Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

While the automatic life sentence does not apply to children, this quote from Conor Gallagher's detailed Irish Times article may go some way to explaining the lack of a guilty plea:
"Guilty pleas are extremely rare in murder trials as the offence carries an automatic life sentence on conviction no matter what approach the accused takes. As there is no sentencing discount for a guilty plea, defendants reason they have little to lose by taking a chance on a trial. Even if the evidence is damning they may be acquitted on a technicality or because of a deficiency in the investigation."
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Seathrun66 wrote: »

I believe they were too. The Gardai will have been uber-wary about getting anything wrong. Won't stop the defence lawyers on appeal from disputing it though. Particularly with the psychiatric evidence of PTSD meaning Boy B may not have been of a fit mind to answer questions. He was there from the assault going by his interview with the doctor but whether he stayed for the murder is unclear.

Easy for us all to say we'd have intervened. As a 13 year old I was pretty scared of some guys my age and older. I'd hate though to think I wouldn't try to stop a murder.

And even if you couldn’t stop the murder the decent thing to do is to run home and blurt it all out to your parents who’d then do the decent thing and inform the police.
But when you probably took part in the planning by supplying the blue sticky tape, called for her with this “nice story” about Boy A wanting to meet her and leading her to her death while you watched it all and afterwards lied through your teeth about it for ages while the search went on and again and again after being arrested you might not have been that scared.

anewme wrote: »

Boy B's Father was a disrespectful see you next Tuesday, slamming doors, cursing, shouting abuse in the Court when he did not get his way.

Ana's parents remained dignified in the face of horrible evidence.

But what kind of responsible parent skulks off to bed when their son is interviewed at their own front door by Gardai as being the last so see a young girl alive?

Boy B is particularly evil, manipulative sly dog who thought hed get away with it. A junior Graham Dwyer, praying on the vulnerable.

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

And when the Gardai came to the house there was no indication then that it was anything other than a check on a girl who'd not come home for a few hours. He left it to his wife and kid. It was not a murder investigation then.

Suckit wrote: »

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The father of one of the boys called everyone in the courtroom (inc anna's parents) 'scumbags' when the verdict was read.

They don't sound like nice people.

I think he was just referring to the Gardaí.

He was obviously convinced by his sons story.

Same as when he went to bed when his son was interviewed at the front door for an hour by Gardai as being the last to see a missing girl alive.

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I suppose working parents, busy lives. Most parents aren't going to think they are raising potential murderers.

Kids spend a lot of time on their phones these days. That would hardly been seen as strange or deviant.

No. I suppose not. But then again - Most parents should take an interest in their children's lives. Likes, dislikes, favourite programmes, who their friends are. Normal ****. No matter how busy their lives are. So I don't buy that. And I would most certainly ask to see their phones from time to time. But then, that's me.

anewme wrote: »

Same as when he went to bed when his son was interviewed at the front door for an hour by Gardai as being the last to see a missing girl alive.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Which story? There were quite a few.

I'm not defending the man, I'm just saying how I read it. He was attacking the Gardaí.


He came home from wherever and saw the Garda at his door, and wasn't at all interested. Same son's address was found by Gardaí by looking up the PULSE system.

Don't know anything about the man, but it seems to me that maybe he was one of the first people that his son realised he was smarter then.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I don’t think you have a clue of the law.

I'm a lawyer.

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Were I his Dad and doubted his conviction I may have done the same myself. Undignified and it'd portray me in a bad light but I may not be able to compose myself were my own son to be convicted of something I felt he was innocent of.

Think I would be a whimpering mess on the floor tbh not screaming at people across the court
Ana's parents showed upmost respect for the jurors, judge and everyone but that guy showed absolute contempt
It certainly wasn't easy for the jury to come to a unanimous decision

Nobelium wrote: »

Like the Jamie Bulger murderers . . . . the bleeding hear liberals will insist these murdering satanic scum get out as soon as they are adults after playing PlayStation, x-box and table tennis in some comfy hotel like facility (At least one of the bulger murderers was having sex with his social workers in his cosy care home). Then the state will spend a fortune setting them up with a nice new identity, accommodation and jobs somewhere.

It's a fairly emotive topic but people need to stop comparing this case, in Ireland, with a case in the UK. Different jurisdictions, 26 years apart.

Hal3000 wrote: »

Probably getting counseling as we speak.

I don't have an issue with that. Hopefully it brings them round to admitting what they did. That's real counseling.

Otherwise they are just playing games.

Never read or listened to the details of the last moments of her life, but read a bit about who Ana was as a person. Talented and sensitive were two word that came to mind. A girl that probably would have flourished once outside the toxic school environment. But also could not escape how sad and lonely she seemed to be, and how much she craved friendship.
A conversation needs to be had about how tough it is for these kids, the relentless bullying that can turn violent, the mental anguish a lot of them seem to be going through.
What a horrible thing those boys did to a girl so full of potential and her family.

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I'll just post this again...

"Any person who aids, abets, counsels or procures the commission of an indictable offence shall be liable to be indicted, tried and punished as a principal offender."

He gave the other boy the cord to choke her with. He lured her there. He watched while she was sexually assaulted and beaten to death.

I would say he did even more.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

petrolcan wrote: »

Indeed. I did and I've no doubt that many of the posters in this thread did too.

Criminal records all round

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely. The vast majority of kids I grew up with did not engage in violent bullying. If done by adults it's called "assault" and carries a criminal conviction. It should be no different when done among teenagers.

What about the older boy who propositioned Ana for sex and slapped her on the bum? A fecking caution! !! Or the 3rd year lad who harrassing her on her youtube channel with sexual comments when she was in 6th class? 6th class.! And he would have known it too because he knew enough about her to make fun of her for having a "fake" mum and Dad . It's deeply disturbing that much of the bullying this child suffered had a sexual component .

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If my child did something like this I wouldn't be hurling abuse at the victim's family and the jury in court. Boy B's family are utter scum. This isn't about holding all parents responsible for all of their childrens' bad behaviour, but this particular crowd come across as unhinged, dysfunctional scrotes.

Abuse at the Gardai & Jury according to the news reports. Not the victim's family. Stick to the facts here.

anewme wrote: »

In what way, murdering an innocent and lying about it?

In any way given the amount of swearing and anger from their posts.

jmayo wrote: »

From humberlog earlier



Very weird alright.
I mean how many of us wouldn't scamper off to bed when our 13 year old kid is being chatted to at the door by Gardai.
And especially so when they have already been talking for an hour.

One might even leap to the conclusion he has nothing, but contempt for the Gardai.
Oh and couldn't give shyte when a young girl around the same age as his son and in the same school is missing.

Even the fact they didnt ask the Gardai in is weird, clearly a cover up.

I recall a rumour at the time it happened that one of the fathers dads roughed him to to make it look lile he was attacked by men, seemed odd to me at time but might be possible given this and calling Gardai scumbags