Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Death of 25-year-old Peggy McCarthy of Listowel, 1946

124»

Comments

  • #152
    oceanman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭oceanman


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    and if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
    I didn't say I believed it but its what they are saying, so why is the state not taking them up on it?


  • #153
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    markodaly wrote: »
    The state is well within their rights to CP the land, but they are not in their rights to buy land for just €1. Totally unconstitutional and the Irish courts, as well as the ECJ, will smack any of that populist nonsense down.

    So, try again....

    The RCC owe the State millions for the sex abuse scandals - why do the Courts have to get involved? The RCC could just hand them over, for a €1 - and the State could use all the info they have on the RCC, which the public don't know about yet, to encourage them to do so.


  • #154
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,472 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    oceanman wrote: »
    I didn't say I believed it but its what they are saying, so why is the state not taking them up on it?

    Here's an example of one of the 'schools' offered :

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0827/723822-schools/

    A derelict building 8km outside the town it's supposed to serve which was empty for about 20 years. Thanks but no thanks.

    Actual schools offered, i.e. ones with, y'know, teachers and pupils not empty shacks, have been vigorously opposed at parish level and it's easy to exploit fear of change for parents who already have their kids enrolled in a school (while totally ignoring the demand for change from the parents of future pupils.)

    And so the game drags on and on. They will be resisting this for decades to come, if the government let them. Same as the 8th there can be no change until the people force politicians into it. The last few years have shown definitively that our politicians are way more socially conservative than the electorate.

    So if you desire an education for your kids with no religious indoctrination you're probably screwed, unless you live in an area with an expanding school population where a new school can be built. And even then, you're out of luck if the Dept of Education just decide to expand the existing religious schools - like they did in my area a few years ago with no consultation with parents.

    BTW I'm not sure "the church" has said they are willing to offload schools, Diarmuid Martin has. But talk is cheap and he has done nothing. For a man who likes to talk a lot about injustice, he could have ended the injustice of baptism barrier in all RC Dublin schools with a stroke of his gold pen, but he refused to even do that.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #155
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It wasnt me123 wrote: »
    The RCC owe the State millions for the sex abuse scandals - why do the Courts have to get involved? The RCC could just hand them over, for a €1 - and the State could use all the info they have on the RCC, which the public don't know about yet, to encourage them to do so.

    Various religious orders owe money (which should be paid out in full may I add), not the RCC per say, there is an important legal distinction.

    What information does the state have on the RCC, which would lead them handing over billions of euro worth of property for a few euros.... go on, I am all ears now.


  • #156
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    jmayo wrote: »
    Oh FFS.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    ...
    What sort of people took a woman to a hospital, knowing full well she wouldn't get admitted there?

    Where should they have taken her, the local vets. :mad:

    jaysus fook I do hope you are just trying to act the agent provocateur because if you are for real you really have some odious outlooks.

    You are attacking the one man who showed some true humanity towards this woman. :mad:

    BTW he took her to two hospitals and a home AFAIK.
    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Not quite sure where you're getting that from: the man I'm attacking ran away to England and was never heard from again (apparently - I bet he went home to mammy again after the trouble "died down").

    Men got away with shyte like this because society let them.

    I wonder where the hackney driver was from, that he was prepared to take Peggy in his taxi. Obviously was wasnt concerned about what the church-hierarchy might say.

    Bullshyte.
    See above.
    You actually had a go at the man, the hackney driver, that took her to two hospitals and eventually a home.

    Yes you had a go at the guy that got her pregnant, but you also called into question why anyone would have the decency to take her to a hospital.

    And that was the one man, John Guerin, that led the fight for her to be allowed into the church.
    That man had courage and was the one true christian in this poor woman's last hours.

    Granted some of the locals stood with him in order for her to get a christian burial.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Advertisement
  • #157
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

    Actual schools offered, i.e. ones with, y'know, teachers and pupils not empty shacks, have been vigorously opposed at parish level

    Are you making things up again, HD?

    And so the game drags on and on.

    This issue is of course is funding. The state is opening new Educate Togeher NS, all over the country, which has doubled over the past 10 years, yet for some they see this as some new frontier on the war against the RCC. Some, of course, could not care less, so long as their child gets a good education. The vast majority of Irish parents sit in this camp.

    I keep saying it and I will repeat. There is nothing stopping the state from buying up the schools themselves, apart from cold hard cash. Are you going to advocate that we should spend billions of euro doing this over the next few budget cycles, because of your own bigotry, while housing and health issues go on the back burner? Of course not.

    So if you desire an education for your kids with no religious indoctrination you're probably screwed.

    Not at all.
    BTW I'm not sure "the church" has said they are willing to offload schools, Diarmuid Martin has. But talk is cheap and he has done nothing. For a man who likes to talk a lot about injustice, he could have ended the injustice of baptism barrier in all RC Dublin schools with a stroke of his gold pen, but he refused to even do that.

    Could he now? LOL. :D


  • #158
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    gozunda wrote: »
    The 'tax' (For that is what it was) I refer to was the weekly mass 'collection'

    So not a tax then. Glad we cleared this up.

    with those who did not contribute being named and damned from the alter.

    Eh, no just no.

    Is there any historical peer-reviewed evidence that this occurred right across parishes and churches in Ireland on a regular level. Nope.

    Stop making things up.




    Who said anything of 'official religion'.

    You did. There is no official or state religion in Ireland.
    Best read the constitution for yourself.

    https://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/DOT/eng/Historical_Information/The_Constitution/Constitution_of_Ireland_-_Bunreacht_na_h%C3%89ireann.html


  • #159
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,472 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    markodaly wrote: »
    Are you making things up again, HD?

    So you can't refute what another poster is saying, so just accuse them of making it up. Uhuh.

    I keep saying it and I will repeat. There is nothing stopping the state from buying up the schools themselves, apart from cold hard cash. Are you going to advocate that we should spend billions of euro doing this over the next few budget cycles, because of your own bigotry, while housing and health issues go on the back burner? Of course not.

    Wanting an education where my kids' constitutional right to freedom of religion is respected is not bigotry.

    Not at all.

    Depends entirely on where you live. Some religious ethos schools are very nasty towards parents opting their kids out (a constitutional right, BTW) it all depends on the principal - and of course that can change for the better or worse during your kids' time there

    Most people don't live within distance of an ET and for most of those who do, they won't be able to get in due to the demand.

    Could he now? LOL. :D

    Yes, he could. He was the man who instructed all RC schools in Dublin to incorporate the baptism barrier into their admission policies in the first place.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #160
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    So you can't refute what another poster is saying, so just accuse them of making it up. Uhuh.

    A+ for anecdotal stories, but an F for actual facts.


    Wanting an education where my kids' constitutional right to freedom of religion is respected is not bigotry
    .


    Missing the main point, yet again. The issue is funding, are you going to advocate the state spends billions purchasing land from religious institutions or is ranting like a one tooth bigot all you have? (The bigot remark stems from previous comments you made about Catholics by the way, all there on the record.)


    Depends entirely on where you live. Some religious ethos schools are very nasty towards parents opting their kids out (a constitutional right, BTW) it all depends on the principal - and of course that can change for the better or worse during your kids' time there

    Yet, more anecdotal fairy stories.
    Most people don't live within distance of an ET and for most of those who do, they won't be able to get in due to the demand.
    Again, an issue with funding...


    Yes, he could. He was the man who instructed all RC schools in Dublin to incorporate the baptism barrier into their admission policies in the first place.

    We both know that is not true but if it makes you feel better to believe in nice good and evil fairy stories (oh the irony) go right ahead.


  • #161
    sligojoek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,420 ✭✭✭✭sligojoek


    markodaly wrote: »
    A+ for anecdotal stories, but an F for actual facts.



    .


    Missing the main point, yet again. The issue is funding, are you going to advocate the state spends billions purchasing land from religious institutions or is ranting like a one tooth bigot all you have? (The bigot remark stems from previous comments you made about Catholics by the way, all there on the record.)





    Yet, more anecdotal fairy stories.


    Again, an issue with funding...





    We both know that is not true but if it makes you feel better to believe in nice good and evil fairy stories (oh the irony) go right ahead.

    David Quinn called. He wants his hymnsheet back.


  • Advertisement
  • #162
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    havent heard or seen programme but how anyone could be shocked or surprised by the contents surprises me.
    that's the way the country was then. im betting many other countries were the same.
    regurgitating this stuff changes nothing but just allows the terminally offended to be 'shocked' and 'horrified' and given an opportunity to attack a religion that is no worse than any other.


  • #163
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    havent heard or seen programme but how anyone could be shocked or surprised by the contents surprises me.
    that's the way the country was then. im betting many other countries were the same.
    regurgitating this stuff changes nothing but just allows the terminally offended to be 'shocked' and 'horrified' and given an opportunity to attack a religion that is no worse than any other.

    Nah. Its good that we dont forget how malignant and cancerous the church was. Lest it makes a comeback


  • #164
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    that's the way the country was then. im betting many other countries were the same.

    At the time these events took place (1945/46) there wasn't a woman in Europe who wouldn't have gladly come to live in Ireland, 'evil' priests, nuns and all.


  • #165
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    sabat wrote: »
    At the time these events took place (1945/46) there wasn't a woman in Europe who wouldn't have gladly come to live in Ireland, 'evil' priests, nuns and all.

    Europe: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution
    Ireland: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution

    ‘But at least we never killed the jews (; ‘


  • #166
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    sk8erboii wrote: »
    Europe: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution
    Ireland: Gets overtaken by an authoritarian and repressive institution

    ‘But at least we never killed the jews (; ‘

    Godwined the hell out of that, didn’t you.


  • #167
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Godwined the hell out of that, didn’t you.

    Try to defend the church (;


  • #168
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    No, the Church got away with shyte like this because society let them.

    I don't disagree with that at all.

    But this all started with a lay man, who impregnated a woman and then was allowed to disappear to England. And the problem were continued by Church officials.

    Both equally to blame.


    jmayo wrote: »
    Bullshyte.
    See above.
    You actually had a go at the man, the hackney driver, that took her to two hospitals and eventually a home.

    Yes you had a go at the guy that got her pregnant, but you also called into question why anyone would have the decency to take her to a hospital.

    The hackney driver made the decision on where to take her? Not the midwife. Not her mother. Not a chance that happened.

    The midwife, at very least, had a responsibility to refer her to someplace that could help. Not to a maternity hospital (sic) that wasn't going to do so - and whose policies would have been well known at the time.


  • #169
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Looking at the wider historic context of a Europe that was on its knees with Millions of displaced people and being kept afloat by the Marshall plan, the financial resources where not in place to support any wide scale social schemes. As one of the few solvent institutions it was Church charity that keep at least some families, including my own, from having to emigrate.


  • #170
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Manach wrote: »
    Looking at the wider historic context of a Europe that was on its knees with Millions of displaced people and being kept afloat by the Marshall plan, the financial resources where not in place to support any wide scale social schemes. As one of the few solvent institutions it was Church charity that keep at least some families, including my own, from having to emigrate.

    Where do you think the church got the money from? Manna from heaven? I don't think so.


  • #171
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I don't disagree with that at all.

    But this all started with a lay man, who impregnated a woman and then was allowed to disappear to England. And the problem were continued by Church officials.

    Both equally to blame.





    The hackney driver made the decision on where to take her? Not the midwife. Not her mother. Not a chance that happened.

    The midwife, at very least, had a responsibility to refer her to someplace that could help. Not to a maternity hospital (sic) that wasn't going to do so - and whose policies would have been well known at the time.


    Without wanting to state the obvious, it takes two to tango.

    The absolute lack of sex ed really is to blame here. Why? because the RCC controlled all education sectors and preached and continues to preach btw, an unhealthy attitude towards sex.

    For all we know the BF went to work in England to make a few bob to provide and then seemed to disappear. Anything could have happened to the man, we don't know. Like a lot of Irish men who went to England in those days he could have fell into drink, failed to find work, felt disgraced by family (almost a certainty) who knows.


  • Advertisement
  • #172
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    Without wanting to state the obvious, it takes two to tango.

    The absolute lack of sex ed really is to blame here. Why? because the RCC controlled all education sectors and preached and continues to preach btw, an unhealthy attitude towards sex.

    For all we know the BF went to work in England to make a few bob to provide and then seemed to disappear. Anything could have happened to the man, we don't know. Like a lot of Irish men who went to England in those days he could have fell into drink, failed to find work, felt disgraced by family (almost a certainty) who knows.

    :confused: They were taught NO.


  • #173
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    Graces7 wrote: »
    :confused: They were taught NO.

    They were taught sex outside of marriage was a sin.

    Forbidden fruit and all that nonsense.


  • #174
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Graces7 wrote: »
    :confused: They were taught NO.

    Which coupled with the lack of sex education and the withholding of contraceptives bred some very unhealthy attitudes in society towards sex.

    People were ill equipped with knowledge and the consequences were enormous.


  • #175
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,472 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    markodaly wrote: »
    Missing the main point, yet again. The issue is funding, are you going to advocate the state spends billions purchasing land from religious institutions or is ranting like a one tooth bigot all you have? (The bigot remark stems from previous comments you made about Catholics by the way, all there on the record.)

    You like to run the mouth quite a lot, don't you?

    Either withdraw the bigot remark, provide links to back it up if you can, or I will report you for personal abuse. Your style of posting reflects very badly upon you.

    As for funding, we already fund the running of the schools and we paid to build almost all of them. But our craven politicians didn't ensure that we got ownership of these schools (same as is happening with the NMH)

    We should have a constitutional amendment and seize all national schools without compensation.

    Yet, more anecdotal fairy stories.

    Your ignorance is your problem. Read the School Patronage thread in A&A. Plenty of evidence there about how nasty some religious schools are towards parents wishing to opt their kids out of religion. You appear to be either profoundly ignorant or deep in denial.

    Also read this thread Daughter forced to believe in God


    Again, an issue with funding...

    It's not an issue with funding, it's an issue that 96% of the primary schools we pay for are controlled by religious organisations, most of whom insist on pushing their dogma on children against the wishes of their parents and violating their constitutional rights.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #176
    Hasschu
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Hasschu


    Ireland suffered a major famine beginning in 1845 and many people lived on the edge of starvation up until the 1960s'. I come from Listowel where my mother operated and owned a store for over 50 years. The people there are little different from those in the rest of the country. I would go so far as to say the Irish at that time were consumed with trying to survive both their living conditions and an ideological indoctrination that would make the Saudi Arabian Wahabbis look reasonable. A brutalised people who turned on each other at every opportunity. Prosperity since the 1960s' has allowed progress to be made for which we should all be grateful. I might add that the EU took our Govt. kicking and screaming into the 20th century in the 1970s'.


  • #177
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    Church on Tuesday wrote: »
    They were taught sex outside of marriage was a sin.

    Forbidden fruit and all that nonsense.

    Unless it was the clergy who were doing it and then it was grand.


  • #178
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

    We should have a constitutional amendment and seize all national schools without compensation.

    LOL. Sure thing. Let's turn Ireland into a greener version of Stalin's Russia while you are at it. You complained earlier about being called a bigot, well here is an example of you being one.

    Calling for a constitutional amendment to seize all the private property, owned by various religious orders and institutions, without compensation is certainly motivated by being an anti-religious bigot.

    You also said earlier you do not trust ANY priest or nun, tarring them all with one brush. Its fine that you hate the people in the Catholic church, I am no thought police but at least own it and stop the faux outrage at being called out at your behavior.

    By the way, your plan would also be against the ECJ AND the UNCHR, but I guess you don't think past your foaming hatred of religion.


    It's not an issue with funding

    Then why does the state not provide more money to a) fund more educate together schools or b) buy the property of national schools owned by religious bodies?

    Why not seize schools via payment? Why do you want the state to seize this land without compensation if the issue is not funding?

    Mod-Banned


  • #179
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The simpler solution is to ban any teaching of religion in state funded schools. No need to buy schools from religious orders or seize them. If parents want their children to learn about religion they can teach them themselves or send them to sunday. Expect religious participation to fall off a cliff if the state were brave enough to do that.


  • #180
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    The simpler solution is to ban any teaching of religion in state funded schools. No need to buy schools from religious orders or seize them. If parents want their children to learn about religion they can teach them themselves or send them to sunday. Expect religious participation to fall off a cliff if the state were brave enough to do that.

    I would not be against that idea per say, but it would be wildly unpopular with the majority of parents. And parents vote.

    I sympathise with parents who want to put their kids into an ET school and cannot get a place but to turn the blame from the government to religious-run schools is just idiotic.


  • Advertisement
  • #181
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    markodaly wrote: »
    I would not be against that idea per say, but it would be wildly unpopular with the majority of parents. And parents vote.

    I sympathise with parents who want to put their kids into an ET school and cannot get a place but to turn the blame from the government to religious-run schools is just idiotic.


    Would it really? What do you base that on? I imagine most parents wouldn't give a monkeys.


  • #182
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,862 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Would it really? What do you base that on? I imagine most parents wouldn't give a monkeys.

    Surveys carried out confirm this. Most parents are happy with the way the school system is run and what ethos they are run under. Dont let the idea of a loud minority overrule the facts on this.


  • #183
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    markodaly wrote: »
    Surveys carried out confirm this. Most parents are happy with the way the school system is run and what ethos they are run under. Dont let the idea of a loud minority overrule the facts on this.


    I dont suppose you have any links to such surveys?


  • #184
    It wasnt me123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,748 ✭✭✭It wasnt me123


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I dont suppose you have any links to such surveys?

    Google IONA - I'm sure you'll get loads of "independent" surveys saying Catholicism is fab


  • #185
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,472 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    markodaly wrote: »
    Calling for a constitutional amendment to seize all the private property, owned by various religious orders and institutions, without compensation is certainly motivated by being an anti-religious bigot.

    It seems personal attack is the only weapon in your armoury.

    I can call for a constitutional referendum on whatever topic I like, thanks. Whether people agree with me or not is up to them.

    This is nothing to do with bigotry, it's about the state having ownership of assets it funded.
    You also said earlier you do not trust ANY priest or nun, tarring them all with one brush.

    Provide a link. Nice of you strip away any and all context. I note you ran away and stopped posting here the last time I asked you to substantiate a nasty claim you made against me.
    Its fine that you hate the people in the Catholic church

    I hate the organisation, and anyone within it who condones or covers up grave wrongdoing or was willing to look the other way.
    Then why does the state not provide more money to a) fund more educate together schools or b) buy the property of national schools owned by religious bodies?

    Senior figures within the Dept of Education appear determined to resist the demands of both the public and successive ministers of education for reducing religious control of education.

    If Dept Education had got their way, Educate Together would never have been established in the first place.
    Why not seize schools via payment? Why do you want the state to seize this land without compensation if the issue is not funding?

    The state is already paying to run the schools, it in most cases fully funded the building of them, but it foolishly gave away control and ownership to religious bodies. That's an injustice against the public interest which needs to be rectified.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #186
    Hasschu
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Hasschu


    I was born and raised in Listowel, I left in the mid fifties, the day after my last day in secondary school. My take on public opinion in Ireland is that it was largely shaped by the 1840's Famine and widespread poverty up to about 1960. Merely survive was what most people endeavoured to do. The Government was as poor as the people and it should be no surprise that they gladly handed over responsibility for health, education, welfare to both the Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland. Admittedly the state largely funded those activities but there was a saving in the order of 20% + or -. One should also keep in mind that corruption in government was quite common. I distinctly remember delivering brown paper envelopes to politicians of both stripes and also that a high ranking police officer (Garda) was paid regularly. The payment was for signing off on an application to import plywood, my mother used to refer to the Police Officer as "dat thieven effer" and stronger as he raised the amount demanded over time. Public opinion wrt to poor people in general and unwed mothers in particular could only be described as barbaric. My father drank with a couple of Solicitors and I heard many times that the closing argument in court cases was "Your honour, my client has a one way ticket to Euston in his pocket and his sister in London has promised to take care of him. The sentence usually was "Bound over to keep the peace for 1 year" case closed. We sent the unwed mothers to Laundries and young men to England. If all the dissatisfied young people in Ireland had been forced to stay there revolution would have been inevitable. It is not popular to draw attention to the fact that emigration of the poor to England and middle class to the U.S. and Australia was what allowed the Irish government to govern irresponsibly with the Church as its major propaganda vehicle keeping raw emotions in check.

    Having said this I must add that I have a grandson enrolled in a highly rated Primary/Secondary Choir school run by an Irish descended Cardinal and founded by an Irish priest in 1937. The pupils are mostly Asian because the entry is by competitive exam, there are only two Irish descendants in a class of 23. The Cathedral was built in the 1860s' by the famine Irish with substantial funding by French Canadians. I hope I have not shocked too many of you.


  • Advertisement
  • #187
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yet another RTÉ Documentary on One was broadcast today. It had echoes of Peggy McCarthy's story - except this time it's from as recently as 1985:


    Documentary on One:The Case of Majella Moynihan
    In 1985, an unnamed female Garda was threatened with dismissal from An Garda Síochana for giving birth to a baby outside of wedlock. What led to those dismissal charges utterly changed her life. Majella Moynihan has remained silent - until now (2019)

    This evening, one of the most read stories on The Irish Times website reports on a statement tonight from the current Garda Commissioner apologising:

    Commissioner apologises to former garda investigated over premarital sex
    When she was 22, Ms Moynihan was charged with breaching the force’s disciplinary rules for the transgression of having premarital sex with another garda, becoming pregnant and having a child.

    Transcripts from an internal Garda hearing from the time reveal an aggressive line of questioning by senior officers, scrutinising the young woman’s sexual history, and her use of contraceptives.

    Faced with dismissal for bringing discredit to the force, Ms Moynihan only kept her job at the intervention of the archbishop of Dublin, who feared firing her would lead to more gardaí travelling to England for abortions, if they became pregnant outside of marriage.

    Ms Moynihan was born in Kanturk, Co Cork in 1962, and in 1983 joined An Garda Síochána.

    Training in Templemore, Co Tipperary, she met another Garda recruit, who she had had a previous relationship with. The pair started seeing each other again and Ms Moynihan became pregnant.

    In correspondence, a district officer in Store Street Garda station told a chief superintendent Ms Moynihan was “honest, dependable and willing”. The officer said: “I am particularly impressed by her devotion to duty while pregnant.”

    She gave birth to the baby, David, in Galway Regional Hospital in May 1984, and gave him up for adoption.

    “I felt and I still feel that I was pressurised into it . . . From the time that I told the authorities in the Garda Síochána that I was pregnant, that’s the one thing that was kept being mentioned: Was adoption, adoption, adoption,” Ms Moynihan told RTɒs Documentary on One.


  • #188
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I've listened to that Doc on one from today and sweet ****ing jesus even in 1985 Ireland was ****ed up.


  • #189
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    And given how the Gardai acted in the kerry baby case(kerry division of ****ing mensa) it's not surprising that this woman was treated the way she was. I hope she fleeces the guards for all she can get. I mean imagine a woman today being disciplined for getting pregnant ?


  • #190
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    We should have a constitutional amendment and seize all national schools without compensation

    The Criminal Assets Bureau should have been sent in long ago to seize all Church property with a view to compensating its victims generously.


  • #191
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Jawdropping. Imagine, the Commissioner travelling to the Archbishop's palace to decide on the fate of a young woman because she had a child out of wedlock. Sickening.

    I'm glad that woman got her apology in the end, but ffs, what kind of country were we at all?


  • Advertisement
  • #192
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,338 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Jawdropping. Imagine, the Commissioner travelling to the Archbishop's palace to decide on the fate of a young woman because she had a child out of wedlock. Sickening.

    I'm glad that woman got her apology in the end, but ffs, what kind of country were we at all?

    Would the apology have happened and as fast if it wasn’t the current commissioner ?


  • #193
    washman3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Would the apology have happened and as fast if it wasn’t the current commissioner ?

    He still owes an apology himself to the survivors and families of the Miami showband. Read your history.


Advertisement