22 storey 'skyscraper' approved for Tara Street

kub · 10-04-2019 6:16pm

Marcusm wrote: »

The highest aerial platform in London, a city with many high buildings, is 32m, ie a third the height of this building in Dublin. It is simply fallacious to believe that you can fight fires externally in such buildings. This is why other measures are needed.

We do not even have to look at London as an example, the County Hall in Cork at over 16 floors had been the countries tallest building since the 1960's, Cork City Fire service never had or have an appliance with a reach capability for that building or for the now existing Elysian.

is_that_so · 10-04-2019 6:17pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

please go onto skyscrapercity, endless threads on different bland, farcical joke proposals for the docklands, he is the only one trying to push the bar higher!

Tara Street is not in the docklands. I don't know what kind of bar you're looking at unless it's monetary. He is no visionary and never has been, just back doing what he used to do, slinging up buildings.

is_that_so · 10-04-2019 6:22pm

happyfriday74 wrote: »

He didn't go bankrupt in the uk. He did a lot of companies put in receivership/liquidated though but so did a lot of other people.

Yep and we got that appalling mess in 2009 thanks to Ronan and his ilk. I can't see much to embrace about the man except that he seems to have learnt that banks are not financial photocopiers.

Sleeper12 · 10-04-2019 6:27pm

Everyone thinks high rise will solve Dublins housing problems. I'm not against high rise but its not economical to build high rise apartments. High rise means offices, hotels and penthouses.

This won't be high rise apartments. This is office space, a bar & a hotel.

is_that_so · 10-04-2019 6:30pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks high rise will solve Dublins housing problems. I'm not against high rise but its not economical to build high rise apartments. High rise means offices, hotels and penthouses.

This won't be high rise apartments. This is office space, a bar & a hotel.

There will continue to be a focus on where money can be made. I don't expect large scale construction on more mid-range or cheaper apartments for a good while longer.

Sleeper12 · 10-04-2019 6:37pm

is_that_so wrote:

There will continue to be a focus on where money can be made. I dont expect large scale construction on more mid-range or cheaper apartments for a good while longer.

People think that high rise is cheaper because you get so many units in a small spread. This isn't the case. Once you go over 12 floors or so it gets too expensive for apartments. You will get high end penthouses alright but outside of that it will always be hotels and offices.

tototoe · 10-04-2019 6:41pm

It's great Dublin is going up, but that building is not inspiring. It's pretty ugly to be fair. Tall is great, but it needs to look good too. This really doesn't.

endacl · 10-04-2019 9:12pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Building up is the only way for Dublin, urban sprawl can't continue forever

Promoting Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Athlone, Galway, and any number of other places for business and industry to set up or relocate is the only way for Dublin.

Dublin is full. Plenty of room in the rest of the country.

Topgear on Dave · 10-04-2019 9:18pm

endacl wrote: »

Promoting Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Athlone, Galway, and any number of other places for business and industry to set up or relocate is the only way for Dublin.

Dublin is full. Plenty of room in the rest of the country.

Indeed the national spatial strategy warned all this would happen nearly 20 years ago and sought to counterbalance Dublin by concentrating on a small number of other sites. Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford.... that sort of thing.

It was condemned by all and politically unpalatable, it was watered down completely so Dublin will continue to expand for the forseeable future.

Amirani · 10-04-2019 10:20pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Indeed the national spatial strategy warned all this would happen nearly 20 years ago and sought to counterbalance Dublin by concentrating on a small number of other sites. Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford.... that sort of thing.

It was condemned by all and politically unpalatable, it was watered down completely so Dublin will continue to expand for the forseeable future.

The issue with the National Spatial Strategy is that they picked too many places. Then they did decentralisation, and again there were too many spots, and many didn't even align with the National Spatial Strategy.

"While the National Development Plan 2000-2006 identified Dublin, Cork, Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Waterford as existing gateways, the NSS designated four new national level gateways - the towns of Dundalk and Sligo and the linked gateways of Letterkenny/(Derry) and the Midland towns of Athlone/Tullamore/Mullingar

In addition, the NSS identified nine, strategically located, medium-sized "hubs" which will support, and be supported by, the gateways and will link out to wider rural areas. The hubs identified are Cavan, Ennis, Kilkenny, Mallow, Monaghan, Tuam and Wexford, along with the linked hubs of Ballina/Castlebar and Tralee/Killarney"

If you want to build a decent counterbalance to Dublin then focus on Cork & Limerick. Stop trying to give a little bit to everywhere around the country, it's moronic.

Topgear on Dave · 10-04-2019 10:36pm

You'll never make it big in our small town local politics Amirani!

:pac:

markpb · 11-04-2019 10:06am

endacl wrote: »

Promoting Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Athlone, Galway, and any number of other places for business and industry to set up or relocate

This is a good thing and we should definitely do more of it. For what it's worth, most other cities are just as poor at planning and land use as Dublin is. There's plenty of objection to reallocating road space from cars to public transport in those cities too and public transport is essential to growing a city.

Dublin is full. Plenty of room in the rest of the country.

This is daft.

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 10:10am

nthclare wrote: »

Another ugly building on Ireland's skyline, glass and metal and some concrete the usual pattern of leaving cert standard design here in Ireland.

We must have the most uncreative architects on the planet.

That thing looks ghastly....

what materials would you deem appropriate?

lawred2 · 11-04-2019 10:13am

endacl wrote: »

Promoting Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Athlone, Galway, and any number of other places for business and industry to set up or relocate is the only way for Dublin.

Dublin is full. Plenty of room in the rest of the country.

It is not full.

It's is however a low density sprawl. However the signs are that this is changing.

The Enbalmer · 11-04-2019 10:17am

nthclare wrote: »

Another ugly building on Ireland's skyline, glass and metal and some concrete the usual pattern of leaving cert standard design here in Ireland.

We must have the most uncreative architects on the planet.

That thing looks ghastly....

Do you know of any better construction materials for a tall building?

Wattle and daub or drystone? Maybe a turf building like they have in Clare?

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 10:19am

reg114 wrote: »

The historic resistance to high rise buildings in Dublin at the 'expense of the Dublin skyline' needs to thrown out at this stage as far as Im concerned. Every other developed capital city has long since embraced building upwards in an attempt to combat lack of innercity space. However, My only worry would be from a fire safety standpoint.

In March of 2018 there was a fire in the Metro Hotel in Ballymun, a building which is a mere 16 storeys tall. At the time Dublin fire brigade said their 2 turntable ladders (stored in Tara Street Fire station) were unable to reach the uppermost part of the building. So this highlights the total lack of fire safety capability by Dublin fire brigade as things currently stand. To build an even taller building in the absence of suitable firefighting equipment would be negligent in the extreme. Quite frankly no planning permission should be granted for any buildings taller than the scope of the tallest turn table ladder owned by Dublin fire Brigade.

Is there a turntable ladder that can reach the top of the Burj Khalifa?

lawred2 · 11-04-2019 10:25am

cgcsb wrote: »

Is there a turntable ladder that can reach the top of the Burj Khalifa?

lol

imagine waiting for the daredevil firefighter to climb up there

and not get blown clean off

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 10:43am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Everyone thinks high rise will solve Dublins housing problems. I'm not against high rise but its not economical to build high rise apartments. High rise means offices, hotels and penthouses.

This won't be high rise apartments. This is office space, a bar & a hotel.

Depends on the definition of high rise. 10-15 storey apartment blocks are indeed economical, they are common in cities with much lower property values than Dublin. But in Ireland people call 10-15 floor buildings sky scrappers.

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 10:45am

endacl wrote: »

Promoting Cork, Limerick, Waterford, Athlone, Galway, and any number of other places for business and industry to set up or relocate is the only way for Dublin.

Tried that and are still trying that. Ireland is a small city state though.

endacl wrote: »

Dublin is full. Plenty of room in the rest of the country.

If you think Dublin is 'full' I'd suggest you avoid a trip to Tokyo, or even Barcelona for that matter.

Sleeper12 · 11-04-2019 10:51am

cgcsb wrote:

Depends on the definition of high rise. 10-15 storey apartment blocks are indeed economical, they are common in cities with much lower property values than Dublin. But in Ireland people call 10-15 floor buildings sky scrappers.

That's not high rise. Not even for Dublin but you are correct. I think 15 or 16 stores is the limit for apparents to make money. Anything over that it's office & hotels

SuperS54 · 11-04-2019 12:04pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's not high rise. Not even for Dublin but you are correct. I think 15 or 16 stores is the limit for apparents to make money. Anything over that it's office & hotels

I live in a 36 floor building that is exclusively apartments, in a complex with 8 or so of these for a total of 960 apartments. Not in Ireland obviously but it's not unusual in many countries and they are certainly profitable for developers.

Idbatterim · 11-04-2019 12:07pm

“That's not high rise. Not even for Dublin but you are correct. I think 15 or 16 stores is the limit for apparents to make money. Anything over that it's office & hotels” lol! Explain capital dock. Explain multiple uk cities building residential blocks double the 15/16 floor height with land and rent costs way below Dublin .. .

AlmightyCushion · 11-04-2019 12:35pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's not high rise. Not even for Dublin but you are correct. I think 15 or 16 stores is the limit for apparents to make money. Anything over that it's office & hotels

Even if this was true (I'm not saying it isn't as I don't know but others are), going higher density for hotels and office space frees up more land that can be used for residential. You can split the same office space across 2 15 story towers or a single 30 story tower. If you do the latter then the other land can be used for residential.

Going higher density for office space and hotels in a city will reduce the amount of land used for all that office space and hotels which frees it up for other uses including residential.

Sleeper12 · 11-04-2019 1:20pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Even if this was true (I'm not saying it isn't as I don't know but others are), going higher density for hotels and office space frees up more land that can be used for residential. You can split the same office space across 2 15 story towers or a single 30 story tower. If you do the latter then the other land can be used for residential.

Going higher density for office space and hotels in a city will reduce the amount of land used for all that office space and hotels which frees it up for other uses including residential.

Pat Kenny had on an architect or developer about high rise in Ireland a few months ago. He was very much in favor of going higher in Dublin but he stressed that they won't be apartments as they don't fetch anywhere as high a rate per square footage as apartments & hotels. He said going higher is more expensive & not cheaper as many people believe. He did say that the top floor of any of these developments could be penthouse apartments as the penthouse would fetch a high value

I agree, any development is good. I don't have a problem with high rise in the right area

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 1:20pm

On a related note, Poolbeg West SDZ was granted today:

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/0411/1042035-poolbeg-housing/

slightly dissappointing on the height side of things with only one 16 storey block included. I think we can all agree 15 floors of residential is certainly doable in Dublin, Capital dock being 22, but with only luxury units may be an outlier for a while.

Idbatterim · 11-04-2019 1:59pm

cgcsb, in the original plan it was one sixteen floor, take a look at the below. a few taller blocks. Of course the place is littered with 4/5 floor blocks, what a disgrace!

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140132271&postcount=264

Former Observer · 11-04-2019 2:03pm

Building up is ok, in the right areas, but the designs should be appropriately avant-garde, modenist, unassuming etc. as needed, and not just hideous, innane monuments to greed and mediocrity. We are in a unique position of not having yet built a ton of skyscrapers in our cities so let's be innovative and thoughtful about what we're doing. The alternative is a bunch of philistine cowboys destroying our skylines.

Not a skyscraper, but that new O'Callaghan's Properties office block on the docks in cork looks like some cheapo pride-of-the-city vanity project you'd expect to have seen in kosovo in the early 90s.

cgcsb · 11-04-2019 2:10pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

cgcsb, in the original plan it was one sixteen floor, take a look at the below. a few taller blocks. Of course the place is littered with 4/5 floor blocks, what a disgrace!

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140132271&postcount=264

Ah, I see, 4*18 floors, 2*16 floors and 1*20 floors. Not Ideal, but look I'll take it, this is Ireland and it's progress, now just build already.

We need 10 more of these schemes of the same ore greater density in the inner suburbs, Dublin Industrial Estate and JFK Industrial estate I'm looking at you, and a number of smaller sites near good transport. And that'll just about match the anticipated population growth without even applying downward pressure on prices.

Edit:

If we get 10,000 living in the 0.34km2 site, that's equivalent to almost 30,000 per km2. Making it the most densely populated part of the state. By comparison the Eixample of Barcelona is about 36,000 per km2, and that was built in the pre globalisation days, finished in about the year 1910.

Idbatterim · 11-04-2019 2:17pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ah, I see, 4*18 floors, 2*16 floors and 1*20 floors. Not Ideal, but look I'll take it, this is Ireland and it's progress, now just build already.

We need 10 more of these schemes of the same ore greater density in the inner suburbs, Dublin Industrial Estate and JFK Industrial estate I'm looking at you, and a number of smaller sites near good transport. And that'll just about match the anticipated population growth without even applying downward pressure on prices.

no i hope the site rots before that joke proposal gets built. Ronan challenged them and got his "tower" Their are new height guidelines now, I hope a new scheme gets applied for. Double the heights and its still a mid rise scheme for the most part... There are a few last totally prime sites, when they are gone, they are gone and they are close to being absolutely WASTED!

kravmaga · 03-11-2020 3:35pm

Bump, could not find any update on Johnny Ronans Tara Street Tower project.

If in the wrong category Mods, please edit.

Looks like D.C.C. have rejected a fresh application by Ronan to change status from Hotel to Office/ mixed use.

Ronan is right, hotel hospitality is dead until we get a vaccine for covid-19. Why D.C.C rejected the new application is beyond me?

See Irish Times, paywall enabled unfortunately.

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/34-storey-complex-in-cork-set-to-become-irelands-tallest-building-39624302.html

Its a shame I was looking forward to see this project go ahead.

Just to have Capital Dock and the Exo on Dublin's low level skyline is disappointing considering its a European capital city..

Cork Co Co. on the other hand have given permission to a 34 story building in the heart of the Port of Cork. Looked at the plans, looks very impressive. Some Irish/ American property consortium behind it.

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/34-storey-complex-in-cork-set-to-become-irelands-tallest-building-39624302.html

22 storey 'skyscraper' approved for Tara Street

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