FGM aka Female circumcision

Never Say Never Again · 21-12-2017 11:25pm #1

A small minority of muslim parents believe that female circumcision is a vital part of their culture, some of them are putting their daughters lives in danger with botched home circumcisions, how should we as an nation address this ?

PeterParker957 · 21-12-2017 11:27pm

Never Say Never Again wrote: »

A small minority of muslim parents believe that female circumcision is a vital part of their culture, some of them are putting their daughters lives in danger with botched home circumcisions, how should we as an nation address this ?

Condemn It, kick them out of the country and jail anyone who did it.

splinter65 · 21-12-2017 11:32pm

Well it’s a crime in this country to harm a child, so the parents and the “practitioner” need to be dealt with per se by AGS.
Tragically this will mean that the child will be returned to be “operated on” in some hell hole where it’s acceptable.
Social workers will confirm, if someone is determined to abuse their child, they won’t be deterred, unless the child is removed from them first.

Atlantic Dawn · 21-12-2017 11:34pm

It's their culture, why is nobody locked up when a lads flute is similarly butchered in the name of another religion?

Army_of_One · 21-12-2017 11:35pm

Im getting really fukking tired of threads about muslims.

judeboy101 · 21-12-2017 11:36pm

Ok for boys to be genitally mutilated in Ireland but not girls. Typical.

Annasopra · 21-12-2017 11:36pm

Never Say Never Again wrote: »

A small minority of muslim parents believe that female circumcision is a vital part of their culture, some of them are putting their daughters lives in danger with botched home circumcisions, how should we as an nation address this ?

Make sure that the 2012 law banning it in Ireland is upheld firmly. In addition provide education and preventative support to the communities affected. Next.

SusieBlue · 21-12-2017 11:37pm

Circumcision of either gender for non medically necessary reasons should be illegal, regardless of religion.

PeterParker957 · 21-12-2017 11:37pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's their culture, why is nobody locked up when a lads flute is similarly butchered in the name of another religion?

Oh that's just as wrong too in my opinion.

emo72 · 21-12-2017 11:44pm

http://www.thejournal.ie/female-genital-mutilation-couple-accused-3765298-Dec2017/

this also appeared in the news today. we shouldnt really be cutting our children up.

King George VI · 21-12-2017 11:45pm

Ban them from entering the country. Nobody's tried that before so it should wor-..…. No wait. Nevermind.

Greybottle · 21-12-2017 11:49pm

It's not a Muslim thing, it's more of a cultural one. There's plenty of Christians and other religions/non-religions at it as well. Imprisonment for the parents/practicioners followed by deportation and rescinding citizenship is the only answer IMO. Anybody encouraging it should be treated as incitement to violence, or assaulting somebody.

LirW · 21-12-2017 11:54pm

Wasn't there this guy a while ago in a similar topic where he raved about his and his sons circumcision because his wife has some creepy obsession with it and even tried talking her friends into doing it? Was hilarious.

Jokes aside though, charge people who do that, charge practitioners who do. The more complicated thing though, what if they travel abroad to do it?
When my son was little he was at a childminder together with an African boy. At some point the childminder told me, he's gonna be abroad for 2-3 weeks because his grandfather planned to do a circumcision. That was weird.

Sonics2k · 21-12-2017 11:59pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

Ok for boys to be genitally mutilated in Ireland but not girls. Typical.

I'm no fan of circumcision, but you really can't compare it like for like with FGM.

Mrs OBumble · 22-12-2017 12:04am

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

SusieBlue · 22-12-2017 12:06am

I just don't understand the logic of being handed your brand new heathy gorgeous baby, and then promptly arranging for a piece of their anatomy to be chopped off.

It makes no sense. There are no preventative health benefits. If we held the rest of the body to the same standard, we'd be removing the appendix and the tonsils at birth as well, *just in case* they were to cause any issues in the future.

As for the female mutilation, it's absolutely barbaric to say the least. Why anyone would voluntarily put their daughter through that agony baffles me, they frankly don't deserve to have their children. I don't care what their beliefs are.

PeterParker957 · 22-12-2017 12:07am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

Agreed.

Wibbs · 22-12-2017 12:42am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Agreed.

OK, then would you be OK with the ritual excision of the clitoral hood and part of the labia* of newborn girls? Because the anatomical and medical fact is that's what you're essentially saying you'd be OK with.

Both are "genital mutilation". Both are done for similar reasons. Religion, tradition, "aesthetics", "cleanliness", "hygiene" and most of all "my fathers/mothers were done, so my sons/daughters should be. Just cos. Both are barbaric and ignorant blood rite sacrifices to non existent deities and ignorant tradition and clan affiliation and both should be wiped out from modern civilisation. And legally so.

The main difference between the two is that one is seen as more culturally acceptable compared to the other. Yes FGM is nearly always more brutal, but my point is that we in the West see women/girls bodily autonomy as being sacrosanct, but men/boys bodily autonomy as clearly less so. You've both agreed it is. And the other fact is boys/men are less "valued" in western culture than girls/women. Swap the genders around for other cultures. And how do we regard them? Exactly. There's a bit of pointing out the speck in one's brother's eye and ignoring the beam in our own.

I recall watching an Oprah Winfrey show where she came out against FGM, but another show had her pimping products made from the severed foreskins of newborn boys, with nary an insightful realisation going on.

So yeah, for me, if a Jew or Muslim or [insert whatever backward cultural reason here] wants to lop off a part of their child's genitals, boy or girl, they should be dragged in front of a court of law and good bloody sense and punished for it, until this bronze age nonsense is excised from informed thought.

*male circumcision involves the removal of the prepuce/foreskin, which is analogous to the female clitoral hood and some of the labia majora. Only more enervated tissue is involved. Like I say, would you be OK with that for cultural/religious/Hygiene/Ballsology purposes? I doubt it and you would be dead right.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 22-12-2017 12:52am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's their culture, why is nobody locked up when a lads flute is similarly butchered in the name of another religion?

Very true.

Both practices should be condemned. Especially the ultra orthodox Jewish method of circumcision.

Odhinn · 22-12-2017 12:57am

Never Say Never Again wrote: »

A small minority of muslim parents believe that female circumcision is a vital part of their culture, some of them are putting their daughters lives in danger with botched home circumcisions, how should we as an nation address this ?

It's illegal.

Widdershins · 22-12-2017 1:21am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's their culture, why is nobody locked up when a lads flute is similarly butchered in the name of another religion?

What other religion? Male Circumcision is practised by Muslims more than any other religion.

Also, since you are obviously under the mistaken impression it's a Jewish thing, do you know how few orthodox Jews there are in the world? Referring to something (people think) is a Orthodox Jew thing is a bit like talking about what uncontacted Amazonian tribes do. Pretty much irrelevant to the rest of the world, especially us.

end of the road · 22-12-2017 1:28am

emo72 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/female-genital-mutilation-couple-accused-3765298-Dec2017/

this also appeared in the news today. we shouldnt really be cutting our children up.

if proven guilty hopefully they will receive a very long sentence. it would be 50 years or more if i was in charge.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

ear piercing of children should be banned actually. it's unnecessary and has no place.

Atlantic Dawn · 22-12-2017 2:28am

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm no fan of circumcision, but you really can't compare it like for like with FGM.

You can, fecking around with your kids body before they have a right to decide if they want it or not, it's pure child abuse, what next an Iron Maiden tatoo at 4?

PeterParker957 · 22-12-2017 2:33am

Wibbs wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Agreed.

OK, then would you be OK with the ritual excision of the clitoral hood and part of the labia* of newborn girls? Because the anatomical and medical fact is that's what you're essentially saying you'd be OK with.

Both are "genital mutilation". Both are done for similar reasons. Religion, tradition, "aesthetics", "cleanliness", "hygiene" and most of all "my fathers/mothers were done, so my sons/daughters should be. Just cos. Both are barbaric and ignorant blood rite sacrifices to non existent deities and ignorant tradition and clan affiliation and both should be wiped out from modern civilisation. And legally so.

The main difference between the two is that one is seen as more culturally acceptable compared to the other. Yes FGM is nearly always more brutal, but my point is that we in the West see women/girls bodily autonomy as being sacrosanct, but men/boys bodily autonomy as clearly less so. You've both agreed it is. And the other fact is boys/men are less "valued" in western culture than girls/women. Swap the genders around for other cultures. And how do we regard them? Exactly. There's a bit of pointing out the speck in one's brother's eye and ignoring the beam in our own.

I recall watching an Oprah Winfrey show where she came out against FGM, but another show had her pimping products made from the severed foreskins of newborn boys, with nary an insightful realisation going on.

So yeah, for me, if a Jew or Muslim or [insert whatever backward cultural reason here] wants to lop off a part of their child's genitals, boy or girl, they should be dragged in front of a court of law and good bloody sense and punished for it, until this bronze age nonsense is excised from informed thought.

*male circumcision involves the removal of the prepuce/foreskin, which is analogous to the female clitoral hood and some of the labia majora. Only more enervated tissue is involved. Like I say, would you be OK with that for cultural/religious/Hygiene/Ballsology purposes? I doubt it and you would be dead right.

Why are you quoting me?

I agree with that! It's barbaric and should be banned.

Donald Trump · 22-12-2017 4:15am

I've accidentally mutilated a few ladies with my massive willy back in the day. They all recovered eventually

silverharp · 22-12-2017 8:37am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

its wrong to compare ear piercing to circumcision

PeterParker957 · 22-12-2017 9:15am

silverharp wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're going to compare FGM with circumcision, then im gonna say we should also ban (and enforce /penalise) ear piercing of children for the same reason.

its wrong to compare ear piercing to circumcision

I agreed both should be banned. I don't think theyre in any way equal.

suicide_circus · 22-12-2017 9:32am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4yS08N0xeU

newport2 · 22-12-2017 9:57am

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I just don't understand the logic of being handed your brand new heathy gorgeous baby, and then promptly arranging for a piece of their anatomy to be chopped off.

It makes no sense. There are no preventative health benefits. If we held the rest of the body to the same standard, we'd be removing the appendix and the tonsils at birth as well, *just in case* they were to cause any issues in the future.

As for the female mutilation, it's absolutely barbaric to say the least. Why anyone would voluntarily put their daughter through that agony baffles me, they frankly don't deserve to have their children. I don't care what their beliefs are.

They're terrified their daughters might actually enjoy sex when they're older. God forbid like.

mad muffin · 22-12-2017 10:06am

Hmmm…

I see a lot of people commenting who have no idea. No idea about circumcision. No idea what it is, and are certainly not circumcised themselves.

Let me say first. I don’t agree with circumcision for religious reasons, full stop.

Second you cannot equate fgm with male circumcision. Males just have a piece of skin removed. If you were to equate. It would be akin to removing the gland for males. That’s why for females it’s far worse.

Another thing. For someone who was circumcised at 6 for medical reason, you do, it lose any sensation, or pleasure. None.

silverharp · 22-12-2017 10:32am

mad muffin wrote: »

Hmmm…

I see a lot of people commenting who have no idea. No idea about circumcision. No idea what it is, and are certainly not circumcised themselves.

Let me say first. I don’t agree with circumcision for religious reasons, full stop.

Second you cannot equate fgm with male circumcision. Males just have a piece of skin removed. If you were to equate. It would be akin to removing the gland for males. That’s why for females it’s far worse.

Another thing. For someone who was circumcised at 6 for medical reason, you do, it lose any sensation, or pleasure. None.

on the face of it missus , you dont know much yourself

https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/for-professionals/complications/

FGM aka Female circumcision

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