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Teaching Positions Applications requiring Leaving Cert results

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  • 21-06-2017 8:30pm
    #1
    Eimee90
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭


    Hi everyone, I've noticed that a lot of application forms in teaching positions that I've applied for want your leaving cert subjects, individual grades and level.

    I think its absolutely crazy, surely college results should speak for themselves.

    Can schools request and be given your leaving cert results without your permission. I think its disgraceful you could not be short listed due to leaving cert grades.

    Any thoughts or opinions on this?


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    #2
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    elsa21 wrote: »
    Hi everyone, I've noticed that a lot of application forms in teaching positions that I've applied for want your leaving cert subjects, individual grades and level.

    I think its absolutely crazy, surely college results should speak for themselves.

    Can schools request and be given your leaving cert results without your permission. I think its disgraceful you could not be short listed due to leaving cert grades.

    Any thoughts or opinions on this?

    Wasn't that where you did all honours and got A's and B's? Just make it up - college results should speak for themselves. Are they going to ask you for you leaving cert prior to interview/appointment? I haven't seen my leaving cert with years.


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    #3
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Wasn't that where you did all honours and got A's and B's? Just make it up - college results should speak for themselves. Are they going to ask you for you leaving cert prior to interview/appointment? I haven't seen my leaving cert with years.

    Some principals use it to fill gaps if you got an A1 in a subject for instance or if you did a subject with limited substitute teachers i.e art. Yes this does happen. Don't lie or you may be caught out.


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    #4
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Some principals use it to fill gaps if you got an A1 in a subject for instance or if you did a subject with limited substitute teachers i.e art. Yes this does happen. Don't lie or you may be caught out.

    +1 for not lying in your applications but this is ridiculous. Maybe you had a difficult time during your leaving and didn't get those A's - does that rule you out even though you succeeded and got to college/university and qualified as a teacher?


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    #5
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    +1 for not lying in your applications but this is ridiculous. Maybe you had a difficult time during your leaving and didn't get those A's - does that rule you out even though you succeeded and got to college/university and qualified as a teacher?

    It isn't used to discredit primarily. It is used to identify subjects you were strong in or subjects which don't have many substitutes (Spanish, Italian, Irish etc)in to fix holes on the timetables.


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    #6
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Hard to see how this info could be used in a reasonable manner.

    I remember it was suggested here before that all As would be seen as a negative :rolleyes: - so maybe give yourself all Bs instead :pac:


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    #7
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    It isn't used to discredit primarily. It is used to identify subjects you were strong in or subjects which don't have many substitutes (Spanish, Italian, Irish etc)in to fix holes on the timetables.

    Any principal that would timetable a teacher in a subject they got an A in the Leaving, really shouldn't be in the job.


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    #8
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    mtoutlemonde wrote: »
    Any principal that would timetable a teacher in a subject they got an A in the Leaving, really shouldn't be in the job.

    If you cannot get another teacher it is better than nothing. For all the teachers complaining that there are no jobs, there has been an extraordinarily low supply of substitute teachers and sometimes this is the only option to cover a few days or weeks.


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    #9
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    If you cannot get another teacher it is better than nothing. For all the teachers complaining that there are no jobs, there has been an extraordinarily low supply of substitute teachers and sometimes this is the only option to cover a few days or weeks.

    Well I took it as timetabling a teacher with classes as part of their contract not short term subbing. Apologies.


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    #10
    picturehangup
    Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭picturehangup


    Doesn't the Teaching Council exist to ensure that only teachers teaching a subject are fully qualified to teach it, and that giving someone a 'few hours' in something they have no degree or teaching qualification is a breach of their 'rules'?
    Surely that's why they are there in the first place?
    Short term subbing.. depending on how short term it is.. should be okay, though. Better than student sitting being supervised only. If it goes over a week, the school should endeavor to find a fully qualified sub, and be able to prove this. It is not fair that students should have to be without a teacher for any longer than this, especially exam years.


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    #11
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    picturehangup wrote: »
    Doesn't the Teaching Council exist to ensure that only teachers teaching a subject are fully qualified to teach it, and that giving someone a 'few hours' in something they have no degree or teaching qualification is a breach of their 'rules'?
    Surely that's why they are there in the first place?
    Short term subbing.. depending on how short term it is.. should be okay, though. Better than student sitting being supervised only. If it goes over a week, the school should endeavor to find a fully qualified sub, and be able to prove this. It is not fair that students should have to be without a teacher for any longer than this, especially exam years.

    That's all well and good and I agree with you. However it can be impossible to get people for 22hur posts let alone short term subbing.


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    #12
    Bean Scoile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Bean Scoile


    It's not that different from the schools that are asking people to sit a higher level leaving cert exam as part of their interview.

    I'd prefer to write down my original results than do a time trial at this stage of my life.


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    #13
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    When schools started at that craic I knew it was time to be moving on and looking elsewhere. Our leaving cert results do not determine what we are like as teachers. That's a very small minded mentality.


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    #14
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Leaving cert subjects shouldn't influence it however if you have a strong LC result in a subject you want to teach, then a candidate could use it to their advantage. I wouldn't ask for the results but its a nice talking point if they are on a CV. e.g. an accounting teacher having done only business at LC level and only getting a C3 doesn't look great however a science teacher getting A1 in chemistry and physics looks good. I got one application from a teacher who did ordinary level in the subject they were applying for and it was up to leaving cert higher level. Not a defining factor for the vast majority of candidates


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    #15
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,130 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I didn't sit LC at any level in the subject I had my degree in.

    I also sat my Leaving in the very early 80s. Anyone who wants to take a look at the papers from back then can make their own assumptions as to what that means.


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    #16
    Trekky77
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Trekky77


    picturehangup wrote: »
    Doesn't the Teaching Council exist to ensure that only teachers teaching a subject are fully qualified to teach it, and that giving someone a 'few hours' in something they have no degree or teaching qualification is a breach of their 'rules'?
    Surely that's why they are there in the first place?
    Short term subbing.. depending on how short term it is.. should be okay, though. Better than student sitting being supervised only. If it goes over a week, the school should endeavor to find a fully qualified sub, and be able to prove this. It is not fair that students should have to be without a teacher for any longer than this, especially exam years.

    How very naiive of you! The teaching council exists in order to collect €65 a year from all teachers. They are very efficient at sending multiple registered letters to people weeks in advance in order to remind them that they will owe the €65 soon. Then send some more registered letters. They do also contact teachers via electronic means such as SMS and email, those texts and emails are vital in order to ensure that the €65 is collected.

    Now getting back to your original point, why does the teaching council exist...? What function do they actually have? Oh yeah, they had some hand in that droichead programme. That's going down well isn't it. http://www.tui.ie/news-events/vote-yes-in-national-ballot-on-droichead-programme-and-peer-evaluation-.10657.html

    :confused:


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    #17
    picturehangup
    Registered Users Posts: 421 ✭✭picturehangup


    @Trekky,
    Steady on, there! This is not a thread about the TC, there is one somewhere if you would bother to go look for it to vent your frustration there, or perhaps you should have commenced a thread re TUI and Peer evaluation/Droichead. Looks like this is the next catfight. TUI members voted 'Yes' to CP and to the acceptance of buttons for extra hours, etc, but still no completely level playing field for NQT's.
    Played right into the hands of the Gov and Unions. Now the TUI/Gov pushing the boundaries further, as they will continue to do, if teachers vote YES to being constantly shafted. Would have been best to keep TUI/INTO occupied with non-involvement with LRA etc! Still glad ASTI held it together, for as long as they did, even though things are far from perfect, with more chaos perhaps looming.
    Can't imagine them balloting us on Peer Evaluation. Would cause more than quite a lot of upset in many a staffroom, but at least ASTI holding out as long does show some back bone, which cannot be said for TUI/INTO

    My original point was not about the TC at all, but merely stating the fact that students have the right to be taught all year round by fully qualified teachers, whether subs or full-time teachers. The TC happen to be the ones who carry out the task of assessing qualifications, the only reason they were mentioned here. I detest the annual letter as much as you, but paying 65EU is better than paying 90Eu a few short years ago.


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    #18
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    It reminds me of the NCT. Look at all the bangers on the road that were knocking about before the NCT, and now you have some bit of confidence that your car is in a relatively good shape (which is better when it comes to buying a secondhand car too).
    So in some respects i think it has been good for the profession, in that it has forced parents/students/principals to ask "Is this person qualified"? It might rule out nepotism a little too as I'm sure we've all heard cases of the son or daughter arriving out of nowhere with no taching qualification and thrown into a class.
    At this stage the TC should be brought back into the department and enough of the promotion and PR nonsense. It's getting a bit insulting being told how great we are but at the same time being cut to the bone and pushed into the 'latest thing' in education.

    Getting back to the original comment about teaching without qualification then I think the point that can be taken away is....
    • Get registered/qualified in at least one subject
    • Try and teach that.
    • If the school needs a timetable filler in any subject (and failing advertising working) then your it.

    If you can't get a teacher then you can't, what's to do.... tell students to switch subjects in 2nd/3rd/5th or 6th year?
    No matter what the TC says... 'needs of the school' will always take precedence.

    Not saying that I agree with it. But it's making the best of a bad hand.


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    #19
    ustazjoseph
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ustazjoseph


    lots of great teachers didn't do a leaving cert. others didn't even qualify in this country
    - small island mentality i fear


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    #20
    Trekky77
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Trekky77


    @picturehangup I suppose the tongue was firmly in cheek with my response but from my viewpoint the only interaction I ever have with the TC is the yearly correspondence over renewal. What exactly is the purpose of it and couldn't as Gebgbegb mentioned it be brought under control of the department.

    Another point, surely once we register with the TC the first time and give all of our qualifications etc. that should ensure we are then registered with the TC from there on out. Why the need to re-register annually? Any changes to qualifications could be added if required.

    Going back to your original point picturehangup. Principals have been known to get part time teachers to teach subjects they are not qualified if and when it suits them.
    One these hours will not count towards their CID as far as I am aware as they need to be qualified in the subject to count towards that.
    Two this gives them more freedom to use the part time teachers for subbing. Three, there are on some occasions simply no teachers in a specific subject available. I know of a school who has had a h.ec teacher go on maternity leave twice over four years and both times her classes covered by a non home ec. teacher for the duration of the maternity leave.

    What is the solution to this problem? I would imagine in the long term make colleges cut down on the places made available for teachers to qualify with subjects that are in very low demand and focus more on the ones crying out for teachers. E.g. maths, home ec. even Irish teachers. There will be no new home ec. teachers qualifying from St. Angela's next year, as it moves from a four year to five year course. Get your head around that (€€€).

    I hope I have given a more reasonable response to your original point this time!


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