Louis Theroux - Mothers on the Edge

LouD2016 · 14-05-2019 12:19pm #1

Anyone watch his latest documentary?

I found it so sad to watch but he handled the topic so well.

Is there centre's like that in Ireland? One thing that bothered me was the attitude of "oh you are still struggling, lets just up the meds".

The woman they followed that went home to 3 children was so medicated she could barely open her eyes in one part of it.

14-05-2019 12:20pm

when's the Fathers on the edge doc now???

Lillyfae · 14-05-2019 12:39pm

rusty cole wrote: »

when's the Fathers on the edge doc now???

Just F**K off. All capital letters. The attitude, in case anyone thinks I'm attacking the poster.

I really wanted to see this but missed it- hope I can catch it some time this week.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 2:03pm

rusty cole wrote: »

when's the Fathers on the edge doc now???

Ask the BBC.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 14-05-2019 2:18pm

I found it insane that they allowed the children be with the mother, when they could have been in a totally safe environment at home with the father.

LouD2016 · 14-05-2019 2:44pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

I found it insane that they allowed the children be with the mother, when they could have been in a totally safe environment at home with the father.

Yea true - but I guess it's to encourage them to bond with the babies and be supervised on how they are coping with them?

Feisar · 14-05-2019 3:03pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

I found it insane that they allowed the children be with the mother, when they could have been in a totally safe environment at home with the father.

My wife is pregnant, at one of the appointments there was a part that I wasn't in with her for. She was asked was she safe in her home, apparently standard a question. Fair enough I'm not the patient in their care however my unborn son is. Surely they should have asked me how she was coping, is she drinking or smoking.

vicwatson · 14-05-2019 3:13pm

rusty cole wrote: »

when's the Fathers on the edge doc now???

Postpartum Depression is not for men

Berserker · 14-05-2019 3:14pm

Have watched the first 20 mins or so of it and it's a difficult watch. Theroux really is exceptional when it comes to making these documentaries.

valoren · 14-05-2019 3:17pm

vicwatson wrote: »

Postpartum Depression is not for men

While post partum and post natal depression can and does affect men the focus of the Theroux documentary is on the effect on Mother's.

Wabbit Ears · 14-05-2019 3:19pm

vicwatson wrote: »

Postpartum Depression is not for men

true, also men cant feel emotions nor can they be abused, raped, or have deep bonds with their children.

eviltwin · 14-05-2019 3:22pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

I found it insane that they allowed the children be with the mother, when they could have been in a totally safe environment at home with the father.

Having the baby with them is part of the recovery process. It has clinical value. It's not some anti fathers conspiracy.

jam_mac_jam · 14-05-2019 3:22pm

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

true, also men cant feel emotions nor can they be abused, raped, or have deep bonds with their children.

Why don't you start another thread to argue about strawman things that were never said here or have nothing to do with the topic.

vicwatson · 14-05-2019 3:22pm

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

true, also men cant feel emotions nor can they be abused, raped, or have deep bonds with their children.

Don’t be silly, of course they can, but the documentary focused on postpartum depression which is not for men

McMurphy · 14-05-2019 3:32pm

The OPs Mother's on the Edge?

She must have found him more attractive than Bono I guess.

ozbackineire · 14-05-2019 3:35pm

Is this repeated anywhere? I meant to tape it but forgot

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 3:39pm

valoren wrote: »

While post partum and post natal depression can and does affect men the focus of the Theroux documentary is on the effect on Mother's.

I'm sure men can experience depression after the birth of their children but I don't think it's fair to label it as post partum or post natal. Those are conditions linked to hormones after giving birth and specifically refer to women. What men might go through is not the same thing. Women aren't even allowed to have their own birth related medical conditions now without it being all what about the men?

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 3:39pm

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

true, also men cant feel emotions nor can they be abused, raped, or have deep bonds with their children.

Yeah that's totally what they said and what everyone here agrees with.

It's extraordinary the way even when it comes to a very difficult issue faced by women, some will try and make it about men.

There are issues that are faced by men - and this thread isn't about them so start a separate thread on them.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 3:43pm

Feisar wrote: »

My wife is pregnant, at one of the appointments there was a part that I wasn't in with her for. She was asked was she safe in her home, apparently standard a question. Fair enough I'm not the patient in their care however my unborn son is. Surely they should have asked me how she was coping, is she drinking or smoking.

"Surely"? Wouldn't they ask her that as part of her general check-ups?

LouD2016 · 14-05-2019 3:51pm

Feisar wrote: »

My wife is pregnant, at one of the appointments there was a part that I wasn't in with her for. She was asked was she safe in her home, apparently standard a question. Fair enough I'm not the patient in their care however my unborn son is. Surely they should have asked me how she was coping, is she drinking or smoking.

It is standard and it's done to protect women who may be in a controlling relationship.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 3:57pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm sure men can experience depression after the birth of their children but I don't think it's fair to label it as post partum or post natal. Those are conditions linked to hormones after giving birth and specifically refer to women. What men might go through is not the same thing.

Exactly. Men do indeed go through a significant upheaval when their child is born - the exhaustion, anxiety/stress, depression because of all of the above and because of such a drastic change, and the woman goes through all of that plus the hormonal changes and breastfeeding.

People coming along and saying "what about men?" on a thread like this... wtf is wrong with them.

cian68 · 14-05-2019 4:02pm

I miss Louis Theroux doing lighthearted stuff. Give me him raising an eyebrow while a swinger talks about their orgy

jam_mac_jam · 14-05-2019 4:52pm

Feisar wrote: »

My wife is pregnant, at one of the appointments there was a part that I wasn't in with her for. She was asked was she safe in her home, apparently standard a question. Fair enough I'm not the patient in their care however my unborn son is. Surely they should have asked me how she was coping, is she drinking or smoking.

Maybe, as she is an adult they asked her directly if she was smoking or drinking, why would they ask you? You are not their patient.

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 5:15pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Maybe, as she is an adult they asked her directly if she was smoking or drinking, why would they ask you? You are not their patient.

Exactly. They test for smoking anyway as far as I know.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 14-05-2019 5:16pm

valoren wrote: »

While post partum and post natal depression can and does affect men the focus of the Theroux documentary is on the effect on Mother's.

I thought that PND was linked to the hormonal changes pregnancy brings.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 5:21pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Maybe, as she is an adult they asked her directly if she was smoking or drinking, why would they ask you? You are not their patient.

It's a bizarre post. "Why didn't they ask me if she drinks/smokes/is coping?" Wtf?

LETHAL LADY · 14-05-2019 6:02pm

While there's so many TV programmes on about giving birth (warts and all) it's great that a documentary like this was aired showing the reality of the mental health struggles that many women face following childbirth.

The amount of pressure that the first lady interviewed was putting on herself to be the perfect mother I found shocking. They all seemed like good mothers to me tbh.

I thought it was a positive that they were allowed keep their babies with them. I doubt recovery would be possible if you had very little contact with your baby during this time.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 14-05-2019 6:34pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Having the baby with them is part of the recovery process. It has clinical value. It's not some anti fathers conspiracy.

Its an unsafe environment for children, they are putting the kids at risk, would only take a second to do something to a child, no amount of supervision can stop that. It's in the child's best interest to be at home with the father or any other stable adult.

I wouldn't condone children being left with a father who had mental health problems either, no matter how helpful in their recovery

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 6:40pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

Its an unsafe environment for children, they are putting the kids at risk, would only take a second to do something to a child, no amount of supervision can stop that. It's in the child's best interest to be at home with the father or any other stable adult.

I wouldn't condone children being left with a father who had mental health problems either, no matter how helpful in their recovery

Pretty sure that women with post natal depression are not at any higher risk of harming their children than someone without it. I guess the doctors know that the benefits of a secure attachment forming as a newborn, far outweigh the low risk of harm. There is a condition called post partum psychosis where there would be a risk, but that is relatively rare and likely to result in intervention before anything happens.

14-05-2019 6:47pm

There was an especially interesting talk with the clinical psychologist Dr Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime yesterday. He was presenting an overview of the enormous field of medical evidence on the importance of stability and love in the first three years of a child's life with the emphasis on how this is affecting homeless children in Ireland today. It was a very, very disturbing listen - not least because every parent will be thinking about how they could have been better - and I got the strong impression that we are brewing up a storm when these kids grow up:

Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime: Homeless children

14-05-2019 6:59pm

double post

14-05-2019 7:00pm

Post partum literally means 'of a mother post birth'. Post partum depression is the depression of a mother, post birth.

Men do not get it, unless you're one of those few men who have babies. Something of a contradiction in terms to many.

I suppose you could lobby Theroux to make a documentary about that, since programmes about post partum depression as defined seem to upset a few.

eviltwin · 14-05-2019 7:04pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

Its an unsafe environment for children, they are putting the kids at risk, would only take a second to do something to a child, no amount of supervision can stop that. It's in the child's best interest to be at home with the father or any other stable adult.

I wouldn't condone children being left with a father who had mental health problems either, no matter how helpful in their recovery

What are you basing that on? Are you some kind of expert on this issue or do you think you know more than the clinical team caring for these patients?

14-05-2019 7:06pm

I think that poster is conflating post partum psychosis with post partum depression.

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 7:17pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There was an especially interesting talk with the clinical psychologist Dr Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime yesterday. He was presenting an overview of the enormous field of medical evidence on the importance of stability and love in the first three years of a child's life with the emphasis on how this is affecting homeless children in Ireland today. It was a very, very disturbing listen - not least because every parent will be thinking about how they could have been better - and I got the strong impression that we are brewing up a storm when these kids grow up:

Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime: Homeless children

Post partum depression is a very common condition. It does not prevent a mother from providing "stability and love", especially when being treated which it appears it was in the documentary being discussed. Dont you think that removing children from the care of their mothers causes a lot more problems? It's known that it does.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 14-05-2019 8:32pm

eviltwin wrote: »

What are you basing that on? Are you some kind of expert on this issue or do you think you know more than the clinical team caring for these patients?

I'm basing it on watching the show, one of the mother's went missing in an apparent suicide attempt. Others where in no fit state to mind anyone. They had serious mental health issues. Why should the children be put at risk like that? The childrens interest should come first. They all had a loving stable parent at home, who was in a far better position to offer the love and nurturing needed for the child

Feisar · 14-05-2019 8:55pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Maybe, as she is an adult they asked her directly if she was smoking or drinking, why would they ask you? You are not their patient.

Correct I'm not, however if she goes in with a cold/flu not pregnant they don't ask her does she feel safe. Why not?

LETHAL LADY · 14-05-2019 8:56pm

Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »

I'm basing it on watching the show, one of the mother's went missing in an apparent suicide attempt. Others where in no fit state to mind anyone. They had serious mental health issues. Why should the children be put at risk like that? The childrens interest should come first. They all had a loving stable parent at home, who was in a far better position to offer the love and nurturing needed for the child

That lady was supervised 24/7 and only left the facility after being allowed free time on her own in the grounds.

None of the women interviewed in the programme wanted to hurt their baby. Even the Spanish women with psychosis wanted to harm herself and not the child.

At the end of the documentary all but one were well on the way to recovery and none had hurt their baby, either at the facility or at home afterwards, so to be fair their treatment does seem to have worked.

Feisar · 14-05-2019 8:59pm

Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »

It's a bizarre post. "Why didn't they ask me if she drinks/smokes/is coping?" Wtf?

??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant we our child.

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 9:06pm

Feisar wrote: »

Correct I'm not, however if she goes in with a cold/flu not pregnant they don't ask her does she feel safe. Why not?

Probably because it is known that domestic abuse escalates and sometimes even first begins during pregnancy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/

Violence can begin or escalate in pregnancy and has significant consequences for the woman, fetus and child. Questioning pregnant women about the presence of violence and offering referral to a secondary agency can help to break the pattern of abuse.

And

12.9% of 481 women at antenatal booking assessment in Ireland gave a history of experiencing intimate partner abuse3

Studies that ask about violence more than once during detailed in-person interviews or ask later in pregnancy (during the third trimester) report higher prevalence rates, suggesting that disclosure rates may depend on trust in the questioner, and that pregnancy may lead to new or increased violence.9

The WHO recently published its findings from a large multi-national study of women and abuse.10 The prevalence of physical violence in pregnancy was reported by women at between 1–28% in 15 different countries. Between a quarter and a half of these women experienced direct trauma to the abdomen during pregnancy. Over 90% of the assailants were the biological father of the unborn child.

Now, I'm sure you'll agree that identifying at risk women and babies is more important than your hurt feelings over not being consulted on certain aspects of your partners health?

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 9:08pm

Feisar wrote: »

??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.

Fall_Guy · 14-05-2019 9:08pm

Feisar wrote: »

??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

OK, I'm not sure I'm taking you up right, so let me get it straight. You feel aggrieved that your partner, carrying your child, under the care of a maternity hospital, was asked if she was ever harmed by you or was in fear of you?

Or you feel aggrieved that you weren't asked if your partner was smoking or drinking when they could just ask her directly?

Or you feel aggrieved that you weren't asked if you were ever harmed by your partner?

Feisar · 14-05-2019 9:09pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Probably because it is known that domestic abuse escalates and sometimes even first begins during pregnancy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/

Always happy to learn, da fuq?

There's me helping as much as I can with fruit and veg intake and making chicken broths.

jam_mac_jam · 14-05-2019 9:27pm

Feisar wrote: »

??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

No, no you are not entitled to the same duty of care as your pregnant wife. She being pregnant and all.

Feisar · 14-05-2019 9:44pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, no you are not entitled to the same duty of care as your pregnant wife. She being pregnant and all.

She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 9:47pm

I only have brothers - I understand men not wanting their role in parenting to be forgotten/undermined, but crikey, what a thread to pick to make that point. And what a whiny way of going about it.

wiggle16 · 14-05-2019 9:50pm

Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »

Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.

I don't agree with doctors/nurses asking the pregnant woman's partner if she smokes or drinks or whatnot, obviously. They are there to provide care for her through her pregnancy, not police her. But myself I thought Feisar's wider point was interesting. I wasn't aware that questions about domestic abuse were a standard thing in antenatal care, and I'm glad to know it's there and happens.

However, I suppose as a parallel point, I don't think it would be objectionable for a doctor or nurse to ask the father-to-be if he has any concerns relating to the pregnancy. And I mean that in a very general way, not with a view towards "yes, she smokes 20 a day", more like "I feel stupid asking her this, but is XYZ normal during pregnancy?" - obviously he is not entitled to the same duty of care, not by any stretch of the imagination, he's not a patient. But he is involved, and I don't see the harm in that kind of inclusion.

Gimme A Pound · 14-05-2019 9:54pm

Feisar wrote: »

She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

And the whole being the one carrying the child thing.

I agree wiggle16 though.

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 9:54pm

Feisar wrote: »

She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

No, it's because as a pregnant woman she is at a higher risk of various things, including domestic violence and pregnancy complications that very well may be life threatening to her as well as her child. So the additional duty of care is very much for her as the person is who actually gestating a child

But go ahead and start a campaign for fathers to receive ante natal care if you want and to be asked to verify that their partner is being truthful when asked about various things. I'm sure that will go down well. Maybe demand a bed in hospital so you can spend time with your wife and new son too. Or a private room so your sleep isn't disturbed by crying babies after the hardship of you going through labour. Lol

KikiLaRue · 14-05-2019 9:55pm

Feisar wrote: »

She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

Yes, your child which she is carrying. On her own. She’s the one who’s body is changing radically, who’s hormones are all over the place. The baby will not come out of your vagina.

You are an equal parent but you are not an equal partner in the pregnancy.

Feisar · 14-05-2019 9:55pm

Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »

Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.

I'm not entitled to anything hell I'm just the sperm donor.

Asking her if sees smoking/drinking is the same as asking me if she's safe!

Louis Theroux - Mothers on the Edge

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