Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

Hermy · 24-08-2019 11:12am

That's great - thanks pedro!

pedroeibar1 · 24-08-2019 1:38pm

Dispensatione ab imp.o [impedimento] dir.e [dirimente?] in secundo gradu consanguinitatis a Revd. Dom.o Dowd[?] Archipiscus obtenata.
Translates as ‘Dispensation from a direment impediment in second grade of blood by Rev. Lord Dowd Archbishop having been obtained.

There are two types of impediment, prohibitive and diriment. The latter is more serious and requires dispensation from the Archbishop. That it went that high probably also points to the reason why the Banns were dispensed with. I’m unsure of the name – it looks like ‘Dowd’ – a bit of Googling should rectify that.

Hermy · 25-08-2019 12:11am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Dispensatione ab imp.o [impedimento] dir.e [dirimente?] in secundo gradu consanguinitatis a Revd. Dom.o Dowd[?] Archipiscus obtenata.
Translates as ‘Dispensation from a direment impediment in second grade of blood by Rev. Lord Dowd Archbishop having been obtained.

There are two types of impediment, prohibitive and diriment. The latter is more serious and requires dispensation from the Archbishop. That it went that high probably also points to the reason why the Banns were dispensed with. I’m unsure of the name – it looks like ‘Dowd’ – a bit of Googling should rectify that.

Thanks again pedro.

When you say the latter is more serious what does that mean?

pedroeibar1 · 25-08-2019 12:09pm

Most religions have laws on impediments to receiving their sacraments. On another thread for e.g. we spoke about illegitimacy being an impediment to the priesthood in the RCC. Henry VIII tried for an annulment from wife no.1 on the grounds that there was an impediment, as she had been married to his brother.

The RCC has a list of impediment for their sacraments which divide them into two categories, prohibitory and diriment. Should an undeclared impediment be in place and a ceremony take place in due form but without express permission(dispensation) of the Catholic Church, the difference is that a diriment impediment renders that ceremony null and void, and a prohibitory impediment only renders it illicit i.e. valid but illegal.

Some, not all, of these impediments can be removed by a cleric who grants a dispensation. The impediments are classified in rank, the position determines who is empowered to grant a dispensation, be it bishop, archbishop or the pope. Close consanguinity i.e. from fourth degree is an impediment, and the degree of consanguinity in the Bridgeman example required the archbishop’s dispensation as they were first cousins. No doubt a nice little fee earner!

Hermy · 25-08-2019 8:44pm

Super response pedro - chapeau!

SophieLockhart · 25-09-2019 12:10pm

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05770/4630946.pdf

William Hurley, no 209. Something? merchant

Thanks.

Edit: it's butter merchant.

Hesh's Umpire · 25-09-2019 5:32pm

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634550#page/98/mode/1up

Any ideas on the names of the sponsors of the birth of Anne Connell (sixth from bottom of this page)?

I have Bryan Connell and Eliz McEvoy for the sponsors of her twin Mary

Thanks…

spurious · 25-09-2019 5:40pm

Thomas Hanlon and Annie Flynn?

Hermy · 25-09-2019 5:44pm

Possibly Thomas Hanlon and Anne Flynn.

Also, possibly Elin [short for Elinor] rather than Eliz McEvoy.

Whereisgerry? · 25-09-2019 7:00pm

Can anyone make out what is written on this record for Annie Galloway? I'm wondering if its written in Latin.

spurious · 25-09-2019 7:36pm

Is the original a baptismal record? It looks like it has been updated with her marriage details.
She married Thomas Hillard, son of Edward Hilliard and Margaret Kavanagh in ???? Portlaoighis 2nd June 1943.
The priest was Eugene Kerrigan, the witnesses Maurice Kenny(?) and Catherine Michael?/Mulhall?

Vetch · 25-09-2019 8:22pm

It's 'Eccles apud' before Portlaoighis - 'Church at'. I think it's Maurice Kerry.

Whereisgerry? · 25-09-2019 9:09pm

spurious wrote: »

Is the original a baptismal record? It looks like it has been updated with her marriage details.
She married Thomas Hillard, son of Edward Hilliard and Margaret Kavanagh in ???? Portlaoighis 2nd June 1943.
The priest was Eugene Kerrigan, the witnesses Maurice Kenny(?) and Catherine Michael?/Mulhall?

Yes, the original record is a baptism record. I think that you are correct. Annie's mothers baptism cert was updated with her marriage details too..her mothers marriage record was significantly more legible though! Thanks a million for your help.

Hesh's Umpire · 26-09-2019 9:30am

Kerry is a huge surname in Portlaoise if that's any help.

Whereisgerry? · 26-09-2019 3:36pm

[PHP][/PHP]

Hesh's Umpire wrote: »

Kerry is a huge surname in Portlaoise if that's any help.

Thanks for this! I think that its Kenny as Annie had Kenny cousins. In saying that, I don't know of any Maurice Kenny's so you could be right. Thanks for you help again.

montgo · 03-10-2019 12:44am

Hi,

This is a marriage record dated 11 Feb 1821 between Kerley & McGrath. I know that their names are John & Jane. There appears to be a dispensation that looks like 3rd & 4th. What do the other words mean. Click here

Right side towards end of page.

Vetch · 03-10-2019 7:30pm

montgo wrote: »

Hi,

This is a marriage record dated 11 Feb 1821 between Kerley & McGrath. I know that their names are John & Jane. There appears to be a dispensation that looks like 3rd & 4th. What do the other words mean. Click here

Right side towards end of page.

It looks like 'Obtenta in 3tio & 4to affinitatis gradibus nec non & in bans dispd'. So I'm guessing it's a dispensation for 3rd and 4th degrees of affinity and for banns.

Meursault · 08-10-2019 2:31pm

Hi All,

I am looking to decipher the maiden name of the mother in this birth register. Any takers? Looks like Sewell, or Jewell maybe?

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03622/2337032.pdf

See female "Unknown" Talbot - entry number 8 on the file for birth registers in Mallow, January 1864. Father's name is Nicholas Talbot.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

Also, would anyone hazard a guess at the occupation of the informant? Thanks

Hermy · 08-10-2019 2:41pm

Informant looks to be the father who is a teacher.

I'm reading his name as Richard - not Nicholas.

Jellybaby1 · 08-10-2019 4:28pm

Richard Talbot and Jane Sewell, I'd say.

Hermy · 08-10-2019 7:41pm

Second entry down is the birth record of Mary Brogan, daughter of Bernard Brogan and Martha Burrows.

For Date and Place of Birth I'm reading -

Fourth
March
1866
Nerney's
Cottages
Sandwith
Street not __________ ???

What do you think that last word is?

ath262 · 08-10-2019 8:06pm

not numbered

there's a small x where he was going to put the number

Hermy · 08-10-2019 8:13pm

Good spot ath!

dia squish · 24-10-2019 9:41pm

Looking at entries 479 and 480 here.

479 - Can't figure out the place of death, occupation, or the word under the informant's name (cousin?)

480 - Cause of death?

Also - anyone think these two entries are referring to the same person?

KildareFan · 24-10-2019 10:18pm

479 & 480 - seems to relate to the same person with slight differences in details; the first informant is Anastatia Kavanagh Cullen, present at death, residence 52 Mountjoy Square; the second informant was Nicholas Whyte esq, Coroner for the city of Dublin
place of death - Jervis St Hospital; residence [hard to read] 4 Court & House Ball? on off Great Hawkins ... Lisyard???
occupation 479 ship stoker; 480 ship fireman
cause of death: 479 Fracture of the skull, inquest; 480 fracture of the skull by falling into the hold of a ship accidental, inquest held 10 July 88

Freeman's Journal 10 July 1888 p3 reports that he died in the hold of the Steamer "Longford"; the inquest was told he fell 23ft into the hatch, verdict accidental death [Dublin Daily Express 11 July 1888]

spurious · 24-10-2019 10:23pm

479 Place of death was Jervis St hospital, but I think after that is a Liverpool address.
Occupation - Ship _____?
Given the dreadful writing, could be cousin.

**edit
Checking the papers for inquest reports, it seems he fell 23 feet down a hatchway into the hold of the steamer Longford.

dia squish · 25-10-2019 1:11pm

KildareFan wrote: »

479 & 480 - seems to relate to the same person with slight differences in details; the first informant is Anastatia Kavanagh Cullen, present at death, residence 52 Mountjoy Square; the second informant was Nicholas Whyte esq, Coroner for the city of Dublin
place of death - Jervis St Hospital; residence [hard to read] 4 Court & House Ball? on off Great Hawkins ... Lisyard???
occupation 479 ship stoker; 480 ship fireman
cause of death: 479 Fracture of the skull, inquest; 480 fracture of the skull by falling into the hold of a ship accidental, inquest held 10 July 88

Freeman's Journal 10 July 1888 p3 reports that he died in the hold of the Steamer "Longford"; the inquest was told he fell 23ft into the hatch, verdict accidental death [Dublin Daily Express 11 July 1888]

spurious wrote: »

479 Place of death was Jervis St hospital, but I think after that is a Liverpool address.
Occupation - Ship _____?
Given the dreadful writing, could be cousin.

**edit
Checking the papers for inquest reports, it seems he fell 23 feet down a hatchway into the hold of the steamer Longford.

Thanks guys!

How did you find these inquest details? I have a FMP subscription and entered the name and date into the newspaper search, but didn't get any results.

KildareFan · 25-10-2019 1:40pm

<How did you find these inquest details? I have a FMP subscription and entered the name and date into the newspaper search, but didn't get any results.>

The newspaper reports didn't mention his address - often less detail in the search criteria will produce more results.

What's strange is that his death was registered twice - normally with an inquest, the coroner will be the informant, which happened in this case. For some reason Anastatia also decided to register the death.

spurious · 25-10-2019 4:07pm

I found the inquest report on irishnewsarchive.com . It's a subscription site - though free in libraries and schools.

Vetch · 25-10-2019 9:09pm

I think that the Liverpool address is [ ] Street off Great Howard, Liverpool.

Waitsian · 01-11-2019 4:31pm

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10851/5961850.pdf

Third entry down, father of the bride. I can't make out his first name. The surname is Tully, and he's 'living'. I think his occupation is 'Smith'?

pinkypinky · 01-11-2019 4:50pm

It looks like Norah but that can't be right.

ath262 · 01-11-2019 4:51pm

Church record gives parents as John and Norah

BowWow · 01-11-2019 4:51pm

Is it the Pro Cathedral?
Have you looked at Church record?

Waitsian · 01-11-2019 5:29pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

It looks like Norah but that can't be right.

That's what I thought! They subsequently had a daughter called Norah. Hmmm. Could Margaret's mother have been Norah and it's a mistaken entry? I hardly think the person filling it in would put a mother's name deliberately.

Thanks all. John it is so...

Edit: mother was indeed Norah, going by the church record.

Hermy · 01-11-2019 5:49pm

For what it's worth, I have an Irish civil marriage record where the groom's mother is named instead of his father, said groom having been born out of wedlock.

kanadams123 · 27-11-2019 7:29pm

Marriage

Any ideas on the marriage of Owen Hayes and Julia Carroll (sponsors transcribed as Thomas Hayes and John Carroll)
The very bottom of the left page! There seems to extra writing, possibly Latin? I can't even make that out!

Wyldwood · 27-11-2019 9:42pm

kanadams123, they got a dispensation as they were 1st cousins.

kanadams123 · 27-11-2019 10:17pm

1st cousins?

Wow, was not expecting that!
Thanks for the help wyldwood!

A New earth · 28-11-2019 12:16am

My understanding is 4th to 4th dispensation is for 3rd cousins

1st to 1st is siblings
2nd to 2nd is 1st cousins
3rd to 3rd is 2nd cousins

Wyldwood · 28-11-2019 10:11am

Apologies, of course A New Earth is correct 3rd cousins - wasn't thinking properly.

kanadams123 · 28-11-2019 2:26pm

Ahh Thanks Guys ! I was wondering this as I couldn't make a 1st cousin connection between them!

SophieLockhart · 09-12-2019 9:34pm

Cause of death for No 156 please, before 'cardiac dropsy'. Elizabeth Coll -

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05919/4680585.pdf

montgo · 09-12-2019 10:00pm

Mitral Stenosis?

SophieLockhart · 09-12-2019 11:43pm

montgo wrote: »

Mitral Stenosis?

Wow that doesn't even sound like something real, but apparently it is and connected to cardiac issues. Thanks.

kildarejohn · 11-12-2019 12:49pm

Placename in Kildare baptismal Register

Would be interested in opinions on the interpretation of one place that appears several times in the 1844 Register for Kildare Parish here - https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634478#page/19/mode/1up

The name appears against the entries on March 12th & Mar 24th - towards bottom of LH page - and on May 5th & 7th on RH page.
It could be "Coolahan" or "Coolban" or maybe "Cashlan", but I cannot find any Townland names or names on map to match any of those for near Kildare Town. Any ideas?

BowWow · 11-12-2019 1:00pm

I read the March ones as "Cashlan" and the May ones as "Coolahan".

I looked at the register before looking at what you thought they were.

jos28 · 11-12-2019 3:34pm

Looking for help with the address for Richard and Alice Keogh on this marriage cert please. Is it unusual that they would have the same surname/address ??

spurious · 11-12-2019 3:46pm

It's Harman Street. It was Alice's address.
Richard may have given it rather than a barracks.

jos28 · 11-12-2019 4:14pm

Cheers Spurious, many thanks

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page