Funny/Unusual records

I thought this census record was funny: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003312648/

The father was a staunch nationalist. The mother... perhaps not so much?

On a more sobering note, the oldest son was executed by Tans in 1921.

I came across a record of a relative's death in America. It's definitely him but the strange thing is that his race is recorded as black. Do you think that it's an error in transcription or an error in recording? They'd hardly be using a term like 'black Irish' in an official document.

pinkypinky wrote: »

Hmm, I'd get the actual record rather than rely on the transcript. While it's very unlikely, it's not impossible he was black.

Yeah you're right. It's hard to make any judgement calls without seeing the actual record since it could be a simple error in transcription.

DunnoKidz wrote: »

I don't know about death records or if this even applies, but... on stateside census records, a few of my ancestors were listed anywhere from white, mulatto or black on different censuses. I questioned a genealogist, who suggested census takers (at the time) determined race through their own perception (if a farmers skin appeared darkened by the sun, etc), community assumption, or living/working circumstances, rather than asking a person's race directly. This article tends to corroborate the idea. Even present day census takers fail to properly ask racial identification questions, according to CNN............. But on a death record, I've no idea.

Thank you for the reply and links. That could be it. He was a retired farmer so he may have been weather-beaten giving him a darker complexion.

tabbey wrote: »

With an Irish surname that would imply white father + black mother.

Not in America, it wouldn't.

tabbey wrote: »

There is more to race than complexion; afro-hair for example.

I would say either a mistake, ticking the wrong box or a tick straddling two boxes, or else, he was the result of mixed race parentage. With an Irish surname that would imply white father + black mother. I still think an error is more likely.

Well I'm fairly certain that neither of his parents were black since he and both of his parents were born in Ireland. I descend from his mother's brother and I have very pale skin that doesn't tan, or burn actually. My grandmother and her siblings were pale too and Anne Greene would have been their grandaunt. Unless it was on the father's side but I know the people that descend from both of John Flynn's parents and they're not dark either.

Now some members of Patrick Flynn's and Anne Greene's descendants do have very dark curly hair so that could have come from the Flynn side who knows. Maybe that could have been why he was recorded as black.

I didn't realise it would be just ticking boxes so if that's the case, then more than likely the wrong box was ticked.

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Probably an error. RGM is correct above, an Irish surname could denote an Irish father e.g. a slave owner who recognised an illig. child which took the paternal name.

Definitely not in this case though since John and both parents were Irish and he was from Ireland.

Someone doodling on the memorial of deeds here http://bit.ly/2eSSjx5 wonder who Bill Snooks was?

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

A cure for rheumatism here . It does not state if it is to be used topically or orally, so be careful before you try it!

"Bill Snooks" used to be one of those names like "John Smith" or "Sean Citizen" who represented an ordinary, unremarkable person although Bill, for some reason, was usually an unremarkable person in a faintly ridiculous situation. He used to turn up occasionally in law textbooks where he would, e.g., suffer some injury or indignity in the street and the student was then invited to consider whether he could recover in nuisance, or he would leave his umbrella at his club and somebody else would take it and the possibility of actions for trover, detinue and conversion would be discussed at length. (The student who made the point that buying a new umbrella would be cheaper would receive a failing grade.)

But Bill turned up other than in law books. If a young gentleman in high spirits was arrested for being drunk and disorderly in London, and was brought up before the magistrates, if he wished to avoid being expelled from his Oxford or Cambridge college it was prudent to exercise a certain latitude when giving his name and address to the court, and "Bill Snooks" was one of the names occasionally employed in this context.

The baptism of a child of John Frost and Catherine Frieze

https://search.findmypast.ie/record?id=ire%2fprs%2fbap%2f4810153

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Can't access - no sub!

Here it is on the NLI site:
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000635018#page/63/mode/1up

Hi Mossy

Just to point out that the registers are freely accessible at https://registers.nli.ie/, but not searchable.

Findmypast, RootIreland, Ancestry have searchable access to the registers, with transcriptions - not all transcriptions reliable. If you find links to your ancestors you can check the image on NLI without having to register with any of the paid up sites.

The clergyman had a legal obligation to register the marriage, but may have felt that it was the limit of his duty, thus far and no more.

Remember in 1845 the RC heirarchy refused to co-operate with civil registration of marriages, on the grounds that matrimony was a sacrament and no business of the state.

this priest may have been from a religious order who previously had no experience of civil registration. His lift may not have reached the top floor, as one might say today.

In relation to the civil registration of marriages - I was up in Werburgh St a couple of years ago looking for the civil marriage of my 2nd great aunt (I had the church record). I was told that in one case a priest arrived in to the GRO with 40 years worth of records to be registered :eek:

Have not found the above civil marriage nor my great grandfather's marriage (same parish).

It did seem a bit far fetched. Surely some of those with unregistered births and marriages would've run into problems down the line when applying for passports / state benefits.