then no I can't say its what I would expect. As I mentioned, I had intended to keep the car for the length of the PCP so this wasn't anticipated either way.

Ultimately it looks like I will be taking a hit on it regardless now but can't do much at this point.

micks_address · 27-10-2019 4:36pm

younggalway wrote: »

I should be happy that a car listed at 28k in March in now worth 18k? I expected heavy depreciation naturally but for the car to lose 35% of its value in 7 months well then no I can't say its what I would expect. As I mentioned, I had intended to keep the car for the length of the PCP so this wasn't anticipated either way.

Ultimately it looks like I will be taking a hit on it regardless now but can't do much at this point.

Yes it sucks... But that list price if I go into buy one without a trade I'll probably get for 27, your talking at least 4k depreciation each year.. if it was a golf you'd probably do better. I don't like pcp for this exact reason. Your basically stuck with car for three years if you want to maximise equity at the end of the deal. I've also realised that you loose heavily on extras you put into the car so kinda write that value off before you start.. like dsg cost me extra 2.5k on my car and I've been offered nothing above the cost of a manual on any trade in deal..

terrydel · 27-10-2019 4:37pm

sdanseo wrote: »

Not if it's done with the permission of the finance company. Any other solution results in the OP paying off a lump sum and they lose 2 years of interest at least, so they might be happy to sign off on it.

Yeah, I was asking with that in mind. Obviously it would need to be with their full consent and approval.

green123 · 27-10-2019 4:58pm

The main dealer is advertising a new 0 miles 192 for 19,950.

And they might take a bit less?

Why would someone pay you more for a 191 with 15000 km on the clock?

younggalway · 27-10-2019 5:14pm

bazz26 wrote: »

You need to review your pricing. Here is a brand new one from a dealer for 20k straight deal:

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2194136&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D78%26o%5B%5D%3D673%26f%3D1%26yn%3D2019%26yx%3D2019%26g%3D0

Ask yourself why would someone pay you 1k more, with no comeback. Dealer will offer finance facilities and take a trade in too. Your car needs to be way cheaper to tempt a buyer away from buying from a dealer.

green123 wrote: »

The main dealer is advertising a new 0 miles 192 for 19,950.

And they might take a bit less?

Why would someone pay you more for a 191 with 15000 km on the clock?

Yup, we covered this in an earlier post.

I do know of a dealer that's sold the exact same as mine for just over 20k this week and it had similar mileage. As I said I'm just testing to see if there's any demand for it over the next few weeks. As bad as it sounds, not everyone does thorough research before buying so I might be relying on such an individual who may not see that ad on Cars Ireland. I know of other dealers retailing them at 24k so the dealer selling at 19,950 must be taking a hit to clear stock. If it was a manufacturer discount they would all be doing it.

Truckermal · 27-10-2019 5:18pm

I would try hard to shift it before January though.

pablo128 · 27-10-2019 5:22pm

Why don't you ship it to Australia and use it over there?

Dia_Anseo · 27-10-2019 6:25pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Why don't you ship it to Australia and use it over there?

This sounds bonkers but when you think that OP will get VRT rebate that should cover shipping cost.

What's required to register a car in Australia? Any taxes?

How much is a similar spec Seat in Australia? Do they even have Seat in Australia? So many questions!

pablo128 · 27-10-2019 6:28pm

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

This sounds bonkers but when you think that OP will get VRT rebate that should cover shipping cost.

What's required to register a car in Australia? Any taxes?

How much is a similar spec Seat in Australia? Do they even have Seat in Australia? So many questions!

Yes they have vw, skoda, Audi and Seat. I think you are allowed personal imports. I can't imagine moving to Oz and not needing a car. I think it would kill a few birds with one stone.

Henry Ford III · 28-10-2019 12:01pm

Exporting idea is interesting.

OP if you want to sell that car privately you certainly can. Price is the key though. You'll need to undercut any dealer.

It'd be expensive, but any car can be sold privately if the price is right.

Del2005 · 28-10-2019 12:09pm

micks_address wrote: »

I've also realised that you loose heavily on extras you put into the car so kinda write that value off before you start.. like dsg cost me extra 2.5k on my car and I've been offered nothing above the cost of a manual on any trade in deal..

Extras make a car easier to sell 2nd hand, most don't add value.

Del2005 · 28-10-2019 12:10pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Why don't you ship it to Australia and use it over there?

Would the bank let the OP ship their property out of the country?

pablo128 · 28-10-2019 12:17pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Would the bank let the OP ship their property out of the country?

Read the thread. The OP said he is going to clear the finance.

Dia_Anseo · 28-10-2019 12:40pm

I've had a quick look at Australian cars and they seem much cheaper than Irish. A 2018 Corolla hybrid top spec is 18k. I couldn't find any Seat Leon for sale. Only had a quick sconce, but Seat don't seem as popular in Australia as it is here. Couldn't even find the Seat Australia website

Peatys · 28-10-2019 12:52pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

OP if you want to sell that car privately you certainly can

Is this correct? I'm driving a pcp 191 superb that I'd love to shift.

Del2005 · 28-10-2019 1:38pm

pablo128 wrote: »

Read the thread. The OP said he is going to clear the finance.

Most people clear the finance by getting the purchaser to pay the finance company.

Dia_Anseo · 28-10-2019 1:50pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Most people clear the finance by getting the purchaser to pay the finance company.

That's somewhat illegal as you cannot sell something you do not own, unless the perspective buyer is willing to send 1,000s of euro to pay your debts on a car to be transferred to your ownership then hope you will then transfer ownership to them.

Anyway, why is everyone wanting to sell their 191 cars all of a sudden? There's this Leon, an Octavia in another post and the above Superb.....all VAG cars too

pablo128 · 28-10-2019 2:49pm

younggalway wrote: »

. I'll be clearing the outstanding finance before I sell so I should be able to show them the receipt from VW bank if that offers peace of mind.

Del2005 wrote: »

Most people clear the finance by getting the purchaser to pay the finance company.

I think this is as clear as it gets.

Del2005 · 28-10-2019 3:43pm

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

That's somewhat illegal as you cannot sell something you do not own, unless the perspective buyer is willing to send 1,000s of euro to pay your debts on a car to be transferred to your ownership then hope you will then transfer ownership to them.

You get a letter from the finance company with the amount required to clear it, the buyer gets a draft or transfers that amount to the finance company and the seller gets any extra or makes up the difference.

Del2005 · 28-10-2019 3:43pm

pablo128 wrote: »

I think this is as clear as it gets.

Missed that bit.

commited · 28-10-2019 9:12pm

FYI You have the car listed as an estate so a good idea to change that.

Toyotafanboi · 28-10-2019 9:13pm

commited wrote: »

FYI You have the car listed as an estate so a good idea to change that.

They are registered as an estate afaik, not sure why. Same with a 5 door Golf.

younggalway · 28-10-2019 11:57pm

commited wrote: »

FYI You have the car listed as an estate so a good idea to change that.

I know this autopopulated when I put the reg in, noticed it too on the log book. I know it might be a small thing but it's actually a bit inconvenient if people are searching by hatchback etc.

younggalway · 29-10-2019 12:00am

Del2005 wrote: »

You get a letter from the finance company with the amount required to clear it, the buyer gets a draft or transfers that amount to the finance company and the seller gets any extra or makes up the difference.

This was my original plan as I had seen it on a few ads online, the seller outlining that the buyer would need to make the cheque etc. out to the bank. I had mentioned it to VW bank when I called them but the woman said it cant be done.

Also its probably a pain in the arse for the buyer to be giving x% to the bank and y% to me.

aFlabbyPanda · 29-10-2019 9:19am

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

That's somewhat illegal as you cannot sell something you do not own, unless the perspective buyer is willing to send 1,000s of euro to pay your debts on a car to be transferred to your ownership then hope you will then transfer ownership to them.

Anyway, why is everyone wanting to sell their 191 cars all of a sudden? There's this Leon, an Octavia in another post and the above Superb.....all VAG cars too

People's circumstances change, for us it was a house move, we'd planned to do it after 2020 but a deal came up we couldn't refuse.

Peatys · 29-10-2019 9:26am

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Anyway, why is everyone wanting to sell their 191 cars all of a sudden? There's this Leon, an Octavia in another post and the above Superb.....all VAG cars too

Change in circumstances.
Anyway, 191 dsg, 190bhp sportline superb in the best colour

with 17k kms..

FTSWB

millington · 29-10-2019 10:52am

Regardless of it being under warranty, you will still need to be dramatically cheaper than a dealer to sell it. You can't offer finance or any of the other customer services that a dealer offers. Even though it's a 2019 car, buyers would still have a lot more confidence in dealer stock than private too.

TheBoyConor · 29-10-2019 11:03am

Could you drive it up into the dealers yard, leave the keys in the glovebox and inform them and the PCP company that you are not paying any more installments and you don't want the car and it is now theirs and they can keep it.

You will loose money no matter what. The notion that you'd break even on sellling a 191 car is laughable.

bidiots · 29-10-2019 11:25am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Could you drive it up into the dealers yard, leave the keys in the glovebox and inform them and the PCP company that you are not paying any more installments and you don't want the car and it is now theirs and they can keep it.

You will loose money no matter what. The notion that you'd break even on sellling a 191 car is laughable.

Credit rating will take a hit but nothing to worry about if your stay in Oz for a decade

But not a hope getting any where near what you paid, very few would spend that cash on private sale, let alone cheaper and better options in dealerships

You're going to be taking a hit, prepare for it

naughtysmurf · 29-10-2019 11:49am

I bought a 1year old Honda from main Mazda / Peugeot dealer with only 700km on the clock a few years back for a good price, turned out the Honda owner had taken ill & was no longer permitted to drive, he had come to some arrangement with the dealer to sell it for him, I assume with the dealer getting his cut, in your situation that's what I'd probably do because you will struggle to sell private but you will take a bit of a hit I expect

colm_mcm · 29-10-2019 11:59am

I would suggest that a dealer would buy the car from the OP for around €15k.

TheBoyConor · 29-10-2019 12:01pm

Burn it and claim the cost back off of the insurance. I think fire doesn't affect NCB. Only lose exces.

silverwood · 29-10-2019 12:05pm

I sympathise with you as I’ve been there. Two years ago, I needed to sell my 162 Skoda Superb Style estate. Bought on PCP for about €39k. I paid off the finance and eventually sold it privately (just under a year old) for €25k. I still feel nauseous when I think about it!

There is no way you are not going to take a big loss on this. My advice is just accept it and move on. The longer you don’t face reality, the more you will lose.

Best of luck with it and your move to Australia.

mandrake04 · 29-10-2019 12:20pm

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

This sounds bonkers but when you think that OP will get VRT rebate that should cover shipping cost.

What's required to register a car in Australia? Any taxes?

How much is a similar spec Seat in Australia? Do they even have Seat in Australia? So many questions!

SEAT were in Australia in the mid to late 90s but no longer have a presence.

There are certain rules about importing cars most common imports are usual vintage or specialist performance cars.

You can import a personal car called a Personal import approval, this is for migrants who are immigrating with a family car, you need to have been granted permanent residency/Citizenship. You couldn’t for example import a car if you were only on a 417 visa which is a working Holiday visa.

Is it worth importing? since parts, servicing, warranty and spec might be an issue and if you did import then likely you would need to keep for its life as you might find difficult to sell.

Selling a 191 privately?

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