Do fighters these days fight too seldom?

normanoffside · 22-07-2019 10:51pm #1

Just looking at Mike Tyson's record now.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/474

Back when he was 'up and coming' he had 2 x 10 round fights withing 2 weeks of each other, his first distance fights (against Tillis and Green). He then won the title after having tune up fights evry 2- 3 weeks and continued to have more or less a fight a month up until unifying all the HW titles.
After that he had a defence every 2-3 months before losing.

The question is do guys these days fight too seldom?

I think Joshua in particular has gone from a guy fighting every few months to one who fights 3 times every two years and it has really upset his rhythm. Surely they should be always in camp and always ready for the next one?

boxer.fan · 23-07-2019 2:15pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Just looking at Mike Tyson's record now.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/474

Back when he was 'up and coming' he had 2 x 10 round fights withing 2 weeks of each other, his first distance fights (against Tillis and Green). He then won the title after having tune up fights evry 2- 3 weeks and continued to have more or less a fight a month up until unifying all the HW titles.
After that he had a defence every 2-3 months before losing.

The question is do guys these days fight too seldom?

I think Joshua in particular has gone from a guy fighting every few months to one who fights 3 times every two years and it has really upset his rhythm. Surely they should be always in camp and always ready for the next one?

I would say yes, they do fight too seldom.

Twice a year seems to be the optimum nowadays in terms of fighter profile & money draw.

megadodge · 23-07-2019 9:04pm

Whether fighters today fight too seldom or not, using Mike Tyson's early career is a false example.

Even back then everyone was amazed at how often he was fighting. He was a very hot prospect and was blowing the usual suspects out in quick time, but that was very much the exception at the time and for a long time before that too.

There was a very good reason for it - his extra-curricular acitivities. Tyson's handlers knew they had to keep him busy, because if they didn't he'd find other (often illegal) ways to occupy himself. Once he was training and fighting he didn't have time to get into trouble. And it really is that simple. There are plenty of interviews on the subject that you can find which back that up.

However, if you look at Jack Dempsey's reign as heavyweight champ, he made his first defense 14 months after winning the title. Then he defended it three times in nearly two years. After the Firpo bout he didn't defend the title for a whole THREE years, when he lost it to Tunney. Their rematch was a full year later. Then Tunney defended 10 months after that.

Rocky Marciano defended his title six times in three years. Two fights a year.

Tyson was an aberration, especially by 1980s standards.

normanoffside · 23-07-2019 10:34pm

megadodge wrote: »

Whether fighters today fight too seldom or not, using Mike Tyson's early career is a false example.

Even back then everyone was amazed at how often he was fighting. He was a very hot prospect and was blowing the usual suspects out in quick time, but that was very much the exception at the time and for a long time before that too.

There was a very good reason for it - his extra-curricular acitivities. Tyson's handlers knew they had to keep him busy, because if they didn't he'd find other (often illegal) ways to occupy himself. Once he was training and fighting he didn't have time to get into trouble. And it really is that simple. There are plenty of interviews on the subject that you can find which back that up.

I agree on this point but the same could be said for many modern fighters. If they were fighting more they would have less time to be 'distracted'. They would also have more time in camp and more training to improve their skills.

megadodge wrote: »

However, if you look at Jack Dempsey's reign as heavyweight champ, he made his first defense 14 months after winning the title. Then he defended it three times in nearly two years. After the Firpo bout he didn't defend the title for a whole THREE years, when he lost it to Tunney. Their rematch was a full year later. Then Tunney defended 10 months after that.

Yes this seems to have been a trend in the early 20th century but in the middle of the century lots of fighters would fight every few weeks, often champions would have non-tile 'over weight' fights.

Look at sugar ray Robinson he first fought Jake La motta in late 1942 when he was was 35-0 and last fought him in early 1951 when He was 121-1-2. That's 90 flights in less than 9 years when he was at his peak. More than 10 fights per year.

I just think nowadays that guys like AJ with less than 25 Pro Fights should be fighting more often. AJ will likely end up with less than 30 pro fights total, even guys like Wlad had 60+

SHOVELLER · 27-07-2019 2:44pm

Gary Russell Jnr

Mr Regal · 27-09-2019 10:16pm

Henry Armstrong held three world titles simultaneously. He fought about 13 or 14 times in 1942 alone.
Enough said.

Current defences of titles for the pay days they receive compared to the golden eras. A disgrace.

megadodge · 28-09-2019 6:38pm

Maybe you should look into some recent reports on brain damage in boxing. Very good article on it in this week's Boxing News magazine.

The more you fight the more you risk your health.
The more you fight the more punches you take.
The more punches you take the more the risk of brain damage and various other neurological conditions.

The fighters of yesteryear had to fight more often because they were treated like sh*t and paid pittance. If they didn't fight every few weeks they had no money. That's the real disgrace!

normanoffside · 28-09-2019 6:58pm

megadodge wrote: »

Maybe you should look into some recent reports on brain damage in boxing. Very good article on it in this week's Boxing News magazine.

The more you fight the more you risk your health.
The more you fight the more punches you take.
The more punches you take the more the risk of brain damage and various other neurological conditions.

The fighters of yesteryear had to fight more often because they were treated like sh*t and paid pittance. If they didn't fight every few weeks they had no money. That's the real disgrace!

There has to be a balance though. Surely 3-4 fights a year for Champions would be more optimal?

megadodge · 28-09-2019 10:42pm

normanoffside wrote: »

There has to be a balance though. Surely 3-4 fights a year for Champions would be more optimal?

I was more replying to the post prior to mine. Fighters fought so often back in the Depression era and for a decade or two after purely to have enough to eat. A huge amount of them ended up penniless and punch drunk.

With the really big names now, like Joshua and Canelo there is such a huge hoopla and sense of occasion about their fights I'd imagine it's only viable from the promotional logistics point of view to have 2-3 fights a year.

normanoffside · 28-09-2019 10:46pm

megadodge wrote: »

I was more replying to the post prior to mine. Fighters fought so often back in the Depression era and for a decade or two after purely to have enough to eat. A huge amount of them ended up penniless and punch drunk.

With the really big names now, like Joshua and Canelo there is such a huge hoopla and sense of occasion about their fights I'd imagine it's only viable from the promotional logistics point of view to have 2-3 fights a year.

But they don't have 2-3 fights a year, they have 1 or 2.

A lot of guys when they hit championship level have too long lay offs between fights and have to get back in shape/make weight.

I think AJ is the perfect example, he has gone backwards in the last few years, he used to fight very regularly and was going camp to camp which kept him sharp IMO.

Sheridan81 · 30-09-2019 3:45pm

Never mind how often they fight it's who they're fighting that's the problem. Stop avoiding each other and give us some entertainment you wimps!*

*Don't tell them I called them wimps.

walshb · 30-09-2019 4:00pm

Sheridan81 wrote: »

Never mind how often they fight it's who they're fighting that's the problem. Stop avoiding each other and give us some entertainment you wimps!*

*Don't tell them I called them wimps.

So true....

It really is stomach churning the amount of stalling and fudging and deflection in the sport....

Nika Bolokov · 16-10-2019 8:25pm

Read a book about Deontay Wilder I got on Amazon.

Seems he fought nearly every two months starting out, even up until recently he was prolific but in the last year he hasnt really done much.

Do fighters these days fight too seldom?

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