Night rate or not.

JPA · 03-09-2019 11:18am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

you reckon?
Suppose it could be like this, but not sure.

Just ring and ask.

n97 mini · 03-09-2019 11:24am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

.... and that can cost about 200 euro. (rented house)

Does anybody know about this move back to standard rate - does the fee only have to be paid if you dont stay with a provider for a year? or do you have to pay it regardless of how long you are with them?

Read my first post on this thread. I've switched over and back and over again.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 11:59am

n97 mini wrote: »

Read my first post on this thread. I've switched over and back and over again.

yeah, but can differ by provider

SteM · 03-09-2019 12:03pm

Bord gais are my electric supplier. Spoke to them yesterday and they said there was a €192 charge to change the meter back from night rate.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 12:06pm

SteM wrote: »

Bord gais are my electric supplier. Spoke to them yesterday and they said there was a €192 charge to change the meter back from night rate.

yeah, im with Energia and 192 euro also was the figure they gave.

Some cod, like for them, how can they justify 192 euro. its probably minimal work for them to change back

Mickeroo · 03-09-2019 12:11pm

That doesn't make much sense to me, the metre is nothing to do with the provider?

Alkers · 03-09-2019 12:14pm

SteM wrote: »

Bord gais are my electric supplier. Spoke to them yesterday and they said there was a €192 charge to change the meter back from night rate.

The providers tend to mention this but to change from night rate to 24hrs you don't need to change the meter at all, you just need to change your billing. The meter has separate displays for night, day and total.

n97 mini · 03-09-2019 12:30pm

Alkers wrote: »

The providers tend to mention this but to change from night rate to 24hrs you don't need to change the meter at all, you just need to change your billing. The meter has separate displays for night, day and total.

That's pretty much it. I was told by Energia and Airtricity there'd be a charge because they have to physically change the meter. I knew this was BS so I asked what if they don't need to change it. "Oh they definitely will" :rolleyes:

ESBN lad noted on the system both times no meter change.

In fairness you're dealing with people in a call centre who have probably never even seen a meter.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 12:37pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That's pretty much it. I was told by Energia and Airtricity there'd be a charge because they have to physically change the meter. I knew this was BS so I asked what if they don't need to change it. "Oh they definitely will" :rolleyes:

ESBN lad noted on the system both times no meter change.

In fairness you're dealing with people in a call centre who have probably never even seen a meter.

Currently, my standard meter from 2004 only has 1 display. Then if I was to change to night rate, they would install the one with dual displays......then to change back to standard no further physical work needed as it will have 2 displays.

So yeah looking for 192 to change back sounds rubbish.

And then the initial thing of changing to the night rate meter is free, this is the thing that actually involves work and changing meters, having someone come to your house and do physical work with the meter box

SteM · 03-09-2019 12:39pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Currently, my standard meter from 2004 only has 1 display. Then if I was to change to night rate, they would install the one with dual displays......then to change back to standard no further physical work needed as it will have 2 displays.

So yeah looking for 192 to change back sounds rubbish.

And then the initial thing of changing to the night rate meter is free, this involves actual work with meters.

I'm getting it done in Monday. BG said there would be a €270 charge from esbn for 5hr install but they waver that, didn't say why.

JPA · 03-09-2019 12:42pm

SteM wrote: »

I'm getting it done in Monday. BG said there would be a €270 charge from esbn for 5hr install but they waver that, didn't say why.

Literally takes 5 minutes.

KCross · 03-09-2019 1:14pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

reading at midnight last night = 65,291.9
reading at 9am this morning = 65,294.8

Here are my figures for your case with some small assumptions built in....

Energia as your provider and I'll assume you're an urban account.

24hr discounted rate - 14.51c/kWh
Standing charge - €181.27

Day/Night rate - 15.91c/7.62
Standing Charge - €227.07

Your yearly consumption is 5200 units split as 4100/1100 for day/night.

So, excluding any EV or any change in appliance behavior the figures would be:

Stay on 24hr rate - €936
Switch to day/night - €963

So it would be marginally more expensive to switch right now without the EV.

So, lets add the EV to the equation...

8000km per year. That's quite low so I'm going to assume the majority of that is slow urban type driving which would be at around 16kWh/100km for the Leaf. Add in 10% for chargng losses would give you 17.6kWh/100km for a total of 1400kWh's.

So, including the EV for 8000km/yr the figures would be:

Stay on 24hr rate - €1139
Switch to day/night - €1070

Modest saving of €70

Up to yourself then whether you want to shift more of your other usage (washing, drying etc) onto night rate or not to increase that saving.

TL;DR - Your EV mileage is small, so thats why the saving is small.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 1:23pm

KCross wrote: »

Here are my figures for your case with some small assumptions built in....

Energia as your provider and I'll assume you're an urban account.

24hr discounted rate - 14.51c/kWh
Standing charge - €181.27

Day/Night rate - 15.91c/7.62
Standing Charge - €227.07

Your yearly consumption is 5200 units split as 4100/1100 for day/night.

So, excluding any EV or any change in appliance behavior the figures would be:

Stay on 24hr rate - €936
Switch to day/night - €963

So it would be marginally more expensive to switch right now without the EV.

So, lets add the EV to the equation...

8000km per year. That's quite low so I'm going to assume the majority of that is slow urban type driving which would be at around 16kWh/100km for the Leaf. Add in 10% for chargng losses would give you 17.6kWh/100km for a total of 1400kWh's.

So, including the EV for 8000km/yr the figures would be:

Stay on 24hr rate - €1139
Switch to day/night - €1070

Modest saving of €70

Up to yourself then whether you want to shift more of your other usage (washing, drying etc) onto night rate or not to increase that saving.

TL;DR - Your EV mileage is small, so thats why the saving is small.

Thank you.
modest enough alright, then 50 euro extra for the standing charge (I know you mention it, not sure if you had this included in final costs)

KCross · 03-09-2019 1:28pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thank you.
modest enough alright, then 50 euro extra for the standing charge (I know you mention it, not sure if you had this included in final costs)

I've included the standing charge. The €70 is what you will actually save.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 1:43pm

KCross wrote: »

I've included the standing charge. The €70 is what you will actually save.

grand, thanks again.

something to think about anyway, not as cut and dry as one would have thought.
It is indeed a saving, but not as much as I expected.

03-09-2019 3:01pm

How does it compare to keeping your old ICE vehicle?

Black_Knight · 03-09-2019 3:19pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

grand, thanks again.

something to think about anyway, not as cut and dry as one would have thought.
It is indeed a saving, but not as much as I expected.

I'd be curious to see what's using all those units. I know you say your wife is home during the day.

My wife was at home for about the last 9 months after our daughter was born. I checked usage between October and January, and it would end up meaning we'd only use about 3500kw a year. In the early days, the TV was on usually about 5-7hours a day (i've the stats to prove it). Washes were regular (newborns will do that to ya), as was the dryer (winter months). Oven on most evenings, kettle going regularly for visitor and tea during the day. Heating (not that it'd use much electricity) was on a bit too. I've also a mini PC that's been running non-stop for the last 1-2 years.

Being in a rental, are your appliances old/poorly rated? I made a point of buying an A+ or higher rated washing machine, dryer and fridge when we got our house. I've also fitted LEDs to every light socket in the house. I'm going a bit off topic, but i'm curious as to where you're using all that electricity. Do you have an immersion, electric shower, are you a welder!?

Black_Knight · 03-09-2019 3:22pm

samih wrote: »

How does it compare to keeping your old ICE vehicle?

Seems he's buying an EV regardless of whether he moves to night rate or not. Assume we're having this "night rate" conversation at a time when the OP has an EV, thus the fuel savings aspect is moot.

n97 mini · 03-09-2019 3:25pm

SteM wrote: »

I'm getting it done in Monday. BG said there would be a €270 charge from esbn for 5hr install but they waver that, didn't say why.

Probably means within a 5 hour window.

JPA wrote: »

Literally takes 5 minutes.

^ this

green123 · 03-09-2019 3:37pm

Thank you Black_Knight and KCross for confirming basically the same thing i said earlier in the thread.

I was called a fool for coming to these same conclusions.

Unkel
You owe me an apology

Black_Knight · 03-09-2019 4:01pm

green123 wrote: »

Thank you Black_Knight and KCross for confirming basically the same thing i said earlier in the thread.

I was called a fool for coming to these same conclusions.

Unkel
You owe me an apology

Not sure unkel has anything to apologise about.

We proved going on a night rate is cheaper if you own an EV. Unkel said this all along
He acknowledges he would break even more or less if he switched to a night meter without an EV. It's his circumstances, and even toms high day use isn't miles off breaking even when switching to a night rate.
His main point is, "own an EV, get a night rate meter, you'll save money". Again, we've proven this to be true.
You say the savings aren't significant. So what! They're savings. Tis a near enough getting 1 months electricity for free.

green123 · 03-09-2019 4:26pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not sure unkel has anything to apologise about.
We proved going on a night rate is cheaper if you own an EV. Unkel said this all along

He acknowledges he would break even more or less if he switched to a night meter without an EV. It's his circumstances, and even toms high day use isn't miles off breaking even when switching to a night rate.

His main point is, "own an EV, get a night rate meter, you'll save money". Again, we've proven this to be true.

You say the savings aren't significant. So what! They're savings. Tis a near enough getting 1 months electricity for free.

He should apologise for calling me a fool.

Nothing i said was foolish.

I have already given a list of things unkel was wrong about.

Everything i said was right

03-09-2019 4:35pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Seems he's buying an EV regardless of whether he moves to night rate or not. Assume we're having this "night rate" conversation at a time when the OP has an EV, thus the fuel savings aspect is moot.

What I intended here is to remind everybody that regardless of the whole night rate or not issue the runnings costs of an EV are most likely cheaper than not to drive one.

If the previous car averaged say 7 l/100 km that would be well over 500 liters of fuel at 1.30-1.50 a liter depending on the station and fuel type. So 100-200 EUR electricity vs. over 700 Quid or more for previous ICE.

Black_Knight · 03-09-2019 4:46pm

I think your list of "things unkel was wrong about" is wrong.

Tom uses way more day units than average, and he's only 30 quid worse off when moving to a night meter. The average house would be much closer to break even if beyond it.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 4:58pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

I'd be curious to see what's using all those units. I know you say your wife is home during the day.

My wife was at home for about the last 9 months after our daughter was born. I checked usage between October and January, and it would end up meaning we'd only use about 3500kw a year. In the early days, the TV was on usually about 5-7hours a day (i've the stats to prove it). Washes were regular (newborns will do that to ya), as was the dryer (winter months). Oven on most evenings, kettle going regularly for visitor and tea during the day. Heating (not that it'd use much electricity) was on a bit too. I've also a mini PC that's been running non-stop for the last 1-2 years.

Being in a rental, are your appliances old/poorly rated? I made a point of buying an A+ or higher rated washing machine, dryer and fridge when we got our house. I've also fitted LEDs to every light socket in the house. I'm going a bit off topic, but i'm curious as to where you're using all that electricity. Do you have an immersion, electric shower, are you a welder!?

Trust me , I bloody wonder too. Wife must be welding full time on the sly

Washing machine, Fridge, Drier, cooker, dishwasher all under 4 years old. Have decent energy ratings.
House is big, over 2500 square feet, and its hard to heat, heating is on a lot during winter. plus have pellet stove that is on a lot, and the bloody dryer seems to be on the whole time in winter.

immersion is very rarely on, we use the oil (another money pit) to heat the water.
electric shower never used

I work from home a lot too so another room which consumes power.

how my bills are so high, im not sure.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 11:13pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Hi

reading at midnight last night = 65,291.9
reading at 9am this morning = 65,294.8

Out of interest, just did a check again. All in bed here. Nothing really of note using power bar the fridge.

Reading was: 65,304.9

So 10.1 units used between 9am and 11pm.

Are we using way too much?

Black_Knight · 03-09-2019 11:31pm

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Out of interest, just did a check again. All in bed here. Nothing really of note using power bar the fridge.

Reading was: 65,304.9

So 10.1 units used between 9am and 11pm.

Are we using way too much?

Are you saying nothing of note was being used all day, or just nothing of note being used at the moment?

And overall, yes, you're using over the average in Ireland.

tom_tarbucket · 03-09-2019 11:36pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Are you saying nothing of note was being used all day, or just nothing of note being used at the moment?

And overall, yes, you're using over the average in Ireland.

Nothing of note being used at the moment. Just the fridge.

Today used all the usual, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher etc.

I suppose in saying this the average house will not have someone at home all day. And then working from home too all day, 2 x monitors, dock station, power over Ethernet adapters, modem and so forth.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 10:11am

did another one today meter reading today. based on last few readings;

Looks like I use 3-4 units overnight. midnight-9am (last night used 4 units, night before only 2.9. drier was thrown on at 8am this morning so this pushed it up to 4 I imagine)

And use 10 during the day. 9am-midnight.

is the 3-4 about ok and the issue being the 10 units during the day or both are just on the high side?

unkel · 04-09-2019 10:21am

(3.5 * 0.08 + 10 * 0.19)*365 + 50 < (13.5 * 0.18)*365
€845.70 < €886.95

night rate cheaper than 24h rate

And that is without making any changes in behaviour and without even having an EV. QED.

Mickeroo · 04-09-2019 10:30am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

did another one today meter reading today. based on last few readings;

Looks like I use 3-4 units overnight. midnight-9am (last night used 4 units, night before only 2.9. drier was thrown on at 8am this morning so this pushed it up to 4 I imagine)

And use 10 during the day. 9am-midnight.

is the 3-4 about ok and the issue being the 10 units during the day or both are just on the high side?

On our last bill we averaged roughly 4 units day rate and 10 night rate. That's with an EV being charge 2 to 3 times a week. We also run washing machine and dish washer on delayed start and most showers would be during night rate hours too this time of year at least.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 10:31am

unkel wrote: »

(3.5 * 0.08 + 10 * 0.19)*365 + 50 < (13.5 * 0.18)*365
€845.70 < €886.95

night rate cheaper than 24h rate

And that is without making any changes in behaviour and without even having an EV. QED.

my figures with energia would be

Standard = 0.1611.
Night = 0.0846 Day = 0.1765

stay as is : 793
night rate : 802

but yeah, a change in behavior would easily shift this.
I dont really want to have dryer on overnight.

But dishwasher = yes
Washing machine = yes

They are both A rated.
Dishwasher runs for 1 hour 35.
Washing machine can be 2-3 hours

How much roughly would these consume on a cycle?

Lets even forget about the EV in the equation for now, just my current scenario.

adunis · 04-09-2019 10:36am

Jeez guy let's not rush into a decision whatever you do........

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 10:44am

adunis wrote: »

Jeez guy let's not rush into a decision whatever you do........

Kinda funny, but not helpful

n97 mini · 04-09-2019 10:44am

We average 4.7 units per day (5.1 average night). But we use nothing electrical that generates heat during the day, except the kettle. No tumble dryer, no cooker (because gas), no immersion. As stated before you can run these appliances in the morning and still be on night rate.

tom_tarbucket · 04-09-2019 11:18am

n97 mini wrote: »

We average 4.7 units per day (5.1 average night). But we use nothing electrical that generates heat during the day, except the kettle. No tumble dryer, no cooker (because gas), no immersion. As stated before you can run these appliances in the morning and still be on night rate.

ok, right. different story for me with wife in house all day long, plus me working from home.

Black_Knight · 04-09-2019 11:24am

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

They are both A rated.
Dishwasher runs for 1 hour 35.
Washing machine can be 2-3 hours

How much roughly would these consume on a cycle?

Lets even forget about the EV in the equation for now, just my current scenario.

My washing machine runs for 2 hours. Uses ~700-800W in that cycle.
Dryer uses about 1.4kW on it's cycle.

Not sure about a dishwasher, yet. I've my energy monitor on the fridge at the moment just to stir **** in this thread

So far today its used 230W.

OP, have you talked to your landlord about putting in a night rate meter, and whether or not you'd have to switch it back when you leave the house? That's really all you need to know. The savings are there if you switch, but the potential fee involved in switching back may negate it.

adunis wrote: »

Jeez guy let's not rush into a decision whatever you do........

Too right, time to make a decision OP.

KCross · 04-09-2019 11:28am

adunis wrote: »

Jeez guy let's not rush into a decision whatever you do........

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Kinda funny, but not helpful

Tom, he has a point. You're over analysing it down to the last few cent.

As is, it is marginally more expensive to switch. So dont.

Add the EV and you will make ~€70 saving. Switch to night rate then.
Switch some appliance to night rate hours and that €70 goes up but not by hundreds... maybe €50 depending on which appliances and how often you use them.

Its a simple decision.... if you're adding an EV and you're willing to switch appliances to nigth rate then you should switch. It will cost nothing to switch.

KCross · 04-09-2019 11:37am

Black_Knight wrote: »

My washing machine runs for 2 hours. Uses ~700-800W in that cycle.
Dryer uses about 1.4kW on it's cycle.

Not sure about a dishwasher, yet. I've my energy monitor on the fridge at the moment just to stir **** in this thread So far today its used 230W.

I measured mine before....
Dryer - 30c
Washing m/c - 7c
Dishwasher - 12c

The program you select etc is relevant but thats a rough idea.

Fridge used €12 for 56 days so €78 for the year.

Black_Knight wrote: »

OP, have you talked to your landlord about putting in a night rate meter, and whether or not you'd have to switch it back when you leave the house? That's really all you need to know. The savings are there if you switch, but the potential fee involved in switching back may negate it.

Its an interesting question. I would have thought that once a tenant leaves the new tenant would get the account in their name (as a new customer) and would be able to freely pick between 24hr or day/night rate.

Its not like a call out is required to change the meter.

I cant really see a situation where the OP is forced to pay a switch back fee when he leaves but better get the landlords consent just to be sure.

green123 · 05-09-2019 12:21am

Black_Knight wrote: »

Not sure about a dishwasher, yet. I've my energy monitor on the fridge at the moment just to stir **** in this thread So far today its used 230W.

Why are you trying to stir sh¡t in the thread?

green123 · 05-09-2019 12:47am

unkel wrote: »

(3.5 * 0.08 + 10 * 0.19)*365 + 50 < (13.5 * 0.18)*365
€845.70 < €886.95

night rate cheaper than 24h rate

And that is without making any changes in behaviour and without even having an EV. QED.

Why did you pick a very high tariff 18 cent as the 24 hour unit price?

I have already pointed out that 15.2 cent per unit is available on the 24 hour rate.

You are deliberately choosing misleading high rates to skew the numbers.

I already had to tell you not to do this in relation to very high mileage you were posting and now you are doing it again by by picking a higher 24 hour rate than necessary.

I shouldn't have to keep correcting you like this.

Please stop trying to mislead people with the wrong figures.

Now let's try that same sum again, but this time with the 15.2 unit price not your misleading 18 cent figure.

(3.5 * 0.08 + 10 * 0.19)*365 + 50 < (13.5 * 0.18)*365
€845.70 > €748.98

Night rate nearly a hundred euro more expensive.

punisher5112 · 05-09-2019 12:50am

Shower at night rate, use immersion if fitted at night rate, use a few more lights especially outside for security and so on... Savings to be made....

ED E · 05-09-2019 1:23am

Black_Knight wrote: »

My washing machine runs for 2 hours. Uses ~700-800W in that cycle.
Dryer uses about 1.4kW on it's cycle.

Not sure about a dishwasher, yet. I've my energy monitor on the fridge at the moment just to stir **** in this thread So far today its used 230W.

OP, have you talked to your landlord about putting in a night rate meter, and whether or not you'd have to switch it back when you leave the house? That's really all you need to know. The savings are there if you switch, but the potential fee involved in switching back may negate it.

Too right, time to make a decision OP.

C'mon, this isnt AH. Use the correct unit.

krissovo · 05-09-2019 8:08am

green123 wrote: »

You are deliberately choosing misleading high rates to skew the numbers.

Are you using deliberately low numbers to skew the numbers?

Please do the numbers for plugging in a EV and then come back and try not to confuse everyone with your arguments.

green123 · 05-09-2019 9:46am

krissovo wrote: »

Are you using deliberately low numbers to skew the numbers?

Please do the numbers for plugging in a EV and then come back and try not to confuse everyone with your arguments.

Of course i am choosing the lowest unit rate i can find.
Why would you anyone choose to pay a higher rate?

Bizarre question krissovo.

Also, tom has said a few posts ago that he wants to just look at his current situation for now without the ev.

Try to keep up with what is going on in the thread

krissovo · 05-09-2019 10:36am

How can it be a bizarre question when most people do not pay 15.2c for their electricity. I just checked the only company that supplies that rate has only been trading a few months in the country.

green123 · 05-09-2019 10:46am

krissovo wrote: »

How can it be a bizarre question when most people do not pay 15.2c for their electricity. I just checked the only company that supplies that rate has only been trading a few months in the country.

So use 15.29 or 15.37 from other companies or any of the many other much better rates than 18.

You completely failed to understand the main point of picking the best rate until i explained it to you.

Its bizarre that you would question the idea of paying the lowest rate available

n97 mini · 05-09-2019 11:41am

green123 wrote: »

Why did you pick a very high tariff 18 cent as the 24 hour unit price?

I have already pointed out that 15.2 cent per unit is available on the 24 hour rate.

You are deliberately choosing misleading high rates to skew the numbers.
.

What's the standing charge on the 15.2c rate?

krissovo · 05-09-2019 11:54am

Do you pick the cheapest of everything that is available to you? By your logic it would be bizarre if you typed your response using anything other than a Cubot Quest 4g phone or some cheap desktop.

KCross · 05-09-2019 12:18pm

krissovo wrote: »

Do you pick the cheapest of everything that is available to you?

Not wanting to get in the way of a fight here!... but, you should pick the cheapest electricity provider.

Electricity from Energia is the same as electricity from Airtricity etc..... paying above the odds for electricity makes no sense unless you have some issue with their customer service or something, which would be a separate argument.

Night rate or not.

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