Now Ye're Talking - to a forest manager

Boards.ie: Niamh · 22-08-2018 9:23am #1

Today we have a forest manager with us who manages commercial forestry in Ireland from planting to clearfell. They have many years experience in the forestry industry and are involved in the management of some privately owned estates around the country.

miamee · 22-08-2018 11:28am

Is there much call for commercial forestry in Ireland? Does most of the wood stay in Ireland or get exported? Are they generally one type of tree or do you look after a variety of tree types?

I was watching something recently about a toilet roll factory in the UK (I know, I know

) and they bought their pulp from forests in Sweden. It showed the whole process from forest to factory. Do you have any idea what finished products your trees end up in?

TheBody · 22-08-2018 11:28am

Thanks for doing this AMA.

A neighbour of mine has an ash tree plantation (around 15 years old). He reported suspected ash die-back to the forest service almost a year ago and after repeatedly e-mailing them he has had no response. It still has not been tested or inspected.

Do you know what the latest approach from the Dept. to this disease is?

What are your thought on the future of ash trees in Ireland?

fepper · 22-08-2018 11:31am

Has the native alder any commercial value in forestry or do you think its literally for the birds,thanks.....

Mech1 · 22-08-2018 11:34am

Are Grey Squirrel numbers doing harm and would i get permission to hunt them with a air rifle?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 11:41am

miamee wrote:

Is there much call for commercial forestry in Ireland? Does most of the wood stay in Ireland or get exported? Are they generally one type of tree or do you look after a variety of tree types?

730,000 ha is under forestry in ireland at this point in time, there is a government grant and premium scheme for land owners to plant forestry and it does not cost them a penny, 4200 hectares of private forestry was planted last year so there is a demand for it !

Most timber harvested in ireland is exported to England with a small proportion going to France,

miamee wrote:

I was watching something recently about a toilet roll factory in the UK (I know, I know ) and they bought their pulp from forests in Sweden. It showed the whole process from forest to factory. Do you have any idea what finished products your trees end up in?

Comercial Conifers go for pulp (used for toilet roll and firewood) Pallet (makes your garden pots and climbing frames and fencing panels) and then sawlog goes for construction timber (to build your house with), so a wide variety of uses !

Harry Palmr · 22-08-2018 11:42am

Do you feel the investment aspect of commercial forestry has been very oversold to the public as a way of making money over the medium term?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 11:43am

TheBody wrote:

Do you know what the latest approach from the Dept. to this disease is?

sorry to hear that, the department has currently suspended the ash reconstitution scheme, I would recommend that your neighbour makes contact with a registered forester like myself to have the forest surveyed, most likely the affected trees would be removed from the forest under the woodland improvement scheme

challengemaster · 22-08-2018 11:44am

Does the forest manager shít in the woods?

mirwillbeback · 22-08-2018 11:45am

Would you have sold Collymore if you had been there in 1994?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 11:45am

fepper wrote:

Has the native alder any commercial value in forestry or do you think its literally for the birds,thanks.....

native Alder grows very vigorously but has poor form in the trees, generally your talking firewood in the early years and then there would be furniture planking down the line

ganmo · 22-08-2018 11:46am

has this years crazy weather had any impact on the forestry sector?

is the presence of a semi state in the sector a help or hindrance?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 11:46am

challengemaster wrote:

Does the forest manager shÃt in the woods?

I've been known to leave a few logs behind me alright

begbysback · 22-08-2018 11:46am

Are three trees really considered to be a forest?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 11:48am

Harry Palmr wrote:

Do you feel the investment aspect of commercial forestry has been very oversold to the public as a way of making money over the medium term?

not really, investment in forestry is still much safer than heading to the stock exchange and is used as a medium to long term investment with a good IRR on your initial investment

siblers · 22-08-2018 11:52am

Is there enough being done to plant native Irish trees or to encourage the planting of native Irish trees? When driving up and down this country you see big forests that have been planted in recent years and they all seem to contain foreign types of tree

TheBully · 22-08-2018 11:55am

Iv got 99 trees...... but a birch ain’t one.

If you could only ever look at one species of tree for the rest of your days what would it be?

Reati · 22-08-2018 11:57am

Not so much a forestry question but Do you think the planning laws need to be updated to force widespread planting in around towns boundaries and the such. Driving past places on the N11 during the day and towns standing out like a sore thumb yet in the States where I travel for work the have built into the forest and it's very much a part of landscape of the towns. Why is there no love for solid planting? Is it a cost thing? Even a nearby to me housing estate that went up they torn down all the boundary trees and put up horrible concrete panels. I don't get it

Second, what's the best trees for screening all a border. I built last year and planned 100s of bareroots, mainly native trees and Griselinia (though many didn't make it through the snow and drought).

BarryD2 · 22-08-2018 12:01pm

Two questions:

In France, Germany, Belgium etc., you see a different type of forest management. It's as if the forest is managed over decades and centuries even. They seem to thin and clear fell smaller plots at a time, so the overall effect is more like a patchwork. In Ireland, we seem to have more of a slash and burn type of management. A plantation is established, there is thinning but then the whole lot is often just cleared and replanted. This has a much greater impact on the landscape, environment and wildlife etc., and usually not a good one. Can the 'European' model be used in Ireland and/or why not?

Would you plant poor land like blanket bog, for the sake of grants?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:06pm

BarryD2 wrote:

In France, Germany, Belgium etc., you see a different type of forest management. It's as if the forest is managed over decades and centuries even. They seem to thin and clear fell smaller plots at a time, so the overall effect is more like a patchwork. In Ireland, we seem to have more of a slash and burn type of management. A plantation is established, there is thinning but then the whole lot is often just cleared and replanted. This has a much greater impact on the landscape, environment and wildlife etc., and usually not a good one. Can the 'European' model be used in Ireland and/or why not?

because the growth rates for comercial timber in ireland is much better than in Europe, in fact the fastest growing forests in Europe are in ireland

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:07pm

BarryD2 wrote:

Would you plant conifers on poor land like blanket bog, for the sake of grants?

no the Forest service will not allow planting on bogs as the trees will not thrive there

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:09pm

TheBully wrote:

If you could only ever look at one species of tree for the rest of your days what would it be?

Italian Alder is a lovely tree but the money is in spruce forests

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:11pm

ganmo wrote:

has this years crazy weather had any impact on the forestry sector?

newly established forest had a serious mortality rate with new saplings due to the extended drought and will have to be replaced this autumn

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:12pm

begbysback wrote:

Are three trees really considered to be a forest?

A forest can be as small as you like but I wouldn't consider it commercially viable though !

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:21pm

Mech1 wrote:

Are Grey Squirrel numbers doing harm and would i get permission to hunt them with a air rifle?

I personally hunt them with an air rifle your welcome to join me ! you can certainly lease the shooting rights on the land if there is no deer pressent they go for cheap !

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:28pm

siblers wrote:

Is there enough being done to plant native Irish trees or to encourage the planting of native Irish trees? When driving up and down this country you see big forests that have been planted in recent years and they all seem to contain foreign types of tree

there is a scheme called the native woodland establishment grant which grant aides there establishment but there is little scope of comercial timber coming from these woods in your lifetime, at the end of the day it is land owners who commit their land to forestry and by in large they will not do so if it does not make economic sense, the government would need to do more in this regard IMO

pajosjunkbox · 22-08-2018 12:44pm

Hi. I've planted about 1500 trees around my house in recent years. I plan to plant a few more trees this Autumn and replacing some of the ones I planted last year as they have died due to this summers weather. What trees would you recommend ? So far I have planted ..

Scott's pine
Silver birch
Rowan
Alder
Larch
Oak
beech
Whitethorn
Holly

Igotadose · 22-08-2018 12:47pm

What risks due to global warming are there to our Irish forests? Pine bark borers or other insect pests? Increased likelihood of wildfires? What would you recommend for citizens to do to our small stands of trees to mitigate these risks?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 12:51pm

pajosjunkbox wrote:

Hi. I've planted about 1500 trees around my house in recent years. I plan to plant a few more trees this Autumn and replacing some of the ones I planted last year as they have died due to this summers weather. What trees would you recommend ? So far I have planted ..

some maple and sycamore might be a nice addition

august12 · 22-08-2018 12:52pm

Do you think there is any prospect of grant for second or subsequent plantations, is there much of a profit from one clearfell to replanting?

punisher5112 · 22-08-2018 12:54pm

How many acres would be needed to be a viable project?

Is land that holds water good or bad?
Obviously not bog but just say at bottoms of hills and just fields that aren't great for anything else.

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 1:03pm

august12 wrote:

Do you think there is any prospect of grant for second or subsequent plantations, is there much of a profit from one clearfell to replanting?

I don't see much scope for it as it is an owner gets a massive windfall of income and does not get taxed on it bar for PRSI and USC and the replanting costs are roughly 10 to 20% of your clearfell revenue in a coniferous forest

(assuming the plantation is managed right and not clearfelled to early)

can't really answer the second part as you have many different forest types and quality considerations to take into account

miamee · 22-08-2018 1:06pm

Thanks for answering my questions

What made you choose forestry as a career? Was it something you've always loved/wanted to do or something you kinda ended up in?

What is a typical day at work for you?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 1:07pm

punisher5112 wrote:

How many acres would be needed to be a viable project?

anything above 10 hectares or 24.71 acres as you get an additional 7% top up on your annual premiums and you also have economies of scale working with you also

punisher5112 wrote:

Is land that holds water good or bad? Obviously not bog but just say at bottoms of hills and just fields that aren't great for anything else.

land that holds water (gleys podzols or even party soils) are ideal for forestry as the water stays in the soil during a hot summer and causes the growing season to be consistent without periods where growth is stunted

august12 · 22-08-2018 1:10pm

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA wrote:

can't really answer the second part as you have many different forest types and quality considerations to take into account

You have more or less answered it for me, I didn't realise the profit was that high from clear felling to replanting, that gives approx, 80 to 90% profit, have recently purchased 9.5ha plantation giving approx, 4500 euro grant, this was an accidental purchase as came as part of farm purchase, planted 9 years now, any idea what the potential income at clearfell would be? Don't have a forestry advisor, should I appoint one now or wait until first thinning, whenever that would be,

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 1:11pm

miamee wrote:

What made you choose forestry as a career? Was it something you've always loved/wanted to do or something you kinda ended up in?

I have forestry myself so I said I better educate myself in the area and have a love for it

your days are varied you could be out walking forests for a couple of days then in the office doing paperwork for the rest a healthy mix

marvin80 · 22-08-2018 1:13pm

Do you think there's an issue in Ireland where outside buyers are buying land and planting non-native species to offset their carbon emissions?

Should rules be brought in to restrict these opportunistic investors?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/minister-urged-to-take-heat-out-of-forestry-issue-in-leitrim-1.2719694

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/move-into-forestry-casting-a-shadow-across-leitrim-1.2709073

_Brian · 22-08-2018 1:17pm

I’ve seen a number of forest clear fell where no forestry was replanted, the land is now left go wild.
Who’s responsible for chasing the replanting of this land.

One plot was bought by an investor, timber cleared and they took all proceeds and moved on.

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 1:22pm

marvin80 wrote:

Do you think there's an issue in Ireland where outside buyers are buying land and planting non-native species to offset their carbon emissions?

the carbon credits are used by the government to alleviate the fines that we are receiving for not meeting our climate change targets it doesn't belong to any individual or company

marvin80 wrote:

Should rules be brought in to restrict these opportunistic investors?

generally if land is bought for forestry it is marginal land and not suited to high output farming that is why it is able to be bought for forestry (as the price that is offered for forestry ground is below that of agricultural land in most parts of the country

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 1:24pm

_Brian wrote:

Iâ€™ve seen a number of forest clear fell where no forestry was replanted, the land is now left go wild. Whoâ€™s responsible for chasing the replanting of this land.

Please contact the Forest service in Johnstown Castle to report this, give them the townland and nearest village

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-08-2018 1:49pm

Is it true Ireland has the lowest broadleaf tree coverage in all of Europe?

What's you view/solution to this shocking statistic?
Have also heard that typical commercial trees (spruce) aren't as environmentally friendly (biodiversity rich) as many other trees.

Reati · 22-08-2018 1:59pm

Nayeli Unimportant Dot wrote: »

Is it true Ireland has the lowest broadleaf tree coverage in all of Europe?

What's you view/solution to this shocking statistic?

See my early question. A drive down the N11 shows you all you need to see of the level of coverage!

freshpopcorn · 22-08-2018 2:09pm

Have you ever found anything unusual or came across strange activity in the forests you manage?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 2:30pm

freshpopcorn wrote:

Have you ever found anything unusual or came across strange activity in the forests you manage?

I once stumbled upon a young couple getting familiar with each other

I also walked out of a wood when there was a group of lads about to start shooting at pheasants which were in front of me !

Fluppen · 22-08-2018 2:31pm

I have a 98 acre farm and often wonder if it would be possible to plant a narrow strip of mixed forestry, some native, some commercial around the boundaries of the land as a buffer to the increasing noise and visual pollution caused by the building of new homes in the area. Would forestry companies be willing to establish and manage a long narrow winding strip stretching over quite a number of small fields or would it be too expensive and impractical to manage within the existing establishment, fencing and roadway grants?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 2:33pm

Nayeli Unimportant Dot wrote:

Is it true Ireland has the lowest broadleaf tree coverage in all of Europe?

Ireland has one of the lowest level of forest land in Europe, the department have taken steps to increase the level of Broadleaf planting, I think 20 odd % of afforested land is Broadleaf in ireland and we need to bring that figure up to 30%

4068ac1elhodqr · 22-08-2018 2:34pm

Reati wrote: »

See my early question. A drive down the N11 shows you all you need to see of the level of coverage!

Question was for the Forest Man, no idea where the N11 is and unlikely to visit. But the EU reckons Ireland has the lowest forest cover in Europe (aside from small random islands like cyprus or where ever).

EU says it's 11%, average is around 30-40% wooded. And there is some suggestion commerical planting is the least environmentally diverse.

punisher5112 · 22-08-2018 2:36pm

Nayeli Unimportant Dot wrote: »

Question was for the Forest Man, no idea where the N11 is and unlikely to visit. But the EU reckons Ireland has the lowest forest cover in Europe (aside from small random islands like cyprus or where ever).

EU says it's 11%, average is around 30-40% wooded. And there is some suggestion commerical planting is the least environmentally diverse.

N11 is wicklow

BarryD2 · 22-08-2018 2:37pm

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA wrote: »

because the growth rates for comercial timber in ireland is much better than in Europe, in fact the fastest growing forests in Europe are in ireland

Can you elaborate on that? How does growth rate explain the different types of management that are apparent.

It seems that here and generally speaking, a plantation is viewed like a conventional 'farmers crop' - you plant, weed, thin and then harvest the lot when it's mature.

Whereas on the continent, plantations seem to be more likely managed as forests, with selective thinning and clear felling. It seems to be a different attitude & culture.

We have a windier country and I can appreciate the issue of wind throw if you cut out a portion of a plantation. But is this not down to the likes of forest planners and managers. In how you design and make up a scheme of planting? Surely instead of planting 50,000 spruce or whatever, you could mix things up more and have species with different growth rates and at different stages of development, with varying resistance to wind etc.

I ask because in my experience, one big reservation that the public have about commercial plantations is the devastation to the landscape left behind when a large area is just cleared.

murpho999 · 22-08-2018 2:37pm

Can you see the wood for the trees?

I'm a Forest Manager, AMA · 22-08-2018 2:39pm

Nayeli Unimportant Dot wrote:

Have also heard that typical commercial trees (spruce) aren't as environmentally friendly (biodiversity rich) as many other trees.

there is certainly a very rich ecological habitat from what I have seen when walking them anyway.

Now Ye're Talking - to a forest manager

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