Buy house, don't pay mortgage, live rent-free for 9 years. MOD WARNING POST #268

beauf · 15-07-2019 1:47pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Blaming Innocent people ? what does this mean ? ....

..I was baffled by that also.

serfboard · 15-07-2019 1:49pm

Effects wrote: »

Niamh Horan. Always with the quality journalism.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/its-like-being-put-in-the-village-stocks-pamela-flood-breaks-her-silence-on-debt-critics-and-fighting-back-38310536.html

There is a most delicious quote in that article:

wrote:

Asked if the couple have a plan B in the event that they eventually have to leave their home, the former Miss Ireland reveals that she and her husband hope to be allowed to continue to make payments on their home and to stay in it ...
But if that doesn't work, Pamela says the family will have to consider their options, including renting. "As you can imagine with all the coverage, nobody is queuing up to rent to us"

Now in urban areas in the rest of the country, tenants have to queue up to rent from Landlords. But in Ms Floods head, the landlords should be queueing up to rent to her. :rolleyes:

Graham · 15-07-2019 2:01pm

serfboard wrote: »

But in Ms Floods head, the landlords should be queueing up to rent to her. :rolleyes:

It doesn't say that.

Geuze · 15-07-2019 2:35pm

<irrelevent gossip snippped.

Claw Hammer · 15-07-2019 2:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How do you propose a bank repair it's balance sheet for this item?
It has an asset (mortgage given out) that it has received no income from, has had no repayments on, and hasn't been able to get the original money back by seizing the house and selling it.
What value should it put on this asset?

It is not owned by an Irish bank. Things were all right here until that bank poked its nose in and the Irish banks lost the run of themselves.

rivegauche · 15-07-2019 2:57pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It is not owned by an Irish bank. Things were all right here until that bank poked its nose in and the Irish banks lost the run of themselves.

Your definition of "things were alright" would be that those who service mortages in Ireland continue to pay tens of thousands euro extra over the life of their mortgages.

Claw Hammer · 15-07-2019 2:59pm

rivegauche wrote: »

Your definition of "things were alright" would be that those who service mortages in Ireland continue to pay tens of thousands euro extra over the life of their mortgages.

I suppose you think things were alright after they came in and are alright now?

Gimme A Pound · 15-07-2019 5:46pm

It's certainly not right to blame innocent people for anything but which innocent people would these be?

cruizer101 · 16-07-2019 9:38am

So now Pamela has actually come out and said she think there is nothing wrong with not paying her mortgage
Independant.ie

Speaking to the ‘Sunday Independent’, Ms Flood said she and her husband have done nothing wrong.
“Missing mortgage payments is not doing something wrong. If you miss them genuinely because you can’t make the mortgage payment, that is not something wrong.
“It’s not immoral, it’s not even illegal, it’s just missing mortgage payments,” she said.

<SNIP>

Graham · 16-07-2019 9:47am

Mod Note

cruizer101, we expect a reasonable standard of posting here in A & P. Your most recent post does not meet it.

Please improve the standard of your posts if you wish to continue to participate.

ButtersSuki · 16-07-2019 11:37am

cruizer101 wrote: »

So now Pamela has actually come out and said she think there is nothing wrong with not paying her mortgage
Independant.ie

Speaking to the ‘Sunday Independent’, Ms Flood said she and her husband have done nothing wrong.
“Missing mortgage payments is not doing something wrong. If you miss them genuinely because you can’t make the mortgage payment, that is not something wrong.
“It’s not immoral, it’s not even illegal, it’s just missing mortgage payments,” she said.

<SNIP>

She’s implying it was almost an oversight on their part when in fact their actions are quite deliberate. You don’t “miss” or forget to make a payment for more than 9 years.

Lux23 · 16-07-2019 4:30pm

What I don't understand is how they were able to start a business during that time? Did they just use all their money for that and said screw the mortgage?

JDD · 16-07-2019 4:52pm

The reason this whole debacle has lasted for so long is that there were a lot of separate legal issues that happened with Tanagers purchase of Bank of Scotland's loan book. I'd say that has added three years to the litigation.

So I think this is the situation. The economy collapses and you lose your jobs. You're in a nice house that you now can't afford. You continue to make interest payments with a view to entering into a payment arrangement with your bank, but the bank don't accept that any payment arrangement that you are putting forward is sustainable. Those negotiations probably lasted for about 18 months. Back in 2011 they probably thought "well, we're in our late thirties, we've been in mortgage arrears for two years, we're probably never going to get approved for a mortgage again, even if we continue to pay interest. So lets stop paying, let them repossess the house, and we'll stay in it for as long as we can.

Worst case scenario, they repossess in the next 12 months, and we're stuck with the residual debt. Medium case scenario, we hang on for three or four years, the house appreciates in value, they repossess and while we'll be out, at least we won't have the residual debt. Best case scenario, we stay in the house for five years, our personal economic situation improves, the value of the house improves, we can enter into an arrangement with the bank and we all live happily ever after.

Was it immoral? Yes, they broke their contractual arrangements with the bank. Was it the worst thing done by debtors during the crash? No, not when you look at the developers who got paid hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money for managing their own repossessed property portfolios. Is it their fault that BoS or Tanager didn't repossess five years ago? No. Tanager messed up their legal title to the mortgages, and the couple here got the advantage of a couple more years in the house as a result.

They clearly have been saving money over the past nine years. While it's not €345k, because they never would have had the money to pay for that in the first place, it is the amount a small 3 bed in a cheaper area would have cost to rent over the same period, so possibly around €150k. I have no moral qualms about them being repossessed now, I have to say. They were lucky, that's all.

Wtf ? · 16-07-2019 9:14pm

<SNIP>

Nevin Parsnipp · 19-07-2019 7:24am

Graham wrote: »

It doesn't say that.

Probably right..but that situation is of their own doing.

They gave a Court Undertaking to leave the house by an agreed date and have reneged on that apparently....surely this is making a complete mockery of an already overloaded legal system. ??

eagle eye · 19-07-2019 9:24am

So they couldn't meet the repayments for some time.
If that's true and they had a family do you expect them to just leave and live on the street?

Shelflife · 19-07-2019 9:30am

No , you expect them to find a place to rent that is within their means , they have had ample time to sort it out.

If the bailiffs come along now and turf them out on the street , they only have themselves to blame.

splinter65 · 19-07-2019 9:35am

eagle eye wrote: »

So they couldn't meet the repayments for some time.
If that's true and they had a family do you expect them to just leave and live on the street?

They got 3 months to find somewhere else.
How much time do they need?
They’ve loads of money saved up because they haven’t paid any rent or mortgage for 9 years.
He’s got tonnes of family in Thurles.
They can rent a place here and the train service to Dublin is excellent.
He can commute daily.
Loads of good schools and cousins for his kids here.
That’s just one solution.

nthclare · 19-07-2019 9:43am

How dare anyone suggest this attractive looking couple should pay for things like the rest of us.
They have good looking friends I'm sure they all don't have to pay for anything either.

And for people to be upset because this charming couple had gotten away with it, do ye not realize who they are and the influential circles they rub shoulders with ?

I'm outraged about the fact that people can't pretend this isn't happening, it's shocking...

They're to be looked up to and put on a pedestal for how important they are....

lawred2 · 19-07-2019 10:03am

eagle eye wrote: »

So they couldn't meet the repayments for some time.
If that's true and they had a family do you expect them to just leave and live on the street?

:rolleyes:

eagle eye · 19-07-2019 12:34pm

splinter65 wrote:

They got 3 months to find somewhere else. How much time do they need? Theyâ€™ve loads of money saved up because they havenâ€™t paid any rent or mortgage for 9 years. Heâ€™s got tonnes of family in Thurles. They can rent a place here and the train service to Dublin is excellent. He can commute daily. Loads of good schools and cousins for his kids here. Thatâ€™s just one solution.

Have they got money?

handlemaster · 19-07-2019 12:55pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So they couldn't meet the repayments for some time.
If that's true and they had a family do you expect them to just leave and live on the street?

All a bit innocent on your behalf.. Good fund me page perhaps ðŸ˜‚

Gatling · 19-07-2019 12:58pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Have they got money?

Apparently yes he runs a successful catering business I'd hazard a guess she's earning too.

nthclare · 19-07-2019 1:56pm

Graham · 19-07-2019 2:52pm

Mod Note

The standard of posting on this thread is way below acceptable for the accommodation & property forum.

If you're just posting to be a d**k or a smart arse, take it somewhere else.

Do not reply to this post on thread.

nthclare · 19-07-2019 3:17pm

Graham wrote: »

Mod Note

The standard of posting on this thread is way below acceptable for the accommodation & property forum.

If you're just posting to be a d**k or a smart arse, take it somewhere else.

Do not reply to this post on thread.

My note to you is, it's after hours.
Some people have a sense of humour.
I appreciate you have a job to do.
But if we can't have a bit of banter about factual information and news.

Where else can we have the bants.....

Oh dear my mistake sorry for the mistake....

I'll walk away from this

Graham · 19-07-2019 3:39pm

nthclare wrote: »

My note to you is, it's after hours.

Please check what forum you are posting in.

nc6000 · 20-07-2019 8:13pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Have they got money?

Their Lacanche cooker featured in the Irish Times Life & Style article would have cost at least €6,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/at-home-with-pamela-flood-i-am-a-total-hoarder-1.3333531

pc7 · 21-07-2019 7:22am

The media sob story continues https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/pamela-was-being-rushed-to-surgery-while-they-were-setting-up-our-house-viewings-38330942.html

handlemaster · 21-07-2019 7:47am

pc7 wrote: »

The media sob story continues https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/pamela-was-being-rushed-to-surgery-while-they-were-setting-up-our-house-viewings-38330942.html

This sounds terrible. Cleaning your house for a viewing. We are not throwing all the sob stories from the last nine years into the mix to get the public on side. Id have put up with having to get out of the house for two hours on a saturday to live without having to pay a mortgage for 9 years. Sounds great this.

sassyj · 21-07-2019 7:56am

They also continued to have children when they clearly couldn't afford to. Like a lot of people in this country, a great sense of entitlement. I'd love to see where they went on holidays each year of the 9 years

pc7 · 21-07-2019 8:08am

Are they trying to put off prospective buyers? Or garner sympathy, I just can’t fathom their goal.

irishgeo · 21-07-2019 8:22am

I love how he says it's his home. It's not mate it's the bank house. It's not your home until you get the title deeds.

TSQ · 21-07-2019 10:39am

nc6000 wrote: »

Their Lacanche cooker featured in the Irish Times Life & Style article would have cost at least €6,000.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/at-home-with-pamela-flood-i-am-a-total-hoarder-1.3333531

Hope the bank is making notes on the artworks and expensive furnishings to be seized

TSQ · 21-07-2019 10:52am

pc7 wrote: »

Are they trying to put off prospective buyers? Or garner sympathy, I just can’t fathom their goal.

Yeah..”She brought the kids to the park in the middle of winter and stayed there for four hours while they showed the house." (Sob)

Like, as if any house viewing is scheduled to last more than 30 minutes. What a load of old cobblers. But it wouldnt be a housing sob story without bringing “de poor childer” into it.

handlemaster · 21-07-2019 1:37pm

Is his business still going ?.has there been no income earned in 9 years ?

Claw Hammer · 23-07-2019 11:36am

irishgeo wrote: »

I love how he says it's his home. It's not mate it's the bank house. It's not your home until you get the title deeds.

It is his home while he lives in it. The issue of title is irrelevant.

vriesmays · 23-07-2019 7:04pm

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/pamela-flood-and-ronan-ryan-facing-prison-within-48-hours-for-breaching-court-orders-over-home-938875.html

irishgeo · 23-07-2019 7:41pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

irishgeo wrote: »

I love how he says it's his home. It's not mate it's the bank house. It's not your home until you get the title deeds.

It is his home while he lives in it. The issue of title is irrelevant.

The law disagrees with you.

beauf · 23-07-2019 8:06pm

irishgeo wrote: »

The law disagrees with you.

Is there a legal definition of home?

eagle eye · 23-07-2019 8:13pm

I love how people are on the side of vultures.

Wtf ? · 23-07-2019 8:23pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I love how people are on the side of vultures.

I am not generally, But the only way vultures buy,get your loan is if you are not paying,not engaging with the lender, generally acting the b---ix really. Throw them to the dogs.

Atlantic Dawn · 23-07-2019 8:26pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I love how people are on the side of vultures.

If someone doesn't pay 1 cent towards their mortgage for a period of 1 year then I am on the side of the vultures every single time.

beauf · 23-07-2019 8:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I love how people are on the side of vultures.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Because in this case the fund gave them a deal they couldn't get from a bank.
The fund allowed them to stay in the property as part of the deal.
The fund was wiping any outstanding debt. A deal they'd never got from a bank.

Was there a better option than the fund on the table at any point?

dubrov · 23-07-2019 8:33pm

eagle eye wrote:

I love how people are on the side of vultures.

I disagree. Most people don't seem to be supporting the couple at all

eagle eye · 23-07-2019 8:39pm

dubrov wrote:

I disagree. Most people don't seem to be supporting the couple at all

I doubt I could explain to you all that you need to understand.

eagle eye · 23-07-2019 8:42pm

It's a vulture fund, says it all really.
I'm not saying these people deserve to keep the house but if a bank can't do their own business and sell it to a despicable crowd like this them I'm changing sides immediately.

beauf · 23-07-2019 8:54pm

eagle eye wrote: »

It's a vulture fund, says it all really.
I'm not saying these people deserve to keep the house but if a bank can't do their own business and sell it to a despicable crowd like this them I'm changing sides immediately.

You need to explain your comment.

Whats you're issue with Funds, especially in this specific case.

irishgeo · 23-07-2019 8:56pm

beauf wrote: »

irishgeo wrote: »

The law disagrees with you.

Is there a legal definition of home?

No but there is a legal definition of if you haven't paid for it you don't own it.

eagle eye · 23-07-2019 9:10pm

beauf wrote:

Whats you're issue with Funds, especially in this specific case.

Because of exactly what they are, they prey on the weak or struggling.

Buy house, don't pay mortgage, live rent-free for 9 years. MOD WARNING POST #268

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