Struggling with 12 year old daughter

Ruby31 · 18-04-2019 7:59am #1

I'm so fed up with my daughter. She's defiant in every aspect of her life, but school holidays just bring things to a head.

She goes from bed, to couch, back to bed. Teeth not brushed most mornings & nights, no showers, not bothering to meet friends, but would rather sit watching crap on tv.

I have a younger child who's in camps this week & next. I cannot get my daughter out of bed without a massive row, so I've been leaving her in bed while I drop & collect him. Then afternoons are a bundle of fun. She thinks she owns the tv, so there's endless rows between her & her brother over what to watch. Weather's supposed to be good today, so I'll bring him off to a playground, but sure that just suits her down to the ground.

I don't do her clothes-washing anymore (cue abuse from her when she can't find anything clean to wear), I don't clean her room & it is a TIP.

I find I don't enjoy her company at all anymore, infact, I resent when she's around. She really knows how to push my buttons and it seems it's become her aim in life to just wreck my head as much as she can.

She tells me she loves me all the time. In anger, I've told her if she loves me, then I'd hate to see how she'd treat someone she dislikes.

I've tried to suss out how other parents with kids of similar age are coping, but there doesn't seem to be any major issues! Maybe they're lying??!

I'm at the end of my tether. My husband is fed up of her too and we're already discussing what to do with her over the summer holidays. We've decided not to go on a holiday this year as she ruined our trip abroad last year with her strops. So the plan is to send her to the gaeltacht. I know she will hit the roof though!

Anyone else going through similar??

Tell me how · 18-04-2019 8:48am

Sounds like you view her as and expect her to behave as an adult.
She's still a child and will be for 4 more years.

I suspect what you've said here, in terms of enjoying her company you've also said or indicated to her and that must be difficult for her.

She may be entering puberty and needs support and advice, not admonishing.

Also, I do not think it is normal for any 12 year old in a loving house to have to take care of washing their own clothes.

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 8:56am

This post made me really sad. Reminded me of the way my parents used to treat me, as if I were the worst person in the world because I didn't live up to their idea of what I was supposed to be like.

It sounds like she's depressed with the no showers and sitting around all day. I'd be looking into that and seeing if there's any way of getting her to a therapist, maybe.

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 9:00am

Tell me how wrote: »

Sounds like you view get as and expect her to behave as an adult.
She's still a child and will be for 4 more years.

I suspect what you've said here, in terms of enjoying her company you've also said or indicated to her and that must be difficult for her.

She may be entering puberty and needs support and advice, not admonishing.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This post made me really sad. Reminded me of the way my parents used to treat me, as if I were the worst person in the world because I didn't live up to their idea of what I was supposed to be like.

It sounds like she's depressed with the no showers and sitting around all day. I'd be looking into that and seeing if there's any way of getting her to a therapist, maybe.

Judgmental much!?

One thing I'd say OP is that banishing her the Gaeltacht is probably a bit much. And while you might get a few weeks 'peace' you'll spend the entire time upset and feeling guilty.

She's still young and teenage years are horrible for children. I was a complete asshat as a teenager. I'm sure my parents had similar thoughts to you at times. You'll need compassion, resolve and patience. Puberty is just as much a time for children rejecting parents as parents consequently rejecting their children..

I'd tone down on the denigration mind you. They won't serve any purpose.

Hopefully things will get better for all of you in time.

Tell me how · 18-04-2019 9:01am

lawred2 wrote: »

Judgmental much!?

Oh, I'm sorry for having an opinion on something that someone posted on a public discussion board asking for an opinion on....

pc7 · 18-04-2019 9:08am

Could you try reach out to her, get your hubby to take son out. Sit down and tell her you miss her, what can you do to help, that you don't like fighting all the time. Maybe go do something together one on one? It does sound like she's struggling too, the not washing and that. Does she have many friends? Has this just started since she started secondary school (is she in first year?), is she nervous about starting? Maybe just try have a heart to heart. Its a tough age.

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 9:08am

OSI wrote: »

Any chance she's being bullied?

Actually yeah - hadn't even thought of that angle.

Loveinapril · 18-04-2019 9:13am

Wow, you really are having such a difficult time with her at the moment. Adolescence is kind of like toddlerhood in relation to development. They revert back to testing boundaries and pushing buttons. She probably doesn't even realise how she is impacting the whole house. Could you ask her to meet with you at a certain time/ day, without the other kids around and have an "adult" to adult chat. You could even do this while 'helping' her clean her room. You can make a dent in the mess together so it is not as daunting to her and then she can have the responsibility to maintain it. Just explain that you notice you are not getting on as well recently, she doesn't seem to be happy etc. Use examples of how she is not going out, keeping herself clean etc. Ask is there anything you can do to help. Try not to get into blaming her or giving out but come at it from the perspective of caring about her wellbeing and your relationship. Try let her do lots of the talking, coming up with solutions in how to stop the rows. Don't be afraid to say you don't know what to do or apologise for shouting at times. But you will have to agree on certain rules so try to get her to collaborate things like sharing the TV, on a cut off point in the day where she must be showered/ dressed by, etc. She is going through a lot regarding biological changes and brain development, not to mention hormonally. Have you thought about seeking outside help for yourself, your husband and your daughter? It may do no harm to meet with a child psychologist to get more of an insight into how best respond to her behaviours while still being able to have a positive relationship.

Sittingpretty · 18-04-2019 9:16am

Ruby31 wrote: »

I'm so fed up with my daughter. She's defiant in every aspect of her life, but school holidays just bring things to a head.

She goes from bed, to couch, back to bed. Teeth not brushed most mornings & nights, no showers, not bothering to meet friends, but would rather sit watching crap on tv.

I have a younger child who's in camps this week & next. I cannot get my daughter out of bed without a massive row, so I've been leaving her in bed while I drop & collect him. Then afternoons are a bundle of fun. She thinks she owns the tv, so there's endless rows between her & her brother over what to watch. Weather's supposed to be good today, so I'll bring him off to a playground, but sure that just suits her down to the ground.

I don't do her clothes-washing anymore (cue abuse from her when she can't find anything clean to wear), I don't clean her room & it is a TIP.

I find I don't enjoy her company at all anymore, infact, I resent when she's around. She really knows how to push my buttons and it seems it's become her aim in life to just wreck my head as much as she can.

She tells me she loves me all the time. In anger, I've told her if she loves me, then I'd hate to see how she'd treat someone she dislikes.

I've tried to suss out how other parents with kids of similar age are coping, but there doesn't seem to be any major issues! Maybe they're lying??!

I'm at the end of my tether. My husband is fed up of her too and we're already discussing what to do with her over the summer holidays. We've decided not to go on a holiday this year as she ruined our trip abroad last year with her strops. So the plan is to send her to the gaeltacht. I know she will hit the roof though!

Anyone else going through similar??

Who is in control here? You or her?

She does what she wants because you let her from what you’ve posted here anyways. It sounds like you would both benefit from some ground rules maybe.

Why is she not wanting to meet up with her friends? That’s a bit of a red flag for me esp over Easter hols I’d have thought most 12 year olds would want to spend as much time as possible with their friends. I’d suggest maybe trying to open the lines of communication with her to establish if there is a reason for her disinterest in participating with friends or in keeping herself clean etc. its vital that you as parents keep taking to her and let her know you are both there for her so she feels supported. The TV is yours, presumably you pay the bills so switch it off.

You might have to try bribery to keep the room clean, that’s fairly standard for a pre teen

I also have to agree on the clothes washing, I wouldn’t expect a 12 year old to maintain their own laundry. I would give her some responsibility and jobs around the house that being said.

For instance when I was 12, I cleaned the bathroom and hoovered the house on a weekly basis and as I liked to cook I made basic dinners for everyone maybe twice a week. I got pocket money at the weekends when my jobs were done.

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 9:20am

lawred2 wrote: »

Judgmental much!?

One thing I'd say OP is that banishing her the Gaeltacht is probably a bit much. And while you might get a few weeks 'peace' you'll spend the entire time upset and feeling guilty.

She's still young and teenage years are horrible for children. I was a complete asshat as a teenager. I'm sure my parents had similar thoughts to you at times. You'll need compassion, resolve and patience. Puberty is just as much a time for children rejecting parents as parents consequently rejecting their children..

I'd tone down on the denigration mind you. They won't serve any purpose.

Hopefully things will get better for all of you in time.

How is it judgemental? Sounds like the girl is having a bad time. Maybe being bullied, maybe depressed. And her own mother doesn't like her and doesn't want to be around her. That can create a cycle. You feel worthless and horrible, so act out even more, etc.

Wheety · 18-04-2019 9:26am

12 years old is a bit young to have responsibility of washing all her own clothes. Could you not tell her, only things in the laundry basket will be cleaned?

Can you do anything with her? Cinema maybe? Or watch a movie at home with her?

Is there anything she wants to do over the summer rather than sending her to somewhere you know she'll hate?

Tell me how · 18-04-2019 9:28am

OSI wrote: »

I know countless children that do/did their own laundry at that age. It's an invaluable life skill.

Of course it is, everyone has to learn somehow.

Being able to do it and having to do it are two different things though aren't they.

18-04-2019 9:29am

OP, I think that she’s looking for help. I’d take her to her GP and take it from there.

Bicycle · 18-04-2019 9:32am

It does sound as if your daughter is suffering from depression or some form of emotional trauma.

I've been there done that with teenagers and with teenagers with depression. Stroppy is normal. Argumentative is normal. But the lack of personal care is a big alarm signal.

She is telling you she loves you but you are pushing her away and putting conditions on your love for her. Parental love should be unconditional love.

You are further pushing her away/punishing her by sending her to the Gaeltacht.

It will be difficult but you need, somehow, to get her to talk to someone non-judgemental outside the family whom she can trust.

My Mind are a chain of qualified and good counselling services who are competitively priced and will talk to children. They also take self-referrals. Jigsaw is another adolescent mental health service that is free. But there are waiting lists.

Depression is another illness, just like cluster headaches or asthma or anything else. Its not something you can just sweep under the carpet. And its not something to be ashamed of.

Henry Ford III · 18-04-2019 9:32am

Limit the tv

lawred2 · 18-04-2019 9:33am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

How is it judgemental? Sounds like the girl is having a bad time. Maybe being bullied, maybe depressed. And her own mother doesn't like her and doesn't want to be around her. That can create a cycle. You feel worthless and horrible, so act out even more, etc.

Why didn't you say that then rather than the unhelpful

Reminded me of the way my parents used to treat me, as if I were the worst person in the world because I didn't live up to their idea of what I was supposed to be like.

Wabbit Ears · 18-04-2019 9:44am

The kid needs help and mommy needs to step up her game here.

Help her clean her room, Yes she should clean her room but she needs positive re-enforcement not tough love.
Wash her clothes and make sure she has clean clothes to encourage her to actually get dressed. Buy some new ones.
Stop being pissed off at her. Shes a kid. Kids need to feel loved and your frustration DOESNT HELP. So snap out of that and be the grownup here instead of both of you having a strop.
Give her a hug, Lie in bed with her for a while, Take the time to be there for her, even if she tries to push you away.

The kid is depressed. Bring her to a GP as she may need medication to help her get through this.

Or, you know, think shes just being a moody brat and get angry with her so she takes the only tragic route out she feels is available.

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 9:48am

lawred2 wrote: »

Why didn't you say that then rather than the unhelpful

Because that's coming from the perspective of a child whose parent is writing things like this. The dislike of the child is palpable. I'm not saying that being around a kid like this isn't draining and difficult, but there doesn't seem to be much or any attempt to think about the 'why' behind her actions/behaviour.

Ruby31 · 18-04-2019 10:46am

Thanks so much for all the replies. I'll try to answer as many of the questions as I can.

I used to clean her room. I used to wash her clothes. I brought her for a check-up to the GP & had bloods done. I spoke with 3 child & adolescent councelling clinics, so she's on waiting lists for each of them.

I suffered from depression from age 9 when my parents moved me to another school - it was closer to our house, no other reasons. I'm very aware of what it is to be depressed.

I stopped doing her washing, etc when I was being told on a regular basis by her that it was MY job. I tried to help her clean her room when she seemed exasperated by the amount of work involved. She then sat down & started leafing through a book, leaving me to do everything!

I call (BEG!) her time after time to PLEASE get out of bed and we'll go and do X,Y and Z - this included a trip to Dundrum to buy new clothes. She yells at me that she'll get up in FIVE minutes. When I try to calmly wake her again, I get told to shut up and go away!!

I should've said, the lack of hygiene has only come about since school broke up last Friday. She is usually on the ball with the teeth-brushing, hair-washing, etc and this has resulted in my husband being late for work and my son being late for school as she'll still be preening herself 10 minutes after they should've left.

Her current teacher and all of her previous teachers gave glowing reports about her.

She does an activity that costs a lot of money, but I thought it was worth keeping her in it as it was the one thing that got her up and out the door without a fuss - 2 of her friends from our road are also in this activity. No issues there whatsoever. After a few almighty temper-tantrums (stuff was damaged!), we pulled her from that activity. She was so upset. When she realised we weren't messing around, her behaviour improved! Eventually, we decided to let her go back to the activity and like a switch, her behaviour reverted back to 'normal' - strops, tantrums, etc.

It's difficult to cover everything in a post, but I always tell her I love her too. I've spoken extensively to her during quiet times about how funny & witty she is and how it upsets me when we're not getting on. I ask her does she not prefer when we get on well. I always start the conversation with 'you are so clever/smart, etc....' before I give out about anything. I absolutely mean it too. She's such a bright child, that I can't get my head around why she thinks it's better to carry on as she is. I remind her time and again that she gets so much more by way of treats - cinema trips, new clothes, etc when her behaviour is good. It just doesn't seem to hit home with her.

Believe me, I've tried to limit the TV, but you try to physically move a 12 year old out of a room when she outright refuses. If I could lock the door, I would! Her phone is taken off her at 9pm every evening. I take her to the library regularly to stock up on books to read once the phone is gone.

I should also have said that this behaviour is going on since she was approx. 10. She doesn't have her periods yet, so I don't think hormones are entirely to blame.

I know I shouldn't have, but I read a few pages she'd written in a notebook recently. Just a few bits about what she'd done that day. I read it because I was trying to find out if there was anything up with her. It was all really funny with plenty of 'LOL's' and waffling about mundane, tween stuff. Nothing sinister whatsoever. I honestly don't think she's depressed.

Sittingpretty · 18-04-2019 11:09am

Ruby31 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the replies. I'll try to answer as many of the questions as I can.

I used to clean her room. I used to wash her clothes. I brought her for a check-up to the GP & had bloods done. I spoke with 3 child & adolescent councelling clinics, so she's on waiting lists for each of them.

I suffered from depression from age 9 when my parents moved me to another school - it was closer to our house, no other reasons. I'm very aware of what it is to be depressed.

I stopped doing her washing, etc when I was being told on a regular basis by her that it was MY job. I tried to help her clean her room when she seemed exasperated by the amount of work involved. She then sat down & started leafing through a book, leaving me to do everything!

I call (BEG!) her time after time to PLEASE get out of bed and we'll go and do X,Y and Z - this included a trip to Dundrum to buy new clothes. She yells at me that she'll get up in FIVE minutes. When I try to calmly wake her again, I get told to shut up and go away!!

I should've said, the lack of hygiene has only come about since school broke up last Friday. She is usually on the ball with the teeth-brushing, hair-washing, etc and this has resulted in my husband being late for work and my son being late for school as she'll still be preening herself 10 minutes after they should've left.

Her current teacher and all of her previous teachers gave glowing reports about her.

She does an activity that costs a lot of money, but I thought it was worth keeping her in it as it was the one thing that got her up and out the door without a fuss - 2 of her friends from our road are also in this activity. No issues there whatsoever. After a few almighty temper-tantrums (stuff was damaged!), we pulled her from that activity. She was so upset. When she realised we weren't messing around, her behaviour improved! Eventually, we decided to let her go back to the activity and like a switch, her behaviour reverted back to 'normal' - strops, tantrums, etc.

It's difficult to cover everything in a post, but I always tell her I love her too. I've spoken extensively to her during quiet times about how funny & witty she is and how it upsets me when we're not getting on. I ask her does she not prefer when we get on well. I always start the conversation with 'you are so clever/smart, etc....' before I give out about anything. I absolutely mean it too. She's such a bright child, that I can't get my head around why she thinks it's better to carry on as she is. I remind her time and again that she gets so much more by way of treats - cinema trips, new clothes, etc when her behaviour is good. It just doesn't seem to hit home with her.

Believe me, I've tried to limit the TV, but you try to physically move a 12 year old out of a room when she outright refuses. If I could lock the door, I would! Her phone is taken off her at 9pm every evening. I take her to the library regularly to stock up on books to read once the phone is gone.

I should also have said that this behaviour is going on since she was approx. 10. She doesn't have her periods yet, so I don't think hormones are entirely to blame.

I know I shouldn't have, but I read a few pages she'd written in a notebook recently. Just a few bits about what she'd done that day. I read it because I was trying to find out if there was anything up with her. It was all really funny with plenty of 'LOL's' and waffling about mundane, tween stuff. Nothing sinister whatsoever. I honestly don't think she's depressed.

That is all very exasperating for you

Within your whole post though you’ve answered your own question, “her behaviour improved when she knew we were serious”. If it is that there isn’t something wrong and she’s just a normal pre teen then she’s playing you like a fiddle.

A 12 year old with access to (presumably) a smartphone until 9pm?!? Really? 7 pm absolute latest and if I had to take the plug off the TV I would. From what you’ve described above I’d imagine once you take control, once she knows you are (both) absolutely serious while still being loving caring parents, you should see a change in behaviour especially if you’ve already explored all the other routes advised in this thread.

I wish you luck, it’s not easy dealing with pre teens

Wheety · 18-04-2019 11:09am

Well never let her know you've read her notebook.

devlinio · 18-04-2019 11:13am

Ruby31 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the replies. I'll try to answer as many of the questions as I can.

I used to clean her room. I used to wash her clothes. I brought her for a check-up to the GP & had bloods done. I spoke with 3 child & adolescent councelling clinics, so she's on waiting lists for each of them.

I suffered from depression from age 9 when my parents moved me to another school - it was closer to our house, no other reasons. I'm very aware of what it is to be depressed.

I stopped doing her washing, etc when I was being told on a regular basis by her that it was MY job. I tried to help her clean her room when she seemed exasperated by the amount of work involved. She then sat down & started leafing through a book, leaving me to do everything!

I call (BEG!) her time after time to PLEASE get out of bed and we'll go and do X,Y and Z - this included a trip to Dundrum to buy new clothes. She yells at me that she'll get up in FIVE minutes. When I try to calmly wake her again, I get told to shut up and go away!!

I should've said, the lack of hygiene has only come about since school broke up last Friday. She is usually on the ball with the teeth-brushing, hair-washing, etc and this has resulted in my husband being late for work and my son being late for school as she'll still be preening herself 10 minutes after they should've left.

Her current teacher and all of her previous teachers gave glowing reports about her.

She does an activity that costs a lot of money, but I thought it was worth keeping her in it as it was the one thing that got her up and out the door without a fuss - 2 of her friends from our road are also in this activity. No issues there whatsoever. After a few almighty temper-tantrums (stuff was damaged!), we pulled her from that activity. She was so upset. When she realised we weren't messing around, her behaviour improved! Eventually, we decided to let her go back to the activity and like a switch, her behaviour reverted back to 'normal' - strops, tantrums, etc.

It's difficult to cover everything in a post, but I always tell her I love her too. I've spoken extensively to her during quiet times about how funny & witty she is and how it upsets me when we're not getting on. I ask her does she not prefer when we get on well. I always start the conversation with 'you are so clever/smart, etc....' before I give out about anything. I absolutely mean it too. She's such a bright child, that I can't get my head around why she thinks it's better to carry on as she is. I remind her time and again that she gets so much more by way of treats - cinema trips, new clothes, etc when her behaviour is good. It just doesn't seem to hit home with her.

Believe me, I've tried to limit the TV, but you try to physically move a 12 year old out of a room when she outright refuses. If I could lock the door, I would! Her phone is taken off her at 9pm every evening. I take her to the library regularly to stock up on books to read once the phone is gone.

I should also have said that this behaviour is going on since she was approx. 10. She doesn't have her periods yet, so I don't think hormones are entirely to blame.

I know I shouldn't have, but I read a few pages she'd written in a notebook recently. Just a few bits about what she'd done that day. I read it because I was trying to find out if there was anything up with her. It was all really funny with plenty of 'LOL's' and waffling about mundane, tween stuff. Nothing sinister whatsoever. I honestly don't think she's depressed.

You're her mother so it IS your job though. At 12 it certainly isn't her job. Cop on
Mod warning
Please do not attack other posters

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 18-04-2019 11:31am

devlinio wrote: »

You're her mother so it IS your job though. At 12 it certainly isn't her job. Cop on.

What utter rubbish. I don't want to side track the thread but our six year old helps with the laundry every week sorting, matching, folding etc (amongst other jobs like tidying rooms, toys etc). Has been helping since she was four years old. We give her pocket money after she helps. She's delighted. She mostly saves up for larger items but she also buys herself a magazine (no matter how silly they are) every few weeks.
The younger child is getting in on it now, as he wants his magazine too. They usually end up sharing the jobs and the pocket money.
In terms of tidying her room and toys etc, what's not tidied goes on the bin. Haven't had to dump any clothes or toys in a while.

I hope it continues as she grows up and into her teens. Time will tell I guess.

I cannot give you any advise OP as my kids have reached that age yet. Best of luck with the counseling services, I hope they can give you help or at least some advice.

canonball5 · 18-04-2019 11:43am

OP, I think you need to cop on and look at yourself here. She's fecking 12, she's a child, you're her mother. You seem to be very tough on her and maybe spending a little time with her even watching TV would be good for her. Barking orders at her clearly isn't working.

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 11:46am

Roberto Numerous Viewpoint wrote: »

What utter rubbish. I don't want to side track the thread but our six year old helps with the laundry every week sorting, matching, folding etc (amongst other jobs like tidying rooms, toys etc). Has been helping since she was four years old. We give her pocket money after she helps. She's delighted. She mostly saves up for larger items but she also buys herself a magazine (no matter how silly they are) every few weeks.
The younger child is getting in on it now, as he wants his magazine too. They usually end up sharing the jobs and the pocket money.
In terms of tidying her room and toys etc, what's not tidied goes on the bin. Haven't had to dump any clothes or toys in a while.

I hope it continues as she grows up and into her teens. Time will tell I guess.

I cannot give you any advise OP as my kids have reached that age yet. Best of luck with the counseling services, I hope they can give you help or at least some advice.

That poster is right, though. It IS her job. I grew up with parents who made me feel like basic caregiving things like clothes washing, cooking and grocery shopping were favours. They're not. You have kids, you look after them. When it gets to 15/16, grand, you can expect them to be doing most things for themselves, but 12 is still very young. Plenty of 12-year-olds and younger kids would be capable of doing their own washing and be happy to do it, especially if they find it fun, but I definitely don't think it can be expected at that age. Is she being sent to school in dirty clothes?

devlinio · 18-04-2019 11:59am

Roberto Numerous Viewpoint wrote: »

What utter rubbish. I don't want to side track the thread but our six year old helps with the laundry every week sorting, matching, folding etc (amongst other jobs like tidying rooms, toys etc). Has been helping since she was four years old. We give her pocket money after she helps. She's delighted. She mostly saves up for larger items but she also buys herself a magazine (no matter how silly they are) every few weeks.
The younger child is getting in on it now, as he wants his magazine too. They usually end up sharing the jobs and the pocket money.
In terms of tidying her room and toys etc, what's not tidied goes on the bin. Haven't had to dump any clothes or toys in a while.

I hope it continues as she grows up and into her teens. Time will tell I guess.

I cannot give you any advise OP as my kids have reached that age yet. Best of luck with the counseling services, I hope they can give you help or at least some advice.

So if she doesn't wash her clothes, she should have dirty clothes? I don't think so. At 12, it's her parent's responsibility. If they help, that's fantastic. But if they don't, you don't leave them to their own devices.

SusieBlue · 18-04-2019 12:01pm

I can see it from both sides being honest.
OP you seem to be exasperated and understandably at the end of your tether. Your child seems to be crying out for attention and probably feels hard done by. Some of it is definitely down to her age and hormones.

I think you need to have a meeting with your daughter and husband and outline to her how her behaviour is upsetting you.
Then give her a chance to speak, to air her grievances, and draw a line under it. Work out a plan, between the 3 of ye, with fair compromises that will suit everyone.

For example, tell her you'll leave her sleep in till 10:30am and won't disturb her, but then she MUST get up, wash and get dressed.
That way, she doesn't have you nagging her all morning & can enjoy her lie in, and you have a clean, dressed daughter come 10:30am.
If she doesn't follow through with her end of the bargain, then her phone is gone for the day. And you must stick to it, there must be consequences for her actions.

Have a set of tasks for her to complete each day, whether it be hoovering, emptying the dishwasher etc. and give her a time you need these completed by. If you give her a time of say 2pm, she has 3 and a half hours from the time she gets up to complete them.
Again, if she doesn't do them, no phone.
She'll still feel like she has a bit of control and it'll be on her terms, but the jobs will still get done. Win win.

I remember when I was her age I used to love when my parents and siblings left me home alone.
When you take your son to the park, tell her you hope she enjoys the hour of peace and quiet in front of the tv with a nice cup of tea, but when ye come back, the tv is your sons for at least an hour. Follow through and if she doesn't agree to it, again, phone gone.

She absolutely should be cleaning her room but I do think you should do her washing.
The problem is that in some ways you are treating her like an adult (making her do her own washing) and in others, you are treating her like a child (nagging her to get up when she wants a lie in - most teenagers are glued to the bed).

You need to find a happy medium where she has personal responsibility and some choices, but ultimately, you will be in control. Right now the way things are, its all muddled up and it must be very confusing for her and very frustrating for you.
Hopefully you can come up with a plan that leads you to a more harmonious household.

tretorn · 18-04-2019 12:11pm

Why are you making her get up out of bed, can you not let her sleep on while you drop the younger child off.

She is on holidays and she needs to rest.

She sounds very depressed, its not normal for this age group not to want to be out with their friends, it is normal though for them to sleep until midday and then head out.

Its so sad to read that she tells you she loves you, why dont you say you love her back. You must know she is miserable and you need to talk to her and find out why. Have you spoken to her year head in school, they may be able to point you in the right direction for help and they will be able to tell you what shes like in school.

I wouldnt send her away from home for three weeks when she is in this frame of mind especially if she doesnt want to go.

shamrock55 · 18-04-2019 12:31pm

Your gonna have to include her in everything you do, don't push her away further, for god sake wash her clothes and get her to help you tidy her room and make it a bit of a bonding session, ask her what she'd like to do or go for the day, most important thing is to be her friend she's only a child afterall

Ruby31 · 18-04-2019 12:35pm

tretorn wrote: »

Why are you making her get up out of bed, can you not let her sleep on while you drop the younger child off.

She is on holidays and she needs to rest.

She sounds very depressed, its not normal for this age group not to want to be out with their friends, it is normal though for them to sleep until midday and then head out.

Its so sad to read that she tells you she loves you, why dont you say you love her back. You must know she is miserable and you need to talk to her and find out why. Have you spoken to her year head in school, they may be able to point you in the right direction for help and they will be able to tell you what shes like in school.

I wouldnt send her away from home for three weeks when she is in this frame of mind especially if she doesnt want to go.

With respect, you mustn't have read my follow-up post.

I didn't go near her until 10.30am. I agree that children this age need plenty of sleep. The problem is when it comes to bedtime, she's not tired at all. She could still be awake by 1 or 2am. It's the knock-on from sleeping in way too late.

Ruby31 · 18-04-2019 12:42pm

shamrock55 wrote: »

Your gonna have to include her in everything you do, don't push her away further, for god sake wash her clothes and get her to help you tidy her room and make it a bit of a bonding session, ask her what she'd like to do or go for the day, most important thing is to be her friend she's only a child afterall

I did say that I used to do her washing no problem at all. Her only job was to hang her clean clothes up in her wardrobe. I would leave them hanging over the banister outside her bedroom. She started just plucking clean clothes to wear off the banister & didn't hang them up at all. So then I hung them on the back of her chair in her bedroom. Same thing, just picking clothes to wear. They'd end up falling on the floor & get mixed-up with dirty clothes as she'd just fling them on the floor instead of in her wash basket which is IN her room! This is where the conflict arose! I told her I wasn't sifting through to find what was clean and what was dirty, so I made her do it and she yelled abuse at me & the whole disrespectful 'this is YOUR job' rant. I wanted her to understand the work that's involved, so she might have some appreciation.

idnkph · 18-04-2019 12:50pm

Tell me how wrote:

Also, I do not think it is normal for any 12 year old in a loving house to have to take care of washing their own clothes.

Sittingpretty wrote:

I also have to agree on the clothes washing, I wouldnâ€™t expect a 12 year old to maintain their own laundry. I would give her some responsibility and jobs around the house that being said.

Wheety wrote:

12 years old is a bit young to have responsibility of washing all her own clothes. Could you not tell her, only things in the laundry basket will be cleaned?

devlinio wrote:

You're her mother so it IS your job though. At 12 it certainly isn't her job. Cop on.

This is what's wrong with this generation. To many people thinking that things like washing clothes IS mammy's job.
Her mother I think it's doing a great job. She's 12 and needs some personal responsibility.
Obviously all quoted above don't have kids of this age.
A kid of 12 should be well able to look after washing their own clothes but mum has had to resort to not washing them because of the abuse she is getting from her.
That's just reinforcing that she won't stand for the behaviour and is making a stand with those consequences. What message is mum giving her daughter of she just does everything for her while she sprawls doing nothing expecting everything handed to her on a plate?
That would only make matters worse and turn the little madam into an even bigger beast.
We were told that she has broken stuff to try get her own way.
Seriously why should mum do any thing for a petulant brat who I think it's just trying to push the boundaries?

canonball5 wrote:

OP, I think you need to cop on and look at yourself here. She's fecking 12, she's a child, you're her mother. You seem to be very tough on her and maybe spending a little time with her even watching TV would be good for her. Barking orders at her clearly isn't working.

Read the mums replies and stop being so ignorant. Obviously you don't have kids and if you do god help them and you. You can't positivity reinforce bad behaviour and give attention until you get positive behaviour first.

tretorn wrote:

Its so sad to read that she tells you she loves you, why dont you say you love her back. You must know she is miserable and you need to talk to her and find out why. Have you spoken to her year head in school, they may be able to point you in the right direction for help and they will be able to tell you what shes like in school.

Mum already said glowing reports from school. She also said she always tells her she loves her. GO READ HER REPLIES.
Teenagers get to a point where they think the whole world revolves around them. Most teenagers turn into as5holes for a while but it's up to mum and dad to have rules and boundaries and to stick to them.
Positive reinforcement for good behaviour and consequences for bad behaviour.

OP give your daughter chores as another poster has said with a time limit. Same as getting up in the morning. She's still a child but very soon turning into a young adult so still needs routine even more so when she's not at school.
Give her allocated time slots for watching TV etc.
Keep the chin up and keep working with your husband. From what you have said I think you are doing a great job.
So many replies on here mamby pambying and saying do everything for her is a worry for future generations.

Kidkinobe · 18-04-2019 12:54pm

You should go to the doc and discuss..he/she will no doubt put you on anti depressants...In other words, its not your daughter, its you..

BabysCoffee · 18-04-2019 12:55pm

Would you consider getting rid of the tv?

Tell me how · 18-04-2019 1:01pm

Kidkinobe wrote: »

You should go to the doc and discuss..he/she will no doubt put you on anti depressants...In other words, its not your daughter, its you..

That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

Kidkinobe · 18-04-2019 1:08pm

Tell me how wrote: »

That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

You can read the distress in her post...two women going at each other is not an ideal situation as both will refuse to back down and both will only get more aggro over time with each other creating even further chemical imbalances in both their minds.
As Op has said, her daughter is a lay about, she is feeding off her mums aggro and vis versa, mum needs to go to doc, he will suggest bringing in daughter, within 4 months, things will be back on track.

punisher5112 · 18-04-2019 1:17pm

My daughter seems to love conflicts and loves shouting especially worse when the wife returns the shouting.

I've tried to get the wife to bring it down and have showed her how the other one loves it.

It's a little easier but she is extremely difficult in any task or even just could you help grab something it tends to be met with in a minute or I'm tired or ugh i have to do everything (keV & Perry really reminds me of)

With her room we tend to go in and help so as to get her actually started.

Clothes can be a struggle and take some time to arrive down....

You sometimes just have to keep at them but obviously nagging will only cause more issues so try make things a bit more fun, maybe not best word but just try and be there and help along.

Gimme A Pound · 18-04-2019 1:29pm

Oh ffs, of course the mother gets admonished here, despite the clearly written and detailed post about how difficult her daughter is being. She's lying around the place day in day out and starting fights - it's hardly unreasonable for a parent to be concerned about this. Good on you for your honesty OP.

Although in my opinion her laundry may as well be done with everyone else's.

She reminds me - to a tee - of another girl I used to know very well indeed.

You've described 13-year-old me (apart from the not showering bit - I was the opposite, used to hijack the bathroom for ages). And lots of teens. I was an asshole and regularly apologise to my parents now. They laugh and say it was just typical moody teen carry-on, but it was still hard for them. And at one stage my mother did let it slip that she was at her wits' end worrying about me.

It was definitely just adolescence - and it passed. Does she have any interests besides rubbish tv?

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 1:38pm

Tell me how wrote: »

That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

Sorry, but as the child of a depressed mother, I have to agree. The entire OP is going on about this child as if she were an adult, as if they are equals. They're not. OP is taking it all very personally, when really it seems like the girl is either being stroppy and moody or has some real depression issues.

Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.

Ruby31 · 18-04-2019 1:41pm

Thanks again everyone. I'm reading all the replies and I really appreciate the time people are taking to respond. I have to go and collect my youngest now, but will be checking in again tonight.

Sardonicat · 18-04-2019 1:52pm

What negative consequences are in place for when she roars abuse at you, fails to be up, showered and dressed by a certain time or tries to hog the tv?

I'd start there and wouldn't make a song and dance over it. That phone would be removed for a start. She's plenty old enough to do a few chores around the house now as a matter of course : loading and emptying dishwasher, pegging out clothes and folding them when dry, hoovering the common areas. All of these things were a matter of course growing up for those of us over 40. They teach basic life skills and responsibilities and give a sense of contributing to the family and an appreciation for the people who do it day in day out for us from when we're born. Plenty of praise for a job well done and reinstate privileges when she shows she can do those BASIC ( and they are very, very basic) chores without giving abuse or being nagged. Phone, TV, pocket money aren't rights. She must earn and appreciate them and verbally abusing her parents should bring a major consequence IMO.

Wabbit Ears · 18-04-2019 1:54pm

lainey_d_123 wrote:

Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.

This. OP reread this over and over and over.

ChippingSodbury · 18-04-2019 2:07pm

If it's Sky TV you have, just take out the card: it happens in my house on an odd occasion (just don;t forget where you put it!!)

On the phone, my child has an Android phone and I have Google Family Link installed on it which gives you control over the phone. It's a free app, just be careful that you put in the "correct" (!!) date of birth: it only works until the child is 13 years old. It can be used to set start/ finish times, total daily time, approval of any app before installation etc.

Another thing I've noticed is that shouting matches don't generally work. Try and walk away, take a few minutes and come back when you're slightly calmer, pick a punishment and follow through on it. Often times, a punishment is chosen in the heat of the moment which either can't be done or is too harsh. If it isn't implemented, not only is no lesson learned but it sets a trend in the child's mind that "I can get away with this behaviour". A rewards system can be handy too, punishment can often then be removal of rewards e.g. tv, phone, bedtime etc.

Stick with it, it sounds like you're trying to do the right things but as stated above, if you pick a punishment/ sanction, it must be followed through so choose wisely and be fair.

eagle eye · 18-04-2019 2:11pm

A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.

punisher5112 · 18-04-2019 2:16pm

I see absolutely no reason why any child especially at 12 can't do house work or anything to help.

Yes they're kids but I was helping out my grandad and done housework and jobs such as painting etc and done work on his farm also.

It was nice having things to keep mind active.

Obviously no kid wants to clean up etc but it's only way to learn so get cracking.

Sardonicat · 18-04-2019 2:21pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Tell me how wrote: »

That's a completely misleading opinion in my view.

The OP is struggling to make things better for her and her daughter but to suggest that she requires depression medication is baseless.

Sorry, but as the child of a depressed mother, I have to agree. The entire OP is going on about this child as if she were an adult, as if they are equals. They're not. OP is taking it all very personally, when really it seems like the girl is either being stroppy and moody or has some real depression issues.

Sorry, but you don't just stop doing a child's washing and let her go out in dirty clothes because you didn't like the way she spoke to you. You just CANNOT do that to children. It is literally OP's job to feed, clothe and care for her child. That is not conditional in the child behaving the way she wants her to. The kid threw her laundry on the back of a chair (absolutely normal, if lazy) and OP's response is to stop doing her washing to teach her a lesson? This isn't an 18-year-old college student. We're talking about a dependent child.

That's not why she stopped doing her washing. Clean clothes ready to be put away just dropped in a heap on the floor and her mother expected to sift through the clothes on the floor for the dirty ones. Read the woman's replies. And the girl is 12, not 6. I wouldn't be doing that either. If she wants her clothes washed she can put the dirty ones in the laundry basket and hang the clean, ironed clothes up. While I wouldn't leave her wash her own clothes unsupervised, I'd certainly be getting her involved in the laundry process and the consequence for not putting her dirty clothes in the basket and letting her clean ones lie crumpled on the floor would be no washing done til this was rectified. It's also the OP'S job to teach responsibility to her children. Leaving it til she's 18 is too late.

Sardonicat · 18-04-2019 2:24pm

eagle eye wrote: »

A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.

She's been taken to a doctor. She's vegging out cos it's the school holidays. Has anyone bothered to read the OP'S replies?

Tell me how · 18-04-2019 2:26pm

eagle eye wrote: »

A lot of signs of depression there. She needs to give see a doctor.

She's a 12 year old. Yes, maybe she has depression but also, maybe she is starting to be a stroppy teenager (most of us were at some point).

If (and I'm saying 'If') she was led to believe she has depression when she doesn't, she may use that as an excuse for her bad behaviour.

We can't blame Dr's for the rising amounts of anti-depressants being prescribed if people are walking in the door and saying that they need them too quickly.

I agreed with Susie Blue point previously of having a 3 way conversation with the girl and the OP's husband and then deciding next steps.

If necessary after the chat, I would bring her to a GP and let them diagnose but I'm pretty sure none of us can diagnose depression for either daughter or mother based on what we have been told.

punisher5112 · 18-04-2019 2:36pm

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

This. OP reread this over and over and over.

Why. Why why why why.....

Nothing wrong with a child taking a little bit of responsibility and this is great to teach them how to actually get on in life.

Jaysus I could do the washing well before 12.

Thing is I wouldn't trust my daughter as she could put anything in the machine and I mean anything.

lainey_d_123 · 18-04-2019 2:47pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why. Why why why why.....

Nothing wrong with a child taking a little bit of responsibility and this is great to teach them how to actually get on in life.

Jaysus I could do the washing well before 12.

Thing is I wouldn't trust my daughter as she could put anything in the machine and I mean anything.

Because it's not right. You cannot take away care from a child because you don't like their behaviour. Sweets? Fine. Treats? Fine. TV? Fine. You do not stop washing their clothes because they mix up clean and dirty ones. Teaching a child to be self sufficient and do their own chores is healthy. This kind of mind games and punishment is not.

punisher5112 · 18-04-2019 2:53pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Because it's not right. You cannot take away care from a child because you don't like their behaviour. Sweets? Fine. Treats? Fine. TV? Fine. You do not stop washing their clothes because they mix up clean and dirty ones. Teaching a child to be self sufficient and do their own chores is healthy. This kind of mind games and punishment is not.

But she isn't doing anything so the parents need to find a way to get her to.
It was worth a try now a different approach is needed.

We all learn along the way.

What would be best is enter room and assist in the clothes and talk her through it. Keep at it and keep calm.

Struggling with 12 year old daughter

Comments