Coronavirus

sodacat11 · 09-03-2020 5:42pm #1

I wonder what the repercussions of the virus will be for the chess world? Are tournaments like Galway and the Easter festival in doubt? Will the Candidates be cancelled? Will chess come to a standstill until the virus has passed? How many fatalities will there be in the chess community? Worrying times indeed.:(

anchor4208 · 09-03-2020 7:19pm

For the time being, I guess we won't be shaking hands before and after games?

begbysback · 09-03-2020 7:22pm

anchor4208 wrote: »

For the time being, I guess we won't be shaking hands before and after games?

You still have to take their pieces, unless you flick them off the board.

spidersweb · 09-03-2020 7:41pm

Plenty of chess events have been cancelled already. In Iceland, UAE (Dubai), Azerbajan,Thailand, Italy,Vietnam, to name just a handful, though there are many more I think.

Still far too early to know how bad it might get. So far it is at the contained stage in Ireland. Next few weeks are perhaps critical.

Fine line between panic, hysteria and sound precautions and preemptive actions/policies. The fact that flights from Italy were allowed to carry on without actions taken like serious screening is probably the reason it got in here. The way it works is - case - case, cluster - BOOM! If and when that happens here, goodness only knows how messed up things will be.

Varadkar and Simon Harris in charge? Holy cow, we are screwed for sure.

cdeb · 09-03-2020 8:03pm

anchor4208 wrote: »

For the time being, I guess we won't be shaking hands before and after games?

Already recommended by FIDE.

Though as begbysback points out, taking pieces is still an issue - as is sitting so close to your opponent for so long. So you may as well shake hands really.

spidersweb · 09-03-2020 9:00pm

cdeb wrote: »

So you may as well shake hands really.

Exactly.

sodacat11 · 09-03-2020 9:06pm

spidersweb wrote: »

Plenty of chess events have been cancelled already. In Iceland, UAE (Dubai), Azerbajan,Thailand, Italy,Vietnam, to name just a handful, though there are many more I think.

Still far too early to know how bad it might get. So far it is at the contained stage in Ireland. Next few weeks are perhaps critical.

Fine line between panic, hysteria and sound precautions and preemptive actions/policies. The fact that flights from Italy were allowed to carry on without actions taken like serious screening is probably the reason it got in here. The way it works is - case - case, cluster - BOOM! If and when that happens here, goodness only knows how messed up things will be.

Varadkar and Simon Harris in charge? Holy cow, we are screwed for sure.

Not meaning to be facetious about it but in the unlikely event that we end up losing three or four percent of the population the Government will no longer have to worry about finding the money for pensions in the near future, the hospital overcrowding would , in the long term, be solved and probably the housing crisis too. I hesitate to say that every cloud has a silver lining as it would be too high a price to pay.

pdemp · 09-03-2020 11:32pm

cdeb wrote: »

Already recommended by FIDE.

Though as begbysback points out, taking pieces is still an issue - as is sitting so close to your opponent for so long. So you may as well shake hands really.

Running the older age groups events seems incredibly irresponsible given that the death rate is so heavily skewed towards 50+ and even more for 65+. That 1m advice should be for breathing only, droplet spread increases to 2m for coughs in indoor environments and something like 6m for unobstructed sneezes.

Locally the last round of the leagues should definitely be looked at.

mikhail · 10-03-2020 3:20pm

pdemp wrote: »

Locally the last round of the leagues should definitely be looked at.

It's far enough away that we can sit and wait on it for now. By late April, most likely either nothing like that will be going ahead, or we'll be past the worst of it. I guess we can postpone it for several months if necessary. Round 10 of the Armstrong is in 9 to 11 days though. That needs a call made in the next week. Probably best to wait the week too, just to see what's happening seeing as the situation is changing rapidly.

I presume sodacat wouldn't object to postponements in the current situation.

RooksPawn · 10-03-2020 4:22pm

The World Senior Team Championships is in progress in Prague but some players (including GM Nunn) and even a few whole teams withdrew. Ireland 65+ are playing with a team of 3 as one person decided not to go in the end. They managed to draw their match yesterday against higher-rated opponents despite defaulting board 4.

I think senior events (and even many ordinary events) abroad and in Ireland must be in doubt though it looks like the Candidates will go ahead, with Maxime Vachier-Legrave replacing Radjabov who decided not to go to Russia.

Reykjavik cancelled its Open a couple of days ago. I have doubts whether the Chess Olympiad in Moscow will go ahead in August.

The last round of the Leinster leagues and the last round of the 4NCL may be just when infections reach their peak.

sodacat11 · 10-03-2020 8:29pm

mikhail wrote: »

I presume sodacat wouldn't object to postponements in the current situation.

Sodacat has no objections. The whole thing is a massive pain in the (_x_). The repercussions are potentially catastrophic, not just from a health viewpoint but also financially and socially. Imagine what it would be like if a virus like this with a 100% death rate for all age groups ever started spreading.
Chess seems trivial in comparison but I am hoping that both Galway and the Easter tournaments will go ahead and that the whole crisis is over by the time the Irish Championship comes around.

spidersweb · 10-03-2020 8:47pm

I blame the government.

cdeb · 11-03-2020 12:03am

pdemp wrote: »

Locally the last round of the leagues should definitely be looked at.

Advice going out to clubs from the LCU in the next day or two is that league games should continue as scheduled for the moment. They're of a scale which is way below any ban on gatherings in other countries (except Italy and China). But any contrary advice from Government and even the ICU in the near future can and will change that.

The last round of the leagues are six weeks away, which is too far away to make a call on at the moment, but if clubs do want to try play games early, that would be encouraged.

But with 10 cases being diagnosed today - the biggest one-day jump yet - the simple fact of the matter is nobody knows what next week will look like (this time last week, there were just 2 cases here), so this is something which will probably evolve over the coming days and weeks.

sodacat11 · 11-03-2020 12:11am

I'm amazed that Cheltenham is going ahead. Sixty thousand people a day squashed in like sardines and most of them Irish.

cdeb · 11-03-2020 12:13am

And with an active case in Cheltenham too.

spidersweb · 11-03-2020 12:36am

cdeb wrote: »

Advice going out to clubs from the LCU in the next day or two is that league games should continue as scheduled for the moment. They're of a scale which is way below any ban on gatherings in other countries (except Italy and China). But any contrary advice from Government and even the ICU in the near future can and will change that.

The last round of the leagues are six weeks away, which is too far away to make a call on at the moment, but if clubs do want to try play games early, that would be encouraged.

But with 10 cases being diagnosed today - the biggest one-day jump yet - the simple fact of the matter is nobody knows what next week will look like (this time last week, there were just 2 cases here), so this is something which will probably evolve over the coming days and weeks.

Very sound and sensible.

spidersweb · 11-03-2020 12:40am

sodacat11 wrote: »

I'm amazed that Cheltenham is going ahead. Sixty thousand people a day squashed in like sardines and most of them Irish.

It is astounding really when you think about it. Like I said. I blame the governments:

https://youtu.be/K0HYh6zjTUo

spidersweb · 11-03-2020 12:44am

sodacat11 wrote: »

I'm amazed that Cheltenham is going ahead. Sixty thousand people a day squashed in like sardines and most of them Irish.

Number of total coronavirus cases in Italy

16 days ago: 100

10 days ago: 1,000

Today: more than 10,000

Ah sure, have a great time in Cheltenham

pdemp · 11-03-2020 1:04am

cdeb wrote: »

Advice going out to clubs from the LCU in the next day or two is that league games should continue as scheduled for the moment. They're of a scale which is way below any ban on gatherings in other countries (except Italy and China). But any contrary advice from Government and even the ICU in the near future can and will change that.

The last round of the leagues are six weeks away, which is too far away to make a call on at the moment, but if clubs do want to try play games early, that would be encouraged.

But with 10 cases being diagnosed today - the biggest one-day jump yet - the simple fact of the matter is nobody knows what next week will look like (this time last week, there were just 2 cases here), so this is something which will probably evolve over the coming days and weeks.

But will teams be punished if they chose to not field a team (rules 5.3 and 5.8, which allow for controller decisions). Risk assessment for a team of kids is very different from one with 6 seniors.

cdeb · 11-03-2020 7:59am

Right now, there's no particular reason not to play. The number of cases is tiny, there's no applicable government warnings, and it's more dangerous to use public transport, which lots of people currently do anyway. I think we have to keep that in perspective.

If an individual player doesn't want to play, that's their call entirely and a club can use a sub.

It may be that something will happen that causes a club to be relegated - they field a weakened team, they scratch a board, maybe another team agree a draw or two. It's not ideal of course - but it's only a game. And again, I think that perspective is worth keeping in mind.

This thing appears to be potentially unprecedented - or it could die off once summer arrives. We have no idea. For now, there seems no reason not to play games as scheduled and to keep an eye day by day. I don't see what the alternative is tbh.

Rule 5.3 is never implemented anyway. Rule 5.8 may well have to be given some leeway.

spidersweb · 12-03-2020 1:39pm

It's kicking off now. https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0312/1121820-coronavirus/

sodacat11 · 12-03-2020 1:41pm

I guess that tournaments can still be held if the numbers are limited to below 100 but will they be?

cdeb · 12-03-2020 2:08pm

Checking internally with LCU - but from leagues point of view it would appear that league games should now be postponed until 29th March under the heading of reduced social interaction. The numbers in a match are small obviously and they could in theory still go ahead, but certainly any player/team not wanting to play gets priority.

The last round of the leagues is more than 100 people, but it's outside the timeline specified. So for now, I guess we have to hope these early measures stop the spread and we'll be back to normal in a few weeks. It's looking less likely, granted, but we will have to wait and see.

That's not formal LCU advice; just my own musings as a committee member.

spidersweb · 12-03-2020 2:08pm

I guess. Or just have people in rooms with less than 100 people per room?

spidersweb · 12-03-2020 2:12pm

cdeb wrote: »

Checking internally with LCU - but from leagues point of view it would appear that league games should now be postponed until 29th March under the heading of reduced social interaction. The numbers in a match are small obviously and they could in theory still go ahead, but certainly any player/team not wanting to play gets priority.

The last round of the leagues is more than 100 people, but it's outside the timeline specified. So for now, I guess we have to hope these early measures stop the spread and we'll be back to normal in a few weeks. It's looking less likely, granted, but we will have to wait and see.

That's not formal LCU advice; just my own musings as a committee member.

Seems sensible and sound, but I do wonder if some people in and outside of chess might use this "social distancing" as an excuse. What about the courts? Hard to know I suppose. How long before someone holds up a bank claiming they have a bottle of Corona and will use it unless...

cdeb · 12-03-2020 2:15pm

Courts = important
Chess = not important

You're not suggesting the two should be governed by the same rules surely?

spidersweb · 12-03-2020 2:18pm

cdeb wrote: »

Courts = important
Chess = not important

Nah you have that the wrong way around!

mikhail · 12-03-2020 4:30pm

I think the sensible thing to do is to postpone the matches. We can finish the league some week in the summer when the supermarkets have restocked with toilet paper.

spidersweb · 12-03-2020 6:46pm

mikhail wrote: »

I think the sensible thing to do is to postpone the matches. We can finish the league some week in the summer when the supermarkets have restocked with toilet paper.

See how things are going over the next two weeks. Many people will tune out very soon and not be interested in playing after April. The last round is far enough away to also be able to assess things closer to the time.

sodacat11 · 12-03-2020 8:43pm

Three of the Rathmines v Gonzaga A Armstrong games were supposed to be played tonight but we (Rathmines) requested a postponement as none of us wanted to play. Quite apart from the slight risk involved it just isn't easy to concentrate on chess at the moment.

cdeb · 12-03-2020 9:23pm

LCU have advised clubs that all games are postponed until 29th March at least, following Varadkar's statement earlier.

sodacat11 · 13-03-2020 12:09am

Galway congress has been cancelled. Sad but wise.

Eugene Donohoe · 13-03-2020 1:23am

sodacat11 wrote: »

Galway congress has been cancelled. Sad but wise.

A sensible and practical decision. I want to wish all of our chess friends well in the difficult times ahead.

spidersweb · 13-03-2020 2:40pm

cdeb wrote: »

LCU have advised clubs that all games are postponed until 29th March at least, following Varadkar's statement earlier.

What if two teams are happy to go ahead and play each other as per the schedule?

cdeb · 13-03-2020 2:56pm

There's nothing the LCU can really do to stop that other than to note that it is in breach of government requests aimed at the wellbeing of the population.

It's not encouraged, but certainly a game is way below the threshold for internal activities (100+ people), although it does still constitute unnecessary social interaction

spidersweb · 13-03-2020 3:03pm

cdeb wrote: »

There's nothing the LCU can really do to stop that other than to note that it is in breach of government requests aimed at the wellbeing of the population.

It's not encouraged, but certainly a game is way below the threshold for internal activities (100+ people), although it does still constitute unnecessary social interaction

I just had the idea that it was all about the 100 people indoors aspect, but yeah if it is about "social distancing" then I can see the logic. Not sure if it is a good idea or not, as if we apply such a precautionary principle to any amount of things we would perhaps almost never leave the house. More focus and practical might be to screen and isolate people coming into Ireland, like with the thousands returning from Cheltenham? Hard to balance things and avoid panic and hysteria. Have a feeling that a lot of people simply won't be interested much in League chess after April. Until next season, assuming we survive and life goes on.

cdeb · 13-03-2020 3:52pm

You could well be right. I do know that one game went ahead last night because players had agreed to travel across town before the announcement came - and as it was way below the 100 people, both sides went ahead with a strict "no sniffles" rule.

Was it the right choice? Who knows. But everyone was in agreement, so it went ahead.

Obviously had anyone sought to postpone, that would have been the end of the matter

sodacat11 · 13-03-2020 4:30pm

The coronavirus pandemic might not peak until June or July. I think that we will be lucky if we are back playing chess in time for the Irish championships in July and I doubt that chess coaching in schools will resume before September.

Joedryan · 13-03-2020 6:27pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

The coronavirus pandemic might not peak until June or July. I think that we will be lucky if we are back playing chess in time for the Irish championships in July and I doubt that chess coaching in schools will resume before September.

I was about to post that question, will the Irish ch go ahead?

For myself planning a flight from Spain where we are all in lockdown too now, looks doubtful. I am working from home 24/7 now and cant see this getting better any time soon.

I see good ol Boris Johnson thinks its all ok mind

sodacat11 · 13-03-2020 7:01pm

Joedryan wrote: »

I was about to post that question, will the Irish ch go ahead?

For myself planning a flight from Spain where we are all in lockdown too now, looks doubtful. I am working from home 24/7 now and cant see this getting better any time soon.

I see good ol Boris Johnson thinks its all ok mind

I think that England has been very irresponsible in its dealing with coronavirus. They seem happy to have a cull of their elderly and infirm. I presume that Irish teams won't be attending 4NCL matches?

Joedryan · 13-03-2020 7:19pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

I think that England has been very irresponsible in its dealing with coronavirus. They seem happy to have a cull of their elderly and infirm. I presume that Irish teams won't be attending 4NCL matches?

I've tried to follow the "science" Johnson keeps going on about, it does seem to be a very defeatist strategy - lets infect 60% + of the population to get some kind of "herd immunity"

mad stuff if you ask me

spidersweb · 13-03-2020 8:33pm

Joedryan wrote: »

I've tried to follow the "science" Johnson keeps going on about, it does seem to be a very defeatist strategy - lets infect 60% + of the population to get some kind of "herd immunity"

mad stuff if you ask me

Hard to know who or what to believe.

Blue line shows the risk of too much early intervention and no herd immunity - a second peak. Likely next winter - a very dangerous point. Government's view is it's better to peak once and have that as close to the summer as possible.

ETAGAdxXQAUduM4?format=jpg&name=large

pdemp · 13-03-2020 9:56pm

If this was a disease in cattle I'd completely agree with what the UK are doing, but the above graph seems to ignore that fact all other countries can repeat the shutdown but with 6 months to plan for it versus the UK's 1-5% of those over the blue, under the green can between months 3 and 7 can just die because we don't want 2-3 shutdowns [time to get to vaccine]. And that's assuming medium term immunity.

I was really worried Ireland was following the UK's lead until yesterday. Using https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/download-todays-data-geographic-distribution-covid-19-cases-worldwide data I had thought (very crude analysis) we'd have 16 new cases yesterday [was 27 so shocked but hard to predict with such small numbers early on], 23 today, 32 tomorrow, 45 on Sun, 64 Mon, 90 Tues, 127 Wed, 180 Thurs, 254 Fri, but now I'm hopeful that Wed, Thu, Fri figures will be down to 71, 87, 107, but God know what Cheltenham will do to that [it's not the outdoor element of it, more the pubs afterwards].

Pete Morriss · 16-03-2020 9:38pm

I happened to see that chess24 is reporting that an Irish player - presumably a junior - has had a preliminary positive test in Murmansk

Let's hope it's a false alarm.

cdeb · 16-03-2020 9:54pm

It's not.

But would obviously advise standard common sense precautions when discussing another person's medical issues in public.

sodacat11 · 16-03-2020 9:54pm

Pete Morriss wrote: »

I happened to see that chess24 is reporting that an Irish player - presumably a junior - has had a preliminary positive test in Murmansk

Let's hope it's a false alarm.

Bloody stupid to be in Murmansk at all at the moment, if I had kids who were entered there I would have kept them at home.

mikhail · 16-03-2020 10:19pm

sodacat11 wrote: »

Bloody stupid to be in Murmansk at all at the moment, if I had kids who were entered there I would have kept them at home.

I mostly agree, though Russia has some of the lowest numbers of cases (especially per capita) of anywhere*, and this whole thing has escalated a lot in a week.

*If you believe their numbers. I don't.

sodacat11 · 16-03-2020 10:23pm

I don't know how people are even thinking about chess at the moment. I will just be happy if I and the people I love are still alive at the end of this disaster.

spidersweb · 16-03-2020 11:43pm

It just gets weirder and weirder. Russia is probably the safest country one can think of. Hopefully , as with the overwhelming number of cases for young people, it will be ok for the child in question and everything will be ok.

spidersweb · 16-03-2020 11:46pm

"So, in Murmansk, the coronavirus was detected. We make a reservation, the test is screening, to put an end to the question: is it really COVID-19 or a false-positive reaction will be possible only after a confirmatory analysis. An Irish citizen took part in the annual chess tournament, which took place at the Meridian Hotel last weekend. It remains to be seen how, despite the ban on mass events with the participation of foreigners, this became possible. Information about the result of the analysis came when the chess player was already registered. So Murmansk Airport is in a special mode today. Well, at the Meridian Hotel, where the chess tournament was held and the participants lived, Rospotrebnadzor is working today. An analysis reception center was deployed on the ground floor, an epidemiological investigation is being conducted, all contacts are identified and conversations are conducted with them.

Marina Kalmykova, General Director of the Meridian Congress Hotel: “Analyzes today were taken from absolutely all employees who contacted the tournament participants and who did not contact. We were not officially shut down, but for two days we did not settle anyone until we were ready the results of the analyzes of all the employees and those clients who were in the hotel. Those four maids who worked directly on this floor are isolated for two days, suspended from work, as are the two reception staff. We are waiting for the results of analyzes. ”

Mobile groups of the regional center for hygiene and epidemiology arrived at the Meridian congress hotel together with Rospotrebnadzor employees. First of all, we started processing the premises, - object number one is room 5009, on the fifth floor, where the Irish chess player lived. For disinfection, a composition based on quaternary ammonium compounds is used. The procedure itself is standard."

Joedryan · 16-03-2020 11:48pm

Meanwhile, all sporting events in the world are cancelled, countries in lockdown, but the geniuses in FIDE have decided lets go ahead with the candidates

You couldnt make it up.

Coronavirus

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