Home heating system replacement suggestions and cost

JethroC · 29-05-2019 1:53pm #1

I'm in the process of buying a small 3 bed house at the moment.

Had a structural engineer carry out an inspection and one of the suggestions was to replace the heating system which is quite old. Every room has a single rad so 7 in total, hot tank is in one of the small bedrooms and there's also an electric immersion switch on a wall upstairs so guessing the water can be heated by electricity although the system is mainly heated using a back boiler.

It seems that the pipe work would also need to go as the report mentions that they are and older skinnier type of pipe going to the rads.

What are my options for getting the whole system replaced?

There is no gas in the house or oil tank out the back. I think I'd generally prefer to go electric anyway even though I'm aware it will cost a bit more to run day to day.

I was considering an electric combi boiler if getting in new wet system or something like a Joule Therm / Lucht LHZ electric radiator in every room if completely binning the wet system. I've priced these electric rads at approx. €3500-€4000 for the whole house inc. installation.

If the wet system was to go I'd like to get the back boiler drained and disconnected along with removing the hot water tank as there'd be no use for it.
There is an electric shower in the bathroom so I'd only need hot water for the bathroom and kitchen sink.
Would an inline water heater be a good idea for this?

How much would a new heating system cost to get installed if going down the electric combi boiler route (parts and labour)?

Also how much would it cost to get the old heating system decommissioned - rads removed, back boiler drained and disconnected, hot tank removal + installation of inline water heater(s)?

Ball park figures if possible as I know there'll always be variables in every situation

antoinolachtnai · 01-06-2019 1:26pm

I can tell you are only learning about heating systems.

You are really starting this from the wrong direction. It really depends on the overall plan for the house. It's not something you can consider in isolation.

I would ask the structural engineer for his view.

In general, the option of direct electrical heat is a poor option. There might be some special reason why it would be a good option in your case, but I doubt it.

The main thing is that you can't just look at the cost of the install, you have to look at the running cost as well. The Lucht rads and the like are not only quite expensive to buy (they're just electrical heaters; you can buy perfectly adequate electrical heaters in Power City for 50 euros) but they are expensive to run, because electricity is more expensive per kWh than other sources.

01-06-2019 10:23pm

Electric heating on domestic day rate is expensive. Roughly 17-19 cent per Kwh. Gas/Coal/wood pellet etc work out about 6-8 cent per Kwh.

However night rate electricity works out about 7.4-9 cent per Kwh. Which is around the same as coal/gas etc,

Storage heaters are a lot more efficient these days and with a night rate tariff could be a good option but I have no experience with them, a lot of people who knock them either don't have them or bad experience with ancient ones.

Heat pumps are a good option, for every 1 Kw in you can get between 2 out out for air to water pumps and for ground about 1 kw in and 4-5 Kw out. Much more efficient than storage heaters.

Well based systems can get for every 1 kw in can achieve up to 6 Kwh out, that's amazing, coupled with a Solar PV array could mean much cheaper bills especially when a feed-in-tariff become available this means that any excess you send to the grid in Summer can be bought back to run the pump in winter.

Insulation and air tightness are key. The better the insulation the less the heat pump has to run.

You can also check out wood stoves and wood pellet stoves, the price doesn't fluctuate as much as oil or gas.

Oil is currently around 700 Euro per 1000 Litres. Not cheap. We're on our 2nd tank since about October.

I'm in a current situation, need to upgrade the heating and add some form of electronic control.

We have a brilliant oil stove in the kitchen/dining area which also can heat the conservatory, it's an Effel 9 Kw, I think they're called Nestor now or something like that. Great heat and does not use a lot of oil, however we use it as space heating only when we don't need the heating on to heat the whole house. It can also heat radiators with a back boiler, it is fantastic and needs no maintenance and can be left on all day and night. However we need to upgrade the main heating, radiators etc.

Unfortunately the greatest issue for me is trying to find good installers and getting people to actually come out to give estimates etc. And trying to eliminate cowboys in another huge issue in Ireland , there are just far too many people to con and rip off and do a poor job !

JethroC · 04-06-2019 1:27pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I can tell you are only learning about heating systems.

You are really starting this from the wrong direction. It really depends on the overall plan for the house. It's not something you can consider in isolation.

I would ask the structural engineer for his view.

In general, the option of direct electrical heat is a poor option. There might be some special reason why it would be a good option in your case, but I doubt it.

The main thing is that you can't just look at the cost of the install, you have to look at the running cost as well. The Lucht rads and the like are not only quite expensive to buy (they're just electrical heaters; you can buy perfectly adequate electrical heaters in Power City for 50 euros) but they are expensive to run, because electricity is more expensive per kWh than other sources.

I am indeed new to heating systems and pretend to know nothing about them so any help here is appreciated.

The house is a small 3 bed around 80m.sq built c. 60 years. There is sufficient insulation in the attic and the walls to the front and back of the house look to have been pumped with cavity fill insulation also.

I will be getting the house completely re-wired so will look to get more insulation installed under the floor boards at this time.

I'd rather not go for fossil fuel heating if possible (just my own preference) and would prefer renewable energy where available. I'm coming from an apartment with storage heaters so understand they can be quite expensive to run. If going down the electrical route, from reading over many posts here I see that the Dimplex Quantum units have been mentioned so it would be something I will consider.

It will be only me living in the house 90% of the time and with being out to work from 7.30 - 19.30 every week day the demand for heating shouldn't be too great. Maybe a half hour in the morning and 3 hours in the evening with heating needed for maybe 6 or 7 hours a day at weekends in the winter.

If I was to get the wet system decommissioned, any idea of a price?

I'd like to still have the option of the open fire but use it as a last resort where it would normally be sealed with a chimney balloon.

antoinolachtnai · 04-06-2019 1:38pm

Decommissioning the wet system is a handyman job. You need someone to drain the system and then get rid of all the bits. It should not be very expensive. The heavy copper pipes which should lead from the back boiler should be worth something for scrap. The back boiler might be a problem. You need to make sure this is left in a safe state after the back boiler is removed. There are varying opinions about the best way to do this, and you need to get advice from someone who will stand over their advice. If the hot water cylinder isn't lined with foam, you'd probably be as well replacing it at the same time as pulling the plumbing out.

Since the house is small and at least somewhat insulated and you don't really want to put in oil, I would suggest you consider an air-to-air heat pump. There are some threads about this if you search. This is well proven technology in shops and offices, but it can sometimes be difficult to get anybody to install them in a residential setting.

You could get the Quantum Dimplex, but it doesn't sound like storage heating matches your lifestyle all that well. It certainly would work, but it's not exactly cheap.

JethroC · 04-06-2019 1:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Electric heating on domestic day rate is expensive. Roughly 17-19 cent per Kwh. Gas/Coal/wood pellet etc work out about 6-8 cent per Kwh.

However night rate electricity works out about 7.4-9 cent per Kwh. Which is around the same as coal/gas etc,

Storage heaters are a lot more efficient these days and with a night rate tariff could be a good option but I have no experience with them, a lot of people who knock them either don't have them or bad experience with ancient ones.

Heat pumps are a good option, for every 1 Kw in you can get between 2 out out for air to water pumps and for ground about 1 kw in and 4-5 Kw out. Much more efficient than storage heaters.

Well based systems can get for every 1 kw in can achieve up to 6 Kwh out, that's amazing, coupled with a Solar PV array could mean much cheaper bills especially when a feed-in-tariff become available this means that any excess you send to the grid in Summer can be bought back to run the pump in winter.

Insulation and air tightness are key. The better the insulation the less the heat pump has to run.

You can also check out wood stoves and wood pellet stoves, the price doesn't fluctuate as much as oil or gas.

Oil is currently around 700 Euro per 1000 Litres. Not cheap. We're on our 2nd tank since about October.

I'm in a current situation, need to upgrade the heating and add some form of electronic control.

We have a brilliant oil stove in the kitchen/dining area which also can heat the conservatory, it's an Effel 9 Kw, I think they're called Nestor now or something like that. Great heat and does not use a lot of oil, however we use it as space heating only when we don't need the heating on to heat the whole house. It can also heat radiators with a back boiler, it is fantastic and needs no maintenance and can be left on all day and night. However we need to upgrade the main heating, radiators etc.

Unfortunately the greatest issue for me is trying to find good installers and getting people to actually come out to give estimates etc. And trying to eliminate cowboys in another huge issue in Ireland , there are just far too many people to con and rip off and do a poor job !

I understand the pain in the running of storage heaters. My apartment is generally cold in the evenings but nice and toasty when I wake up in the morning and there is no way to control that.

If going down the electric route I would consider the Dimplex Quatum for the living room and possibly the Lucht heaters for the bedrooms / bathroom where they wouldn't be needed as much.
I'll also have a look at the a heat pump and I believe there is a grant available for these too. Any idea if these can be smart controlled by google home / alexa or an app on your phone?

I'm concerned as well about installers. I'll need my house to be habitable around 2 months max after getting the keys so need the electrics and heating sorted by then. Would rather not have to call 20 different people to do the one job. Have you tried this site https://www.localheroes.ie/
No affiliation, just heard it advertised on the radio a while back

antoinolachtnai · 04-06-2019 8:51pm

There are control bits and bobs available for all these things, some built in, some as accessories. It's really part of finding what you need.

Electric heaters are electric heaters really. There are plenty of very inexpensive options if you get down to your local electrical wholesalers or poke around on websites.

There is nothing here that would take a long time to do. Though as I said, you do need expert advice about what to do with the back boiler.

The best way to get a tradesman is through a word of mouth recommendation. Conversely, tradesmen prefer to get business through people they know.

04-06-2019 11:45pm

JethroC wrote: »

I understand the pain in the running of storage heaters. My apartment is generally cold in the evenings but nice and toasty when I wake up in the morning and there is no way to control that.

If going down the electric route I would consider the Dimplex Quatum for the living room and possibly the Lucht heaters for the bedrooms / bathroom where they wouldn't be needed as much.
I'll also have a look at the a heat pump and I believe there is a grant available for these too. Any idea if these can be smart controlled by google home / alexa or an app on your phone?

I'm concerned as well about installers. I'll need my house to be habitable around 2 months max after getting the keys so need the electrics and heating sorted by then. Would rather not have to call 20 different people to do the one job. Have you tried this site https://www.localheroes.ie/
No affiliation, just heard it advertised on the radio a while back

Modern heaters I believe are very controllable and are much better at holding the heat until needed.

How modern are yours ?

Some people I have known with storage heaters are not very well able to use the controls and seem to have too much heat coming out during the day, but these are older heaters.

My Partner's Parents in Germany have modern heaters and they seem to be happy with them, they have a 14 Kw/p Solar PV array on the roof so any excess goes to the grid which they get paid for then they buy back the electricity in winter, it works great.

Heat pumps would be great but they are not suited to a lot of older homes.

I am however looking into heat pumps because we really need to get the heating upgraded and we don't have a very efficient house. But either way , exploring all options.

antoinolachtnai · 04-06-2019 11:59pm

An air-to-water heat pump won't suit a lot of homes, but I would say an air-to-air heat pump may suit small homes which are well enough insulated that an oil tank and boiler (cost 3,500 excluding radiators, and pipes) is not worthwhile. Air-to-air is not that practical or economic for larger homes, and it obviously won't deliver much in the way of hot water.

The basic problem with storage heaters is that the heat output is very low. The biggest quantum only throws out 1.5kW from storage (though it will give you an extra bit on boost, but you pay full daytime price for that). Even if you have 5 of them, it will only give you 7.5kW. When you compare it to the 20 kW or 30 kW that an oil boiler will throw out, it's really not a lot. And 5 of these storage heaters will cost you a fair chunk of change. For sure, you can get it to work providing there isn't too much heat loss.

An air-to-air heat pump will give you more kWs for less capital cost compared to the storage heaters. It will also cost the same or maybe even less to run per kWh compared to the storage heaters.

Of course it depends on your situation and what suits the lifestyle.

05-06-2019 12:17am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

An air-to-water heat pump won't suit a lot of homes, but I would say an air-to-air heat pump may suit small homes which are well enough insulated that an oil tank and boiler (cost 3,500 excluding radiators, and pipes) is not worthwhile. Air-to-air is not that practical or economic for larger homes, and it obviously won't deliver much in the way of hot water.

The basic problem with storage heaters is that the heat output is very low. The biggest quantum only throws out 1.5kW from storage (though it will give you an extra bit on boost, but you pay full daytime price for that). Even if you have 5 of them, it will only give you 7.5kW. When you compare it to the 20 kW or 30 kW that an oil boiler will throw out, it's really not a lot. And 5 of these storage heaters will cost you a fair chunk of change. For sure, you can get it to work providing there isn't too much heat loss.

An air-to-air heat pump will give you more kWs for less capital cost compared to the storage heaters. It will also cost the same or maybe even less to run per kWh compared to the storage heaters.

Of course it depends on your situation and what suits the lifestyle.

There's no way modern storage heaters give out 1.5 Kw heat is there ? I've felt the heat of them in Germany , heating pretty decent sized rooms without issue.

Most heat pumps run under floor heating, but there are more now in retrofits that heat radiators just like the oil boiler, some heat pumps are very efficient now with cop of up to 6:1 for well based systems.

Air to Air is only about 2:1 and Geo about 4-4.5:1

ercork · 05-06-2019 12:49am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

An air-to-water heat pump won't suit a lot of homes, but I would say an air-to-air heat pump may suit small homes which are well enough insulated that an oil tank and boiler (cost 3,500 excluding radiators, and pipes) is not worthwhile. Air-to-air is not that practical or economic for larger homes, and it obviously won't deliver much in the way of hot water.

The basic problem with storage heaters is that the heat output is very low. The biggest quantum only throws out 1.5kW from storage (though it will give you an extra bit on boost, but you pay full daytime price for that). Even if you have 5 of them, it will only give you 7.5kW. When you compare it to the 20 kW or 30 kW that an oil boiler will throw out, it's really not a lot. And 5 of these storage heaters will cost you a fair chunk of change. For sure, you can get it to work providing there isn't too much heat loss.

An air-to-air heat pump will give you more kWs for less capital cost compared to the storage heaters. It will also cost the same or maybe even less to run per kWh compared to the storage heaters.

Of course it depends on your situation and what suits the lifestyle.

+1 for air to air heat pumps. Air to water systems are very expensive and difficult to retrofit to existing houses. I got an air to air system installed this time last year to replace a combination of storage heaters and Lucht rads. It cost under 2000 to install and my bills for last winter were way down on the previous winter. I used it a lot more too so the level of comfort in the house was great.

I wouldn't rip out a modern efficient GFCH system and replace it with an air to air system but if you are stuck with electricity they really are the way to go. They're still quite rare so it can be difficult to find installers. I found a few last year when I was researching so I can send the details to you in a DM if you'd like.

My particular one is WiFi enabled so you can control it with your phone from anywhere.

05-06-2019 1:08am

Air to air is fine for modern efficient air tight homes but 99% of people don't live in such homes and air to air have the poorest efficiency of all heat pumps especially when it's very cold so for those in less efficient homes if it's got to be heat pump it will most likely be water based systems, more expensive but a lot more efficient.

antoinolachtnai · 05-06-2019 8:44am

First of all, is it necessarily the case that an air-to-air is vastly more efficient? Air to air heat pumps have respectable enough COPs.

I imagine it isn't just about efficiency for the OP. It's about having an effective, reliable source of heat that fits their lifestyle, and the capital cost is an issue too.

The OP really needs to look at it in the round, in terms of what he/she can afford, and what suits the building.

05-06-2019 8:54am

air to air/ air to water isn’t nearly efficient as ground or well sourced systems. As temps drop air to air becomes less efficient however, as I said , if the house is very efficient and air tight the air to air system could cost very little to run especially with night rate electricity.

antoinolachtnai · 05-06-2019 8:57am

That is for sure.

The same goes for air-to-water systems of course, which i suppose is what I thought you were referring to.

We hear less and less about ground source systems being installed in domestic settings.

ercork · 05-06-2019 1:14pm

My house was built in 2004 and has insulation and windows from that era. It's not ancient but it certainly isn't in the top 1% of houses in the country. The air/air heat pump does a fine job and came with very low installation cost (< €2000). I got quoted about €14,000 to retrofit an air/water system before that. I can only imagine how much it would cost to retrofit a ground source system and as I do not have any water on my property a water source system was not even an option.

Regarding efficiencies the SEAI regard air/air and air/water similarly with SPFs in the region 2.5-4.2 (see bottom of p2 in link below). The manufacturer of my system claims an SCOP of 5 - are SCOP and SPF the same thing? They also claim that this efficiency is maintained down to -10 degrees C.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjx0oGIpNLiAhX0XRUIHWCuD8cQFjAAegQIBRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seai.ie%2Fresources%2Fpublications%2FDomestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2G5roFer8Zv2j2eUCQLv2h

In general if a house has an existing wet heating system I would say that installing a gas condenser boiler is probably the cheapest and easiest solution. Oil would also be good but would cost a bit more to run and would require a storage tank and periodic refills. If neither of these are possible and you are stuck with electricity then an air/air heat pump is definitely worth looking at. Bear in mind that they don't produce any hot water so you will need an immersion heater or something else on that front.

05-06-2019 4:22pm

6:1 Cop is the system I'm looking into , using existing well, efficiency might be less depending on installation, no doubt it will be expensive and of course the existing heating, rads, plumbing needs to be upgraded.

How does air to air work , how do you distribute the heat around the house ?

Oil is not cheap, 700 per tank which goes up and down but the trend is up. We're on our 2nd fill and still need it even though it's Summer.

Cheapest would be to upgrade radiators, plumbing, install electronic controls but long term what's the cost of Oil going to be , if we could at least half our bills with HP that would be something then the option is always there in the future to install solar PV.

It might not work out quite as cheap as half our current bill to run but we would have heat all the time instead of turning it on a few hours in the morning and evening and a bit more at the weekend. We'd get more for less. + I already have night rate electricity + with the well system the efficiency would be good all year around, not so with A2A or A2W which needs electric heater to boost the heat and to defrost.

monseiur · 05-06-2019 4:44pm

Based partly on the age of your house I think you'd be mad to go all electric for heating etc. You would need double the no. of electric heaters to give sufficient heat unless you fit triple glazed windows & external doors, internally dry line ''outside'' walls with 80mm insulated plasterboard, upgrade attic insulation to at least 500mm, replace all floors with concrete screed over 100mm PIR insulation, seal all chimney opes. etc etc. cost €25k to €35k and you will still have high running costs.
To get the best bang for your euro both upfront capital outlay and long term running costs I'd advise you to replace the whole existing heating system, pipes, rads & all with a good quality condensing oil boiler, zoned to suit with stats etc. etc. & insulated copper cylinder. The boiler will heat both rads & cylinder (domestic hot water) in winter and cylinder only in summer. Fit immersion as a back up. All this can be controlled remotely using your mobile phone.
Keep your open fire in sitting room and remove back boiler.
You may qualify for grant assistance from SAEI for this work + for attic & wall insulation - some of the professionals on here may be able to advise you on this.

ercork · 05-06-2019 7:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

6:1 Cop is the system I'm looking into , using existing well, efficiency might be less depending on installation, no doubt it will be expensive and of course the existing heating, rads, plumbing needs to be upgraded.

How does air to air work , how do you distribute the heat around the house ?

Oil is not cheap, 700 per tank which goes up and down but the trend is up. We're on our 2nd fill and still need it even though it's Summer.

Cheapest would be to upgrade radiators, plumbing, install electronic controls but long term what's the cost of Oil going to be , if we could at least half our bills with HP that would be something then the option is always there in the future to install solar PV.

It might not work out quite as cheap as half our current bill to run but we would have heat all the time instead of turning it on a few hours in the morning and evening and a bit more at the weekend. We'd get more for less. + I already have night rate electricity + with the well system the efficiency would be good all year around, not so with A2A or A2W which needs electric heater to boost the heat and to defrost.

Ai to air is basically an air conditioner. The one they installed for me is a Mitsubishi MSZ-LN. Other installers I spoke with were installing units by LG and Daikin and some other manufacturers whose names I can't remember now. My house is a small two bed terraced house (70 m2). The downstairs is mostly open plan so that one unit keeps it all warm. I usually leave the stairs door open so the upstairs gets heated by the rising air. It wouldn't be as warm as the downstairs but I like it that way. I held on to the two panel heaters in the bedrooms just in case but didn't have any cause to use them over the winter as it turned out.

If your house is larger or less open plan that set up might not work so well. I know you can get multi split systems with several indoor units running off one outdoor unit but they probably cost a fair bit more. Or you could just get two heat pumps - at approx 1700 each that's still reasonable.

0lddog · 06-06-2019 11:51am

One of the houses that I have to look after has similar arrangement to ercork. By all accounts it is very satisfactory. One of the crew that did the install has a similar arrangement (lol

) and he too was very happy.

Guess it would work well too in larger houses with MHRV and good BER....using the MHRV to distribute heat around the building

Larger houses with poor BER and no MHRV would be best approached with two or more small units. If space for the outdoor units is an issue then multisplit may be the way to go but they are generally less efficient than the simple split units.

@ ML unit in use in my case is a Mitsi MSZ-LN35VGHZ. Some basic specs for it are buried in http://climacomeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Powerful-heating-2018-105-122.pdf

( The unit that was put in came with a handheld controller and WiFi control .... as standard

)

JethroC · 06-06-2019 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Modern heaters I believe are very controllable and are much better at holding the heat until needed.

How modern are yours ?

Mine aren't very modern. They're the large beige units and I reckon they've been there around 20 years. They have the basic input/output controls on them and not much else.

I wouldn't have the money at present for a solar system esp. after purchasing a house on my own but it's certainly something I'd consider for the future.

My concern in general and not just with heat pumps is that the windows are single glazed. Again, not something I can afford to replace straight away but it's next on my list. I do plan to get heavy curtains which hopefully should help somewhat in the evenings.

JethroC · 06-06-2019 1:37pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

First of all, is it necessarily the case that an air-to-air is vastly more efficient? Air to air heat pumps have respectable enough COPs.

I imagine it isn't just about efficiency for the OP. It's about having an effective, reliable source of heat that fits their lifestyle, and the capital cost is an issue too.

The OP really needs to look at it in the round, in terms of what he/she can afford, and what suits the building.

For the time being yes, I'm generally only concerned about having a reliable source of heat. I can look at efficiency further down the road.

I have approx. €15k to get all electrics and heating replaced and fitted inc. water heating for the bathroom and kitchen sink which is why I mentioned inline water heaters for that purpose.

Internal Insulation (aside from the windows in their current state) is most likely best way to save on heating bills regardless what heating system is installed. For the time being there will be no dry lining or external insulation, just cavity fill insulation to the front and back, insulation in the attic and when the electrics are being done I can insulate under the floor boards.

JethroC · 06-06-2019 1:39pm

ercork wrote: »

I wouldn't rip out a modern efficient GFCH system and replace it with an air to air system but if you are stuck with electricity they really are the way to go. They're still quite rare so it can be difficult to find installers. I found a few last year when I was researching so I can send the details to you in a DM if you'd like.

My particular one is WiFi enabled so you can control it with your phone from anywhere.

Could you send me those details please ercork? If going down that route I'd like something that is smart enabled! Thanks

JethroC · 06-06-2019 1:46pm

monseiur wrote: »

Based partly on the age of your house I think you'd be mad to go all electric for heating etc. You would need double the no. of electric heaters to give sufficient heat unless you fit triple glazed windows & external doors, internally dry line ''outside'' walls with 80mm insulated plasterboard, upgrade attic insulation to at least 500mm, replace all floors with concrete screed over 100mm PIR insulation, seal all chimney opes. etc etc. cost €25k to €35k and you will still have high running costs.
To get the best bang for your euro both upfront capital outlay and long term running costs I'd advise you to replace the whole existing heating system, pipes, rads & all with a good quality condensing oil boiler, zoned to suit with stats etc. etc. & insulated copper cylinder. The boiler will heat both rads & cylinder (domestic hot water) in winter and cylinder only in summer. Fit immersion as a back up. All this can be controlled remotely using your mobile phone.
Keep your open fire in sitting room and remove back boiler.
You may qualify for grant assistance from SAEI for this work + for attic & wall insulation - some of the professionals on here may be able to advise you on this.

Thanks for the advise but the house is terraced with no access to the back garden from a lane etc. so oil would be a pain, aside from that I'd prefer (if possible) to not use fossil fuels. so some form of electric heating will be required

JethroC · 06-06-2019 1:49pm

0lddog wrote: »

One of the houses that I have to look after has similar arrangement to ercork. By all accounts it is very satisfactory. One of the crew that did the install has a similar arrangement (lol ) and he too was very happy.

Guess it would work well too in larger houses with MHRV and good BER....using the MHRV to distribute heat around the building

Larger houses with poor BER and no MHRV would be best approached with two or more small units. If space for the outdoor units is an issue then multisplit may be the way to go but they are generally less efficient than the simple split units.

@ ML unit in use in my case is a Mitsi MSZ-LN40VGHZ. Some basic specs for it are buried in http://climacomeng.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Powerful-heating-2018-105-122.pdf

( The unit that was put in came with a handheld controller and WiFi control .... as standard )

0lddog, do you have any information on the installers of this system?
I researched the air to air pumps online in the last few days and noticed that as you say, one outdoor unit can service 4 or 5 smaller indoor units.
I'd be interested in the option of the handheld controller + wifi control

ercork · 06-06-2019 2:04pm

JethroC wrote: »

Could you send me those details please ercork? If going down that route I'd like something that is smart enabled! Thanks

The unit I have is the same as the one in the link in Olddog's post above. It has both a handheld remote control and a WiFi control option. I will dig out the quotes from the various installers and message them to you later this evening.

Boardnashea · 06-06-2019 2:11pm

Your local Credit Union may be offering loans for this type of work in association with SEAI and REIL. 35% grant for at least two improvements. Can include insulations, A2A pump, new windows, etc.

06-06-2019 2:26pm

JethroC wrote: »

Mine aren't very modern. They're the large beige units and I reckon they've been there around 20 years. They have the basic input/output controls on them and not much else.

I wouldn't have the money at present for a solar system esp. after purchasing a house on my own but it's certainly something I'd consider for the future.

My concern in general and not just with heat pumps is that the windows are single glazed. Again, not something I can afford to replace straight away but it's next on my list. I do plan to get heavy curtains which hopefully should help somewhat in the evenings.

My Partner's Parents have new storage heaters in Germany and they're vastly better. They have about 14 Kw/p solar pv on the roof and export all the excess in the warmer months and buy it back in the colder months and it works well, of course if they had a heat pump it would save them a lot more but they produce more than enough.

Unfortunately we are as always years behind and still do not have a feed-in-tariff system so anything we send to the grid goes there for free to the energy companies.

The other sad reality is that we're only allowed 5.5 Kw into the grid in Ireland, I don't think there's a limit in Germany but certainly 14 kwp is almost 3 times what we are allowed into the grid and it makes a massive difference, of course you can install as much solar PV as you want but only 5.5 kw can go to the grid at any one time meaning any other excess has to be dumped.

The beauty of the solar pv on a Sunny Winters day is that you can have free heat and it doesn't matter what kind of electric heating you have, fan heater or boost function on the storage heaters, it's free.

Windows would be a good place to start alright, triple glaze but it's hard to get quality in Ireland and even harder to get quality installers to do a quality fit.

New storage heaters are not cheap so definitely look at the heat pumps, even air to air sounds like it would be more efficient.

Kash · 10-01-2021 12:59pm

ercork wrote: »

They're still quite rare so it can be difficult to find installers. I found a few last year when I was researching so I can send the details to you in a DM if you'd like.

My particular one is WiFi enabled so you can control it with your phone from anywhere.

0lddog wrote: »

One of the houses that I have to look after has similar arrangement to ercork. By all accounts it is very satisfactory. One of the crew that did the install has a similar arrangement (lol ) and he too was very happy.

I am trying to find a reputable installer of an air to air heat pump - if either of you would be able to DM me some details/recommendations, I would really appreciate!

Peleus · 28-10-2021 11:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110367807#Comment_110367807

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110368925#Comment_110368925

I am also looking for a reputable installer of Air-to-Air Heat Pumps in Ireland. If you guys could DM me any recommendations you have, it'd be much appreciated too. Thanks!

Home heating system replacement suggestions and cost

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