Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

Tilikum17 · 07-10-2018 1:13pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/293352305/2e938735db

Beef farmer that struggles with his conscience

Intersting to see two threads on the front page of the site over the last few days.

Farmers looking for alternatives/cutting back on suckler farming.

Tar.Aldarion · 07-10-2018 1:47pm

^^^ I think there is less money in it now, and I think that over time that more industrialised farming will just become more prevalent.

gozunda wrote: »

What is remarkable is that even after making the decision to give up cattle farming - Jay and his family were attacked for not being 'vegan' enough and inundated with social media bullying and criticism whilst choosing to be vegetarian.

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/823906/Countryfile-Adam-Henson-Matt-Baker

I wonder what pressure he was put under as a result of those attacks from vegans who criticised him for being a vegetarian ....

Yeah it's pretty sad if somebody is attacked like that, very counter productive. His wife mentioned that in the documentary, and that farmers do need more support.

gozunda · 07-10-2018 2:42pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

^^^ I think there is less money in it now, and I think that over time that more industrialised farming will just become more prevalent..

I honestly don't think that will be the main direction of family run farms in this country tbh.

I do see more specialisation in farming in the future and that the nature of supermarket and fashion led food supply will change. There is already huge criticism of pushing suppliers to produce foodstuffs at the lowest common denominator

Even horticultural producers have been pushed to the wall by aggresive purchasing policies

See:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34647454

20 tonnes of freshly dug parsnips consigned to the rubbish heap in a Norfolk farmyard - purely because they didn't look pretty enough ....
No wonder that, the Hammonds were talking - through barely suppressed tears - about jacking it all in.

Tilikum17 · 07-10-2018 7:38pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Diminion will be made free soon to stream

No matter how many times I see these types of films I’m shocked. Only half way through.

gozunda · 08-10-2018 10:25am

Tilikum17 wrote: »

No matter how many times I see these types of films I’m shocked. Only half way through.

My bad from your previous comment- I presumed you had seen it already no?

Its always worthwhile to keep in mind that such films are more often than not one sided. The director of this film and his previous film Lucent has already recieved criticism for his approach and methods used

Not all vegans are promoting his film work either
See:

https://veganpolice.com.au/truth-about-lucent/

Also

https://www.farmonline.com.au/story/3377952/activists-home-raided-for-farm-footage/

Tar.Aldarion · 11-10-2018 8:38pm

https://runningforgoodfilm.com/

From Executive Producer James Cromwell and award-winning director Keegan Kuhn (Cowspiracy, What The Health) comes RUNNING FOR GOOD, the feature-length sports documentary narrated by Rich Roll (Finding Ultra), following world record marathon runner Fiona Oakes in her attempt not only to set a new global record in endurance racing, but to compete in the “toughest footrace on earth,” the Marathon Des Sables, a 250km race through the Sahara Desert.
Fiona Oakes has made a name for herself as a unique endurance runner. She is the fastest woman in the world to run a marathon on all seven continents, and the north pole, in both cumulative and elapsed time. Fiona’s achievements are made even more astounding due to the fact that she was told at age 14 that she would never walk properly, let alone ever run. She would undergo more than 17 radical knee surgeries which ultimately led to having her entire right kneecap removed. The process was agonizing, the rehab worse, the records she’s gone on to set even more astounding.

With overcoming her own adversity, Fiona’s true drive to achieve incredible feats of speed and human endurance are motivated by a deep desire to raise awareness for the plight of animals. Her achievements help fund a 450+ animal sanctuary that she takes care of every day.

“I was deeply moved by this awe-inspiring story of how a woman has overcome a disability that would put most people in a wheelchair, to become a world record breaking ultra-marathon runner, fueled by a plant-based diet.”
— John Robbins, best-selling author

“Fiona is a truly remarkable athlete and human being. She has defied all odds to become a world record-breaking runner despite a horrific knee injury. Her sense of purpose is so strong that nothing can stop her. Yet at the same time she is one of the most humble and selfless people I have met.”

Free to stream until 14th Oct.

davidjtaylor · 12-10-2018 10:20am

Defo. looks like one to watch TA, thanks for the post.

davidjtaylor · 13-10-2018 9:46am

Tilikum17 wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/293352305/2e938735db

Beef farmer that struggles with his conscience

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That was really well shot and a great story. You can feel the pressure Jay was under and his wife was right that there needs to be more support for farmers instead of them being attacked. It must have been so difficult for him to change his whole life, everything he has known for his animals, not to mention potential from his friends and peers.

Well produced film, yes. I’d love to follow them up, see how they’re doing now. If anyone knows anything more about them, post it here. In the meantime I’ll try to search for something.

So much taxpayer cash is thrown at big ag. but little is done to support those who are concerned about wider issues. Money goes to money.

davidjtaylor · 13-10-2018 9:59am

A pdf of a VON magazine article about Bradley Nook Farm.

gozunda · 13-10-2018 10:25am

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Well produced film, yes. I’d love to follow them up, see how they’re doing now. If anyone knows anything more about them, post it here. In the meantime I’ll try to search for something.

So much taxpayer cash is thrown at big ag. but little is done to support those who are concerned about wider issues. Money goes to money.

Ah the promulgated myth of big ag. being applied to family farms. In Ireland there are approximately 139,860 family farms with an average size of 32.7 hectares per holding. Perhaps you are thinking of your experiences in the UK where there are approx 300,000 active farms with an average size of 57 hectares - with a sizeable number being owned by commercial operations.

It remains that in Ireland the majority of farms are family owned and run. Yes the EU provides subsidies towards food production and many other parts if the economy including transport, employment and national infrastructure. Is that 'money after money (sic).

Interestingly big ag. as you call it ' is significantly more representative of the large industrial corporations such as Danone etc which have a huge market share in the prodution of consumables such as plant based liquids eg Soya and Almond. Again I see little evidence of addressing the wider issues of these very real behemoths of real big ag. ....

jive · 13-10-2018 10:28am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Running for good

Free to stream until 14th Oct.

Cheers for this, was a really good documentary. Never heard of her before this but she’s some hardy yolk! Great attitude towards it all to e.g. it’s a luxury to be able to go off and bust yourself in the desert for 6 days.

Tilikum17 · 13-10-2018 2:31pm

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJCTIPWPNtw

gozunda · 13-10-2018 6:47pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJCTIPWPNtw

Lol that is indeed funny. Just 5 litres of water to produce one almond...

davidjtaylor · 14-10-2018 5:53pm

Running for Good is...very good. Endurance pursuits which could kill or seriously injure you have always seemed particularly pointless to me but at least Fiona Oakes has a purpose in doing them, beyond egotistical notions.

Where she's asked not to mention veganism for fear of upsetting sponsors is galling.

davidjtaylor · 17-10-2018 4:51pm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

No matter how many times I see these types of films I’m shocked. Only half way through.

I can't really watch them, I get too upset.

18-10-2018 1:44pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Running for Good is...very good. Endurance pursuits which could kill or seriously injure you have always seemed particularly pointless to me but at least Fiona Oakes has a purpose in doing them, beyond egotistical notions.

Where she's asked not to mention veganism for fear of upsetting sponsors is galling.

I thought it was borderline hilarious to bring someone on to a TV show and talk about a great achievement but not allow them to talk about why they did it.

I can remember reading an article on Welsh dairy farming a while back and farmers were frothing with anger that the meat and dairy industry were ‘allowing vegans to access media without fighting back’.

I found that article really funny too. Farmers complaining about the amount of celebrities influencing young people not to eat meat or dairy.

But they were furious that the meat and dairy industry were not doing enough to influence them to consume even more meat and dairy.

A long time ago I used to call humans ‘sheep’. This would be fairly common. A lot of people are referred to as ‘sheep’ when they are void of independent thought and just do what everyone else does.

Think I have to upgrade ‘sheep’ to ‘idiots’. It just makes more sense to me.

gozunda · 18-10-2018 4:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought it was borderline hilarious to bring someone on to a TV show and talk about a great achievement but not allow them to talk about why they did it.
I can remember reading an article on Welsh dairy farming a while back and farmers were frothing with anger that the meat and dairy industry were ‘allowing vegans to access media without fighting back’. I found that article really funny too. Farmers complaining about the amount of celebrities influencing young people not to eat meat or dairy. But they were furious that the meat and dairy industry were not doing enough to influence them to consume even more meat and dairy. A long time ago I used to call humans ‘sheep’. This would be fairly common. A lot of people are referred to as ‘sheep’ when they are void of independent thought and just do what everyone else does. Think I have to upgrade ‘sheep’ to ‘idiots’. It just makes more sense to me.

So you're annoyed at some Welsh people? I'm sure they'd be delighted to know you're calling them 'idiots'. Pot, kettle, black and all that.

davidjtaylor · 18-10-2018 7:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought it was borderline hilarious to bring someone on to a TV show and talk about a great achievement but not allow them to talk about why they did it.

I can remember reading an article on Welsh dairy farming a while back and farmers were frothing with anger that the meat and dairy industry were ‘allowing vegans to access media without fighting back’.

I found that article really funny too. Farmers complaining about the amount of celebrities influencing young people not to eat meat or dairy.

But they were furious that the meat and dairy industry were not doing enough to influence them to consume even more meat and dairy.

And what runs through their anger? Money, nothing else.

gozunda · 18-10-2018 8:40pm

davidjtaylor wrote: »

And what runs through their anger? Money, nothing else.

I think what you are doing there is projecting your own anger over a personal dislike of animal farming tbh.

Do you really believe that food whether plant or animal based is produced at no cost? That vegetable and fruit growers do not make a living from their endeavours? No? That those involved in animal farming should not?

David looking at it objectively- your comment above make no sense whatsover.

Tar.Aldarion · 11-02-2019 2:18am

Tilikum17 wrote: »

https://vimeo.com/293352305/2e938735db

Beef farmer that struggles with his conscience

This film won a BAFTA today.

davidjtaylor · 11-02-2019 3:00am

Great. It was a very well done film.

Unearthly · 11-02-2019 8:27am

Nice topic.

Haven't watched many documentaries as I find it too hard to see slaughterhouse stuff.

Waiting to watch Game Changers

Tar.Aldarion · 02-04-2019 2:44pm

That film that won the BAFTA is back online for free now: https://vimeo.com/293352305

BAFTA regulations meant it was not available for months while it was in contention.

Tar.Aldarion · 03-04-2019 6:49pm

Short documentary about people who go out to try and rescue animals after natural disasters:

https://vimeo.com/319977833

gozunda · 06-04-2019 2:46am

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Short documentary about people who go out to try and rescue animals after natural disasters:

https://vimeo.com/319977833

Interesting video. I think that may be the same one which Tilikum put up last month?

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057961074/1/#post109573430

TheFortField · 08-10-2019 9:45pm

I’m looking forward to watching The Game Changers when it’s launched on Netflix on October 16th.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.plantbasednews.org/.amp/culture/game-changers-launch-globally-netflix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpglxHTJVM

TheFortField · 16-10-2019 9:40pm

I watched The Game Changers on Netflix tonight. It was grand, not nearly as good as Forks Over Knives (IMO).

TheFortField · 19-10-2019 12:12am

The Game Changers movie website contains some very useful information for people interested in going plant based.

https://gamechangersmovie.com/food/making-it-easy/

gozunda · 19-10-2019 12:19am

TheFortField wrote: »

The Game Changers movie website contains some very useful information for people interested in going plant based.

https://gamechangersmovie.com/food/making-it-easy/

Again there are issues to be aware of that this film is aimed at plant food advocacy and much of it is based on misinformation

Good review here:

https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/

auspicious · 19-10-2019 12:54pm

Although the MH article doesn’t provide any references, it does quote two sources, including “Mike Roussell, Ph.D., author of The MetaShred Diet”. Ironically, but perhaps not surprisingly, Roussell is a paid spokesperson for the beef industry (11). I assume the author of the article was not aware of this connection.
https://medium.com/@drjamesloomis/my-beef-with-the-mens-health-review-of-the-game-changers-65826d389859

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ7DZ7Nt1go&t=14s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RGhu4hlt8&t=142s

gozunda · 19-10-2019 1:32pm

auspicious wrote: »

Although the MH article doesn’t provide any references, it does quote two sources, including “Mike Roussell, Ph.D., author of The MetaShred Diet”. Ironically, but perhaps not surprisingly, Roussell is a paid spokesperson for the beef industry (11). I assume the author of the article was not aware of this connection.
https://medium.com/@drjamesloomis/my-beef-with-the-mens-health-review-of-the-game-changers-65826d389859
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ7DZ7Nt1go&t=14s
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RGhu4hlt8&t=142s

Dr Loomis whom you quoted directly (you forgot the quotation mark's btw) interestingly was not only a cast member of the film 'The Game Changers' - which he is backing in that article, but he has also backed other controversial plant food advocacy films such as Forks over Knives. His own references include a number of highly questionable / outdated sources which don't stand up to the claims made.

With regards vested industry interests - this is very relevant

The films executive producers include Jackie Chan, Louie Psihoyos, and James Cameron and his wife Suzy Amis Cameron. James Cameron is an Academy Award winning filmmaker known for movies like The Titanic and Avatar.

What most people don’t know about this Oscar-winning producer and his wife, however, is that they’re also the founders of Verdiant Foods, an organic pea protein company.

But this isn’t just some dinky plant-based protein start-up. As a press release from 2017 states; “Cameron has the goal to become the largest organic pea protein fractionation facility in North America”. He’s also partnered with Ingredion, one of the leading global ingredient suppliers, racking up an investment of $140 million.So he definitely has no skin in the game, right?

But the plant-based bias doesn’t end there. The film interviews several healthcare and fitness professionals for insights into their expertise — with the caveat that they’re all selling the vegan lifestyle.

https://perfectketo.com/game-changers-movie-fact-check/

You may note - that article is presented by yet another medical professional. Take of that what you will.

And therein lies the problem - that many of these films present a storyline which does not stand up to even the most basic of scrutinies. Dig deeper and behind this film, we find big investors and backers of the plant food industry.

auspicious · 19-10-2019 3:40pm

"
You may note - that article is presented by yet another medical professional. Take of that what you will."

Dr. Anthony Gustin - Founder and CEO of Perfect Keto & Equip Foods, host of The Keto Answers Podcast.

https://www.equipfoods.com/collections/supplements

gozunda · 19-10-2019 4:29pm

auspicious wrote: »

"You may note - that article is presented by yet another medical professional. Take of that what you will."Dr. Anthony Gustin - Founder and CEO of Perfect Keto & Equip Foods, host of The Keto Answers Podcast https://www.equipfoods.com/collections/supplements

Indeed. And there you've missed the point. The medical professional you referenced in your previous comment has vested interests in these Hollywood type productions. In the US many medical professionals like Loomis make money from such promotions though consultancy to the rich and famous and other business interests as detailed above.

The rebuke you quoted written by Dr Loomis makes hay out of the fact that the MHs reviews 'quotes' some who allegedly has links to the beef industry. But the same Dr Loomis fails to mention that the making of the Film itself was backed by founders of Verdiant Foods, a plant food company with a financial interest in promoting plant food sales.

Again in favour of the MH review - at least they removed Dr Roussell (Ph.D) quote once they became aware of the issue. You must have missed that. See Editors note
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a29067926/the-game-changers-movie-fact-check/

Tbh depending on Hollywood type productions for dietary guidance is at best extremly dodgy.

auspicious · 19-10-2019 5:40pm

Missed the point no. Just pointing out those naysayers of The Game Changers are meat advocates i.e. biased.
The movie is based on scientific facts - objective peer reviewed science.
Of course since it's espousing a plant-based diet it's sponsored by a plant-based company. You wouldn't find a movie espousing atheism sponsored by the Catholic Church.

gozunda · 19-10-2019 6:17pm

auspicious wrote: »

Missed the point no. Just pointing out those naysayers of The Game Changers are meat advocates i.e. biased.The movie is based on scientific facts - objective peer reviewed science.
Of course since it's espousing a plant-based diet it's sponsored by a plant-based company. You wouldn't find a movie espousing atheism sponsored by the Catholic Church.

But you do miss the point. The review of the Film by Mens Health included a single 'quote ' from someone who (allegedly) works in the beef industry. That does not make MH 'meat advocates' btw. To back that up - they acknowledged the criticism and removed the quote. Check the editors note for yourself! The article even points out that MH supports veganism and publishers pro vegan lifestyle articles!

But to put it plainly - one of the main issues is simply that- the movie is a movie - produced by Holywood actors / directors and backed by wealthy commercial plant food investment interests ie a biased film. It is also evident that much of the 'science' is not presented in a balanced way and uses a bunch of Observational studies touting small effects which are known to cause a high risk of error and selection bias.

Interesting though that you think it ok for the vested commercial interests in the plant food industy to create and push this film - yet call those who used a single quote (which was removed btw) 'naysayers'and 'meat advocates' and dont see the inherent bias! Odd that no?

jh79 · 19-10-2019 6:53pm

auspicious wrote: »

Missed the point no. Just pointing out those naysayers of The Game Changers are meat advocates i.e. biased.
The movie is based on scientific facts - objective peer reviewed science.
Of course since it's espousing a plant-based diet it's sponsored by a plant-based company. You wouldn't find a movie espousing atheism sponsored by the Catholic Church.

The movie is an interpretation of scientific evidence, it is not presenting "scientific facts".

The movie producers havn't produced any new evidence and there hasn't been any new evidence published that shows wholly plant based diet is better than a balanced diet with meat and dairy.

Just some promotional video to help James Cameron's new business venture

auspicious · 19-10-2019 7:20pm

jh79 wrote: »

The movie is an interpretation of scientific evidence, it is not presenting "scientific facts".

The movie producers havn't produced any new evidence and there hasn't been any new evidence published that shows wholly plant based diet us better than a balanced diet with neat and dairy.

Just some promotional video to help James Cameron's new business venture

I accept the word evidence is more satisfactory than facts.

jh79 · 19-10-2019 7:42pm

auspicious wrote: »

I accept the word evidence is more satisfactory than facts.

So is there any new scientifc evidence in the movie? What evidence does it have different than Forks Over Knives?

auspicious · 19-10-2019 7:58pm

I wouldn't know. I've never seen forks over knives.
I was contesting the fact that the 'good review' from Men's Health offered by gozunda was biased. The article is by Paul Kita whom has two meat based books published. MH has since backtracked on a couple of issues so it's a non-starter.

gozunda · 19-10-2019 8:57pm

auspicious wrote: »

I wouldn't know. I've never seen forks over knives.
I was contesting the fact that the 'good review' from Men's Health offered by gozunda was biased. The article is by Paul Kita whom has two meat based books published. MH has since backtracked on a couple of issues so it's a non-starter.

I believe what you mean is that you think the review was 'biased' - not that you are 'contesting' it. But no worries I get what you are saying.

I do like the rather hilarious take on the author. The article is written by Paul Kita who has written two regular Cookbooks, which like most regular cookbooks contain a range of recipes and are not 'meat based books' lol.

Heres a review of one of them just for reference!

https://i.imgflip.com/3ds6am.jpg

Anyhow back to the article! Whilst MH removed the controversial quote from Dr Roussell (PhD) - this is the present state of play as MH has not 'backtracked' This is what the editor states.

The debate continues! James Loomis, M.D., former team physician for the St. Louis Rams and St. Louis Cardinals, who appears in The Game Changers, has written a rebuttal to this piece. We respect Loomis’ opinion, but we stand by our reporting and analysis of the film.

auspicious · 19-10-2019 9:22pm

I worded it quite fine thank-you.
As ever you're typically disingenuous.
No need for you to have the last word. I'm out.

gozunda · 19-10-2019 9:32pm

auspicious wrote: »

I worded it quite fine thank-you. As ever you're typically disingenuous. No need for you to have the last word. I'm out.

Hmmm - you say I'm 'disingenuous' and yet bizarrely claim a couple of regular cookbooks as being 'meat based books'. Last word or no yup maybe best give it a break. Bye .

auspicious · 19-10-2019 10:26pm

Something in the back of my mind told me to reread.
So I worded that part incorrectly and you were not disingenuous, on this occasion.
Fair enough.

loveisdivine · 22-10-2019 4:30pm

We really enjoyed Game Changers. It really shows that there's not just one way of being super fit and healthy, it doesn't have to be tonnes of animal protein and whey etc.

My dad ditched dairy a few months ago and lost a good bit of weight, lower cholesterol etc and has basically been feeling great from it. So I recommended this doc as he was still adamant that animal protein was superior to plant and low and behold he emailed immediately after watching to say he's going meat free! I know he'll never be fully vegan, but just ditching the meat and dairy is so huge for him.

It's purely health based for him, but I'm so pleased

TheFortField · 09-12-2019 9:15pm

I’m just wondering if any of the regulars here watched or listened to Joe Rogan’s “Game Changers” debate and if you did... what did you think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0zgNY_kqlI

I am not a fan of Chris Kresser, I’ve listened to some of his previous contributions to the Joe Rogan podcast and wasn’t impressed. However, I ended up feeling sorry for him. James Wilks destroyed him during the (very one-sided debate) and Rogan who has been very critical of vegan diets abandoned Kresser and joined Team Wilks.

I can understand that James Wilks is very proud of his documentary and he has the right to defend its content but I felt he was overly aggressive and rude. In the end I felt Kresser was bullied and humiliated. I found the programme somewhat disturbing. I am very passionate about about the whole food plant based diet (it has completely transformed my life for the better) but I feel James will turn people off.

I would love if Joe Rogan invited Dr Greger on the show, unlike Wilks and Kressler he is actually qualified to speak about nutrition.

Unearthly · 09-12-2019 9:27pm

Chris talked crap about his documentary for about 4 hours and was rightfully called out on it.

He needed to be firm and aggressive or it would have ended up a 2 v 1 bashing. Joel kahn has a very nice friendly demeanor and Chris + Joe took advantage of that but not with James Wilks

TheFortField · 09-12-2019 9:50pm

I agree that Chris (& Rogan) were allowed to talk crap about plant based diets for far too long and it was time to challenge them. However, James played the man and not the ball. He seemed to thoroughly enjoy humiliating Chris. I think his behaviour was dickish.

jh79 · 09-12-2019 10:38pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I would love if Joe Rogan invited Dr Greger on the show, unlike Wilks and Kressler he is actually qualified to speak about nutrition.

This Dr Greger?

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/

KSU · 12-12-2019 1:47pm

TheFortField wrote: »

I’m just wondering if any of the regulars here watched or listened to Joe Rogan’s “Game Changers” debate and if you did... what did you think of it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0zgNY_kqlI

I am not a fan of Chris Kresser, I’ve listened to some of his previous contributions to the Joe Rogan podcast and wasn’t impressed. However, I ended up feeling sorry for him. James Wilks destroyed him during the (very one-sided debate) and Rogan who has been very critical of vegan diets abandoned Kresser and joined Team Wilks.

I can understand that James Wilks is very proud of his documentary and he has the right to defend its content but I felt he was overly aggressive and rude. In the end I felt Kresser was bullied and humiliated. I found the programme somewhat disturbing. I am very passionate about about the whole food plant based diet (it has completely transformed my life for the better) but I feel James will turn people off.

I would love if Joe Rogan invited Dr Greger on the show, unlike Wilks and Kressler he is actually qualified to speak about nutrition.

Do you not see the glaring issue with this debate, he continually side stepped his issue with meat and never answered the question.

Kresser definitely cocked up but Wilks simply aggressively talking him down with the Forest Plots statement even when he was making valid points.

Looking for documentaries like Forks Over Knives.

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