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Apple Athenry data centre

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    #92
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,277 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Is it true the person holding this up lives elsewhere in the country?


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    #93
    the whole year inn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,078 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Is it true the person holding this up lives elsewhere in the country?

    No, there was a massive land owner but his complaint was thrown out.


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    #94
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,882 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    One of the objectors lives in Wicklow


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    #95
    meep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭meep


    To get some kind of handle on potential employment, I had a look at the palling submission and plans;

    http://gccapps.galwaycoco.ie/viewexternaldocuments/ViewPDF?ref=1971694

    This is certainly more than 'a few engineers to keep it ticking over' kind of facility, but not something that could be termed 'a major employer'

    The main logistics and admin building contains 21 dedicated offices, 3 open plan office spaces, a facility operations centre and 9 conference rooms. There are several other workspaces related to logistics etc. There's no dedicated canteen or kitchen area, just a break room.

    The main car park has ~140 spaces provided.

    Each data centre has several offices and work areas with 20 dedicated car parking spaces.

    It's probably reasonable to assume that the facility could support maybe 50 workers. Assuming a skeleton security and technical staff on 2x out of hours shifts, the total might be around 70.

    Am open to correction, of course, as I'm not an expert at reverse calculating staff ratios based on office space provisions. However, there's a lot more office and workspace provided here than some of the employment naysayers could be comfortable with.


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    #96
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭hometruths


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    Is it true the person holding this up lives elsewhere in the country?

    The guy from Wicklow, Brian Mc Donagh, was trying to build his own data center a few years ago and ran into a few problems of his own with ABP. Thread in the Wicklow forum here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89047122

    Whilst most of his objections were thrown out, the other objectors continued to fight on and somehow found the funds to engage Michael McDowell SC to represent them. The other objectors have been evasive when asked how they are funding the legal fees.

    Interestingly when Brian McDonagh needed a senior counsel to fight the case for his own data centre he used none other than Michael McDowell SC.

    Mc Donagh's first row with ABP ended up in the Supreme Court, so even if Apple get the decision to grant planning permission today, we may not have heard the last of this!


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    #97
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    schmittel wrote: »
    The guy from Wicklow, Brian Mc Donagh, was trying to build his own data center a few years ago and ran into a few problems of his own with ABP. Thread in the Wicklow forum here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89047122

    Whilst most of his objections were thrown out, the other objectors continued to fight on and somehow found the funds to engage Michael McDowell SC to represent them. The other objectors have been evasive when asked how they are funding the legal fees.

    Interestingly when Brian McDonagh needed a senior counsel to fight the case for his own data centre he used none other than Michael McDowell SC.

    Mc Donagh's first row with ABP ended up in the Supreme Court, so even if Apple get the decision to grant planning permission today, we may not have heard the last of this!
    To be fair here, McDowell would be most peoples first choice as a Senior on a public law matter like this.

    Regarding fees, it's entirely possible the objectors have a favourable deal with their own representation. As they've raised environmental concerns, they're never going to get stuck with the other sides costs (in any meaningful way) per the Aarhus Convention so it's quite low risk litigation.


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    #98
    Mearings
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Mearings


    Robbo wrote: »
    To be fair here, McDowell would be most peoples first choice as a Senior on a public law matter like this.

    Regarding fees, it's entirely possible the objectors have a favourable deal with their own representation. As they've raised environmental concerns, they're never going to get stuck with the other sides costs (in any meaningful way) per the Aarhus Convention so it's quite low risk litigation.

    Who's representing Athenry?


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    #99
    ronnie3585
    Registered Users Posts: 6,675 ✭✭✭ronnie3585


    Looking at Ciaran Cannon's FB page, it looks like the High Court has ruled in ABP's favour.


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Brilliant news, a great boost for county Galway, the west and Ireland and a sicker for that serial protester and the other tiny number of begrudgers.

    This fiasco shows though that the objections process needs to be changed. The objections holding this up should never have been entertained and hopefully in future there will be a mechanism for binning these types of nonsense objections immediately. Definitely objections should only be allowed by locals and not this rubbish from people on the other side of the country.

    Edit: why is the judge allowing further objections to be made on Monday though, total nonsense. The decision should be final today.


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    #101
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,882 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Johnny Poor Lemonade wrote: »
    Brilliant news, a great boost for county Galway, the west and Ireland and a sicker for that serial protester and the other tiny number of begrudgers.
    Edit: why is the judge allowing further objections to be made on Monday though, total nonsense. The decision should be final today.

    If they want to go to a higher court they must present themselves in court next Monday with their Barristers and with their cheque books, so it will cost a small fortune to proceed further.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Johnny Poor Lemonade wrote: »
    Brilliant news, a great boost for county Galway, the west and Ireland and a sicker for that serial protester and the other tiny number of begrudgers.

    This fiasco shows though that the objections process needs to be changed. The objections holding this up should never have been entertained and hopefully in future there will be a mechanism for binning these types of nonsense objections immediately. Definitely objections should only be allowed by locals and not this rubbish from people on the other side of the country.

    Edit: why is the judge allowing further objections to be made on Monday though, total nonsense. The decision should be final today.

    Good news indeed. I'd say these people deliberately exploit the weaknesses inherent in the system that causes delays in the hope that companies will get frustrated by such delays and pull out. Apple were hinting at this it seems. System needs streamlining as a matter of urgency. No doubt the snail, bat, bog cotton lovers etc will be marshalling their forces once again once the Galway City bypass comes up for scrutiny soon.


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    #103
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    High Court has dismissed appeal/JR against ABP decision to grant permission for this project.

    Good news for Athenry and the West


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    #104
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    meep wrote: »
    To get some kind of handle on potential employment, I had a look at the palling submission and plans;

    http://gccapps.galwaycoco.ie/viewexternaldocuments/ViewPDF?ref=1971694

    This is certainly more than 'a few engineers to keep it ticking over' kind of facility, but not something that could be termed 'a major employer'

    The main logistics and admin building contains 21 dedicated offices, 3 open plan office spaces, a facility operations centre and 9 conference rooms. There are several other workspaces related to logistics etc. There's no dedicated canteen or kitchen area, just a break room.

    The main car park has ~140 spaces provided.

    Each data centre has several offices and work areas with 20 dedicated car parking spaces.

    It's probably reasonable to assume that the facility could support maybe 50 workers. Assuming a skeleton security and technical staff on 2x out of hours shifts, the total might be around 70.

    Am open to correction, of course, as I'm not an expert at reverse calculating staff ratios based on office space provisions. However, there's a lot more office and workspace provided here than some of the employment naysayers could be comfortable with.

    Interesting. They mentioned a projected 15 employees on the news today. I had been under the impression that was to be a massive employment opportunity for Athenry and the West of Ireland. Even a total of 70 feels to fall short of most peoples expectations I'd assume. Balance this against the environmental concerns likely to translate to a financial concerns and this doesn't seem the fantastic news I'd hoped it would be.


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    #105
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    _Whimsical_ wrote: »
    Interesting. They mentioned a projected 15 employees on the news today. I had been under the impression that was to be a massive employment opportunity for Athenry and the West of Ireland. Even a total of 70 feels to fall short of most peoples expectations I'd assume. Balance this against the environmental concerns likely to translate to a financial concerns and this doesn't seem the fantastic news I'd hoped it would be.

    It would take a lot more than 15 to run a place like that could be 70/80 security on shift, then maybe a 20 odd electricians at least for facilities along with electrical mechanical and network engineers. Then a small cleaning crew and some admin staff, some centres would have staffed canteens that add a few more bodies. Not a big employer when they are finished but any upgrades to infrastructure would be good for future development.


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    #106
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    This is from the papers so we don't have to speculate
    Some 300 jobs are forecast to be created over multiple phases of construction and ongoing employment in the operation of the centre with 150 technical staff to be employed on an ongoing basis.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/decision-on-apple-s-850m-data-centre-in-athenry-postponed-1.3167683


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    #107
    snowstreams
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭snowstreams


    Can it be appealed in any more courts now?
    Or can it finally start construction?


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    #108
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,319 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    snowstreams wrote: »
    Can it be appealed in any more courts now?
    Or can it finally start construction?

    I think I heard on the news that it can be appealed again


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    #109
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    Great news but the ruling took far too long.


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    #110
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    One of the objectors was criticised for his vested interest...

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1012/911735-apple-athenry/
    In relation to the application taken by Mr McDonagh, the court found he did not have standing to bring proceedings.

    It said he does not live in the physical proximity to the site in issue in Athenry and is based in Dublin.

    He did not participate in the planning process before Galway County Council or the Board of Appeal, the court also noted.

    Mr Justice McDermott also found that there had been significant non-disclosure and lack of candour in these proceedings by Mr McDonagh in relation to his interest in challenging the decision to permit the development which has not been satisfactorily explained.

    Mr McDonagh had previously been involved in trying to develop a data centre on lands in Co Wicklow.

    He also rejected the grounds put forward by Mr McDonagh in his application.


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    #111
    the whole year inn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,078 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    I am all for it to be built and many more, but there was valid objections, letting them walk all over us is wrong.
    People should be aloud to object with valid reasons and was it not the court that keep on deferring the verdict.


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    #112
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Mods

    I opened this thread having forgotten that there is a similar thread in "GALWAY CITY"

    Feel free to merge


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    #113
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,880 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    salmocab wrote: »
    It would take a lot more than 15 to run a place like that could be 70/80 security on shift, then maybe a 20 odd electricians at least for facilities along with electrical mechanical and network engineers. Then a small cleaning crew and some admin staff, some centres would have staffed canteens that add a few more bodies. Not a big employer when they are finished but any upgrades to infrastructure would be good for future development.

    It will be minimal employer for sure. During construction yes, but not during operation. Those numbers are generous for security, it will depend on the final number of data center warehouses built. Have data center at my employers main campus. The building is about 3 times the size of the new Garda station in Renmore - its the quietest building on campus. You never see anybody going in and out. Big fences, security cameras etc etc. Needs a minimal number of people to keep it ticking over.

    Now where are the extra wind turbines going to be built in East Galway for these Green Data Centers?


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    #114
    meep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭meep


    what_traffic wrote: »
    It will be minimal employer for sure. During construction yes, but not during operation. Those numbers are generous for security, it will depend on the final number of data center warehouses built. Have data center at my employers main campus. The building is about 3 times the size of the new Garda station in Renmore - its the quietest building on campus. You never see anybody going in and out. Big fences, security cameras etc etc. Needs a minimal number of people to keep it ticking over.

    Now where are the extra wind turbines going to be built in East Galway for these Green Data Centers?

    If you check out my post on the previous page, you'll see that this facility can accomodate more than a 'minimal' staff. There's a significant amount of office space in the admin/logistics centre as well as parking for ~140.

    Each data centre block by itself would support the 'minimal staff' theory, with a few offices and 20 parking spaces apiece. However, I can't see any reason why Apple would build an additional admin facility with space for that number of staff only to leave it empty?

    The IT article quoted earlier indicates 300 jobs, with 150 long term. Assuming half of the 300 are short to medium term construction jobs, that would tally with my estimates, having looked at the plans, that the facility could accomodate maybe 70 staff plus 10 more in each data centre as it comes online = 140 when all is up and running.


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    #115
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    what_traffic wrote: »
    It will be minimal employer for sure. During construction yes, but not during operation. Those numbers are generous for security, it will depend on the final number of data center warehouses built. Have data center at my employers main campus. The building is about 3 times the size of the new Garda station in Renmore - its the quietest building on campus. You never see anybody going in and out. Big fences, security cameras etc etc. Needs a minimal number of people to keep it ticking over.

    Now where are the extra wind turbines going to be built in East Galway for these Green Data Centers?

    70/80 on shift means probably 4 different shifts so 18/20 on at a time over a few data halls and an admin building along with a gate house and a perimeter to patrol is about right.
    Just on your second sentence I presume your referring to security numbers during construction, construction numbers will be massive as Data Centers eat man power for build especially electricians and technical trades


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    #116
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,293 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    meep wrote: »
    The IT article quoted earlier indicates 300 jobs, with 150 long term. Assuming half of the 300 are short to medium term construction jobs, that would tally with my estimates, having looked at the plans, that the facility could accomodate maybe 70 staff plus 10 more in each data centre as it comes online = 140 when all is up and running.

    Big Data centre could have over 1000 on construction


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    #117
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,277 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Common sense prevails.

    Objections should be allowed, but this type of case should be fast tracked. Ridiculous that it was allowed to take this long.


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    #118
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,841 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I have experience in working on projects like this in Dublin and although its true that the data centre itself may have <100 employed on the site once it opens, these sort of projects attract others and the infrastructure improvements they bring will be massive for an area like Athenry.

    Ive worked with landowners around Blanchardstown in Dublin for a long number of years and from small beginnings there are now ebay, PayPal, IBM and a massive new Facebook data centre under construction, as well as the cream of world Pharma companies clustered in Ballycoolin nearby, all close to and working with the I.T. college.

    Well done Athenry for standing up for legitimate progress and prosperity and against vexatious self interest. Beir Bua.


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    #119
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,277 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    One of the objectors was criticised for his vested interest...

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1012/911735-apple-athenry/

    Lol, that's the chap I heard about.

    Delighted for him in particular.


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    #120
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,277 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    JRant wrote: »
    First up, there will be no chillers used. No Data centre in Ireland uses chillers, they are just not required. This site will use adiabatic cooling/free cooling.

    Second, at present data centres use 3% of the available grid power. It is also an ideal load for the grid as it is more or less constant and doesn't fluctuate widely depending on time of day.

    Third, we use coal and gas for nearly all of our fossil plants. Oil doesn't come into the equation.

    Fourth, the reason there are issue with available power on the grid is because every time a new plant or 400kV line is proposed you get morons like this fella objecting. Our planning laws need a huge overhaul IMO. At present, one person with a complaint can hold up a mutli billion euro project. It is this carryon that will hinder any future development in our country. The west of Ireland would be incredibly placed if the 400kV corridor had gone ahead. A strong grid connection, cheap land and highly educated people, including trades peiple, ready to work on these projects.


    Fair play for dissecting that hysteria. It read to me like a facebook scaremongering post


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    #121
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    salmocab wrote: »
    Big Data centre could have over 1000 on construction

    They've said 300 construction jobs are expected.

    According to RTE news all is not set in stone yet. Apple have not made any statement welcoming this judgement which they had been expected to do.
    They also said that when Apple initially announced the plan to build here they also announced a similar centre which was set for Denmark. That centre has since been built and they've announced a second centre for the same area in Denmark recently.


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