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Learning Spanish

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I know what you meant, I'm talking about the principle of having two languages side by side when you're trying to learn one of them.

    The bolded bit is patently untrue. If two Catalans are having a conversation and a madrileño is listening in on it, they might understand 10-15% of it, at best.
    Emmm nope. 70% at least.

    My spanish teacher was a native catalan speaker her husband was argentinian he could understand a huge amount of it. Not having learnt.

    I can get the jist of it. I am no native level speaker of spanish.
    A spanish speaker never living in valencia would understand most of it. If spoken slowly with no slang.




    A catalan, a french canadian and a mexican all speaking in their own languages. Catalan is like french and spanish mixed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Woke Hogan wrote: »
    I hope you don't mind me asking but are you Spanish?

    Very much not. I'm from Belfast.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Emmm nope. 70% at least.

    My spanish teacher was a native catalan speaker her husband was argentinian he could understand a huge amount of it. Not having learnt.

    I can get the jist of it. I am no native level speaker of spanish.
    A spanish speaker never living in valencia would understand most of it. If spoken slowly with no slang.

    It's a redundant way to describe it, perhaps even offensive to some, but I'd say Catalan is about a third Spanish, a third French and a third it's own language.

    There is not a hope a madrileño (or any other non Catalan speaking Spaniard), with no experience or knowledge of Catalan, could follow a conversation between two native Catalans with 70% understanding. Not. A. Hope. Gallego? Yes. Catalan? Not a chance. I'll give you an example. My Basque sister-in-law (fluent Spanish, Basque and English speaker), from Donostia, did her MBA at ESADE in Barcelona. She says she could barely understand a word of it.

    Reading it, they could maybe get 40-50%, but a spoken conversation would be way, way lower.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    It's a redundant way to describe it, perhaps even offensive to some, but I'd say Catalan is about a third Spanish, a third French and a third it's own language.

    There is not a hope a madrileño (or any other non Catalan speaking Spaniard), with no experience or knowledge of Catalan, could follow a conversation between two native Catalans with 70% understanding. Not. A. Hope. Gallego? Yes. Catalan? Not a chance. I'll give you an example. My Basque sister-in-law (fluent Spanish, Basque and English speaker), from Donostia, did her MBA at ESADE in Barcelona. She says she could barely understand a word of it.

    Reading it, they could maybe get 40-50%, but a spoken conversation would be way, way lower.


    I don't think it would be offensive to any catalan speakers. They are pretty friendly :) Watch the videos ..They all speak spanish too. Its not the same political situation as Euskara. They are totally diff. Also some Euskal consider themselves totally spanish 100%.

    It's absolutely impossible what you have said about your sister in law. Infact you should be able to understand 60% of it just from having spanish alone.

    Spanish and catalan have a 75% lexical similarity.

    I mean i can understand a good deal of it. And my spanish is not great.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Sorry mate, you're flat out wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Sorry mate, you're flat out wrong.






    Catalan
    • 1 – un.
    • 2 – dos.
    • 3 – tres.
    • 4 – quatre.
    • 5 – cinc.
    • 6 – sis.
    • 7 – set.
    • 8 – vuit.
    Catalan

    Hola come estas?
    Spanish
    Hola como estas?




    Catalan
    Pus tenir une galeta?


    Spanish



    Puedo Tener una galleta?



    Both use the verb Tene and the word galleta.



    Pus /Puedo.


    Catalan


    Sentir to feel


    Em sento I feel



    Et sents millor./ You feel better




    Spanish



    Sentir to feel



    Yo siento I feel


    te sientes mejor/You feel better.



    Trousers
    Catalon
    Pantalons
    Spanish
    Pantalones

    To dress

    Spanish.

    Para Vestir

    Catalan

    Per Vester.

    Same verb Vester/Vestir

    Catalan To be

    Ser

    Spanish to be

    Ser erstar.



    To fall asleep

    Catalan
    admormir
    He Dormit / I slept.


    Spanish

    Dormir

    Yo Dormi / I slept


    Spanish.

    Yo camine/ I walked.

    Catalan

    Vaig camine/ I walked.

    Spanish To see

    Para Ver

    Catalan

    Veure To see

    Catalan

    Escultar

    NOW GOOGLE SAYS ESCUCHAR for the spanish but i have DEFINITELY heard escultar in spanish.

    But i remember from italian operas anyways signor ascolta ..oh signor ascolta!

    Spanish admire

    Admiro

    Catalan

    Admiro.

    Butter.

    catalan

    Mantega

    Spanish

    Mantequilla.

    BUT if you know Argentinian spanish ...the word for butter is Manteca ..which is even MORE similar to the catalan word :)


    It goes on an on.

    My spanish aint even good bro.

    P.S sorry for my terrible awful spanish. Honestly when i can't spell something ..i just make it up! When i don't know something ..i literally make a word up!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭FVP3


    Catalan is clearly somewhere between Spanish and French.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Yes, it does go on and on.

    Spanish - ensalada
    Catalan - amanida

    Spanish - zanahoria
    Catalan - pastanaga

    Spanish - fresa, frambuesa, naranja
    Catalan - maduixa, gerd, taronja

    Spanish - desayunar
    Catalan - esmorzar

    Spanish - te quiero
    Catalan - t'estimo

    Spanish - no tenemos miedo
    Catalan - no tenim por

    Spanish - hasta maña
    Catalan - fins demà

    See, I can selectively choose arguements to suit y narrative as well. It's always helpful.

    Having a conversation is not the same as words in a page - it introduces pronunciation, nuance etc. A native Spanish speaker with no knowledge of catalan could not understand a conversation between two Catalans (which was my original assertion). Trust me, I live and work in Barcelona with Spaniards, Catalans and many other nationalities. This comes up a lot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    FVP3 wrote: »
    Catalan is clearly somewhere between Spanish and French.
    Bits of Italian too...and spanish people always tell me that Argentinian spanish sounds like Italian to them. Just the accent ...not that its a diff language.


    :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Yes, it does go on and on.

    Spanish - ensalada
    Catalan - amanida

    Spanish - zanahoria
    Catalan - pastanaga

    Spanish - fresa, frambuesa, naranja
    Catalan - maduixa, gerd, taronja

    Spanish - desayunar
    Catalan - esmorzar

    Spanish - te quiero
    Catalan - t'estimo

    Spanish - no tenemos miedo
    Catalan - no tenim por

    Spanish - hasta maña
    Catalan - fins demà

    See, I can selectively choose arguements to suit y narrative as well. It's always helpful.

    Having a conversation is not the same as words in a page - it introduces pronunciation, nuance etc. A native Spanish speaker with no knowledge of catalan could not understand a conversation between two Catalans (which was my original assertion. Trust me, I live and work in Barcelona wit Spaniards, Catalans and many other nationalities. This comes up a lot.


    Then why can i?

    I would so get naranja from taranja!

    Estimo is obv. You would totally understand that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Then why can i?

    Because you're talking ****e and you can't, or alternatively, you've had exposure to the language over time and have been able to pick up a basis in it.

    You say your Spanish isn't particularly good, and you don't live in Catalunya. My Spanish is pretty damn good and I live in Barcelona, and have done for the last five years. I have Spanish family who have lived in Barcelona. Which of is is more qualified to comment on this?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Because you're talking ****e and you can't, or alternatively, you've had exposure to the language over time and have been able to pick up a basis in it.

    You say your Spanish isn't particularly good, and you don't live in Catalunya. My Spanish is pretty damn good and I live in Barcelona, and have done for the last five years. I have Spanish family who have lived in Barcelona. Which of is is more qualified to comment on this?!


    I honestly don't know if i believe you. Because what you are saying is so ....wrong to me. And yeah my spanish sucks. If you were telling the truth you WOULD be more qualified to say. But then i don't know why you are saying what you are saying.

    It makes zero sense.

    It wouldn't be the easiest conversation but they would get it.

    Maybe we have a diff qualifier of what mutual comprehension is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Actually scrap that i just asked my mom did we ever visit catalonia (catalan) and Andalusia. (castillian)

    We did. For months.

    Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

    Sorry Eager Beaver.

    I've been to a lot of diff places in spain. I even went to school there for a bit.

    I've also lived for a while in Bilbao and madrid. Ages ago now though...years.

    I still feel i am right though.

    Maybe ask a spanish person how much catalan they can understand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Actually scrap that i just asked my mom did we ever visit catalonia (catalan) and Andalusia. (castillian)

    We did. For months.

    Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

    Sorry Eager Beaver.

    I've been to a lot of diff places in spain. I even went to school there for a bit.

    I've also lived for a while in Bilbao and madrid. Ages ago now though...years.

    I still feel i am right though.

    Maybe ask a spanish person how much catalan they can understand.

    I've literally explained to you that I have Spanish family and friends, I work with Spaniards etc who can't understand a native catalan conversation.

    And why is your mom (remember your parents used you to order in restaurants, so she's not Spanish) an authority on this? You'll find very few Spaniards (except maybe Vox voters) who would try to argue that Spanish and Catalan are one language. That'd be like saying Spanish and Italian are the same language.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I've literally explained to you that I have Spanish family and friends, I work with Spaniards etc who can't understand a native catalan conversation.

    And why is your mom (remember your parents used you to order in restaurants, so she's not Spanish) an authority on this? You'll find very few Spaniards (except maybe Vox voters) who would try to argue that Spanish and Catalan are one language. That'd be like saying Spanish and Italian are the same language.


    I know they are two different languages. Why are you making this political ?

    I am saying they are very very similar.



    Like Dutch and German etc. Like Russian and a lot of other slavic Languages etc. Slovenian is similar to croatian etc. Scots Gaelic is really the same language as Irish.

    Yes I know my own mother is not Spanish. But she knew where we had lived which would account for my hearing catalan regularly as a kid.

    Anyway OP ..just do what you can each day. Then go for a holiday.

    For each hr of classes i would recommend 2 hrs of self study. And some fun things. But to go there is the most important thing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    I know they are two different languages. Why are you making this political ?

    I am saying they are very very similar.



    Like Dutch and German etc. Like Russian and a lot of other slavic Languages etc.

    Yes I know my own mother is not Spanish. But she knew where we had lived which would account for my hearing catalan regularly as a kid.

    Anyway OP ..just do what you can each day. Then go for a holiday.
    Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

    Part of your argument about how easily understood a Catalan conversation would be to a Spaniard was that your (non Spanish) mother told you it was all one language...

    Political? Where have I made it political?!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Part of your argument about how easily understood a Catalan conversation would be to a Spaniard was that your (non Spanish) mother told you it was all one language...


    Nope. My mother mentioned where we lived catalan would be regularly spoken.
    Scratches head.....shrug its all one language anyways :P

    You need to lighten up.

    You know what you are doing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    But whether Catalan is regularly spoken in Catalunya isn't the subject of the discussion? (or for that matter, up for debate to any non-mental person).

    You're moving goalposts and losing the run of yourself completely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,131 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    FVP3 wrote: »
    Catalan is clearly somewhere between Spanish and French.

    Lots of Italian influence too.
    If you have an understanding of Spanish, French and Italian you can understand a fair bit of Catalan although the same could be said for Romanian.
    It’s undoubtedly it’s own langauage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Lots of Italian influence too.
    If you have an understanding of Spanish, French and Italian you can understand a fair bit of Catalan although the same could be said for Romanian.
    It’s undoubtedly it’s own langauage.

    True. I can't understand a word of Romanian though! I can understand a bit of catalan!

    I posted a really interesting video earlier with a french canadian a mexican and a catalan having a conversation in their own languages to see how much they could understand it was really interesting.

    Some catalans also took a mexican around to see how much catalan he could get.







    Its like dutch /german.

    Or Irish and Scots Gaelic. :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭boardise


    KevRossi wrote: »
    I have fluent German and very good French, so I'll give you my tip on conversation practice; Practice with yourself.

    Start speaking to yourself in Spanish, so instead of thinking; "I'm hungry, I'll see if there's anything to eat in the fridge", just think the same to yourself in Spanish. When it does come to speaking the language you won't have to go looking for words and phrases, you'll already have a fair few of them off.

    The poster above who said to put Post-it notes on everything is right as well.

    Look for Spanish books for kids, especially those with a lot of conversation in them, it'll be easier to read and understand than books for adults.
    Try to find Spanish TV programmes online for kids, again the language they use will be a lot simpler.

    Offer free language classes to Spanish people here in return for the same. Meet up for 2 hours; one hour speaking English, one hour speaking Spanish. You can do this via Zoom as well with people in Spain.

    Finally, try to get a couple of weeks in Spain, do not go to a main touristed area as a good deal of people will speak English, rent a house in a smaller town and start chatting to people.

    Also, if in Dublin there are conversational groups in the Central Library in the ILAC centre every week, not sure when they will kick off again after COVID.

    Brilliant advice here -perceptive and pertinent. The point about using material aimed at kids is spot on -I've done this myself to good effect.
    Also going to non-tourist areas is crucial. An immersive experience may be testing at first but will pay dividends. As the motto has it -Per ardua ad astra !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hey OP have you tried Instituto Cervantes?

    I think they have a choir.

    https://dublin.cervantes.es/en/courses_spanish/general_courses_spanish/general_courses_n.htm

    They have cultural events from Latin America as well as spain.

    There are diff levels you can progress to. They go all the way up to C2 spanish DELE i think...

    Check it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭boardise


    OP - if you're anyway musical -another little ploy that would help would be to learn a few verses of some folk or pop songs in the target language or a translation of some well known ditties in English.

    Another hint i would offer is the following - Right from the start learn the new language in 'chunks' i.e. in phrases of maybe 3 ,4 or 5 words. A surprising amount of all language is in just such a form . Words in isolation are ok but words in colloquial combinations are a catapult to fluency.
    The great thing about phrases is that all the grammatical packaging has been done -gender, agreement, noun cases etc.-so the use of these phrases engenders the correct grammar in your mind and can be absorbed subconsciously .

    The ultimate question you need to ask is -what is my motivation ? I believe that motivation is the strongest driver to language competence. Let's say a young student -on Erasmus or some such- meets someone with whom they would like to form a relationship -that's a 22 carat motivation right there. It could be an employee in an organisation who realises that a 2nd lang would increase their chances of promotion - again a clear,powerful and focused motivation.
    What prevents many learners of an L2 from getting anywhere is that they have only a vague wishy-washy idea of why they want to learn it or what they would do with it. Thinking ' It might be nice to learn some Lg X 'won't get them very far.
    I met many people who never got beyond lesson 3 in Buntús Cainte in trying to learn Gaelic . Lacking a tangible motivation ,the project kept slipping to the bottom of their priority list at no cost.
    Best of luck with your laudable linguistic endeavours . Buena suerte.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 408 ✭✭Unregistered39


    Omackeral wrote: »
    You get better at English while you’re at it.

    I’m learning Spanish myself the last couple of years. Duolingo is good, if formulaic, but I’d fully recommend going to actual classes if you’re serious about it. Can’t beat interacting with others and asking questions. Online stuff misses nuance.

    A little thing I did to build vocabulary was wrote Spanish words on post-its and stick them around the house until the word was burned into my brain. Sounds weird but it works!

    Best of luck.

    Ha! I did this when I started out. Post-its on the walls, the kettle, inside the bathroom cabinet - I'll never forget the words though!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    I've dabbled in a few languages over time and bought various stuff. I invested in a full Michel Thomas kit, found it very expensive, and in no way exceptional given its price. I've never used Rosetta, but again given its price it would in my opinion need to be super. I get the impression that it's huge into advertising itself, and that in itself would make me wary. Those who have used it may think differently.
    There was a company in Dublin years ago doing vocabulary cassettes in all the major European languages ( and Irish.) I wonder if it's past tense or if they converted to CDs. I found them very good, no repetition.so alot was fitted in. Courses drove me up the wall when you had to wait ten minutes to start learning while they told you what an easy language it was, and how you would be fluent in three months and told you how to sit back and relax and breathe in and out etc. All I wanted to know then was the relevant word for bulls++t.
    Duolingo is good if you're starting from scratch but it won't make you fluent. In fact, my friend, unless you're Einstein fluency means living in the language for a minimum of
    2-3 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    feargale wrote: »
    Duolingo is good if you're starting from scratch but it won't make you fluent. In fact, my friend, unless you're Einstein fluency means living in the language for a minimum of
    2-3 years.
    I don't feel so bad about not being fluent after living there for one year now! :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    rapul wrote: »
    Just get better at Irish your ****ing Irish!

    There's always one.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single post by you in an Irish language thread.
    I speak Irish, and whenever I see yobs come into boards.ie to insult the Irish language or those who speak it I counter it and call them out. But I do not preach to others about the language, or claim they have any obligation to speak it, any more than I would lecture them on an obligation to practise or not any particular religion. Those things are their business.
    It is people like you and attitudes like yours that have caused a large section of the Irish people to despise the language.
    Apologies to others here for going off track, but the intrusion which I have replied to was uncalled for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    Podcasts
    Lightspeed spanish
    Spanishobsessed.com
    Michel Thomas is ok for beginning with but don't expect any miracles with it

    TV shows
    Extr@s
    Destinos
    Cuéntame
    Elite

    Resources
    Spanish Dict
    LinQ could be ok but I never got into the habit with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Here is a website that does online bilingual books.

    https://albalearning.com/
    https://albalearning.com/audiolibros/lovecraft/elgrito-sp-en.html

    https://albalearning.com/audiolibros/andersen/abuelita-sp.html

    You can read just with spanish alone or with english beside. There is also a native spanish speaker reading along.

    Here is one where you hover over the text for the english

    http://www.doppeltext.com/en/bilingual-books/123/alarc%C3%B3n-la-mujer-alta#ch1

    I love this site ..Pollito Tito is partic fav of mine! :p

    https://www.thespanishexperiment.com/stories

    Routledge reference grammars a new reference of modern spanish grammar :)

    Also if there are things you are interested in get some books in spanish about them. :)

    I am currently reading las brujas viajes by Terry Pratchet! Also Danny el campeon del mundo!

    I know you said you don't like youtube. Well in this case its imperative you start listening to spanish songs and movies. Maybe you could get some tv channels too?

    I mean you can learn yo estaba bailando from a book but it would be much more fun if you learnt it from DUKI


    Also check out Bad Bunny yo perreo solo! :P

    I also think you need to find a native speaker to chat to. And I think you need some formal classes.

    Not true that its a waste of time learning one form over the other.

    Every region has its own peculiarities when it vomss to accents, pronunciation, slang, etc. But They can all understand each other.

    Even within countries there are differences between one place and another..

    Argentinians use the word vos instead of tu, which has implications for verbs forms. Its distinctive but certainly not incomprehensible to people from other countries.
    I agree.

    You do use Vos in spain ...just not that often and in the same way as Argentinians do. You will need to learn it for Spanish in spain too eventually.

    Basically in Argentinian they say vos sos ...instead of tu es ....its just sort of yall are instead of you are ..but they use it for singular.

    I mean tu quieres ...doesnt really SOUND like it changes it just changes in spelling vos queres it isn't anything particularly special or weird in spoken spanish... habláis = hablás coméis =comés sentís =sentís. It actually isn't hard to understand. It doesn't sound that different. You just have to train your ear to different accents really.It comes from the "vosotros" form "sois" and "queréis", but the meaning is different depending on the country/region you're in. But if you are learning basic spanish you know you need to know vosotros.

    In actual practise its never an issue. So don't worry about it. Just concentrate on trying to learn as much as you can and learn thoroughly.

    As for mexican spanish again uestedes is still used in spain you just use it less. Vosotros is still used in Mexico ..you just rarely use it.

    Also mexican spanish is great for starting because they speak quite slowly and clearly.

    I can understand Argentinian Spanish just as well as i can madrid spanish. Its really not that different. When i can't understand its not the dialect that is the issue its just my spanish isn't good enough.

    I think people make excuses for not understand spanish like its the dialect etc. Its simply they don't have enough spanish. Yes there might be the odd sentence etc but its not THAT different.



    Also you have to remember that in spain ...latin american movies music etc ...have a huge impact on young culture and the way people speak.

    Its like Hiberno english etc ...we would say ...i do be walking home ...i 'm only after getting off the bus etc..we would say Ah sure i am great am't I?. These are also differently grammatically from ...I have just gotten off the bus. And no other english speaking country contracts or 'uses am I not ?' anymore. But someone from England would understand us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    Have heard a lot about this before actually on the South American /Latin vs actual Spanish.

    I’m not sure, whichever is going to be carried better around the world I suppose! I would holiday in America a good bit and Europe.

    What’s the thoughts on the difference between both?

    The basic thing between the americans and european spanish is the ceceo and the fact that europeans don't annunciate vowels clearly. Mexicans tend to lean into vowels..much the same way Americans do compared to english people. Spanish vowels are short and clipped. And people from the south will drop s etc or sometimes even ds. Whereas latin americans tend to communicate very clearly.

    The first time i was learning spanish it was from a spanish woman from catalonia (yes she called herself spanish and she spoke spanish with a central madrid accent) and her husband was from Argentina. I never had any issue understanding him. Oh people will say there is this SH sound. Like Yo become SHO...don't worry its more like they make the Y sound so hard its becoming a sho...you can still tell its yo. And because ll in spanish is a y sound too they do it will ll. But its just y being done so hard it sounds sho...like ysho...I hope you can understand me. It might not make sense but if you here an Argentinian say Yo you would get it. Yo mo llamo ...could sound a tiny bit ..ySho mo shllamo but you will still understand it. Don't be scared.

    Mexican spanish ...honestly is probably the most clear.

    Usted in spain is really only reserved for ...a really old person. They might use ustedes for formal occasions. But mostly for plural forms they use vosotros.

    In South/Latin America they generally use Usted for the singular and ustedes for the plural form.

    Then there is Tuteo vrs Voseo ...Vos is used in a lot of latin american countries ..not just Argentina.

    Don't worry about it though. Whatever you decide to learn you will be understood so long as you speak clearly. But honestly in spoken spanish the way vos conjugates the verb in the present tense doesn't sound that diff. So don't worry you still get they are talking about you etc.

    Here is an easy way to remember USTED ...the verb conjugated for the formal you ..like you are talking about he or she. él/ella/usted habla

    Ustedes conjugates like ellos

    The only thing i think you need to worry about is if you get into a habit of speaking european spanish ..and you go to mexico ...it will be hard to change an accent. And the ceceo or 'lips' (dont call it a lisp tho) is very noticeable but hard to get rid of.

    Mexicans also speak in a more eloquent polite way. So that is something to be aware of. Like using ustedes all the time. They sound quite educated.


    Spain is a little more informal. And they will think you feel uncomfortable if you say usted/ustedes a lot.

    Things like senorita seem to be used less in spain by young women ...senora to be PC ...but in latin american its still senorita. Although that can be a generation thing.

    Of course what spanish you want to learn depends on where you want to go etc. But you really need to understand as many dialects as you can. Because they will actually help you understand the language and how it developed.

    Dont worry in practice you won't actually have an issue understanding latin american spanish. Its much clearer!

    Some latin american countries have some influence from other countries ..argentinian spanish can sound italian ..they have a lot of italian influence ..and italian slang.

    Obv mexican slang .chilean slang etc can be diff. But i have noticed latin American slang is being used by spanish young people now. Its mostly from latin american films and rappers etc.

    Like the same way we see american films etc and use their slang.

    that is all i can think of..sorry the above is so scatty!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I'm aware of the differences.

    If the Op wants to go to Mexico though it's wasting their time learning Castilian.

    There's a lot of American based resources depending on what the Op's choice of dialect.
    Not at all.

    In mexican spanish Usted is just conjugated like el /ella in european spanish

    In mexican spanish Ustedes is just conjugated like ellos ellas is in european spanish.

    Vos just takes away the “i” from the -ar/-er vosotros conjugation. So vosotros sois =vos sos, vosotros habláis = vos hablás, vosotros tenéis = vos tenés etc. They actually sound very alike in spoken spanish.

    Plus you have to learn usted / ustedes in european spanish anyways. They do use it in some parts of spain or certain formal situations. They also use usted/ustedes everywhere in situations where its formal or polite in spain too.

    Ustedes /usted is just infrequently used in spain. Just as vosotros is infrequently used in mexico. But i mean ..in mexico kids will be taught vosotros in school. They just don't use it ever. But they do see Spanish films or read Spanish books also online ...all Spanish speakers talk to each other like we talk to americans etc. And they have folk songs and poems that use it.



    The first time I heard latin american spanish i was like ..why is this considered so different?

    If you know how to conjugate fully in european spanish you can conjugate in latin america.

    Yes there will be slang etc or colloquialism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,123 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    How much more expensive is Rosetta Stone over others?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

    https://www.spanishobsessed.com/academy/ these guys offer them. 1 hour per week for 8 weeks and you can choose your level. Only 3 weeks in but it's helpful as there are only 3 students in our class so you get a decent amount of practise in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    https://www.spanishobsessed.com/academy/ these guys offer them. 1 hour per week for 8 weeks and you can choose your level. Only 3 weeks in but it's helpful as there are only 3 students in our class so you get a decent amount of practise in.

    Oh that looks really good. I've done a good bit of Duolingo but need to speak. I would say I'm more beginner than pre intermediate but unfortunately the 4-5pm time slot for beginner doesn't work for me :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭global23214124


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Oh that looks really good. I've done a good bit of Duolingo but need to speak. I would say I'm more beginner than pre intermediate but unfortunately the 4-5pm time slot for beginner doesn't work for me :(

    If you are looking for flexibility and to get speaking with you could try Italki to find a teacher. Prices + Quality vary but they have reviews to check and the times are very flexible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?
    Cervantes Institute is doing them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there are zoom based instructor led classes in Spanish at all?

    I can pass you details of an experienced spanish teacher who works via zoom if you like.

    usually cheaper to go directly to the individual rather than through institutes. So depending on your needs, that might work best for you.

    Send me a PM if you need the contact details :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭jamesbondings


    From my experience.

    If you ever intend on using spanish proffesionally then i would suggest get classes. Understand the structure of the language, spellings, past tense etc. I learned spanish in los calles when i lived there as a teenager, i then went to university and struggled with the spanish side of it - although I am fluent and by far the most advanced at speaking i couldnt get my head around the basics.

    If just learning how to speak it, then any of the resources above will help you out, with the current climate learning in Spain isnt really an option. I would also say that spanish is spanish, the same way english is english (ie fanny in america, is not what it is here) to catch a bus in spain is to have sex with a bus in argentina, trial and error! Enjoy, I love being able to speak another language but dont get enough practice here in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    There are actually 2 past tenses in spanish.

    And that is NOT counting ANY of the compound tenses(he estado/ he sido etc) . You have the imperfecto de indictivo and the preterite. And they use them both. One for (lets say estar)...i was here WHEN eg (estaba estabas etc)....and one for i was here last tues ..then. eg (estuvé estuviste etc)

    Also ser is a verb that is not just irregular in form ..but in the way its used ...In that the above rule is not true for ser.
    ike for example they use era , eras etc(imprefecto de indictivo tense) of ser where you would think they would use fuí /fuiste/fué etc(preterite) and its just idiomatic. Like i can't give you a rule.

    There are 18 tenses in spanish inc the compound ones..and you need to get to grips with all of them ...Because unlike english the spanish use the subjunctive ALL the time. Estuviera estuvieras .even estuviese ..etc Hubiera estado etc.

    I mean i hear them all the time in make up tutorials on youtube etc.



    Plus the use of ser vrs estar ...


    Its not like french where the passe simple is only in books....they use ALL the tenses in spoken spanish.


    Honestly the BEST thing is to listen to natural conversation.

    Watching Paquita Salas will help you with grammar :P

    Yeah get some lessons ..but get some with a NATIVE speaker.

    I have to say tho....before studying it MORE formally ....i wouldn't have been able to explain ser vrs estar to you ...or era vrs fui....i would have only have been able to say that it was idiomatic. Whereas ..i can't KIND OF explain it now. (basically its idiomatic :P )

    All i know is era is things you were ...and fui ..is things that happened. Unless its idiomatically not the case :P

    Estaba is places you were ..when something happened (preterite is an incompleted action in the past ..except of course for ser!) ...estuvé just a place you were .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    There are more than two past tenses in Spanish. As is the case in English.

    Here's a basic explanation:

    1. You have the Preterite . This would be something like "I went to the shop" or "I spoke to my friend"... It gives a sense of an action being fully completed.

    2. Then there's the Imperfecto. This would be something like "I was going to the shop" or "I was speaking to my friend". This is a descriptive tense. It gives a sense that something was happening (the 'was' and the "..ing" are key here). It is also used to describe characteristics of things in the past "when I was young, I was shy and I had blonde hair". It is also used to describe past habits "I used to go to the shop". Stuff that happened more than once in the past (gives a sense of something being ongoing over a period of time in the pasT)

    3. You then have the preterito perfecto e.g. "I have been to the shop" or "I have spoken to my friend". It gives us a sense that something happened in the past but its effect is still relevant in the present.

    4. You also have the pluscuamperfecto - e.g. "I had been to the shop"... Another good example of this tense would be "When I got to the station, the train HAD ALREADY LEFT". It is used to refer to incidents that happened in the past, BEFORE another past event.

    You then have past uses of the subjunctive mood, which would be perhaps the most challenging thing for an English speaker to learn.

    Regarding the point about learning from native speakers; a native speaker wouldn't necessarily be able to explain all of this to an English speaker in English. This is necessary to form a proper understanding of the language.

    Without denying the obvious benefits of learning from native speakers, I know Spanish learners who prefer to learn from non-native speakers who can understand things better from the non-native point of view and who have learned the language in the same way to them.

    What you need is someone who is as close as possible to being fully bilingual. Someone who can explain grammatical concepts very well in English (and relate them to the english language) while also having a deep understanding of Spanish and its many native contexts. Having a native Speaker with poor english is not very helpful when it comes to understanding grammar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    i wouldn't have been able to explain ser vrs estar to you .

    Regarding Ser and Estar.

    Both of these verbs mean "to be".

    Ser generally feels more "permanent" e.g. soy aburrido (I am boring) or soy alto (I am tall). It's an inherent characteristic that is not liable to change.

    Estar feels more temporary e.g. estoy aburrido (I am bored) or estoy feliz (I am happy). These are moods which are liable to change fairly frequently.

    There are other situations when both are used and indeed there some exceptions to the above, but this serves as a useful basic explanation of both.

    The verb "haber" also means "to be" but it is more to confirm the existence of something e.g. "HAY un bar cerca de mi casa" (there is a pub near my house).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Regarding Ser and Estar.

    Both of these verbs mean "to be".

    Ser generally feels more "permanent" e.g. soy aburrido (I am boring) or soy alto (I am tall). It's an inherent characteristic that is not liable to change.

    Estar feels more temporary e.g. estoy aburrido (I am bored) or estoy feliz (I am happy). These are moods which are liable to change fairly frequently.

    There are other situations when both are used and indeed there some exceptions to the above, but this serves as a useful basic explanation of both.

    .

    It really doesn't work that way. Your explanation would be incorrect.



    I mean you say ESTA MUERTO....he is dead.



    A lot of dialects WILL say soy feliz (inc in spain). Except for a certain phrase estoy feliz y contento. Which is always estoy.

    You also say soy pobre. And you say soy culpable. But to say soy aburrido would just mean i am borring. And estoy aburrido i am bored.

    You say...Soy consciente de (i am aware of ) ...estoy consciente (I am awake)

    Also you say antes era morena pero ahora soy rubia.

    La puerta fue abierta ..the door was opened ....not permament but you use ser.



    When speaking of location of things ..you estar ..but when speaking of location of EVENTS use ser.

    And i lived in spain for two years as a kid. Went to a spanish speaking school etc.

    Also andar ..(to walk) is sometimes used instead of estar.

    Some impermanent adjectives just trigger ser ...


    The relationship between the two verbs has been evolving over hundreds of years ...therefore its highly idiomatic.

    My advice is don't worry about it now. But be aware of it.

    I actually don't think its something you can learn by rote ..i think you have to listen to people speaking ...and read a lot.

    Don't get me started on the whole era/ fue ..thing.

    WHAT I MEANT WAS ...when i was a kid living in spain....I knew HOW to use ser and estar ...but i couldn't have EXPLAINED why they were used this way. There was no rule. And there IS no hard rule. Its very idiomatic and complex.

    Going back to spanish ....as an adult ...helped me be able to explain the WHY.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    There are more than two past tenses in Spanish.

    :rolleyes: Its why i said
    not counting the compound tenses
    and then listed some of them
    I KNOW ...that is why i put them in my post. The compound tenses

    But they are all the same you just learn the past part for ser its sido


    He sido habia sido hubé sido haya sido hubiera sido

    Either you didn't read my post or you don't know the compound tenses in spanish and so didn't recognize them.
    4. You also have the pluscuamperfecto - e.g. "I had been to the shop"... Another good example of this tense would be "When I got to the station, the train HAD ALREADY LEFT". It is used to refer to incidents that happened in the past, BEFORE another past event.

    I literally put them above your post in MY post if you read it.
    here are 18 tenses in spanish inc the compound ones..and you need to get to grips with all of them ...Because unlike english the spanish use the subjunctive ALL the time. Estuviera estuvieras .even estuviese ..etc Hubiera estado etc.


    Yep that is WHY i put them in my post. I am well aware of them. I went to school IN spain in spanish as a kid.

    Spanish has 2 versions of the pluascuamperfecto

    Hubiera and hubiese

    Then there is hubiere ....but you only see that in legal texts. Its the future pluscuamperfecto its rarely used tho....but the other two hubiera ..hubiese and estuviera /estuviese (imperf de subjunct) etc are used all the time.



    And yes I ALSO mention the subjunctive in my previous post.

    And we do have it in english ....we just don't use it much. Or some people don't.

    I have no issues learning the subjunctive personally. 'Ojala fuera viernes.' 'I wish it were friday.'


    Learn from a native spanish speaker ..who has had to learn a second language of their own. A non native speaker can't do it.
    Having a native Speaker with poor english is not very helpful when it comes to understanding grammar.

    ALL your classes should be 100% in spanish.

    Understanding grammar is not going to help you use it. Trust me. I used it years before i understood it.

    Anyway no teacher can teach you a language ..you have to put in the work yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ALSO worth noting in spain they will say ...Ha costado instead of cuesta a lot

    In that they use the perfecto de indictivo / preterito perfecto whichever you want to call it. more than the preterite ...whereas in a lot of latin america its the opposite.

    I've no idea why ...nor why its a thing. Maybe if i keep studying i will find out :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver



    WHAT I MEANT WAS ...when i was a kid living in spain....I knew HOW to use ser and estar ...but i couldn't have EXPLAINED why they were used this way. There was no rule. And there IS no hard rule. Its very idiomatic and complex.

    Why don't you get your non Spanish, non Spanish speaking ma to sign up to the Board and explain it all to us? I mean, her word was gospel on other topics in this discussion you don't have a clue about, so why not this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Why don't you get your non Spanish, non Spanish speaking ma to sign up to the Board and explain it all to us? I mean, her errors was gospel on other topics in this discussion you don't have a clue about, so why not this?

    I spent two years living in spain. And I am correct. I spent several years learning the language.

    You don't say es muerto ..you say esta muerto. And you don't get more permanent than dead.





    You do not say la fiesta estuvo el viernes you say la fiesta fue el viernes. You dont say fui un estudiante you say era un estudiante.
    And soy feliz is actually very common.










    7661023.jpg


    I await your apology beaver .

    I worked hard ..to get where i am in spanish ..and i am not going to be told by someone like you that i don't know what i am talking about ...when clearly i do. And I am certainly not going to be spoken to LIKE THAT.

    Sorry for being able to speak another language.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    MOD NOTE

    No habla Espanol myself, so I can't speak to who's right or wrong or whatever ...but let's keep it on topic and not get personal, right?

    Be nice to each other, mmkay ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I am happy to be polite. Its nicer.

    I am right. :)

    You don't say el es muerto. You say el esta muerto.

    Spanish has two past simple tenses...and the normal compound ones we have....just as i said in my original post.

    Ojala estuvieras conmigo ahora. I wish you were with me now. Subjunctive . Hubieras podido conmigo aqui. You could have been with me here. Pluscuamperfecto

    había estado tres hombres aqui there had been three men here.

    You say la puerta fue abierto ...the door was opened ..even tho its not a permanent state..you use ser..



    Cuando ella era joven! When she was young ....but she is not young now. But you still use ser.

    You say soy consciente de ..i am aware of.. You also say Soy decidida...I am resolute.

    Also peasant ...

    No HABLO espanol ...:D

    Sorry i had too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    Either you didn't read my post or you don't know the compound tenses in spanish and so didn't recognize them

    I haven't read all of your posts so apologies if I have missed something you said. I was responding to your comments that you struggle to explain the difference between ser and estar and a couple of other things.
    I went to school IN spain in spanish as a kid.

    yet you cannot explain the difference between ser and estar. And many native speakers cannot explain such differences either. So, if anything, this reinforces my own point that native speakers are not inevitably better teachers than non native speakers.
    He sido habia sido hubé sido haya sido hubiera sido

    Hubé is not a Spanish word.
    Spanish has 2 versions of the pluascuamperfecto...Hubiera and hubiese

    Again, this is incorrect. Hubiese/hubiera are the imperfect subjunctive i.e. imperfecto de subjuntivo. In other words, they are past tense subjunctives. They are not the pluscuamperfecto.
    ALL your classes should be 100% in spanish.

    I disagree. There's a counterproductive pretentiousness around this and it inhibits teaching. Many students benefit greatly from English explanations of the tenses, as I proved in my original posts which I think were quite clear explanations of the nature of some tenses.
    Understanding grammar is not going to help you use it. Trust me. I used it years before i understood it

    I don't need to trust you. I have studied the language to a very high level and spent many years living in Spanish speaking countries including Argentina. I lived and worked in many types of communities, poor and rich, immigrant and native. I have a solid understanding of Spanish language in all its forms including slang, formal usage etc. It is the first language spoken in my home.
    Anyway no teacher can teach you a language ..you have to put in the work yourself.

    I agree with this. It's like anything, if you enjoy it and pursue it and put the time in, you will learn. There are not really any shortcuts. It's not easy to become fluent in Spanish, despite what some people would have you believe.
    Learn from a native spanish speaker ..who has had to learn a second language of their own. A non native speaker can't do it.

    Not true that non-natives cannot teach Spanish. Some of the best Spanish teachers we have in this country are Irish. I know some of them personally. Also, I am Irish and I can teach the language a lot better than most of the native speakers I know. There are many things to consider when choosing a teacher. I say this without denying the need to engage with natives or the obvious advantages that natives have when they are good teachers.

    It is indeed very useful at times to use English as a comparative means of learning. Funnily enough, only last week I spoke to someone who is learning Spanish and told me that they NEED grammatical concepts to be explained in English. Students will have different learning styles also, so this should be taken into account.

    In my early days studying the language, I had some native teachers who had zero English and this often proved more of an obstacle than anything else.

    Translation is part of language learning. For example, if you are studying Spanish to English translation, you will be best off with a native English speaker who speaks Spanish. If you are studying English- Spanish, the opposite is true.
    There are many things to take into account when looking for a teacher.


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