Homemade car stand. Thoughts?

MrCostington · 22-08-2020 7:24pm #1

Hi,

I'm making 4 stands to put my car on for working under it. I'll jack it up and put them under the tyres.

It's 20 in by 12 in and 5 in high.

Any thoughts on the safety of it?

Thanks!

Ps this is just a mockup, I will screw it together.

kadman · 22-08-2020 7:57pm

Is 5" height to the bottom of the wheel a bit low. Sounds low

RobAMerc · 22-08-2020 7:59pm

here is my attempt. I went a bit lazy, as didnt want to jack up all four corners.

she drove up on these really easily - I did chock the rear wheels, although you cant see it here.

kadman · 22-08-2020 8:01pm

These give more height for small money.

https://www.micksgarage.com/d/car-ramps/products/537967/draper-2-tonne-drive-on-car-ramps-pair-?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhIP6BRCMARIsALu9Lfkk118G5ZeKL_AMIL8PDa2xInB3LL5XWJpfz_DStv-ebY5Q29NpPqsaAiK6EALw_wcB

Its very hard to do any work on a car, lying under neath it. What work are you intending to do?

Testacalda · 22-08-2020 8:04pm

MrCostington wrote: »

Any thoughts on the safety of it?

The design looks pretty strong anyway and given its size and proportion it would be perfectly steady

kadman · 22-08-2020 8:13pm

Or cheaper again and more height
https://www.donedeal.ie/tools-for-sale/6-ton-axle-stands-2-pair-on-box/23216455?campaign=14

Given that you are going to use 4x2 cls timber and screws, thae axle stands are a cheaper option
and will last longer.
Your lift blocks will do the job required.

MrCostington · 22-08-2020 8:38pm

Hi thanks for the feedback. And good to hear it looks safe.

I know 5 inches is not much, but I had two wheels up on the kerb which is 4.5 and I was able to get under. I'm very slim

I can have the option of putting another layer on .

I'll be changing the engine oil, filter is underneath, and the gearbox and diff oil. And other stuff as it comes up.

Kadman, thanks for the links. I know this sounds silly, but those ramps (not just the ones you linked, any I mean) always look unstable to me. I do have axel stands like the ones you linked (ratchet ones) but again I think I'd me more comfortable with the blocks.

If I need to remove wheels I'l use the stands and put the blocks under the sill as a fail safe.

MrCostington · 22-08-2020 8:44pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

here is my attempt. I went a bit lazy, as didnt want to jack up all four corners.

she drove up on these really easily - I did chock the rear wheels, although you cant see it here.

How high was that lift? You look to have used 6 or 8 by 2 there?

Jag looking good!

MAJJ · 22-08-2020 9:18pm

kadman wrote: »

These give more height for small money.

https://www.micksgarage.com/d/car-ramps/products/537967/draper-2-tonne-drive-on-car-ramps-pair-?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhIP6BRCMARIsALu9Lfkk118G5ZeKL_AMIL8PDa2xInB3LL5XWJpfz_DStv-ebY5Q29NpPqsaAiK6EALw_wcB

Its very hard to do any work on a car, lying under neath it. What work are you intending to do?

I like the idea of these but I always wonder would these not slide when you try to drive onto them.

kadman · 22-08-2020 9:40pm

MAJJ wrote: »

I like the idea of these but I always wonder would these not slide when you try to drive onto them.

I cannot see how they would slide away from you, the rotation of the wheel
when you drive towards them would be pulling the ramps towards the car surely??

bobbyy gee · 22-08-2020 9:47pm

wood will break and splinter buy some jack stands

RobAMerc · 23-08-2020 9:13am

MrCostington wrote: »

I know this sounds silly, but those ramps (not just the ones you linked, any I mean) always look unstable to me. I do have axel stands like the ones you linked (ratchet ones) but again I think I'd me more comfortable with the blocks.

I have to say I feel the same, I think the likelihood of a dodgy weld on those, or me damaging them driving onto them is way higher than the car splitting the wood or crushing it in any way.

MrCostington wrote: »

How high was that lift? You look to have used 6 or 8 by 2 there?

Jag looking good!

Thanks - its about 7 inches all in. I also have jack stands which I used to proper her up while the wheels were off, but if I can I rather keep them on and drive up onto these.

listermint · 23-08-2020 9:19am

kadman wrote: »

These give more height for small money.

https://www.micksgarage.com/d/car-ramps/products/537967/draper-2-tonne-drive-on-car-ramps-pair-?gclid=Cj0KCQjwhIP6BRCMARIsALu9Lfkk118G5ZeKL_AMIL8PDa2xInB3LL5XWJpfz_DStv-ebY5Q29NpPqsaAiK6EALw_wcB

Its very hard to do any work on a car, lying under neath it. What work are you intending to do?

Everytime I see them i cringe, I mean I'm sure they've been safety tested properly but the gauge and size of the angle bar they use just doesn't sit well with me. I'd never buy them.

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 1:32pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

wood will break and splinter buy some jack stands

I don't think so, the wood will be in compression.

I did a test with just one 4x2 and no central support, No cracks or anything.

kadman · 23-08-2020 4:17pm

Wood is in compression at 90 degrees to the fibre direction. In this case its weaker than if compression
happens on the end grain of the timber, as in a timberframe scenarioo.

If the timber has support directly under the tyre, and directly under each layer. Then support
issues wont occur. Support problems occur when you have timber in this scenario, either of a
thickness issue, or support issue.

This wont happen, if its basically a layer cake construction, and no unsupported layers.

Pkiernan · 23-08-2020 4:19pm

For the price of an extra 4 by 2, I'd have no gaps, just a solid stack

Pkiernan · 23-08-2020 4:22pm

One tip...stae some webbing/strapping about 8 inches long to one side to use as a carry handle

RobAMerc · 23-08-2020 5:47pm

wouldnt Mr costigans design be stronger and a bit taller if he put the middle layers on their edge ?
any stability issues would be removed by cross brace on top layer.

CJhaughey · 23-08-2020 6:09pm

I'd buy a sleeper and cut it to whatever size I needed, they are 200x100 and solid timber.
~€20 per sleeper roughly.

kadman · 23-08-2020 6:19pm

Built up layer on layer, and rotate direction of each layer by 90 degrees,

job done.

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 7:55pm

kadman wrote: »

Wood is in compression at 90 degrees to the fibre direction. In this case its weaker than if compression
happens on the end grain of the timber, as in a timberframe scenarioo.

If the timber has support directly under the tyre, and directly under each layer. Then support
issues wont occur. Support problems occur when you have timber in this scenario, either of a
thickness issue, or support issue.

This wont happen, if its basically a layer cake construction, and no unsupported layers.

Thanks. Just to clarify, I will be doing it as per my OP pics. The pics I posted today was just to see how it would hold up with just one 2x4 and no support in the middle. There was no bending that I could see and no cracks.

I will have a support directly under the middle where the tyre sits. It's 20" long, so it will have 4" support, 4" gap, 4" support, 4" gap, 4" support. That must surely be, much more, than enough to support about 450kg?

Or, do you think slotting in an extra support so the gaps are 2" is needed. And yes, each layer is 90deg to the next one.

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 7:58pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

wouldnt Mr costigans design be stronger and a bit taller if he put the middle layers on their edge ?
any stability issues would be removed by cross brace on top layer.

If I understand you, you mean put the middle of the sandwich upright? I think that would be unstable. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible as my woodworking skills have been dormant since the Inter Cert!!

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 8:00pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

I'd buy a sleeper and cut it to whatever size I needed, they are 200x100 and solid timber.
~€20 per sleeper roughly.

God ideal but I've already bought all my 2x4s and cut them up

kadman · 23-08-2020 8:59pm

MrCostington wrote: »

If I understand you, you mean put the middle of the sandwich upright? I think that would be unstable. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible as my woodworking skills have been dormant since the Inter Cert!!

Keep them flat as you have done, its simple and the best.
Slab form is what its known as.

LOts of ways this could be done, but the motto KISS works.:)

RobAMerc · 23-08-2020 9:07pm

MrCostington wrote: »

If I understand you, you mean put the middle of the sandwich upright? I think that would be unstable. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible as my woodworking skills have been dormant since the Inter Cert!!

I am not sure what you mean by upright, but what I mean is putting them on the 2inch edge. Better still if you added a fourth or fifth and maybe consider laminating them together, but the cross brace at the top would remove any stability issues.

For lack of anything better to do, I have drawn a diagram of what i mean - from side and front view.

Anyway, if its tall enough for you, I have no doubt its strong enough as is.

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 9:09pm

Thanks kadman! I'm sure you would add a few dovetail joints, and then give it a French polish!

Do you think the one support in the middle is enough?

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 9:15pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

I am not sure what you mean by upright, but what I mean is putting them on the 2inch edge. Better still if you added a fourth or fifth and maybe consider laminating them together, but the cross brace at the top would remove any stability issues.

For lack of anything better to do, I have drawn a diagram of what i mean - from side and front view.

Anyway, if its tall enough for you, I have no doubt its strong enough as is.

Hey, many thanks! Yes, that is what I understood you were saying.

I think I'll stick to my plan as per my OP pic, and your first pic (EDIt I see they are the same but 2 views). I was playing around with jacking the car, and I don't think I'd get that height anyway, as the wheels drop on the suspension as you jack it (or course I know you know that!). If I do find I need more I'll add it to the bottom, just like in your second pic,

mickdw · 23-08-2020 9:41pm

kadman wrote: »

Keep them flat as you have done, its simple and the best.
Slab form is what its known as.

LOts of ways this could be done, but the motto KISS works.:)

Hard to beat a big lump of wood.
I hate axle stands. Maybe ok for supporting 1 corner but anymore and it all looks far too dodgy to get under.

unkel · 23-08-2020 10:05pm

I also don't trust axle stands at all. If someone gave the car a big push, the whole setup would collapse. When I was in the OP's position many years ago, I thought of building my own wooden ramps, but I would have gone with the setup that RobAMerc has in above picture. But I changed my mind and I went with the steel ramps. They felt very safe, although I still never liked being under the car for very long.

jmreire · 23-08-2020 10:13pm

I'd be going higher and wider. I made something similar for my car ( E Class w212 ) basically two boxes, 18" high, and the two front wheels drop into them. The box square means that the front wheels cannot go anywhere...either forward or back, and of course no side slipping. 18" clearance from the stand ( less the 4 " or so part of the wheel that is resting in the box) and then you will have another 8" or so as the normal height, given by the suspensions. It's plenty of room to manoeuvre underneath for engine / transmission oil changes. For the rear, I use Draper heavy duty axle stand's, especially when I need the car to be 100% level. I know that you have to jack up the car rather than drive it up on them, but thats not a problem.Its as steady as the rock of Cashel, and I have absolutely no hesitation working under it .

kadman · 23-08-2020 10:24pm

MrCostington wrote: »

Thanks kadman! I'm sure you would add a few dovetail joints, and then give it a French polish!

Do you think the one support in the middle is enough?

No

jmreire · 23-08-2020 10:34pm

kadman wrote: »

No

That's exactly the box I was trying to describe in my post...safest form of raising a car to work underneath. Hardest part is jacking it up, and that is not too hard either with a good trolley jack. That's for the front wheels,,,I'm not so sure about the rear set up in the video though , I don't really like it for some reason. I would just use the axle stands under the chassis rail's or rear axle,

MrCostington · 23-08-2020 10:45pm

Good to hear I'm not the only one worried about axle stands! Exactly, they look like it would be easy to give the car a push and topple them.

Box idea sounds interesting. So you had the car lifted by 14" (18-4)? My jack just goes up to 34cm so even at that I'll have to raise the jack on blocks to slip my thing under the wheels.

galwaytt · 23-08-2020 11:10pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

wood will break and splinter buy some jack stands

No it won't.

If it'll hold a ship in dry dock, it'll hold a car.....

kadman · 24-08-2020 8:11am

MrCostington wrote: »

Good to hear I'm not the only one worried about axle stands! Exactly, they look like it would be easy to give the car a push and topple them.

Box idea sounds interesting. So you had the car lifted by 14" (18-4)? My jack just goes up to 34cm so even at that I'll have to raise the jack on blocks to slip my thing under the wheels.

I personaly think your fears about axle stands used properly are unfounded.

I have used these axle stands for years, and fully extended under beetles I have worked on. And if you can topple these from below, then you can topple your blocks too.

And these are not the el cheapo versions that come from lidl/aldi.

Support stands are all about the base of the stand, the wider the better..
You would have to be the hulk to push a car, PROPERLY set up on these stands

MrCostington · 24-08-2020 8:50am

MrCostington wrote: »

Do you think the one support in the middle is enough?

kadman wrote: »

No

Wheel cribs video

I'm confused here, I'm asking if you think one support in the middle is enough and you say no, but post something with none!

This is what I am planning:

But, do you think I need to do this?

MrCostington · 24-08-2020 8:54am

kadman wrote: »

I personaly think your fears about axle stands used properly are unfounded.

I'm sure you're right, but it's just a personal feel thing ...

Agree re base size, that's why mine will be 12" x 20"

kadman · 24-08-2020 11:52am

2nd pic is a 100% improvement.

Drilled and screwed instead of nailing.

I am still puzzled that this pad of timber totalling 135mm allows you enough room to manouvre
underneath the car, let alone reach around for spanners ect.

I definitely could not get under with them and work at that height.

Of course I am a well fed gossin with 2 damaged shoulders:P

jmreire · 24-08-2020 12:34pm

MrCostington wrote: »

I'm sure you're right, but it's just a personal feel thing ...

Agree re base size, that's why mine will be 12" x 20"

Axle stands , good strong and well designed ones are quite safe. But when placing them you need to be very careful...the first one is not a problem, because the the jack is lifting the side that the stand will go under. The problem is when you jack up the other side, it can shift the position of the first one.. and even topple it over. That's why I always have sledge hammer with me when raising a car on stands...as I lift the 2nd side, I keep checking the first stand, and giving it a few taps to keep it in the correct position. Even when the car is lowered and fully resting on the stands,l give them another few taps with the sledge to "settle" them in position. I've never had an accident with them, but I have seen what badly placed stands can do. But if I'm planning on working underneath the car, I'll jack it up and drop the two front wheels into the "boxes". Then I feel safe working underneath it. I recently changed the auto transmission fluid in a Merc , a job that takes a bit of time, while the car was lifted in this manner. No problem.

24-08-2020 12:46pm

Its annoying when you jack a car at the jack point that you cant put the stand under the jack point or sometimes even close to it because the base of the stand hits the trolly jack.

I always put some folded corrugated cardboard between the car and the stand to protect the car a bit.

Kevhog1988 · 24-08-2020 12:52pm

listermint wrote: »

Everytime I see them i cringe, I mean I'm sure they've been safety tested properly but the gauge and size of the angle bar they use just doesn't sit well with me. I'd never buy them.

I have a set of them in the shed for years and have never had any issue.

KB22 · 24-08-2020 1:18pm

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

I have a set of them in the shed for years and have never had any issue.

Kevhog :- You will never have an issue with your axle stand's. If you leave them in your shed? Regard's KB

MrCostington · 24-08-2020 1:38pm

kadman wrote: »

2nd pic is a 100% improvement.

Drilled and screwed instead of nailing.

I am still puzzled that this pad of timber totalling 135mm allows you enough room to manouvre underneath the car, let alone reach around for spanners ect.

Thanks, yes I plan to drill and screw it together.

It sure won't be very comfortable, but like I said I'm slim and did have two wheels up on the kerb which is about 4.5", I was just under to have a look (and check a part number on the gearbox). It was hard no doubt but doable, and I think having all 4 wheels up will make a difference. Also, amybe the car has better than average ground clearance??

Anyway, if not enough I will extend by 1 layer.

MrCostington · 24-08-2020 1:46pm

BrownFinger wrote: »

I always put some folded corrugated cardboard between the car and the stand to protect the car a bit.

A video I've seen (Kent Bergsma / Mercedessource) suggested reinforced hose:

https://youtu.be/cpOypTmGwUA?t=181

Kevhog1988 · 24-08-2020 1:48pm

KB22 wrote: »

Kevhog :- You will never have an issue with your axle stand's. If you leave them in your shed? Regard's KB

Ive seen the crap halfrauds axle stand collapse in the past

jmreire · 24-08-2020 2:39pm

BrownFinger wrote: »

Its annoying when you jack a car at the jack point that you cant put the stand under the jack point or sometimes even close to it because the base of the stand hits the trolly jack.

I always put some folded corrugated cardboard between the car and the stand to protect the car a bit.

If you look at the sill panel ( its the very bottom panel, running the length of the car, between the wheels) you will find an edge running along it as well. When cars are damaged in an accident, its this "lip" that is used to clamp the car to the jig-... and from this point, the car is hydraulically pulled back into alignment, so it's very strong. Its actually several panels spot welded together that forms the lip. So what I do in the same situation as you, is I put a length of 4 "x 2" x 4 r 5' along the sill under the lip, and jack the car up from there, that leaves the actual jacking point clear. Place the jack just far enough away from the jacking point to allow placement of the axle stand. Never place the jack in in the centre of the sill panel, to try and lift both wheels on the same side, always do it wheel by wheel. Personally, I would never put anything between the jacking point and the jack..for me, its metal to metal all the way, as this is the way its designed to operate. Dont worry to much about damaging the car, it wont happen, if the jack / axle stand is placed correctly. ( as a matter of fact most of the jacks supplied with the car, have a "V" shape in the top of the jack, and this is to allow it to be used along the sill panel lip. Some others have a "spud" at the top and this fit's into the car jacking point. )

RobAMerc · 24-08-2020 10:04pm

kadman wrote: »

I personaly think your fears about axle stands used properly are unfounded.

I like to use axle stands under a cross member or something of the subframe if possible - and I hate the way the axle stands have those 2 "prongs" ( upward part of the top U plates ) - I worry one will bend and cause the car to tip and then slide off ( poorly explained, I know ! ). I would like interchangeable ones, flat when under something flat, U shaped for curved surfaces like an axle

kadman · 24-08-2020 11:54pm

The draper axle stands are 5mm wall thickness of the tube, so no car made could bend these babies.
And the top of the axle stands U shape is probably about 8mm thickness , or more.

These are the best available that I could buy at the time, and i have used them many times.

As Jmreire pointed out, its important to tap each leg of the stand to make sure the 3 legs have firm contact with the
ground, as you dont want them rocking on 2 legs. Thats the proper method of using these.

Combined they carry a weight of 6 ton on each axle stand. And i never ever had any hesitation getting under any vehicle
with these stands.

I bought them for 35 euro a piece at the time, which I thought was expensive, but now they are 80 euro each.

I rarely use them now as I have a full height scissor lift, 7foot to the top of the tables, that are brilliant.

jmreire · 25-08-2020 12:26am

RobAMerc wrote: »

I like to use axle stands under a cross member or something of the subframe if possible - and I hate the way the axle stands have those 2 "prongs" ( upward part of the top U plates ) - I worry one will bend and cause the car to tip and then slide off ( poorly explained, I know ! ). I would like interchangeable ones, flat when under something flat, U shaped for curved surfaces like an axle

Unless the stands had these "prongs" on them, I would not even consider using them....and I have plenty of experience using stands including "Jack- Stands", which are 6' stands used with lift. They are used for maneuvering / positioning a vehicle on a lift.

Isambard · 25-08-2020 4:48pm

two railway sleepers ftw....make sloping ramps and drive it on up. tbh I'd go for purpose built ramps, cheap enough or better still, big jack and axle stands.

MrCostington · 06-09-2020 9:02pm

Hi, just to update you all. After much faffing around, including a false economy of buying a really cheap jack, I finally finished the stands and got the car up on them.

Myself and another guy tried to rock and push the car off them, everything was solid. If anybody can see any reason not to get under it, please let me know.

Thanks!

Homemade car stand. Thoughts?

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