Pearse Doherty questions Insurance CEOs

Blueshoe · 08-07-2019 9:44pm #1

He did a fantastic job. Backed them into a corner

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1147182930848038912?s=19

NIMAN · 08-07-2019 9:49pm

Fair play to PD, he had them squirming.

Considering they moan about fraud all the time, it's amazing that they have only reported 19 cases between them to the Gardai.

Assetbacked · 08-07-2019 9:53pm

Approximately 20% are fraudulent yet only 1% reported to Gardaí. Therefore, hardly any cases are fraudulent and the insurance companies are spinning yarns. The question is what will happen though, will anything come about? Perhaps remove compulsory car insurance and have everyone at a basic standard, after which they can supplement it at their own cost? Dramatically reduce the figures in the book of quantum combined with removing the egg shell skull rule from law?

Nikki Sixx · 08-07-2019 9:55pm

Excellent probing by Pearse.They really are conning the public and all into their one or two cases in court, where they catch out a fraudulent claimant.

pure.conya · 08-07-2019 10:25pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Dramatically reduce the figures in the book of quantum combined with removing the egg shell skull rule from law?

ya you say this right up until the point when you get injured yourself, it's not the book of quantum that's at fault at all, many solicitors handle several claims for certain people, even if a claim isnt found to be fraudulent surely the same people having such bad luck that they end up in regular accident claims should be looked into

insurance companies should be there to make a few quid if there's money left over between money coming in and claims, instead people get penalised for calling in the very service both parties signed up for and paid a handsome price for

Nikki Sixx · 08-07-2019 10:31pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Approximately 20% are fraudulent yet only 1% reported to Gardaí. Therefore, hardly any cases are fraudulent and the insurance companies are spinning yarns. The question is what will happen though, will anything come about? Perhaps remove compulsory car insurance and have everyone at a basic standard, after which they can supplement it at their own cost? Dramatically reduce the figures in the book of quantum combined with removing the egg shell skull rule from law?

What’s the egg shell skull rule?

Inquitus · 08-07-2019 10:41pm

Aye not a fan of Sinn Fein, but he did an excellent job there. He'd do a much better job than Mary Lou I feel.

Nikki Sixx · 08-07-2019 10:45pm

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

What’s the egg shell skull rule?

I googled it and found out

Nikki Sixx · 08-07-2019 10:46pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye not a fan of Sinn Fein, but he did an excellent job there. He'd do a much better job than Mary Lou I feel.

Much better debater, Mary Lou is getting a name as being a moan bag.

Floppybits · 08-07-2019 10:51pm

He went through them like a dose of salts

meeeeh · 08-07-2019 10:51pm

Half of thdir base probably sues for soft tissue injuries. It's no wonder he will blame everything on insurance companies.

Report on insurance payouts came out and while the sums avarded for big claims reduced the awards in soft tissue injuries slightly increased. Another set of numbers was showing that despite increase in insurance profits liability insurance showed loss.

I have no love for insurance companies and they prefer increasing premiums than reporting fraud but I don't for a second believe there are almost no fraudulent or exaggerated claims.

suicide_circus · 08-07-2019 10:52pm

good job

Nikki Sixx · 08-07-2019 10:57pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Half of thdir base probably sues for soft tissue injuries. It's no wonder he will blame everything on insurance companies.

Report on insurance payouts came out and while the sums avarded for big claims reduced the awards in soft tissue injuries slightly increased. Another set of numbers was showing that despite increase in insurance profits liability insurance showed loss.

I have no love for insurance companies and they prefer increasing premiums than reporting fraud but I don't for a second believe there are almost no fraudulent or exaggerated claims.

Okay, but there has to be a balance between their profits and the premiums they charge. People are being priced out of driving a car. Low income families (possibly Sinn Fein Voters) would struggle to put a teenage son or daughter on the road.

meeeeh · 08-07-2019 11:14pm

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

Okay, but there has to be a balance between their profits and the premiums they charge. People are being priced out of driving a car. Low income families (possibly Sinn Fein Voters) would struggle to put a teenage son or daughter on the road.

Insurance companies are part of the problem but let's not pretend they are the only problem.

Mrsmum · 08-07-2019 11:59pm

Wow. He made them look both stupid and shifty.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 12:03am

meeeeh wrote: »

Insurance companies are part of the problem but let's not pretend they are the only problem.

Who's pretending that they are the only problem?
The insurance companies have been caught pretending there are anything like the number of fraudulent claims they have been claiming that are driving up premiums. Caught gouging in layman's terms.

TheRepentent · 09-07-2019 12:45am

I have zero time for SF as a party..populist **** with a hint of violence.
but he's spot on asking the hard questions for the insurance companies.....his interaction with them will force the law to change

CosmicFool · 09-07-2019 1:04am

Will anything change though? Unlikely

meeeeh · 09-07-2019 9:14am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who's pretending that they are the only problem?
The insurance companies have been caught pretending there are anything like the number of fraudulent claims they have been claiming that are driving up premiums. Caught gouging in layman's terms.

I bet there is no point in reporting suspected fraudulent claims. Besides what happens when claims are just exaggerated, it's not like Maria Bailey and similar will be prosecuted for exaggerating their injuries.

deandean · 09-07-2019 9:16am

Pearse Doherty is very good in that role. That's not the first time he did a good job with the questioning.

STB. · 09-07-2019 9:25am

deandean wrote: »

Pearse Doherty is very good in that role. That's not the first time he did a good job with the questioning.

Yeah I watched it. He was very good at cutting through the BS and you are right its not the first time. He is well able to speak.

Jonathan O Brien is also very good at speaking and was fantastic when the FAI where hauled in.

Pity that both are wasted in SF.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 9:58am

meeeeh wrote: »

I bet there is no point in reporting suspected fraudulent claims. Besides what happens when claims are just exaggerated, it's not like Maria Bailey and similar will be prosecuted for exaggerating their injuries.

...and whose fault is that? Mine? Yours? Pearse Doherty's?

You threw the blame immediately on 'half their base'. Put the blame where it lies and then we might get somewhere.

meeeeh · 09-07-2019 10:09am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

...and whose fault is that? Mine? Yours? Pearse Doherty's?

You threw the blame immediately on 'half their base'. Put the blame where it lies and then we might get somewhere.

He is pnpy asking questions which won't lose him point with his base. We don't need politicians like that.

I have some experience of trying to renew liability insurance. When insurers don't even bother staying in the market and quote to price gauge customers you know there are issues.

Insurance companies should be asked why so many claims are settled for exorbitant amounts, why they don't challenge more cases.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 10:17am

meeeeh wrote: »

He is pnpy asking questions which won't lose him point with his base. We don't need politicians like that.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I have some experience of trying to renew liability insurance. When insurers don't even bother staying in the market and quote to price gauge customers you know there are issues.

Insurance companies should be asked why so many claims are settled for exorbitant amounts, why they don't challenge more cases.

But if the 'wrong' person asks that question you will rubbish the questioner and not listen to the answer.

These insurers were caught hook line and sinker gouging you. me and everybody else.

meeeeh · 09-07-2019 10:26am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

But if the 'wrong' person asks that question you will rubbish the questioner and not listen to the answer.

These insurers were caught hook line and sinker gouging you. me and everybody else.

And so does legal profession and people who claim but apparently there are almost no exaggerated claims. And btw our last year's insurer just stopped offering cover. They didn't even bother charging more for it.

STB. · 09-07-2019 10:32am

They certainly were caught out.

The industry were claiming that 20% of the claims were fraudulent and that was responsible for increases in premiums. When Doherty dug into these figures not alone were the number of cases considered fraudulent a tiny percentage of the industries claims, the number reported to Gardai's fraud unit was less than 1% of claims.

Meanwhile profits at insurance companies have increased by 1318%, despite rising premiums for customers.

If it is ever proven that the industry is operating as a cartel, well, then those involved may find themselves on the other end of a fraud investigation.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 10:35am

STB. wrote: »

They certainly were caught out.

The industry were claiming that 20% of the claims were fraudulent and that was responsible for increases in premiums. When Doherty dug into these figures not alone were the number of cases considered fraudulent a tiny percentage of the industries claims, the number reported to Gardai's fraud unit was less than 1% of claims.

Meanwhile profits at insurance companies have increased by 1318%, despite rising premiums for customers.

Which is another way of saying they are gouging people who have no choice and no choice, but to have insurance.

STB. · 09-07-2019 10:38am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is another way of saying they are gouging people who have no choice and no choice, but to have insurance.

Was it organised though ? It would seem so.

We will know when the European Commission completes its anti trust investigation.

enricoh · 09-07-2019 10:43am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who's pretending that they are the only problem?
The insurance companies have been caught pretending there are anything like the number of fraudulent claims they have been claiming that are driving up premiums. Caught gouging in layman's terms.

If there's that much money to be made in insurance in ireland surely uk n eu insurers would flock here to make a killing.

They're not though, only reason being our payouts are rediculous, 4.5 times that of the uk for whiplash. Make whiplash payout the same as the uk, then crucify the insurers if premiums dont drop accordingly.

STB. · 09-07-2019 10:47am

enricoh wrote: »

If there's that much money to be made in insurance in ireland surely uk n eu insurers would flock here to make a killing.

They're not though, only reason being our payouts are rediculous, 4.5 times that of the uk for whiplash. Make whiplash payout the same as the uk, then crucify the insurers if premiums dont drop accordingly.

The insurance lobby group (Insurance Ireland) is being investigated by the European Commission over allegations that it withheld membership from underwriters and created obstacles to entering the Irish insurance market.

is_that_so · 09-07-2019 10:47am

TheRepentent wrote: »

I have zero time for SF as a party..populist **** with a hint of violence.
but he's spot on asking the hard questions for the insurance companies.....his interaction with them will force the law to change

That's up to the Dail to decide. Grandstanding at a committee hearing doesn't change much.

STB. · 09-07-2019 10:50am

is_that_so wrote: »

That's up to the Dail to decide. Grandstanding at a committee hearing doesn't change much.

Unfortunately they have done nothing and it has required the European Commission to step in. Banking regulation, Insurance Regulation. All light touch in Ireland.

The industry is worth 2bn.

90% of the motor insurance market controlled by 6 companies and 80% of business insurance controlled by 6 also.

09-07-2019 10:50am

Assetbacked wrote: »

Approximately 20% are fraudulent yet only 1% reported to GardaTherefore, hardly any cases are fraudulent and the insurance companies are spinning yarns. The question is what will happen though, will anything come about? Perhaps remove compulsory car insurance and have everyone at a basic standard, after which they can supplement it at their own cost? Dramatically reduce the figures in the book of quantum combined with removing the egg shell skull rule from law?

Can't agree with the bolded part. If you crash into someone or cause them injury in some way, you should be liable for their injuries....full stop. Trying to weasel out of liability because they suffer from brittle bones or whatever is pretty low.

JohnnyFlash · 09-07-2019 10:54am

Doherty is all fart and no follow through. Dude seems to think that pretending to be angry is leadership. It isn’t. SF are notorious for using the committee structures to conduct showpieces like this. That said, he’s better than Mary Lou. She has a voice like a fücking foghorn.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 10:56am

is_that_so wrote: »

That's up to the Dail to decide. Grandstanding at a committee hearing doesn't change much.

THAT (what Doherty did) is the JOB of the committees. What is grandstanding about uncovering fraudulent claims by insurance companies?

Plumbthedepths · 09-07-2019 10:59am

JohnnyFlash wrote:

Doherty is all fart and no follow through. Dude seems to think that pretending to be angry is leadership. It isnâ€™t. SF are notorious for using the committee structures to conduct showpieces like this. That said, heâ€™s better than Mary Lou. She has a voice like a fÃ¼cking foghorn.

Quick question, is he wrong? Simple yes or no will suffice if you can put aside your bias .

JohnnyFlash · 09-07-2019 11:02am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Quick question, is he wrong? Simple yes or no will suffice if you can put aside your bias .

The issues with our insurance industry are complex and myriad, and not the sort of thing that can be broken down into populist soundbites during a short speech. He makes a valid point if looking at the issue from the outrage seats.

is_that_so · 09-07-2019 11:02am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

THAT (what Doherty did) is the JOB of the committees. What is grandstanding about uncovering fraudulent claims by insurance companies?

It's actually not and you know how badly PAC have thrown shapes in recent years. If it's so effective what did or will it achieve? They are private companies and being grilled by an "inconsequential" politician is no big deal to them. What they do have to respond to is regulation and legislation. She at them doesn't quite have the same effect.

meeeeh · 09-07-2019 11:02am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Quick question, is he wrong? Simple yes or no will suffice if you can put aside your bias .

Simple yes/no doesn't answer the question. Simple yes/no is good enough for Pearse Doherty and people with pitchforks but actual problem is much more nuanced.

Plumbthedepths · 09-07-2019 11:03am

JohnnyFlash wrote:

The issues with our insurance industry are complex and myriad, and not the sort of thing that can be broken down into populist soundbites during a short speech. He makes a valid point if looking at the issue from the outrage seats.

So I will take it as given you cannot set aside your bias. Thanks for confirming.

tayto lover · 09-07-2019 11:06am

Blueshoe wrote: »

He did a fantastic job. Backed them into a corner

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1147182930848038912?s=19

Fair play Doherty.
We’re being ripped off.

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-07-2019 11:07am

no time for Sinn Fein but that's the end of that argument

tayto lover · 09-07-2019 11:09am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Doherty is all fart and no follow through. Dude seems to think that pretending to be angry is leadership. It isn’t. SF are notorious for using the committee structures to conduct showpieces like this. That said, he’s better than Mary Lou. She has a voice like a fücking foghorn.

Forget about the personalities for a moment and think about the facts.
Doherty has proven that we are being sold a pup.
Now let’s see the Government take action, let’s see them follow through. They seem very silent.

I personally don’t believe they will.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 11:09am

is_that_so wrote: »

It's actually not and you know how badly PAC have thrown shapes in recent years. If it's so effective what did or will it achieve? They are private companies and being grilled by an "inconsequential" politician is no big deal to them. What they do have to respond to is regulation and legislation. She at them doesn't quite have the same effect.

If the sitting government refuse to move on what committees find out then that is not the fault of the committees.

'No big deal'? Clearly you haven't watched people caught redhanded squirm on that video.

Tell me how · 09-07-2019 11:09am

meeeeh wrote: »

Simple yes/no doesn't answer the question. Simple yes/no is good enough for Pearse Doherty and people with pitchforks but actual problem is much more nuanced.

Maybe. But let's make this the start of a conversation.

If the following is true; industry claims of fraudulent activity, which are used to justify increased premiums for companies whose profits have increased dramatically, are vastly exaggerated, then it is indefensible, even if there are people making false claims (which there unquestionably is).

Plumbthedepths · 09-07-2019 11:11am

meeeeh wrote:

Simple yes/no doesn't answer the question. Simple yes/no is good enough for Pearse Doherty and people with pitchforks but actual problem is much more nuanced.

Doherty disputed the fraud figures given by the insurance industry to justify the high cost of insurance yet on examination the percentage figures if fraud are far less and the numbers of actual fraud reported to AGS is atrocious . I guess it is nuanced when we have two sitting government TDs whom themselves attempted insurance fraud.

is_that_so · 09-07-2019 11:16am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the sitting government refuse to move on what committees find out then that is not the fault of the committees.

'No big deal'? Clearly you haven't watched people caught redhanded squirm on that video.

Yeah but to what actual effect to them or their business? They're big boys and girls, they can take a hit.

FrancieBrady · 09-07-2019 11:24am

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah but to what actual effect to them or their business?

There will be zilch effect on their business if the sitting government don't act.

They're big boys and girls, they can take a hit.

As pointed out by the poster who posted their profit figures, they have the capacity to take a massive hit alright...at yours and my expense.

meeeeh · 09-07-2019 11:35am

Tell me how wrote: »

Maybe. But let's make this the start of a conversation.

If the following is true; industry claims of fraudulent activity, which are used to justify increased premiums for companies whose profits have increased dramatically, are vastly exaggerated, then it is indefensible, even if there are people making false claims (which there unquestionably is).

It was also exaggerated claims and higg settlements. Yesterdays report shows awards st lower courts increased again in 2018. Liability insurance made loss in 2017. People love to produce how much insurance profits increased in percentage points but it's after a years of loses or minimum profits. I'm not defending insurance companies but if you think Pierce Doherty grandstanding brought us any closer to resolution you are deluded.

Tell me how · 09-07-2019 11:41am

meeeeh wrote: »

It was also exaggerated claims and higg settlements. Yesterdays report shows awards st lower courts increased again in 2018. Liability insurance made loss in 2017. People love to produce how much insurance profits increased in percentage points but it's after a years of loses or minimum profits. I'm not defending insurance companies but if you think Pierce Doherty grandstanding brought us any closer to resolution you are deluded.

I think the lady doth protest too much.

All summer we have heard stories of the impact increased insurance costs have had on businesses, festivals and so on.

If Pierce Doherty, or anyone else is elected to a role and then carries out the duties of that role as he did here then we shouldn't see him as grandstanding but demand others do so in the same way and that he and others do so continuously.

What was interesting for me was the complete absence of argument from the insurance companies representatives to halt his 'grandstanding'. They had no comeback.

If they are paying out on fraudulent claims, as seems to be the case, then they are saying it is ok because the market will tolerate it. That is very difficult for people who cannot afford insurance increases.

STB. · 09-07-2019 11:44am

meeeeh wrote: »

It was also exaggerated claims and higg settlements. Yesterdays report shows awards st lower courts increased again in 2018. Liability insurance made loss in 2017. People love to produce how much insurance profits increased in percentage points but it's after a years of loses or minimum profits. I'm not defending insurance companies but if you think Pierce Doherty grandstanding brought us any closer to resolution you are deluded.

Well you sound like you are consistently on this thread with your look over there responses.

Motor cover for private and commercial motorists insurers combined profits of €125m, while average motor insurance premiums increased by 70% between 2013 and 2016.

Household and commercial property insurance provided combined profits of €84.3m to the 17 firms.

The 17 domestic non-life insurers made combined profits of €227m in 2017, up from €16m in 2016.

These are all published figures.

Pearse Doherty questions Insurance CEOs

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