Tiny Homes

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 13-02-2020 7:45pm

Bit cynical wrote: »

Main problem seems to be the regulations which probably need updating.

There are a couple of loopholes I've heard of that you can use to buy land and obtain planning. I don't want to get too specific but basically if you can justify your purchase of the property due to your value to the local area, that will be advantageous. Then if you have a temporary structure on the land for a certain period of time, then subject to planning, you can begin to develop it for the required purpose.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

People have already gone through this numerous times. If you must prove it to yourself go for it but you are going to be just trying to come up with a theory how it will be legal. Whatever you discover will not change reality. There are people living in them but at any point the council can arrive and say take it down. If you try to sell it you will be lucky and it will be a huge loss if you do.

Thanks for the input. You might want to relax a small bit. I'm not about to dive headfirst a bad investment. We're examining our options and I was looking for a bit of advice, which you've been good enough to give and I appreciate it.

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

The back and forth is lovely but useless to the OP in ireland in 2020.

Tiny homes or log cabins contravene planning and do not meet building regs.

The council could have you demolish it at any stage.
They may or may not be safe in fire.
The seller will be long paid and long gone

You're right about that and it's definitely something to bear in mind. A camper van would be a lot more economical, safe and cost effective when you square up the two options.

This thread got very impassioned. It's not surprising, given the fact that sourcing a home is such an immense undertaking these days. There was an article in the paper the other day about a poet or writer or someone in a Gaeltacht area who had land belonging to his family and I think he couldn't get planning to develop the small modular structure he had on it because of the regulations they have around rural builds. His was a particularly isolated locality, I wish I could remember enough to search for the article because it's so relevant.

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 7:45pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

The founds for one would cost minimal money anyway.

It's getting a one off prefab up to modern building regs that is the really costly issue.

Remember the social housing modular build fiasco?

I did see an eco kit house which was energy free passive house. It was imported from Germany and put on concrete blocks. No foundations. A fella I knew in Wicklow.

Plumbthedepths · 13-02-2020 7:46pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

For what reason. People do what 'they' want not what you think they should.

People live in modular and log cabins or timber house around the world. So how come they aren't any good?

The idea of arsing around in mud for 6 months building a house out of thousands of little pieces is so prehistoric it is beyond a joke.

Houses just like everything else should be made in factories efficiently out of suitable materials and assembled in a few days on site.

The idiocy of what we do now and the costs just do not make sense.

We do what we do now due to regulations and planning law, neither of which will be changed just because someting....somewhere..... Feel free to come back to real world when you get a chance.

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 7:58pm

Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »

There are a couple of loopholes I've heard of that you can use to buy land and obtain planning. I don't want to get too specific but basically if you can justify your purchase of the property due to your value to the local area, that will be advantageous. Then if you have a temporary structure on the land for a certain period of time, then subject to planning, you can begin to develop it for the required purpose..

I'm afraid such loop holes are not in existence. At least not that I'm aware of.

Being advantageous to the local area is not a loophole it is a qualification for Local Needs.
Working in the area is generally another.
Being from the area is another.

Temp structure to permanent is a no go.
"Habitable" existing structures are a way of getting past the Local Needs.

All above varies with each local authority in fact i'm sure in some counties (I think Tipp or Waterford kinda areas) you could just buy a decent site and get planning. But deffo not in dublin, Meath, louth, kildare, wiklow, galway or anywhere people generally want to live for work.

Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 8:02pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I did see an eco kit house which was energy free passive house. It was imported from Germany and put on concrete blocks. No foundations. A fella I knew in Wicklow.

I'm sure there is.
I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money

shivermetimber · 13-02-2020 8:05pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm afraid such loop holes are not in existence. At least not that I'm aware of.

Being advantageous to the local area is not a loophole it is a qualification for Local Needs.
Working in the area is generally another.
Being from the area is another.

Temp structure to permanent is a no go.
"Habitable" existing structures are a way of getting past the Local Needs.

All above varies with each local authority in fact i'm sure in some counties (I think Tipp or Waterford kinda areas) you could just buy a decent site and get planning. But deffo not in dublin, Meath, louth, kildare, wiklow, galway or anywhere people generally want to live for work.

Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.

Getting a bit sidetracked but I thought I read somewhere that the whole local needs thing was being done away with?

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 8:14pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm sure there is.
I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money

Dunno but this thing wasnt cheap and he had the doors open because it was always too warm! It was about 10 years ago.

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 8:18pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Likes of Meath are going to close this down tightly by end 2020.
All talk is that you'll need to have 25 acres or so to get local needs. Building will be limited back to defined villages and towns.

Building in countryside then travelling to work is nuts. I blame all them tv programs.

Only people who work in countryside should be allowed to live there.

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 8:20pm

shivermetimber wrote: »

Getting a bit sidetracked but I thought I read somewhere that the whole local needs thing was being done away with?

Talking to the engineers and planners in Meath the other day.
It wont be called local needs.
Basically their new development plan is going to cut any unnecessary builds down to defined villages and centres.
Necessary will be for those farming over a certain acreage only!! ...... so they get away from local needs altogether. Ideally they want no more one housing

Unless a politician or 2 gets in their way knowing this country.

shivermetimber · 13-02-2020 8:25pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I'm sure there is.
I'm also sure if it were cheaper than traditional build it would be advertised and theyd be everywhere.

BTW I'm all for prefabbed done right. Should be better finish than built on site in our weather. Just in construction the general rule is that anything prebuilt or forecast or prefabbed is dearer and you save by being efficient.
So an estate built in factory and dropped off trucks is dearer than building on site but by saving programme and site costs you make money

ecohouse.ie were advertising a full spec (hrv, underfloor heat, pv solar, triple glazed) 3 bed 110sqm passive standard modular sip build for 150k ex vat plus site works, a year or two ago. Modular so I'd imagine this could be scaled up and down to suit the modules. Build time was 8-12 weeks and a few weeks on site iirc. Do you reckon that would work out cheaper then a comparable traditional build in the end or the same?

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 8:33pm

shivermetimber wrote: »

ecohouse.ie were advertising a full spec (hrv, underfloor heat, pv solar, triple glazed) 3 bed 110sqm passive standard modular sip build for 150k ex vat plus site works, a year or two ago. Modular so I'd imagine this could be scaled up and down to suit modules. Build time was 8-12 weeks and a few weeks on site iirc. Would that work out cheaper then a comparable traditional build in the end?

Yes if paying a builder and doing one off by the book. Seems a good deal to be frank.
110sq m unfinshed cost at least the 150k plus vat plus the Hrv plus enabling works.

Not shifting goalposts but I've been in 2 one off houses in last week. Neither fella got a builder or paid much VAT. I think this is the lure for a lot of fellas in the countryside. Cut plenty corners while they're at it. Ever look at the scaffold at one of these mc mansions? Wouldn't put a cat on it.

shivermetimber · 13-02-2020 8:39pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Yes if paying a builder and doing one off by the book. Seems a good deal to be Frank.
110sq m unfinshed prob cost the 150k plus vat plus the Hrv

I thought so too, especially if you scale it down a bit. I even got a pdf of the modules from them for a gander some time back. Can't see the system advertised on their main site now however so maybe it never took off. Bizarre if it didn't and I don't know why the goverment don't consider these options if they're out there but hey, it's Ireland.

*Sorry OP and others to sidetrack the thread a bit.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 13-02-2020 9:22pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Talking to the engineers and planners in Meath the other day.
It wont be called local needs.
Basically their new development plan is going to cut any unnecessary builds down to defined villages and centres.
Necessary will be for those farming over a certain acreage only!! ...... so they get away from local needs altogether. Ideally they want no more one housing

Unless a politician or 2 gets in their way knowing this country.

What if you want to farm a quarter acre, rotating crops and livestock and maintaining the land organically? It's preventing individuals from pursuing their own self-sufficiency, enslaving them to their job and taxes and all the crap that makes otherwise reasonable people want to burn society to the ground. Is there anywhere in the world free of the tyranny and the oppression of domineering governments?

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 9:29pm

Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »

Is there anywhere in the world free of the tyranny and the oppression of domineering governments?

Short answer ............... no.

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 9:48pm

Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »

What if you want to farm a quarter acre, rotating crops and livestock and maintaining the land organically? It's preventing individuals from pursuing their own self-sufficiency, enslaving them to their job and taxes and all the crap that makes otherwise reasonable people want to burn society to the ground. Is there anywhere in the world free of the tyranny and the oppression of domineering governments?

Do it in mayo or somewhere less strict.
Buy an existing house.
Stop polluting the countryside with one off mc mansions.
Get a half acre within village extents.

You see the tyranny of oppression of domineering governments. I see too little too late to save once lovely green counties like Meath and Kildare. Villages are more sustainable. Next logical step be to incentivise farmers to let hedgerows away from roads grow and expand. Maybe even the odd pond. Bitta nature. Not houses and grass everywhere.

Yellow_Fern · 13-02-2020 10:55pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Do it in mayo or somewhere less strict.
Buy an existing house.
Stop polluting the countryside with one off mc mansions.
Get a half acre within village extents.

You see the tyranny of oppression of domineering governments. I see too little too late to save once lovely green counties like Meath and Kildare. Villages are more sustainable. Next logical step be to incentivise farmers to let hedgerows away from roads grow and expand. Maybe even the odd pond. Bitta nature. Not houses and grass everywhere.

Youre kinda mad. No said anything about building mansions or one offs.

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 11:09pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Do it in mayo or somewhere less strict.
Buy an existing house.
Stop polluting the countryside with one off mc mansions.
Get a half acre within village extents.

You see the tyranny of oppression of domineering governments. I see too little too late to save once lovely green counties like Meath and Kildare. Villages are more sustainable. Next logical step be to incentivise farmers to let hedgerows away from roads grow and expand. Maybe even the odd pond. Bitta nature. Not houses and grass everywhere.

I agree with that but I also think we should ban townies and city folk from the countryside because all they do is drop their filth out of the car windows and pollute the place.

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 13-02-2020 11:19pm

All the bored/board people in here going ballistic is very amusing. I don't intend to build a mansion and I'm not going to be dropping litter.

We're keeping an eye on Cloughjordan and other areas in Munster. Might even go as far up as Lough Derg, but that's very expensive.

Some relatives have offered to let us have some land locally in Cork as well, so that's an option too and I already do a lot of work on their land so that looks very appealing, but I don't want there to be issues with ownership down the line.

Plumbthedepths · 13-02-2020 11:20pm

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I agree with that but I also think we should ban townies and city folk from the countryside because all they do is drop their filth out of the car windows and pollute the place.

You want to ban freedom of travel? Judging by your comments have you confused this thread for After Hours?

Boredstiff666 · 13-02-2020 11:25pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You want to ban freedom of travel? Judging by your comments have you confused this thread for After Hours?

No just that some people should be confined to their homes. Why townies think the countryside is a rubbish dump I fail to understand

sydthebeat · 13-02-2020 11:36pm

Some awful lot of bar stoll clap trap being spouted in this thread.

Local Needs is not being phased out.

Not every piece of land is suitable for a home.

Not every rural home is a blight on services or a pollutant.

If you want to live in a house, it must comply with all building regulations... There are no loopholes.

Wildly Boaring · 13-02-2020 11:57pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Some awful lot of bar stoll clap trap being spouted in this thread.

Local Needs is not being phased out.

Not every piece of land is suitable for a home.

Not every rural home is a blight on services or a pollutant.

If you want to live in a house, it must comply with all building regulations... There are no loopholes.

Apologies yeah went off on one.

Would disagree on blight on services. Planned development a la England far more economical as a state to provide services.

There is no secret being made in Meath co co that by November they want all future houses in village or designated centre. The proposal is for one offs gone essentially.

There are a raft of planning submissions ongoing in advance.

I fully expect that the political will is not there to follow through but this is the current situation.

As per OP appreciate you're not planning a mansion, the problem is lately every one off house in Meath or kildare seems to be 3000 square foot. It's gone out of hand.

Gumbo · 14-02-2020 12:12am

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No just that some people should be confined to their homes. Why townies think the countryside is a rubbish dump I fail to understand

Mod note

You are borderline trolling now.
Warning has already been given, both on and off thread.

Next stop is a ban for posters spouting inflammatory statements with no basis, truth or facts at all.

Ray Palmer · 14-02-2020 4:33pm

Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »

What if you want to farm a quarter acre, rotating crops and livestock and maintaining the land organically? It's preventing individuals from pursuing their own self-sufficiency, enslaving them to their job and taxes and all the crap that makes otherwise reasonable people want to burn society to the ground. Is there anywhere in the world free of the tyranny and the oppression of domineering governments?

Everything does need to be regulated it isn't oppression or even close. Some of us are old enough to remember when there was a lot less regulation and also what happens when regulation is ignored. You might want to live like The Good Life but what if you have children their safety and well being should be of a particular standard. What way are you going to live when you get old and can't keep you self sustaining life? Does the state now have to take care if you.

Look at the fire that killed the traveller families because they ignored electrical standards. They want to live their lifestyle but obviously the fire regulations shouldn't have been ignored to let them do that. Priory hall was a result of ignoring regulations.

Just because you want to do something does6mean you should be allowed because you may very well never have considered all the consequences but other have.

pinkyeye · 14-02-2020 9:31pm

Jesus this thread has turned into some ****show that's not really giving the OP any constructive advice.

For your info OP, I built a log cabin out my back garden ten years ago, initially just for my teenage lads to play music but it always had a shower and toilet in case we wanted to use it for long term use.

Turned out my daughter lived in it for five years. It is the warmest, cosiest space I've ever been in. With one electric storage heater that only had to be on for an hour a day it was always warm and cosy.

I would live in it now myself except it's in Dublin and I don't want to be there anymore.

May change my mind as I get older though and it's still available for me.

No planning permission was granted but then again none of my neighbours ever complained.

Gumbo · 14-02-2020 11:40pm

pinkyeye wrote: »

Jesus this thread has turned into some ****show that's not really giving the OP any constructive advice.

For your info OP, I built a log cabin out my back garden ten years ago, initially just for my teenage lads to play music but it always had a shower and toilet in case we wanted to use it for long term use.

Turned out my daughter lived in it for five years. It is the warmest, cosiest space I've ever been in. With one electric storage heater that only had to be on for an hour a day it was always warm and cosy.

I would live in it now myself except it's in Dublin and I don't want to be there anymore.

May change my mind as I get older though and it's still available for me.

No planning permission was granted but then again none of my neighbours ever complained.

Mod Note

In this forum, we obey the law. What you have described is illegal and should not be advised to anybody. Please do not do that again.

So, on that note the thread is locked until further notice.

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