Next governments affect on housing market

odyssey06 · 13-02-2020 10:09am

Dav010 wrote: »

Not only is it not morally correct, it is not legally correct if there is a signed TERM contract, during the term of that contract.

But in the case of Part 4 tenancies, not only is it legally, but also morally correct to evict a tenant if a family member needs it. The LLs need trumps the tenants in this case as the LL is the owner.

It is hard to argue that the RTA benefits and protects tenants more than it does LLs, so if the owner is acting in accordance with the RTA, then they should not be criticised for exercising their rights.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to prove the legitimacy of the 'need' for the family member, or even their existence

It was inevitable that some LLs would use this loophole and inevitable that they would be a backlash against it.
But SF seem to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if they rid of all the valid reasons for eviction.

Geuze · 13-02-2020 10:13am

Fann Linn wrote: »

4% are non working according to FG. Almost full employment.

The vast majority of non-workers are not unemployed.

They are on DA, OPFP, CA, etc.

They are also SAHP.

We have low unemployment, yet we lead Europe in joblessness.

Numerical example:

Country A has 100 adults, 60 in labour market, 57 at work, 3 unemployed.

So 5% unemployment, great, very low.

Country B has 100 adults, 70 in labour market, 63 at work, 7 unemployed.

So 10% unemployment, but more people at work and a higher employment-population rate.

Ireland is like country A - low unemployment, but very high joblessness.

Geuze · 13-02-2020 10:16am

Fol20 wrote: »

What is Germans social system and why is it better than our own - genuinely interested as I don’t know

First 12 months of unemployment = 60% - 67% of your former net wage

After that, dole, known as Hartz IV = approx 100 euro per week.

Actually 424 pm.

https://hartziv.info/en/ratgeber/hartz-iv-regelbedarf#single/0

Geuze · 13-02-2020 10:20am

Fol20 wrote: »

What is Germans social system and why is it better than our own - genuinely interested as I don’t know

Much more emphasis on social insurance, less on social assistance.

Fol20 · 13-02-2020 10:22am

Geuze wrote: »

First 12 months of unemployment = 60% - 67% of your former net wage

After that, dole, known as Hartz IV = approx 100 euro per week.

Actually 424 pm.

https://hartziv.info/en/ratgeber/hartz-iv-regelbedarf#single/0

That seems much fairer although I could see some going back o work for a few months then going unemployed again and the cycle continues.

J_1980 · 13-02-2020 10:41am

Fann Linn wrote: »

4% are non working according to FG. Almost full employment.

Copy paste from propertpin forum

Broad Jobless Rate:

If we add the total Live Register rate + Live Register Activation Programmes, the broad jobless rate stands at 9.5%

[183,900 (January 2020) + 48,555 (December 2019)/ 2,454,900 per Labour Force Survey Q3 2019]

Its 10% not 4%
In a country with labour shortages. Total joke of a kip.
Luckily I’m a foreigner on SARP relief. Would bolt here in a second without it.

The Student · 13-02-2020 10:42am

Fol20 wrote: »

That seems much fairer although I could see some going back o work for a few months then going unemployed again and the cycle continues.

I would completely agree with the German model, at least those who contribute most actually get a fairer share of their actual contributions rather than our system which takes no account of the value of your contributions.

J_1980 · 13-02-2020 10:43am

Fol20 wrote: »

What is Germans social system and why is it better than our own - genuinely interested as I don’t know

https://m.dw.com/en/german-issues-in-a-nutshell-hartz-iv/a-39061709

In a nutshell:

The clear intent of the Hartz IV package is to avoid making life too comfortable for benefits recipients, and to nudge or push them into employment - even if poorly paid. This is reflected in the government's Hartz IV slogan: ‘Fördern und Fordern,’ i.e. support recipients, yet make demands on them, in the manner of a stern parent.

The next recession will wipe the friendly smile of the irish middle class. Will be brutal, but I can’t wait.

Fol20 · 13-02-2020 10:49am

J_1980 wrote: »

https://m.dw.com/en/german-issues-in-a-nutshell-hartz-iv/a-39061709

In a nutshell:

The clear intent of the Hartz IV package is to avoid making life too comfortable for benefits recipients, and to nudge or push them into employment - even if poorly paid. This is reflected in the government's Hartz IV slogan: ‘Fördern und Fordern,’ i.e. support recipients, yet make demands on them, in the manner of a stern parent.

The next recession will wipe the friendly smile of the irish middle class. Will be brutal, but I can’t wait.

Why do you want the hard middle to get hurt. It should be the people who refuse to work.

The Student · 13-02-2020 10:50am

J_1980 wrote: »

https://m.dw.com/en/german-issues-in-a-nutshell-hartz-iv/a-39061709

In a nutshell:

The clear intent of the Hartz IV package is to avoid making life too comfortable for benefits recipients, and to nudge or push them into employment - even if poorly paid. This is reflected in the government's Hartz IV slogan: ‘Fördern und Fordern,’ i.e. support recipients, yet make demands on them, in the manner of a stern parent.

The next recession will wipe the friendly smile of the irish middle class. Will be brutal, but I can’t wait.

Will be very interesting to see what happens. Ironically just read in the Irish Independent that neither Finna Fail or Finna Gael will go into govt with SF.

Looks like we are going to have another election so! Interesting times ahead.

J_1980 · 13-02-2020 10:51am

Fol20 wrote: »

Why do you want the hard middle to get hurt. It should be the people who refuse to work.

Yes, but the middle always vote and whine for social justice.
Alimenting the bottom 20% too generously always punishes the middle class. See France, the yellow vests are all solid middle class and sick of high taxes, high costs and no public services. You won’t see yellow vest protests in the banlieue satellite cities of Paris.

J_1980 · 13-02-2020 10:55am

The Student wrote: »

Will be very interesting to see what happens. Ironically just read in the Irish Independent that neither Finna Fail or Finna Gael will go into govt with SF.

Looks like we are going to have another election so! Interesting times ahead.

Doesn’t matter. Even the free market parties (fffg) have an excessive soft spot for welfare (5er more, Xmas bonus etc). People want that, and it’s without consequences in a boom. Payday is the recession.
€120bn debt was just excessive government spending and nothing to do with bank bailout. That’ll happen again.

Fol20 · 13-02-2020 11:02am

J_1980 wrote: »

Yes, but the middle always vote and whine for social justice.
Alimenting the bottom 20% too generously always punishes the middle class. See France, the yellow vests are all solid middle class and sick of high taxes, high costs and no public services. You won’t see yellow vest protests in the banlieue satellite cities of Paris.

Excuse my ignorance but why won’t you see them protest in satellite cities?

The Student · 13-02-2020 11:05am

J_1980 wrote: »

Doesn’t matter. Even the free market parties (fffg) have an excessive soft spot for welfare (5er more, Xmas bonus etc). People want that, and it’s without consequences in a boom. Payday is the recession.
€120bn debt was just excessive government spending and nothing to do with bank bailout. That’ll happen again.

This may well be so but I would prefer FF or FG rather than those on the left. FF/FG actually see the economic reality of Ireland being an open economy and the need for FDI.

J_1980 · 13-02-2020 11:07am

Fol20 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but why won’t you see them protest in satellite cities?

satellite cities have high unemployment and largely rely on welfare (not dissimilar to some areas in Ireland) .
They don’t feel the pain of the people bankrolling it all.

Lofidelity · 13-02-2020 11:11am

Some in the industry are saying that demand is being met and supply of new builds will be reduced.

PommieBast · 13-02-2020 11:23am

The Student wrote: »

Exactly what is the definition of not working? how many are on courses who are "not working" how many are not making any income tax contributions?

Apparently one of the reasons why French youth unemployment is so high is because they define "unemployed" as "not employed", rather than something like NEET.

Mad_maxx · 13-02-2020 12:32pm

Fol20 wrote: »

Why do you want the hard middle to get hurt. It should be the people who refuse to work.

Socialists hate the middle class,always have, they hate them for not having ever gotten behind the red cause, you can't have a successful revolution without the middle class , they view the working class as helpless

Assetbacked · 13-02-2020 12:40pm

The Student wrote: »

Will be very interesting to see what happens. Ironically just read in the Irish Independent that neither Finna Fail or Finna Gael will go into govt with SF.

Looks like we are going to have another election so! Interesting times ahead.

Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

The Student · 13-02-2020 1:48pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

Agreed it is more a political point and I agree there housing situation is improving. I will leave the politics to the appropriate thread.

odyssey06 · 13-02-2020 1:52pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.
The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

Given time and good weather in terms of the global economic situation yes. I think the policies would start to bear fruit.

But the other risk is they go into together, there's a global economic recession OR some sort of catastrophe like coronavirus which cripples the health service - and at the next election SF have almost an overall majority...

* Will leave it at that as don't want to go off topic

Mad_maxx · 13-02-2020 2:29pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Whilst more of a political thread topic, why would FF and FG not go into government again together? I really think the groundwork of the past 3 years will start to show in housing and, combined with a kick up the arse from the election just gone with respect to housing, whoever is in government between now and the next election will reap the rewards.

The risk of another election is SF running more candidates and doing even better!

SF would love to see FF and FG form a coalition, as would the rest of the parties

Ray Palmer · 13-02-2020 3:19pm

The Student wrote: »

Your post reads that you can't and then goes on to say well actually you can in certain circumstances.

The following shows that attachment orders are available. http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefitshttp://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

It would not be unreasonable to assume that those not working and in receipt of social welfare would be claiming all available benefits some of which would not be "ring fenced".

For those working the attachment would be placed on their income from employment.

I would rather stop the rot now rather than do nothing about it.

You think an order of €3 a week is a real consequence? I have explained that what you think will happen is not what will happen. If they do get a court order by a applying individual cases it costs more than they will ever get back and over a completely unrealistic time period.

There are people who owe 10s of thousands and the are paying it back at €3 a week. Never ever to pay it off. This is the reality.

Don't believe me if you don't want

J_1980 · 14-02-2020 10:56am

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices

)

Fann Linn · 14-02-2020 11:00am

J_1980 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices )

Maria B
Dara
Regina

Mick Wallace.

Yep. It's a kip.
And plenty from all parties getting elected who shouldn't.

PommieBast · 14-02-2020 11:39am

J_1980 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/
Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices )

Admittedly I am not sure what I hate more - the TD in question or the Murdoch-owned rag reporting it.. :rolleyes:

Assetbacked · 14-02-2020 11:52am

J_1980 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices )

Dara Murphy of FG was multiple times worse as he was an elected representative abusing the system but they're both pathetic excuses for representatives.

The fact that the normal rent is €19000+ per annum in Dublin shows how devastating the last few years of "growth" have been. There are plenty who feel the benefits of the alleged recovery (not really sure if it is a recovery given our debt is still increasing) but at a severe cost to those caught in the rental system.

Claw Hammer · 14-02-2020 12:42pm

J_1980 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices )

She wasn't elected on the First count!

Cuddlesworth · 14-02-2020 12:44pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You think an order of €3 a week is a real consequence? I have explained that what you think will happen is not what will happen. If they do get a court order by a applying individual cases it costs more than they will ever get back and over a completely unrealistic time period.

There are people who owe 10s of thousands and the are paying it back at €3 a week. Never ever to pay it off. This is the reality.

Don't believe me if you don't want

The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.

cosybeach · 14-02-2020 12:45pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

Dara Murphy of FG was multiple times worse as he was an elected representative abusing the system but they're both pathetic excuses for representatives.

The fact that the normal rent is €19000+ per annum in Dublin shows how devastating the last few years of "growth" have been. There are plenty who feel the benefits of the alleged recovery (not really sure if it is a recovery given our debt is still increasing) but at a severe cost to those caught in the rental system.

Is DM a rent defaulter?
Your comparison with rent in Dublin doesn’t have anything to do with this new scumbag TD who refused to pay rent to a charity in a rural area not subject to a similar high rent in Dublin
Not all rents in Dublin are high it is a popular media hype in fact many are still below market we did have a 2 year rent freeze 3 years ago so we know its effect....
High rents are a symptom of risk “non-payment of rent” and short supply and left policies are proven not to work only reduce supply.
when the multinationals leave there will be low rents again.

Cuddlesworth · 14-02-2020 12:55pm

J_1980 wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Someone like this gets elected on first count. This kip is a joke. Optional mortgage and rent payments.
#Recession2022 please come. Middle class Ireland needs to feel the pain of their poor choices )

Jesus, its a rag but the entire story is amazing.

Elected as a TD to a party who based their policies on housing issues.
For 4 years, didn't pay 63 Euros a week for a family of 5, including partner.
Got evicted from a private social housing org which is near impossible.
Org went bankrupt after, due to funding issues.
Former* anti Vaxxer(the pinnacle of human stupidity at the moment).

Perfect spokesperson for any SF housing policies.

garhjw · 14-02-2020 1:23pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Jesus, its a rag but the entire story is amazing.

Elected as a TD to a party who based their policies on housing issues.
For 4 years, didn't pay 63 Euros a week for a family of 5, including partner.
Got evicted from a private social housing org which is near impossible.
Org went bankrupt after, due to funding issues.
Former* anti Vaxxer(the pinnacle of human stupidity at the moment).

Perfect spokesperson for any SF housing policies.

As bad as this 1 is she is likely not the worst of them to have been elected.

Ray Palmer · 14-02-2020 1:30pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.

All true but apparently I just made it up according to the other guy.

Subutai · 14-02-2020 4:51pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The funniest part about getting 3-5 Euro a week court orders on social welfare recipients is that they don't have to pay it. You can't take it directly from their social welfare payments, so you have go back to court and get a enforcement order.

It's a simple matter of sitting back for like 7 years, then go back to court, pay 1k+ in fees and maybe recoup 1k.

Morally or financially, pursuing arrears from social welfare recipients is just plain stupid.

It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

Assetbacked · 14-02-2020 5:01pm

cosybeach wrote: »

Is DM a rent defaulter?
Your comparison with rent in Dublin doesn’t have anything to do with this new scumbag TD who refused to pay rent to a charity in a rural area not subject to a similar high rent in Dublin
Not all rents in Dublin are high it is a popular media hype in fact many are still below market we did have a 2 year rent freeze 3 years ago so we know its effect....
High rents are a symptom of risk “non-payment of rent” and short supply and left policies are proven not to work only reduce supply.
when the multinationals leave there will be low rents again.

Of course they won't leave. At best, there will be a slowdown in expanding or some job losses whereby staff will just move on elsewhere.

The more long term picture is the expense of social housing that will be required to look after all those people who were not able to buy their own home due to the ongoing rental crisis.

Ray Palmer · 14-02-2020 5:49pm

Subutai wrote: »

It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.

beggars_bush · 14-02-2020 6:34pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.

In other words, people pay what they are meant to pay

When did this culture of not paying for stuff in Ireland take hold?

Cuddlesworth · 14-02-2020 6:44pm

Subutai wrote: »

It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

Interesting. If I am reading this right, you have to go to the district court and prove they have the means to pay it to get the order right?

Assuming its successful, what's the ROI on the solicitor fees for that?

14-02-2020 8:05pm

Subutai wrote: »

It can be taken directly from their Social Welfare payments. One can seek an attachment of earnings order on their social welfare payments. This reform was introduced in 2015.

http://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/attachment-of-earnings-and-benefits/

No Government is going to sanction an attachment to SW payments for rent owed. Anti-landlords sentiment is to strong for that to be considered. Landlords are “greedy”, no politician wants to be seen to be on their side yet many politicians are also LLs. In the eyes of many, LLs are a necessary evil, everyone acknowledges they are essential for the rental sector to exist, but they should not profit from their service. It’s bonkers, it is almost that they should operate as benevolent providers for the masses.

Subutai · 14-02-2020 8:11pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You really aren't understanding what is being said here nor the link you are posting.

There are tons of caluses there. What that says is the judge takes into consideration income and responsibilities. So like I said it will mean any court order will be for a minuscule amount over a very long period. The debt is never paid off and it costs more than will ever be paid back.

You are talking about an ideal when we are talking about reality and real world effects. I worked on this I know it inside out. I know the reason for the law change. Very simple it was so they could enforce LPT and water charges. It wasn't to recover other debts. Relatively small amounts that could be deducted every year and force compliance.

I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Interesting. If I am reading this right, you have to go to the district court and prove they have the means to pay it to get the order right?

Assuming its successful, what's the ROI on the solicitor fees for that?

You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.

Dav010 wrote: »

No Government is going to sanction an attachment to SW payments for rent owed. Anti-landlords sentiment is to strong for that to be considered. Landlords are “greedy”, no politician wants to be seen to be on their side yet many politicians are also LLs. In the eyes of many, LLs are a necessary evil, everyone acknowledges they are essential for the rental sector to exist, but they should not profit from their service. It’s bonkers, it is almost that they should operate as benevolent providers for the masses.

Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.

14-02-2020 8:32pm

Subutai wrote: »

I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.
You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.
Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.

It isn’t a rant. When seeking an attachment to SW payments, regard must be had to the debtor’s particular circumstances including financial circumstances. Deductions may not be made to the extent that they would cause the net scheme payments to the judgement debtor to fall below a certain level. No judge would allow SW payment to fall below the level necessary for an individual/family to get by.

Governments enact legislation for the judiciary. No Government would introduce legislation that makes it mandatory for SW to pat rent owed to LLs on the basis of an application only being made.

Ray Palmer · 14-02-2020 8:34pm

Subutai wrote: »

I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.

Yes you are right it can be done. Can't be changed to actually happen in any practical way

You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.

Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.

In all practical and realistically terms it is pointless. Like saying you will be fined for speeding every time but you have to be caught and then prosecuted and if you go to the court if you object and the garda has to turn up. It like a very elaborate locking mechanism. Things have to really really line up

J_1980 · 15-02-2020 7:15am

Jacinda Ardern progressive government....interesting read

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned

It has halted the sale of public housing and banned foreign buyers, but the wait for a state house is at a record high and tens of millions of dollars are being spent on emergency motel rooms to house the growing homeless population.

Restrictive and time-consuming building regulations, the high cost of land and a shortage of skilled labourers also contributed to the failure of the scheme. The high cost of the homes billed as “affordable” also turned off people, with two-bedroom homes going for upwards of NZ$500,000.

Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland?
Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be “build cheaply” in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein won’t solve anything.

Wanderer78 · 15-02-2020 9:52am

J_1980 wrote:

Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland? Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be â€œbuild cheaplyâ€ in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein wonâ€™t solve anything.

Again sf aren't in government yet, and it's looking unlikely they will be, so people truly need to relax, normal ffg service will probably resume soon

Mad_maxx · 15-02-2020 11:55am

J_1980 wrote: »

Jacinda Ardern progressive government....interesting read

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned

It has halted the sale of public housing and banned foreign buyers, but the wait for a state house is at a record high and tens of millions of dollars are being spent on emergency motel rooms to house the growing homeless population.

Restrictive and time-consuming building regulations, the high cost of land and a shortage of skilled labourers also contributed to the failure of the scheme. The high cost of the homes billed as “affordable” also turned off people, with two-bedroom homes going for upwards of NZ$500,000.

Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland?
Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be “build cheaply” in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein won’t solve anything.

House prices in new Zealand are way higher than in Ireland to boot

Fol20 · 15-02-2020 2:18pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

House prices in new Zealand are way higher than in Ireland to boot

It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

The_Conductor · 15-02-2020 2:34pm

Fol20 wrote: »

It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

Not massively- the median income in NZ last year was EUR52k, versus EUR48k here. The big difference is taxation- in Ireland we have a marginal rate of taxation that tops out at 52% (when you factor PRSI/USC etc into the equation) whereas in NZ its a much more manageable 33% (though their rate of Corporation tax is three times ours).

Its a game of swings and roundabouts.

J_1980 · 15-02-2020 3:37pm

Fol20 wrote: »

It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=12172282

Figures show the median annual income for a New Zealand man working full-time is $56,700 and for a woman that amount is almost $10,000 less, at $47,500, according to the latest available income statistics from Stats NZ.

$56.7k is €33k median. Sounds the same as Ireland, taxes are low here to at that income band. House prices are indeed higher and puts Ireland in perspective. In Ireland everything has to be free and paid by others - If not it’s greed.

woohoo!!! · 15-02-2020 4:12pm

Very good thread on the type of housing that should be persued
https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty/status/1228639214268538885?s=19

Mad_maxx · 15-02-2020 4:13pm

Fol20 wrote: »

It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

even in small towns , house prices are very high in new zealand , not the case in ireland

building standards far lower than here too

Next governments affect on housing market

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