Surname Maps

BarraOG · 23-05-2018 9:05am #1

Hi,

I created a distribution map for my surname using Irish census data from 1901 and 1911. As a result I am now able to produce maps for any number of surnames and was thinking it might be an idea to offer these maps on a website. The maps aren't finalised yet but I'm interested in getting some feedback at this stage both in terms of the quality and appearance of the maps themselves and the idea of starting a website to host them. Eventually I might even offer large decorative versions of these maps for purchased from my website if such a demand existed.

The maps are shaded with respect to the percentage of people in a ded with the given surname. I also have a lot of statistical data for each surname, at the ded level, for information like religion and occupation. So I will also provide such info under the maps. Might also be interesting to produce additional maps concerning this information.

I've attached 1911 versions of the maps for Byrne, Murphy, Ryan and Quinn.

Thanks,
Barry

pinkypinky · 23-05-2018 9:23am

They look very nice. I'd label the map with the name or put a heading in.

John Grenham's website produces similar maps so you should compare with his.

BarraOG · 23-05-2018 10:06am

pinkypinky wrote: »

They look very nice. I'd label the map with the name or put a heading in.

John Grenham's website produces similar maps so you should compare with his.

Thanks! I've updated the attachments with a title.

tabbey · 23-05-2018 10:52pm

BarraOG wrote: »

Hi,

I created a distribution map for my surname using Irish census data from 1901 and 1911. As a result I am now able to produce maps for any number of surnames and was thinking it might be an idea to offer these maps on a website. The maps aren't finalised yet

I've attached 1911 versions of the maps for Byrne, Murphy, Ryan and Quinn.

Surprised to see Byrne in large numbers in Louth and West Donegal.

BarraOG · 23-05-2018 11:00pm

tabbey wrote: »

Surprised to see Byrne in large numbers in Louth and West Donegal.

In 1911, according to the census, there were 1048 people with the name Byrne in Louth and 942 in Donegal.

Hermy · 23-05-2018 11:37pm

For what it's worth three people living in Louth in 1911 entered Byrne in the forename box.

BarraOG · 24-05-2018 12:11am

I get 1048 when I use that search tool for Louth. Not sure why your link is returning so few...

Hermy · 24-05-2018 12:35am

Sorry - that should read forename - not surname.

Earnest · 24-05-2018 11:15am

There's a discussion of West Donegal Byrnes at https://www.ancestry.com/boards/thread.aspx?o=0&m=880.2.1.1&p=surnames.byrne
which traces back to O'Birnes in 1655/6. If you look at https://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/byrne/results
and look for Sublineage IIa2a there seems to be a Donegal connection. Now if I understand what this table is showing (and maybe I do not) the Donegal Byrnes probably come from a migration at some time in the past before 1655/6.

pedroeibar1 · 25-05-2018 12:13am

I like the layout and coding of the maps. American audiences might prefer ‘green’ as a colour?
Pinky is correct – you should look at what John Grenham has done. Some of his sources are listed here

However, from a business perspective I think your idea is a very niche product, not really stand-alone IMO but it could be a nice ‘add-on’ link on a site dedicated to a family name. If you try to commercialize it I’d (in your position) try co-marketing, with redirects and a commission to the vendor portal site.
You could also add in more layers at County level (less work/cost than at DED) showing surnames from other sources . These are less precise, but valid, and easiery to input.
(a) There is a map from the era of Henry VIII that shows Irish ‘chieftains & territories’.
(b) The Hearth Money rolls from the 1660’s;
(c) Griffiths (first half 1800’s);
(d) Mathewson’s book on surname frequency and distribution – it has a chapter on surnames by county location.
Another idea – but probably not much use for Ireland as records are scant/sparse – is a ‘slider’ timeline for a family name, showing county distribution on a dateline scale determined by century or half-century. That would allow migratory expansion patterns to be seen.
Best of luck with it if you go ahead.

BarraOG · 25-05-2018 7:46am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I like the layout and coding of the maps. American audiences might prefer ‘green’ as a colour?
Pinky is correct – you should look at what John Grenham has done. Some of his sources are listed here

However, from a business perspective I think your idea is a very niche product, not really stand-alone IMO but it could be a nice ‘add-on’ link on a site dedicated to a family name. If you try to commercialize it I’d (in your position) try co-marketing, with redirects and a commission to the vendor portal site.
You could also add in more layers at County level (less work/cost than at DED) showing surnames from other sources . These are less precise, but valid, and easiery to input.
(a) There is a map from the era of Henry VIII that shows Irish ‘chieftains & territories’.
(b) The Hearth Money rolls from the 1660’s;
(c) Griffiths (first half 1800’s);
(d) Mathewson’s book on surname frequency and distribution – it has a chapter on surnames by county location.
Another idea – but probably not much use for Ireland as records are scant/sparse – is a ‘slider’ timeline for a family name, showing county distribution on a dateline scale determined by century or half-century. That would allow migratory expansion patterns to be seen.
Best of luck with it if you go ahead.

Thanks for your advice! I had green shading first but the current shading has much better contrast. Maybe I should investigate a green/orange shading

I had a website back in 2001 with surname maps where I used telephone records and reached the point where my maps covered Ireland and Scotland. Later I did a another website, in 2008 I think, where I had Great Britain and Ireland, again using phone records. At that stage I made a map for "Griffin" covering both islands, see attachment. My interest in all of this was triggered by seeing an online advertisement where people were asked to enter their surname to see where it came from. I entered "Griffin" and was told it was Welsh. I just had to prove them wrong...

BarraOG · 25-05-2018 10:10am

OK so I've thrown together a quick website:

https://barrygriffin.com/surname-maps/

Very much a work in progress and I will be adding a lot more maps in due course. If you have a surname your eager to see added let me know here.

Waitsian · 26-05-2018 1:41pm

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Mathewson’s book on surname frequency and distribution – it has a chapter on surnames by county location.

What's this book now?

pedroeibar1 · 26-05-2018 4:35pm

mod9maple wrote: »

What's this book now?

An online copy is available HERE

Waitsian · 26-05-2018 4:51pm

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

An online copy is available HERE

Excellent, thanks very much, appreciate it.

BarraOG · 27-05-2018 10:08am

I now have over 700 surnames covered for both 1901 and 1911!
https://barrygriffin.com/surname-maps/

KildareFan · 27-05-2018 10:51am

Nice - but my surname still not appearing! bean Uí Ghríobhtha must be very lonely - she gets a map all to herself.

BarraOG · 27-05-2018 11:08am

KildareFan wrote: »

Nice - but my surname still not appearing! bean Uí Ghríobhtha must be very lonely - she gets a map all to herself.

Whats your surname and I’ll add it? I’ve started working down the list of surnames based on how common they are. Had to cheat though with regard to versions of my surname.

bren2002 · 27-05-2018 11:14am

I think you really need to work on the image.
If someone buys this they do it to hang on a wall and this just isn't up to standard.

To be clear, this is not criticism of the idea, just the execution.

Have a look at mapiful.com for examples of the kind of image and layout you need to aspire too.

I think you'll need professional help with your base map and heatmap graphics.

BarraOG · 27-05-2018 12:24pm

bren2002 wrote: »

I think you really need to work on the image.
If someone buys this they do it to hang on a wall and this just isn't up to standard.

To be clear, this is not criticism of the idea, just the execution.

Have a look at mapiful.com for examples of the kind of image and layout you need to aspire too.

I think you'll need professional help with your base map and heatmap graphics.

These are just the free maps. The “for sale” maps will be very different from these in appearance. I won’t start with these maps until the site has a more professional character with a decent amount of traffic.

Thomas from Presence · 28-05-2018 9:53am

Mapping is a great approach. I'm doing a single name study and it has been indispensable . The Google maps service is great for this as it lets you collect images, links and text and put them into a live map. Here's mine: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oVVig1zoFGEoMoTb94yvX1lBgT4&usp=sharing

bluezulu49 · 28-05-2018 3:47pm

Hi Barraog. I would be very interested to see map for Comiskey. Great website!.

tabbey · 28-05-2018 9:50pm

BarraOG wrote: »

I now have over 700 surnames covered for both 1901 and 1911!
https://barrygriffin.com/surname-maps/

While this is laudable, it is not the best guide to where our ancestors originated.
The Tithe Applotments and Griffith's Primary Valuation would be much more appropriate.

Enormous movement of people started in the 1840s for the following reasons;

The Irish Constabularly (later RIC) started in the 1830s, recruiting men from all over the island, and stationing them elsewhere.

The railways developed in the 1840s. Not merely did they provide travel opportunities for people who could afford them, but gave massive employment, initially in construction, for an army of labourers, who moved as the projects were completed to the next scheme.
Later railway employees also transferred from one station / depot to another for promotion.

The great famine also led to massive movement, not only internally but to Britain and abroad. When they returned, if at all, they may have settled far from their original homes.

BarraOG · 28-05-2018 10:05pm

tabbey wrote: »

While this is laudable, it is not the best guide to where our ancestors originated.
The Tithe Applotments and Griffith's Primary Valuation would be much more appropriate.

Enormous movement of people started in the 1840s for the following reasons;

The Irish Constabularly (later RIC) started in the 1830s, recruiting men from all over the island, and stationing them elsewhere.

The railways developed in the 1840s. Not merely did they provide travel opportunities for people who could afford them, but gave massive employment, initially in construction, for an army of labourers, who moved as the projects were completed to the next scheme.
Later railway employees also transferred from one station / depot to another for promotion.

The great famine also led to massive movement, not only internally but to Britain and abroad. When they returned, if at all, they may have settled far from their original homes.

I would be interested in doing the Griffith Valuation. The website askaboutireland hosts the necessary data for me to do the maps but that website says the "Griffith's Valuation material (digital images and index) is Copyright of (c)2003 OMS Services Ltd, Eneclann Ltd and the National Library of Ireland." so I'll have to look into that some more. Any advice in this regard?

tabbey · 28-05-2018 10:27pm

BarraOG wrote: »

I would be interested in doing the Griffith Valuation. The website askaboutireland hosts the necessary data for me to do the maps but that website says the "Griffith's Valuation material (digital images and index) is Copyright of (c)2003 OMS Services Ltd, Eneclann Ltd and the National Library of Ireland." so I'll have to look into that some more. Any advice in this regard?

Perhaps the Tithe Applotment Books could be done. The NAI might grant permission.

pinkypinky · 28-05-2018 10:32pm

John Grenham has already mapped surnames on Griffiths. I'm sorry but I don't see the point in replicating work that's done in other places. I know you'd be offering them for sale and framing but it's worth doing some market research before investing more time in this project.

Donalde · 29-05-2018 10:26am

Very nice. Is it possible to do maps that can be zoomed in, to view the actual DEDs?
That together with a Griffith map would, I think be a useful research tool

spurious · 29-05-2018 3:42pm

BarraOG wrote: »

I would be interested in doing the Griffith Valuation. The website askaboutireland hosts the necessary data for me to do the maps but that website says the "Griffith's Valuation material (digital images and index) is Copyright of (c)2003 OMS Services Ltd, Eneclann Ltd and the National Library of Ireland." so I'll have to look into that some more. Any advice in this regard?

The images are copyright. The information is not. You would be presenting it in a new format. (Not a legal expert, but that's how I understand it).

Surname Maps

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