LGBT and Islam

Harvey Weinstein · 11-06-2019 1:54pm

Its a marriage that will end very badly for one side

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 1:56pm

biko wrote: »

My point LGBT people would support the guy in your image.

What makes you think that?

Plopsu · 11-06-2019 1:58pm

Danzy wrote: »

He is probably an oddball, his views would be considered extreme in most Western societies.

In Clonskeagh and other Mosques, he'd be the imam.

The head figure for their fatwa council says gays must be lashed, killed if in Islamic societies, long list if people who must be beaten or killed.

Is he not one of the Westboro Baptists? They're well known loonies.

Harvey Weinstein · 11-06-2019 1:58pm

Danzy · 11-06-2019 1:58pm

In the Netherlands and France, parties like Me Pens and Wilders have strong backing from gay people.

Probably a class division, the leafy suburbs providing left activists, those in working class areas providing others.

Sonics2k · 11-06-2019 2:01pm

biko wrote: »

My point LGBT people would support the guy in your image.

Those values are Islam values.
I oppose those values.
Do you oppose those values?

I absolutely stand for his right to free speech. I do not stand for free hate speech.

I don't care if they're Christian, Muslim, white, black, gay or straight.

But you already know this, you attempted a strawman and it was awful.

Cyclepath · 11-06-2019 2:02pm

Here's a handy infographic backed up by research that outlines broad muslim attitudes to various social issues.

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/infographic-the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-and-society/

Of course there are nuances. I know many moderate (i.e. non practicing) muslims with liberal views, but let's not fool ourselves that Islam and LGBTQ+ could ever align in any meaningful way.

Some more information on more localised attitudes from the UK:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

Faugheen · 11-06-2019 2:03pm

Surprised it took this long for the LGBT bashers to pretend they give a **** about them for a few minutes so they can bash the Muslims.

Mad_maxx · 11-06-2019 2:06pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

Well I certainly wouldn't say its that straightforward.

But even if it was, WHY (in your opinion) is Islam the sacred cow of the left?

The left believe in ringfencing minorities from criticism

Long standing practice

nozzferrahhtoo · 11-06-2019 2:13pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The left believe in ringfencing minorities from criticism

Long standing practice

I think in my experience people are often interested in ring fencing minorities for protection merely for BEING minorities. But criticism of their ideas as a minority are fair game.

My own motto is "Respect people, never ideas". But often people can not tell the difference. Either by attacking the minority instead of their ideas or.... in the other direction.... mistaking protection of minorities as a ring fence protection of their ideas.

Here in Ireland Muslims are a minority. I would want to ring fence them for protection for THAT reason.

However their ideas.... Islam itself..... is to me one of the more dangerous and damaging and awful religions making it's way into our culture and I think it is fair game for robust attack and criticism.

And I am perfectly capable of affording extra protection to one and extra ire to the other without any internal contradiction. But for some people separating people, and the ideas in the brains of those people, is beyond them. To the point some people conflate criticism of Islam with hate speech or racism. Which could not be more ridiculous.

DrPhilG · 11-06-2019 2:21pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Here in Ireland Muslims are a minority. I would want to ring fence them for protection for THAT reason.

However their ideas.... Islam itself..... is to me one of the more dangerous and damaging and awful religions making it's way into our culture and I think it is fair game for robust attack and criticism.

And I am perfectly capable of affording extra protection to one and extra ire to the other without any internal contradiction. But for some people separating people, and the ideas in the brains of those people, is beyond them. To the point some people conflate criticism of Islam with hate speech or racism. Which could not be more ridiculous.

Plenty of good replies so far, but this I think is the closest thing to a complete answer to my original question so far, thanks.

Although I do think that for many (including those in the picture in the OP), are acting similar to the other point made - that the more radical side of the left make Islam a form of sacred cow, without actually giving sufficient thought to what it entails at the extreme end.

James Brown · 11-06-2019 2:31pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've been scolded out of the Pride month thread for derailing it (apologies) so I'll ask here.

First off, this is a legitimate question, I'm not looking to bash/condemn anyone in the LGBTQ community, and I'm not looking to condemn Muslims or Islam.

I'm just genuinely curious about why there has been an increase, often at LGBTQ marches etc, of support shown by that community, towards the Muslim community.

I'm not saying that supporting one another and speaking out against bigotry and homoohobia together is a bad thing. I'm just surprised that the LGBTQ community support Islam, but condemn Christianity.

I can totally understand them condemning both, as both religions teach that homosexuality is wrong/sinful. I just don't get why one is supported and the other is not.

Again, this is a genuine question that I'm curious about so please don't drag it down to a mud slinging match.

Just going by the banner they seem to be against Islamophobia. You can frown upon Christians being fed to lions and still be a Jew.
But I can see how it plays to the any equality I/we don't like is PC madness gone too far crowd.

James Brown · 11-06-2019 2:33pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The left believe in ringfencing minorities from criticism

Long standing practice

They've no time for minority white supremacists though. Hypocritical of them?

wakka12 · 11-06-2019 2:54pm

I cant speak for others but Im gay and personally I am not comfortable with such a huge and rapid influx of people with such intolerant beliefs in the country, and the rest of europe. I think the consservative and hardine beliefs of the average muslim makes most conservative catholics look comparatively mild and easy going , most muslims I know are at best apathetic and indifferent towars lgbt community and their 'lifestyle choices', and of course complete intolerance is the most common attitude towards gay people within the islamic community. So I cant say I am as concerned about any injustices done towards the islamic community as many other irish gay people seem to be when that group generally display such utter disdain towards the lgbt community

wakka12 · 11-06-2019 2:58pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Probably because one community which suffers discrimination and hatred can empathise with other demographics who experience the same.

Yet the islamic community dont share the same feeling of empathy towards the lgbt community?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 11-06-2019 3:17pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Yet the islamic community dont share the same feeling of empathy towards the lgbt community?

I don't personally think of it as a tit for tat thing.

I'm a queer woman so I can relate to your feelings of unease but look, I've worked with, lived beside Muslims, I interact with them literally every day and I've never had a problem. I'm sure there are those in the community who are less tolerant and less integrated so I'm not interacting with them and I'm sure there are those with whom I am interacting who disapprove but get on with things, but my experience just doesn't match up with the hysteria that's being pushed.

If the values of the West- tolerance, secularism, inclusisivity are superior to those of the Islamic world- intolerance, theocracy, bigotry then we should surely be extending those good qualities to those who have been poisoned by the bad ones. Demonstrate tolerance, let homophobia try to hold up through actual contact with normal gay people.

biko · 11-06-2019 3:18pm

LGBT should stand with their brethren in Chechnya
Chechnya LGBT: Dozens 'detained in new gay purge'

Islam is the predominant religion (95%) in Chechnya, a country that claims to "have no gays".

Danzy · 11-06-2019 3:22pm

There are a host of bizarre positions taken by many on the modem left.

Often the only deciding factor is the pigmentation of the party.

So the guy above with the God hates fags sign is pointed out as an asshole, same as that preacher from Arizona.

Say that gays must die in an Islamic society and be beaten in others, unaccompanied women must be beaten, Jews must be killed, even if they are kids etc, you'll be recived by the Labour Mayor of London, those with the same views will be feted across countries by the Left, no one will take note because it is now familiar practice.

Mps will attend gender segregated meetings whoring for votes.

The block vote is a big driver in this, in many countries.

11-06-2019 3:27pm

Harley Embarrassed Wuss wrote: »

I'm a queer woman

I've always wondered and hope you may be able to enlighten me. What is the difference between gay and queer?

I've tried to find the answer online but get various different answers.

BattleCorp · 11-06-2019 3:29pm

I'm surprised to see the LGBT community supporting Islam. Because a significant portion of the followers of Islam would be happy fcuking them off the top of the tallest building they could find.

Jimmy McGill · 11-06-2019 3:30pm

Check out the Apostate Prophet on YouTube. He's an ex muslim from Turkish/German background (but now living in the States) with first hand experience of their brainwashing. His videos will change how you view islam.

James Brown · 11-06-2019 3:31pm

biko wrote: »

LGBT should stand with their brethren in Chechnya
Chechnya LGBT: Dozens 'detained in new gay purge'

Islam is the predominant religion (95%) in Chechnya, a country that claims to "have no gays".

I believe they do. You can disagree with people without being racist towards them. I'm no fan of the Roman Catholic Church but I'd give it's member that same respect I'd give anyone else. Can you imagine boycotting or wanting to remove members of the Catholic faith because you believe in gay rights and the right to choose?

Actually, I just read above and realise it's a hate Islam/Muslim thread, no worries. G'wan lads...

wakka12 · 11-06-2019 3:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've always wondered and hope you may be able to enlighten me. What is the difference between gay and queer?

I've tried to find the answer online but get various different answers.

queer is just an umbrella term for anything you identify as other than straight, maybe they dont fully identify as just gay or bisexual etc

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 11-06-2019 3:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've always wondered and hope you may be able to enlighten me. What is the difference between gay and queer?

I've tried to find the answer online but get various different answers.

Queer would be anyone falling under the LGBT+ umbrella, gay woman would be specifically lesbian. Gay women are queer (though obviously people prefer specific terms for themselves) but not all queer women are gay. I'm bisexual but queer is a convenient shorthand for these kinds of conversations.

11-06-2019 3:35pm

Harley Embarrassed Wuss wrote: »

Queer would be anyone falling under the LGBT+ umbrella, gay woman would be specifically lesbian. Gay women are queer (though obviously people prefer specific terms for themselves) but not all queer women are gay. I'm bisexual but queer is a convenient shorthand for these kinds of conversations.

Ah ok. That makes sense. Always confused me. Thanks!

suicide_circus · 11-06-2019 3:36pm

Harley Embarrassed Wuss wrote: »

Queer would be anyone falling under the LGBT+ umbrella, gay woman would be specifically lesbian. Gay women are queer (though obviously people prefer specific terms for themselves) but not all queer women are gay. I'm bisexual but queer is a convenient shorthand for these kinds of conversations.

i may be wrong but it seems to me that the term "bi-sexual" has lost some of its currency in recent years?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 11-06-2019 3:44pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i may be wrong but it seems to me that the term "bi-sexual" has lost some of its currency in recent years?

Still works in my house! How do you mean, like everyone's fcuking pansexual and stuff?

Took me long enough to be able to choke the words "I'm bisexual" out loud I can't be arsed changing it now.

freshpopcorn · 11-06-2019 3:48pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

There have been protests outside a school in the U.K. by muslims, some who have no family or children using the school, because the school is introducing LGBT into certain lessons.

I've seen those Protests in Birmingham on the news/etc.
Some of the protesters don't even have kids in the school or relatives.
It's hilarious watching some of the videos.
They said ''A Gay'' in a certain tone.
They protesters clearly don't want for kids to learn about different types of families.

suicide_circus · 11-06-2019 4:03pm

Harley Embarrassed Wuss wrote: »

Still works in my house! How do you mean, like everyone's fcuking pansexual and stuff?

Took me long enough to be able to choke the words "I'm bisexual" out loud I can't be arsed changing it now.

dunno just got the impression that bisexuality hasnt been taken super seriously by da community lately

biko · 11-06-2019 4:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Actually, I just read above and realise it's a hate Islam/Muslim thread, no worries. G'wan lads...

Many posts showing Islamists hate gays, including refusing to have kids learn about LGBT in school.
Matt thinks that means this is a hate Islam thread

Matt, you need to stop shooting the messenger

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 11-06-2019 4:07pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

dunno just got the impression that bisexuality hasnt been taken super seriously by da community lately

Never was tbh! Not by everyone obviously but there's always been a strain of bi-erasure and biphobia from within the community. We're greedy, confused, can't accept we're just gay, we're teases, have personality disorders, claim straight privilege and queer identity at the same time etc etc.

Hand on heart I've never had a Muslim say any of that :pac:

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 4:15pm

biko wrote: »

Many posts showing Islamists hate gays, including refusing to have kids learn about LGBT in school.
Matt thinks that means this is a hate Islam thread

Matt, you need to stop shooting the messenger

You should invest in a proper soap box. Set yourself up outside Central Bank or something. You're getting a little too predictable here.

Outlaw Pete · 11-06-2019 4:16pm

Amazing how leftists will come to the aid of Islam whenever it is condemned for the evil actions of the radicals within that religion but yet when the Catholic church is condemned for the evil actions of those within it's ranks, they are silent, or getting the boot in right along with those condemning and sneering at that particular religious denomination.

Not the only thing which the left is philosophical inconsistent on of course, it's a hallmark of theirs, but it's a biggie given how Islam in the main views and treats homosexuals and women. So why do they do it then?

Well, I agree with Michael Savage who sees leftism is a mental disorder, and I believe one day it will seen as such. All these people want is each other's approval and nothing gets more approval in leftist circles than supporting something which threatens the traditions and values of Western society.

It's why 'Straight, white, male' has become an insult. As that is who they see as their enemy. They've been raised that way. Our education system over the last 30 years has been stripped of male influence and we are now seeing the fruits of that as we have young white guys in their 20's going around insulting people for being white and male and prattling on about how there's a patriarchy in our society and rape culture etc etc. These people did not lick off the grass. They have been fed this crap.

Even a principle like 'Innocent until proven guilty' is something which they have challenged and continue to challenge. They are dangerous and particularly so as they have such a foothold in so many areas of our society. Areas where legislation is being drafted and what's on our curriculum is being decided upon. Propaganda is a huge tool in their arsenal also as can be evidenced by how much of the media it is which they have control over.

With regards to only a small amount of Muslims having radical beliefs, Ben Shapiro has a good video here which goes through the statistics worldwide on just how many Muslims it is that support Sharia law:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 4:19pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

i may be wrong but it seems to me that the term "bi-sexual" has lost some of its currency in recent years?

The term does seem to be losing it's meaning. I read a personal issue post from someone who was mad at her female friend because she wanted to go to pride to pick up another girl for a threesome with her fella. Now in my mind this would make the friend bisexual. I mean, she wants to sleep with both a guy and girl. But everyone seemed to think the friend was way out of order and taking advantage of pride. Just boggled my mind a little.

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 4:20pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Amazing how leftists will come to the aid of Islam

It's amazing how you keep peddling this nonsense no matter how many times you are told it is not correct.

biko · 11-06-2019 4:22pm

MrFresh wrote: »

You should invest in a proper soap box. Set yourself up outside Central Bank or something. You're getting a little too predictable here.

At least my feeling on the topic are crystal.

Gays are good.
People that hate gays are bad.

For several others it seems to be - gays are good, and people that hate gays are good too.

Danzy · 11-06-2019 4:23pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Amazing how leftists will come to the aid of Islam whenever it is condemned for the evil actions of the radicals within that religion but yet when the Catholic church is condemned for the evil actions of those within it's ranks, they are silent, or getting the boot in right along with those condemning and sneering at that particular religious denomination.

Not the only thing which the left is philosophical inconsistent on of course, it's a hallmark of theirs, but it's a biggie given how Islam in the main views and treats homosexuals and women. So why do they do it then?

Well, I agree with Michael Savage who sees leftism is a mental disorder, and I believe one day it will seen as such. All these people want is each other's approval and nothing gets more approval in leftist circles than supporting something which threatens the traditions and values of Western society.

It's why 'Straight, white, male' has become an insult. As that is who they see as their enemy. They've been raised that way. Our education system over the last 30 years has been stripped of male influence and we are now seeing the fruits of that as we have young white guys in their 20's going around insulting people for being white and male and prattling on about how there's a patriarchy in our society and rape culture etc etc. These people did not lick off the grass. They have been fed this crap.

Even a principle like 'Innocent until proven guilty' is something which they have challenged and continue to challenge. They are dangerous and particularly so as they have such a foothold in so many areas of our society. Areas where legislation is being drafted and what's on our curriculum is being decided upon. Propaganda is a huge tool in their arsenal also as can be evidenced by how much of the media it is which they have control over.

With regards to only a small amount of Muslims having radical beliefs, Ben Shapiro has a good video here which goes through the statistics worldwide on just how many Muslims it is that support Sharia law:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg

The modern Left and the Left of old ate different beasts altogether.

We owe much of what made Europe such a great place to live to the old Left, basic rights and dignity for people which lifted millions out of slums and exploration.

That was when the Left was not a middle class hobby horse for those desperate for a guiding belief system and eager to control others thoughts.

The Jesuits of yore are the activists of today.

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 4:26pm

biko wrote: »

At least my feeling on the topic are crystal.

Gays are good.
People that hate gays are bad.

For several others it seems to be - gays are good, and people that hate gays are good too.

Yet again you fail to see the distinction between objecting to discrimination against someone because of their religion and supporting the view of that particular religion. Except when it comes to Catholicism no doubt. You can disagree with the tenants of a religion without despising all persons who are a member of that religion.

Billy Mays · 11-06-2019 4:39pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, I agree with Michael Savage who sees leftism is a mental disorder, and I believe one day it will seen as such. All these people want is each other's approval and nothing gets more approval in leftist circles than supporting something which threatens the traditions and values of Western society.

MSNBC said yesterday that it had canceled its Saturday afternoon television program featuring Michael Savage, the conservative talk radio host, after he made antigay remarks that the network called ''extremely inappropriate.''

Mr. Savage's program, ''Savage Nation,'' has been on MSNBC since March.

His joining the network angered gay and lesbian groups because of his outspoken stance against homosexuality.

The remarks made on last Saturday's show came in response to a man who called in during a discussion about airline security and told Mr. Savage that he should ''go to the dentist because your teeth are real bad.''

Mr. Savage proceeded to ask the man if he was ''one of those sodomists.'' When the man responded that he was, Mr. Savage said: ''You should only get AIDS and die, you pig. How's that?''

That Michael Savage?

biko · 11-06-2019 4:49pm

Why don't the LGBT signs says "LGBT against religious persecution" which would encompass all religions.
Why do they focus on Islam only?

Objectively Christians are more persecuted worldwide.

mcmoustache · 11-06-2019 4:49pm

When you get all of your information from the sort of right-wing social media bubble that considers Ben Shapiro to be an intellectual, characters like Savage take on a certain messianic quality.

magma69 · 11-06-2019 4:53pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's because both communities have a recent history of suffering intolerance, bigotry and hyperbolic media persecution. Islam, obviously, more recently than the LGBT community.

In any case, the idea that Muslims automatically agree with Sharia law and want to implement it in western society is absolute bull**** to anyone who spends even a little time informing themselves by actually spending time with Muslims and talking to them, rather than reading tabloids and listening to right-wing podcasts; as most people, while being devout (to either religion) aren't as homophobic as a lot of people would like us to think.

Agree with your first paragraph and I'm not down with the dehumanisation of Muslims like most of the userbase here seem to be.

Your second point however simply isn't true. The vast majority of Muslims are homophobic. This research shows roughly an average of 3% that say it is morally acceptable.

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/

Half of all British Muslims think it should be illegal. Half. In a totally Westernised country, half still think gays should be classified criminals so don't be giving the "ah stop being Islamophobic, they're grand" ****e.

There's a massive issue here and anyone downplaying or ignoring the issue is no ally of the movement for equal rights for LGBT.

Danzy · 11-06-2019 4:57pm

magma69 wrote: »

Agree with your first paragraph and I'm not down with the dehumanisation of Muslims like most of the userbase here seem to be.

Your second point however simply isn't true. The vast majority of Muslims are homophobic. This research shows roughly an average of 3% that say it isn't morally acceptable.

https://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/

Half of all British Muslims think it should be illegal. Half. In a totally Westernised country, half still think gays should be classified criminals so don't be giving the "ah stop being Islamophobic, they're grand" ****e.

There's a massive issue here and anyone downplaying or ignoring the issue is no ally of the movement for equal rights for LGBT.

Culture and values do not matter any more. Pigmentation is the only game in town for much of the modern Left.

James Brown · 11-06-2019 5:12pm

Danzy wrote: »

Culture and values do not matter any more. Pigmentation is the only game in town for much of the modern Left.

So you embrace Islam as a culture equal to your own? Or are you some kind of commie?

jam_mac_jam · 11-06-2019 5:19pm

I think that Islam is a very dangerous idea for those from the LGBT community or feminists to align themselves with.

Yes, we should all be against discrimination however how much power do we want to give religious ideas, any religious ideas. We should be promoting the secular society and people should be keeping religion to themselves. I am very uncomfortable with the protests at the moment in the UK against teaching kids to be tolerant.

I think we all need to be very careful who we align with.

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 5:29pm

biko wrote: »

Why don't the LGBT signs says "LGBT against religious persecution" which would encompass all religions.
Why do they focus on Islam only?

Objectively Christians are more persecuted worldwide.

Why don't you address any actual points when you get answers? Are you just reading from a script for your own YouTube video or something? The reason LGBT in UK and Ireland would be focused on "Islamophobia" is because that is followers of that religion that are being most discriminated against in the UK and Ireland. And quite often, people use the LGBT community to justify their discrimination against Muslims, despite not being advocates for LGBT in any other area.

MrFresh · 11-06-2019 5:30pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I think that Islam is a very dangerous idea for those from the LGBT community or feminists to align themselves with.

Yes, we should all be against discrimination however how much power do we want to give religious ideas, any religious ideas. We should be promoting the secular society and people should be keeping religion to themselves. I am very uncomfortable with the protests at the moment in the UK against teaching kids to be tolerant.

I think we all need to be very careful who we align with.

They are not mutually exclusive positions.

mcmoustache · 11-06-2019 5:33pm

MrFresh wrote: »

And quite often, people use the LGBT community to justify their discrimination against Muslims, despite not being advocates for LGBT in any other area.

It happened enough times here. The usual suspects that were against gay marriage and female autonomy suddenly became rather concerned for gays and women when Tommy Robinson needed defending.

11-06-2019 5:40pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

It happened enough times here. The usual suspects that were against gay marriage and female autonomy suddenly became rather concerned for gays and women when Tommy Robinson needed defending.

Got it in one,

Then spend time giving out about the pride celebrations, the media reporting when two gay women are attacked, while trying to shoehorn in it was probably Muslims.

Das Reich · 11-06-2019 5:45pm

Because both groups are very tolerant, but only if you agree 100% with them.

LGBT and Islam

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