Windscreen wipers enabling head/tail lights

highdef · 20-09-2017 12:56pm #1

With so many eejits driving in rainy conditions with no lights on, where visibility can be almost nil, especially on roads with fast moving traffic such as motorways, would it be a good idea if windscreen wipers could be linked to the head/tail lights?

If you're wipers are on full (not intermittent), it can be assumed that the rain is heavy enough to wet the ground and therefore create spray which in turn lowers visibility. If the head and tail lights cam on automatically once the wipers are set to this mode, then everyone will be lit up. Cost wise, I would imagine this would cost almost nothing to the manufacturer and it would also be extremely easy to implement into the design of a new car

Perhaps this sort of system already exists as law in other countries and I think it's something that would be a fantastic idea to have as a mandatory safety feature fitted to all new vehicles.

Opinions?

bazz26 · 20-09-2017 1:01pm

Idiots will always be idiots no matter how much hand holding you give them. I've seen clowns driving in the dark with no headlights on in cars that I know have auto lights fitted as standard. They have the headlight switch set to manual.

b318isp · 20-09-2017 1:04pm

highdef wrote: »

Perhaps this sort of system already exists as law in other countries and I think it's something that would be a fantastic idea to have as a mandatory safety feature fitted to all new vehicles.

DRLs are now required on all new cars.

punisher5112 · 20-09-2017 1:05pm

b318isp wrote: »

DRLs are now required on all new cars.

Ford don't. Not as standard they are optional extra.

b318isp · 20-09-2017 1:07pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ford don't. Not as standard they are optional extra.

Hmm, are they breaking the law then?

"Since 2011, DLRs are mandatory for all new cars and small delivery vans in the EU. Trucks and buses followed in August 2012. Vehicles produced before don't have to be retrofitted."

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/topics/vehicles/daytime_running_lights_en

sundodger5 · 20-09-2017 1:09pm

Already exists. Its on my 151 passat and do not think it's new.

bazz26 · 20-09-2017 1:11pm

They do have them these days.

highdef · 20-09-2017 1:20pm

b318isp wrote: »

DRLs are now required on all new cars.

DRLs don't enable the headlights or tail lights though....just lower wattage lights at the front. DRLs are of little use during heavy rain on a motorway when the rear end of the car (in spray) is not illuminated.

Also, that's correct about Fords and DRLs - They are an optional extra.

highdef · 20-09-2017 1:25pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ford don't. Not as standard they are optional extra.

Is this all Ford models or just the Focus? If just the Focus, I believe it might be because the current model Focus was introduced before the DRL rules were implemented. Although a facelift Focus was introduced in 2015, it's still essentially the same as before, ie: not a brand new model.

The current model was introduced in 2011 so it would have been finalised earlier, probably 2010....before the DRL rules came in.

I could be completely wrong though, I'm open to correction.

b318isp · 20-09-2017 1:26pm

highdef wrote: »

DRLs are of little use during heavy rain on a motorway when the rear end of the car (in spray) is not illuminated.

That's true.

colm_mcm · 20-09-2017 1:38pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ford don't. Not as standard they are optional extra.

You mean LED DRLs maybe ?

Our vans even have them, just normal bulbs, nothing fancy.

AlfaZen · 20-09-2017 1:40pm

I was in New Jersey during the summer and it is state law that if your wipers are on your headlights have to be on.

Why don’t we just make it mandatory here that when your engine is on your lights have to be on?
Is there any valid argument against this?

Another problem is bad driver behaviour with cars fitted with DRLs and the driver thinking thy have their lights on because their dash is lit up.

bigtimecharlie · 20-09-2017 7:01pm

I think DRL is a waste of time. I would love to see "wipers on mean lights on" made law instead of DRL's.

colm_mcm · 20-09-2017 7:06pm

DRLs are very useful when it's not raining though.

SBPhoto · 20-09-2017 7:14pm

b318isp wrote: »

DRLs are now required on all new cars.

And some owners get the DRLs disconnected, saw a new 172 BMW lately with no DRLs!!

CiniO · 21-09-2017 1:25am

SBPhoto wrote: »

And some owners get the DRLs disconnected, saw a new 172 BMW lately with no DRLs!!

Not disconnected but just disabled in car settings.

While EU legislation forces all vehicles to be equipped in DRLs, there's no law in Ireland forcing anyone to use them, so they can be fully legally disabled.

Really silly, but I see a lot of new cars with disabled DRLs.
MAD>

CiniO · 21-09-2017 1:28am

OSI wrote: »

Never understood why they didn't make the rear lights being on at all times a requirement along with the DRLs the same way some Scandinavian countries already have it. I've coded my own car so the rear lights are on at all times along with the DRLs so there is not a single moment where the ignition is on and there aren't lights lit up front and rear and I cannot physically turn them off without recoding the car.

But why would you need rear tail lights on together with DRLs?
I can't think of any possible scenario when they would be useful.

CiniO · 21-09-2017 1:31am

highdef wrote: »

With so many eejits driving in rainy conditions with no lights on, where visibility can be almost nil, especially on roads with fast moving traffic such as motorways, would it be a good idea if windscreen wipers could be linked to the head/tail lights?

If you're wipers are on full (not intermittent), it can be assumed that the rain is heavy enough to wet the ground and therefore create spray which in turn lowers visibility. If the head and tail lights cam on automatically once the wipers are set to this mode, then everyone will be lit up. Cost wise, I would imagine this would cost almost nothing to the manufacturer and it would also be extremely easy to implement into the design of a new car

Perhaps this sort of system already exists as law in other countries and I think it's something that would be a fantastic idea to have as a mandatory safety feature fitted to all new vehicles.

Opinions?

Indeed that sounds like a great idea.
Lights should turn on automatically controlled by light sensor (plenty of cars have this already), as well as controller by rain sensor/wipers to come on during rain.
They should also turn on during fog, but I unfortunately can't think of right sensor for that.

Any other conditions - front DRLs should be enough.

colm_mcm · 21-09-2017 8:51am

Here's one for you. Was driving a Mondeo lately which has a dusk sensor for the instrument panel lighting but no auto lights. Penny pinching.

lway · 21-09-2017 9:31am

highdef wrote: »

With so many eejits driving in rainy conditions with no lights on, where visibility can be almost nil, especially on roads with fast moving traffic such as motorways, would it be a good idea if windscreen wipers could be linked to the head/tail lights?

If you're wipers are on full (not intermittent), it can be assumed that the rain is heavy enough to wet the ground and therefore create spray which in turn lowers visibility. If the head and tail lights cam on automatically once the wipers are set to this mode, then everyone will be lit up. Cost wise, I would imagine this would cost almost nothing to the manufacturer and it would also be extremely easy to implement into the design of a new car

Perhaps this sort of system already exists as law in other countries and I think it's something that would be a fantastic idea to have as a mandatory safety feature fitted to all new vehicles.

Opinions?

I have this on my 2005 Peugeot 407, after 5 consecutive swipes of the Wipers (not at intermittent level) the headlights come on automatically. If it could be done 12 years ago surely it can be done (probably better) in today's cars.

colm_mcm · 21-09-2017 10:53am

Could Ben a wiring glitch too

CiniO · 21-09-2017 11:16am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Could Ben a wiring glitch too

Haha very likely.
I got a diagbox from AliExpress to disable tyre pressure sensors on my 407 as it was malfunctioning.
I also turned on automatic lights so they come on automatically after engine is started.
As well i disabled drivers seatbelt alarm as I hate when it beeps when I'm reparking the car.

Only a while after I discovered that now when I exceed 120km/h the same alarm comes on and beeps all the way until speed falls below 120km/h. And as I don't remember turning on such feature, I wonder if that's also a wiring glitch?

P.s. obviously 120km/h thing was discovered on autobahn in case someone asks.

bazz26 · 21-09-2017 11:44am

CiniO wrote: »

Not disconnected but just disabled in car settings.

While EU legislation forces all vehicles to be equipped in DRLs, there's no law in Ireland forcing anyone to use them, so they can be fully legally disabled.

Really silly, but I see a lot of new cars with disabled DRLs.
MAD>

I don't think DRLs can be disabled via the car settings on a 2017 BMW. My BMW is 2014 and the DRLs cannot be disabled via the car setting menu, it would need to be done via coding On my old 2011 BMW they could be disabled via car settings but they were an optional extra on that car and not a mandatory requirement.

CiniO · 21-09-2017 11:55am

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't think DRLs can be disabled via the car settings on a 2017 BMW. My BMW is 2014 and the DRLs cannot be disabled via the car setting menu, it would need to be done via coding On my old 2011 BMW they could be disabled via car settings but they were an optional extra on that car and not a mandatory requirement.

Sorry that's what I meant. That they can be disabled in settings accessible with diagnostics interface.
I still don't get why anyone would want to do it.

grogi · 21-09-2017 11:59am

highdef wrote: »

With so many eejits driving in rainy conditions with no lights on, where visibility can be almost nil, especially on roads with fast moving traffic such as motorways, would it be a good idea if windscreen wipers could be linked to the head/tail lights?

Without a bit of sarcasm, I think it is a very good idea and have been for years surprised why it isn't implemented.

grogi · 21-09-2017 12:01pm

SBPhoto wrote: »

And some owners get the DRLs disconnected, saw a new 172 BMW lately with no DRLs!!

I hope this gets into NCT test soon. DRLs are required for type approval for some time now, disabling them invalidates the approval and makes the car road illegal.

CiniO · 21-09-2017 12:04pm

OSI wrote: »

You can understand the benefit of being more visible from the front with the use of lights, but you can't understand the benefit of being more visible from the rear with the use of lights?

Considering DRLs can only legally be used during daytime at good visibility, then there's no benefit of having rear tail lights on, as in such conditions they can't be seen anyway.
In any other conditions where rear tail lights would be beneficial, front dipped headlights should be on anyway.

CiniO · 21-09-2017 12:10pm

grogi wrote: »

I hope this gets into NCT test soon. DRLs are required for type approval for some time now, disabling them invalidates the approval and makes the car road illegal.

Are you sure about that?
I would have thought that having DRLs installed does not necessarily mean they need to be enabled if there no law forcing their usage.

grogi · 21-09-2017 12:12pm

CiniO wrote: »

Are you sure about that?
I would have thought that having DRLs installed does not necessarily mean they need to be enabled if there no law forcing their usage.

DRLs need to be installed and be functional. And for them to be functional they need to be switched on when the car is in motion and dipped lights are of. When DRLs are off, they are effectively malfunctioning.

bazz26 · 21-09-2017 12:26pm

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry that's what I meant. That they can be disabled in settings accessible with diagnostics interface.
I still don't get why anyone would want to do it.

Sure look at the battery power and bulb life you would save. :pac:

Paddystix · 25-09-2017 1:44pm

Have this with the new civic if the wipers are on constant during the day it turns on the headlights as well.

kirving · 25-09-2017 8:23pm

There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't drive around with your headlights and tail lights on at all times.

Low sun behind you, low sun in front of you, driving in the shadow of a building, country road with trees overhead, fog, water spray in bright sunlight, overtaking a truck where the flash of a head light in a mirror is much more visible than a dark grey car passing by, plenty of reasons to have them on all the time.

And don't "well other road users should be looking out for you, and it's their fault if they don't see you". You might be right, but there's no point being right after an accident.

CiniO · 25-09-2017 8:33pm

OSI wrote: »

I'd say that's the opposite of true to be honest. There's a reason brake lights, stop lights and warning lights are red. Our eyes are very sensitive and perceptive to the colour, if anything I'd imagine the eye would be more perceptive and reactive to the red lights on the rear of a car than the white lights on the front.

While I know nothing about eye sensitiveness to red colour, and I truly believe you are right here, I still disagree with the need for tail lights at daytime in good visibility.

There's not a hope to even tell if car at distance away has tail lights on/off at daytime.
You can probably only tell when close enough and usually only during overcast/cloudy conditions. At bright sunlight, you might not be even able to tell if car right in front of you in traffic jam has rear tail lights on or off.

Never since I start driving, I found rear tail lights at day to make me see car better. I was never in a situation when I though - oh jeysus there's a car just right there - I would have seen earlier it if it had tail light on.
Never.
And that's why I consider them pointless at daytime in good weather.

Front lights are completely different kettle of fish.
The main reason why they are helpful at day, is because they can be seen from far distance, while car without lights might not be seen at all from that distance.
When travelling 100km/h on N road you are covering nearly 30 metres in each second.
Other car oncoming at 100km/h, and you are getting closer to each other by nearly 60 metres each second.
That means if oncoming car is half a kilometre away, you are going to meet it in 9 seconds.
And it's extremely hard to see oncoming car from half a kilometre without lights, but very easy with them.
That's the real reason you need front lights at day.

CiniO · 25-09-2017 8:36pm

I've seen a post on facebook today, showing how truck driver can see cars without lights in mirrors during rain.
While I don't drive trucks, I have the same experience with seeing unlit cars in bus mirrors during rain or fog.

grogi · 25-09-2017 8:41pm

CiniO wrote: »

I've seen a post on facebook today, showing how truck driver can see cars without lights in mirrors during rain.
While I don't drive trucks, I have the same experience with seeing unlit cars in bus mirrors during rain or fog.

Combine the above with the preference for colours that allow the car blend with the tarmac... The cars in Ireland basically sell in 50 shades of grey.

colm_mcm · 25-09-2017 8:43pm

CiniO wrote: »

I've seen a post on facebook today, showing how truck driver can see cars without lights in mirrors during rain.
While I don't drive trucks, I have the same experience with seeing unlit cars in bus mirrors during rain or fog.

Isn't this more about how they can't see them?

mikeecho · 26-09-2017 12:30am

Anyone who has ever worked in the service industry will know that the general public are idiots.

Drl' s should be run in congention with rear lights, and if they don't, then turn your lights on.

But the general populas is stupid.

Henry Ford III · 26-09-2017 8:49am

colm_mcm wrote:

Our vans even have them, just normal bulbs, nothing fancy.

colm_mcm wrote:

You mean LED DRLs maybe ?

All new Fords have DRLs. Some have LED DRLs.

zilog_jones · 26-09-2017 9:54am

AlfaZen wrote: »

Why don’t we just make it mandatory here that when your engine is on your lights have to be on?
Is there any valid argument against this?

You're talking 160W (or more) for halogen dipped beams, tail lights and everything associated with these - that can be around 0.5 MPG depending on the car. To have these running all the time on every car would be a significant use of energy and increase of emissions, in a country that is already not going to meet CO2 targets and will probably be fined for exceeding them. LED DRLs are more in the region of 8-20W.

I'm all for automatic headlights linked to rain sensors or whatever. Even my '02 Peugeot 406 did this - it had auto lights, but maybe just got dark enough anyway when there was heavy rain.

Another problem is bad driver behaviour with cars fitted with DRLs and the driver thinking thy have their lights on because their dash is lit up.

I've seen guards driving around in the dark with only DRLs on! :rolleyes:

Windscreen wipers enabling head/tail lights

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