Ahern in bid to beat telecoms threat to economy

dahamsta · 19-01-2002 5:04pm #1

http://www.unison.ie/stories.php3?ca=9&si=673936&issue_id=6744

TAOISEACH Bertie Ahern has warned senior civil servants that Ireland could slip into the second rank of international economies if it does not speed up the opening of advanced telecommunications around the country.

Mr Ahern said Ireland is lagging behind other countries in its development of broadband telecoms connections countrywide.

And he issued a stark warning that the official strategy so far has "not taken us where we want to be".

A hard hitting memo seen by the Irish Independent, outlines how Mr Ahern, together with Public Enterprise Minister Mary O'Rourke, plans to make this issue a key priority in the future.

The position paper describes the problems that have beset Ireland's broadband strategy. It underlines that not enough town and cities around the country are connected to broadband, which provides high speed telecommunications cables enabling better phone, internet and e-commerce services.

Signalling a review of official strategy on the vital area, Mr Ahern warns that other countries are moving ahead of us in this area, with Ireland coming in 25th out of 30 OECD countries in a recent survey on access to broadband. EU candidate countries like Hungary and the Czech Republic scored higher.

The paper says that "if we get this right we can be in the top three or four information led economies for the next decade.

"Conversely, if we do not achieve local connectivity we will slip into the second rank of economies," the paper warned.

The unpublished document describes how Mr Ahern has been "banging heads together between the public and private sectors on this issue."

He has begun an interdepartmental review of strategy to ensure the delivery of a telecoms broadband infrastructure nationwide.

The paper describes a number of central points to the Government's current thinking.

It says: "We have international connectivity, and we have a developing national and regional backbone. We now need to go to the next step and connect locally.

"The market has not delivered a local connectivity. In a changed environment, a new road map is needed," the note urged.

Richard Curran Business Editor

nahdoic · 19-01-2002 5:17pm

wow ... this is great. So much emphasis from the government on developing real broadband in the country for use by normal people and businesses. *finally* the message is getting through

you can really sense things speeding up now in general

... greater degree of urgency from the government. I guess it could be just because an election is coming up though ... either way it's still great.

ando · 19-01-2002 5:57pm

Its funny to see the government get off their arses and actually do something when there's some pressure on them. EG, last week Microsoft Ireland slagged off the government about the state of the irish broadband network... 1 week later and we're getting reports left right and centre about the government getting into action

ando · 19-01-2002 6:44pm

Mr Ahern warns that other countries are moving ahead of us in this area, with Ireland coming in 25th out of 30 OECD countries in a recent survey

just noticed, but Ireland actually came 27th, not 25th ?

MarcusGarvey · 19-01-2002 7:13pm

Infacta , gift.

(Today FM reference )

Fergus · 19-01-2002 7:22pm

just noticed, but Ireland actually came 27th, not 25th ?

27th out of 30. See page 8 of OECD report here

Coyote · 19-01-2002 7:35pm

You think that is funney
I was in west of China and they had ADSL there 5 months ago
Ireland is a joke and all this is a press release from the goverment to try and save face over what microsoft said last week. works out very nice for them they get to say whey want and what makes them look good but it's not a real statemt from the goverment, so they are not see to be saying Irelands net comms sucks to the world

Moriarty · 19-01-2002 7:43pm

Im shocked, amazed and pleasently surprised :eek: It seems like they finally listened to us

First time ive seen any government document specifially mention the lack of local access to the backbone in Ireland. I dont think that can be over-emphasised. It looks like they have finally realised what one of the major problems is.

What we need now is a follow up on this. Perhaps the committe should try to organise another meeting with Mary O'Rourke, following the news of the comm's bill being pushed forward, and now this.

Fergus · 19-01-2002 7:47pm

I have to say I do view it with a bit of skepticism. The stuff in the memo sounds terribly similar to what the govt's own advisory committee pointed out to them in 1998. And O'Rourke has been going on about increasing the power of the regulator (Comms Bill) for over two and half years.

Other parties take note.

NeilF · 19-01-2002 7:49pm

The unpublished document describes how Mr Ahern has been "banging heads together between the public and private sectors on this issue."

Surely Mr Harran?

pete · 19-01-2002 8:05pm

Originally posted by Moriarty

First time ive seen any government document specifially mention the lack of local access to the backbone in Ireland.

But what definition of "local access" is to apply?

Industrial parks? Commercial? Residential?

Moriarty · 19-01-2002 8:48pm

Originally posted by pete
But what definition of "local access" is to apply?
Industrial parks? Commercial? Residential?

If i read it right..

It underlines that not enough town and cities around the country are connected to broadband, which provides high speed telecommunications cables enabling better phone, internet and e-commerce services

Which implies the use of xDSL and Cable Modems. Possibly.

[Bugger, I'm always doing that. Sorry Moriarty. - adam]

dahamsta · 19-01-2002 8:58pm

What Fergus said.

I'm not going to get into the content of the article, because questioning the Taoiseach and the Independent's motives in this matter would be self-defeating. However we do need to make our position on the situation clear to the Department of the Taoiseach and everyone else involved. As I've said time and time again, there is a fundamenal mistunderstanding inside the Government of the needs and wants of it's citizens, and the businesses the Government should be supporting. This article, and the memo is purports to represent, doesn't seem to demonstrate that they have corrected this misunderstanding.

adam

dahamsta · 19-01-2002 9:02pm

Which implies the use of xDSL and Cable Modems. Possibly.

My point exactly. It's very likely that the Taoiseach is referring to leased lines, which will not change the current situation for small businesses and consumers one jot. Note that there is nothing remotely near addressing the FRIACO problem in this article either.

adam

Moriarty · 19-01-2002 9:08pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
My point exactly. It's very likely that the Taoiseach is referring to leased lines, which will not change the current situation for small businesses and consumers one jot. Note that there is nothing remotely near addressing the FRIACO problem in this article either.
adam

Which could very possibly be true. Comfirmation really needs to be looked for regarding this, although if its a leak its unlikely anyone will comment. Perhaps we should look for a meeting with the taoiseach himself. The gov seem to be intrested in getting things moving, but perhaps they just dont understand / are not being told what needs doing. It may be a matter of informing them exactly what is needed, eg friaco, full unbundling under competitive pricing etc.

Boston · 19-01-2002 9:10pm

still wont make me vote for him. its bull.

Btw see that service charges went up 8%, that the likes of eircom and ntl, along with others.

cants wait till i see nexts years, when the prise of broadband is included

dahamsta · 19-01-2002 9:21pm

still wont make me vote for him.

LOL. Same here. Although I'm not particularly keen on their party leader, I think FG would be much more progressive on comms. Ivan Yates' policy document from 2000 covers pretty much everything we're concerned with. If they implemented those policies - it's not a given they would have, of course - we wouldn't be in the position we find ourselves in now. The Taoiseach wouldn't need to be "ticking off" anyone.

DISCLAIMER: This is not the official view of IrelandOffline, just a personal comment.

adam

Boston · 19-01-2002 9:25pm

hmm, look at it this way, they sold eircom

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 19-01-2002 10:42pm

http://act.iol.ie

Jees I thought I was about to visit Andrew Conlan Trant's homepage. Bit dissappointed actually:( I was hoping there would be a guestbook.....heeehheeeee;)

saik · 20-01-2002 1:17am

quote: Mr Ahern said Ireland is lagging

bertie is in with the online gaming massev

imo: this is all pre election bull****e

Dustaz · 20-01-2002 6:36am

Originally posted by saik
quote: Mr Ahern said Ireland is lagging

bertie is in with the online gaming massev

GG

One thing is for sure, whether this is pre-election bull**** or not, at least its pre-election bull**** that interests us. I dont remember this sort of stuff coming up before the last election.

Stonemason · 20-01-2002 8:22am

Even if it is bull at least it shows there are enough people like us (internet user that vote)For them to try and get us on their side.Which is a good sign.

Stone

pencil · 20-01-2002 2:54pm

I like the sound of the 'leak' but I've been waiting for an always on connection since 1998, so like you all, I've heard it all before!

I'm in Mr. Ahern's constituency (D7) and I'm hoping he comes canvassing, he will be told that the 2 votes in my house will NOT be going his way if I still do not have a broadband connection on the date of the election.

I know that Ireland offline does not want to associate itself with an particular party but:

Why not have a count (poll on this forum?) to see how many votes will be connected to this issue? - this could then be 'leaked' to the government & media.

OT: (Will also have something to say about the new Refuse tax - will gladly pay it if it pays for a 'true' recycling scheme (like Galway Citys), paying an for the privilege of using wheelie bins does not cut it!)

nahdoic · 20-01-2002 3:27pm

if i have a broadband or flat rate connection before the election FF has my vote for definite.

Fergus · 20-01-2002 3:27pm

Originally posted by pencil
Why not have a count (poll on this forum?) to see how many votes will be connected to this issue?

Umm.. even more effectively.. how many votes in constituencies where Sinn Fein are contenders.

Bard · 20-01-2002 4:00pm

Originally posted by nahdoic
if i have a broadband or flat rate connection before the election FF has my vote for definite.

AGREED... assuming that FF/the Gov't have been instrumental in bringing such a situation about, of course...

Moriarty · 20-01-2002 5:04pm

Originally posted by Fergus
Umm.. even more effectively.. how many votes in constituencies where Sinn Fein are contenders.

Id sooner vote to outlaw the net than to place my vote for sinn fein. If they had their way, the country would be in even more of a shambles than it is at present.

Boston · 20-01-2002 5:15pm

i thought about voting sinn fein, and i think i will, just to piss of bertie, same reason i voted no to nice

dahamsta · 20-01-2002 5:20pm

No disrespect folks, but let's not go too far down the "my party is better/worse than yours" path. Pledge your vote to whoever delivers, sure, discuss the pros and cons when it comes to communications issues, oh yeah, but try and stay on-topic please.

Thanks,
adam

o_donnel_abu · 20-01-2002 7:35pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
No disrespect folks, but let's not go too far down the "my party is better/worse than yours" path.

Agree entirely.

Alignment with any one party would destroy IOFFL quicker than anything else I can think of.

What we have to do is get all the parties interested in this.

Martin

Boston · 20-01-2002 7:39pm

Including socialist youth ha

Mountjoy Mugger · 20-01-2002 8:20pm

Fwiw, I don't see any of the parties keeping such a pre-election promise - it's the same BS every time - just a different subject this time from Bertie.

Manic · 20-01-2002 11:29pm

Why not sumbit our own candidate for the Election ? We have seen what Bard / Nial ? - Adam - Martin - Elana to name but a few can and have done for us all. So why not put our own candidate forward ? Would it be ok if i made this a New Topic or should i just leave it be ? I know that I for 1 would vote for any of the people that are involved in IOFFL. What do ye think ?

SkepticOne · 21-01-2002 12:04am

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
Fwiw, I don't see any of the parties keeping such a pre-election promise - it's the same BS every time - just a different subject this time from Bertie.

If the Communications Bill proceeds before the election, we'll know they are beginning to take these issues seriously. There may be some hope then.

Stonemason · 21-01-2002 12:28am

I dont know if the irish system is the same as in england but but anyone can run in an election over there if you hand over something like £1000 to register their party (monster raving loony party being one of these ?)Though i dont think for one minute that whoever would run for us would win,it would get alot of press

.It may even get one our people on a debate program up against berti himselt on national TV That id like to see

Stone

Boston · 21-01-2002 12:58am

yea its the same thing here, except that it would be 1000 per td we put forward. that or somethign like 5,000 signatures.

actually i think this should be ioffl next big thing, to try and get someone elected to the dail.

personal id send off 20 euro and im sure alot more would to, all we need would be 50 other members of the 1000. and we would have the 1000 euro.

I really think this coudl be the next big think to rally behind. nothing like a nice rally. i sure we would get alot of board support for the signatures.

probably should try someone from north dublin, were most of our support seems to be centred, somebody that experienced with banking, somebody experienced with unline community, somebody thats been with ioffl fro mteh start.

yes lets get devore elected. id vote for him, and id get my family to vote for him. probably not a showballs change in hell of getting elected, but imagine the press if we even got 1% of the vote. it would be huge. hell imagine if we won.

ill write up somethign tomorrow and put it to the board.
the general election is just to important not to try and milk.

first things first, find out the exat requiremnts to become a TD.

i thin kafew people, might start to take notice if we actually did this, win loose or draw. and i know devore woudl be interested as hes said so before.

Manic · 21-01-2002 2:18am

I went ahead and made my suggestion a seporate post on the Boards. I apologise for doing that i didnt realise it might become a troll. I asked for it to be removed also. But i still say that we should have someone from IOFFL put forward as a candidate. I have faith in IOFFL and im sure there are many more people here that think like i do and would only be too willing to support them. Please think about it, its like what Boston said:

yes lets get devore elected. id vote for him, and id get my family to vote for him. probably not a showballs change in hell of getting elected, but imagine the press if we even got 1% of the vote. it would be huge. hell imagine if we won.

I totally agree with him. Why not give it a try ?

m1ke · 21-01-2002 3:21am

i'm northside central, any IOFL candidate would get my vote, and probably those of my family too.

Dustaz · 21-01-2002 3:48am

Theres always loads of 'novelty' candidates in each election, They rarely get much press attention.
You only notice the MRLP cos well, its hard not to notice them:)
Aiden Walsh ran for a seat a few years ago (which was pretty funny:) ), hes a complete nutter and didnt really get much attention.
unless you can get a lucky break and really catch the publics imagination its waste of money tbh:/

Stonemason · 21-01-2002 4:18am

I think the chances of getting noticed is quite high simply because berti himself is setting this up to be an issue in the next election.As we all know even 2FM ran a bit about the blackout the good work irelandoffline is doing.Not only that most of these looneys that run for the fun of it dont have any real message were as we do.Personaly id be happy to chip in €20 jeez thats not even 2 hours in the pub(well worth the gamble) as far as i can see the only problem would be getting someone who looks good in a suit.:D

Stone

SkepticOne · 21-01-2002 10:48am

Further comment in today's Indo on Bertie's memo.

This is saying that the private sector has not provided the services that individual and corporate customers want and need.

Surely this has to do with the protection of monopolies in the field of telecommunications.

Competitors simply cannot get a look in. ALTO, the group which represents telecommunications operators, has been saying this for over two years.

The regulator could therefore be blamed for not taking a more aggressive stance.

But the regulator can point to the inadequacies in legislation which prevent her from pushing too hard for example, the ridiculous piece of legislation which meant the most she could fine a company for breaches of agreements was £5,000. Thankfully, that is being changed.

Mr Ahern's document refers to the need for a review of strategy and radical new proposals.

<Edit: "the ridiculous piece of legislation which meant the most she could fine a company for breaches of agreements was £5,000." Shouldn't this be £1,500?>

Boston · 21-01-2002 8:44pm

Its not weather we win or loose, afew people, might wise up to us, it would also shut those amoung us, up about us not doing anything..

Yurmasyurda · 23-01-2002 1:23am

The paper says that "if we get this right we can be in the top three or four information led economies for the next decade

We may also have to wait a decade before we, the consumers get any hint of adsl, me's all sad now

Yurma

Clinical Waste · 23-01-2002 1:31am

Thats probably (in Political language) meant to actually read by th end of the next decade. (which starts in 8 years.
So right on track then.

Moriarty · 23-01-2002 6:37pm

Originally posted by Stonemason
I dont know if the irish system is the same as in england but but anyone can run in an election over there if you hand over something like £1000 to register their party (monster raving loony party being one of these ?)Though i dont think for one minute that whoever would run for us would win,it would get alot of press .It may even get one our people on a debate program up against berti himselt on national TV That id like to see

Stone

I wouldnt be adverse to sending off €10/€20 if were going to do this

Manic · 23-01-2002 9:28pm

The Post.ie 16 Dec 2001

Former Eircom director Paul Mackay said the government will have to invest up to £1 billion over the next few years to upgrade the national telecommunications infrastructure, as its new owner, Valentia, is unlikely to make the necessary investment.

£1 Billion is a lot of money. Valentia wont do it and IMHO the Government wont too. So i wonder if they could give it to me instead

Mountjoy Mugger · 23-01-2002 9:40pm

Originally posted by Manic
The Post.ie 16 Dec 2001

£1 Billion is a lot of money. Valentia wont do it and IMHO the Government wont too. So i wonder if they could give it to me instead

I agree. Especially since the Government spent millions of our (tax payers') money over the years. However, as soon as Eircom went private - screw the lot of us. And now! - now we got the new shower wanting more hard earned tax payers' money being thrown in.

WTF do they think they're at?

NeilF · 23-01-2002 10:54pm

Originally posted by Manic
Former Eircom director Paul Mackay said the government will have to invest up to £1 billion over the next few years to upgrade the national telecommunications infrastructure, as its new owner, Valentia, is unlikely to make the necessary investment.

Oh, that's a priceless quote, Manic

One national telecommunications infrastructure, sold as seen. I'm sure the network was in a poor state before it was sold but we weren't selling a hi-tech communications network. It's exclusive ownership of the only local loop in Ireland. Valentia will have to find the money themselves if they want to extend their monopoly to other products.

If the government have money like that to spend and they want to spend it on telecoms they should be developing an alternative local loop in areas that do not already have other alternatives, such as cable.

adomixer · 23-01-2002 11:09pm

prob is BS, but let's look at the most glaring error. we 'might / will' fall behind other countries? MAN, we're so far behind already, before months of task forces and reports, we may never catch up, never mind be leaders, in the e-commerce etc. arena.

just like rte with their plans for digital tv, which they only recently dropped because of financial reasons. the more obvious problem was SKY had them beat years ago. why can this country never learn from others, but instead insist on starting at the bottom, ignoring so much information available from others.

jeeeeezzzzz.......

ADO

Irish_Ranger_IR · 24-01-2002 2:07pm

nothing is going to change,

Ahern in bid to beat telecoms threat to economy

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