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Techrete Development howth.

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  • 30-01-2016 4:11pm
    #1
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭


    Planning permission has been granted for development on the techcrete site.

    http://www.aodhanoriordain.ie/2016/01/23/howth-planning-permission-granted-for-techrete-site-f15a0362/

    The granted planning permission is for:

    144 apartments, 51 houses, 4 Traveller accommodation units , a community centre, 5 retail units, a crèche and a gym.

    Does anyone else think this is a bit much for the development.

    This just feels like developers trying to cash in again, but trying to sway the council by building traveler units, and other retail units.

    I think a development of this size could potentially ruin the village felling in howth.


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    #2
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    it wont just ruin howth as town it will have further effects on traffic on an already over trafficed sutton cross plus access in and out the site. Id say there will be issues with the locals over the traveler units especially if the state of other traveler accomodation sites in the surrounding areas is anything to go by. They should have actually applied for a hotel on the site as thats one thing howth lacks especially now with the amount of tourism is a hotel but i heard the bailey courts reopening as a hotel. A creche maybe needed in the area but another gym??


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    #3
    Dizzyblonde
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,108 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dizzyblonde


    I don't live in Howth but we often go over at weekends and summers evening for a stroll.
    I think it's a pity as neris says, that a nice big hotel isn't being built on the site. So many tourists visit Howth, they should be doing something to capitalize on that.


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    #4
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    There's simply no demand for a hotel in Howth as most tourism is on a day trip basis. There are a handful of B&Bs but one has closed in the last few years. The Baily Court hasn't shown any signs of movement since it was bought about 2 years ago and also for the 5ish years before that.

    The Traveller units are stuck down the northeast corner of the development which is not in keeping integration recommended practices. Traveller policy obligations have been met at the minimum level.

    There will be 4/5 entrances which is dangerous madness along that road section.

    There's a protected view of Ireland's Eye from the Howth Castle gates which will be obscured.

    It's also so far from the village that it won't affect its character much. Similar for the harbour. /imho

    The community centre development (not quite a gym) will be too far from the village.

    There might be flooding issues.

    However the 2 biggest issues are the size and height which should be reduced, and then the traffic at Sutton Cross which is poor especially around school times and when car loads come out on good weekends (can take as much as 90 minutes to get to Howth from Black Banks/The Causeway). The traffic survey they carried out was a bit of a farce - they couldn't have chosen a quieter, more unrepresentative time.

    I and loads of others I spoke to are very surprised it's passed as is, given the large number of people who attended a meeting in the Marine Hotel a few months back and many of whom would have lodged comments (objections). Development of the site is pretty much inevitable but this is simply far too big and with too many bad practices involved.


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    #5
    T-Maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Whatever about the specifics of the proposed development, it's great news that the site is being developed at last.


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    #6
    cbreeze
    Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭cbreeze


    the vehicle traffic in howth is very bad - as parking is free the area attracts the large camper vans and other vehicles. If people had to pay for parking there would be more incentive to use the DART and the bus.


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    #7
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Does anyone know what is happening to this site?


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    #8
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    the locals arent happy from what ive heard and a good few objections have been lodged over it


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    #9
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    Garden Centre and Dog Biz have shut.

    Development is stalled/not started as there is a case being brought before the High Court (iirc) by Christian Morris any time soon.


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    #10
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    tricky D wrote: »
    Garden Centre and Dog Biz have shut.

    Development is stalled/not started as there is a case being brought before the High Court (iirc) by Christian Morris any time soon.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/litigant-requests-tv-cameras-in-high-court-case-1.2946669

    this guy seems to be fond of court

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teachers-parking-incident-claims-dismissed-26781348.html


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    #11
    PlayByTheRules
    Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭PlayByTheRules


    Any update on this? Very little movement since it was first proposed.


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    #12
    Tayschren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭Tayschren


    Maybe they could put the travelers in balbriggan like they do with the rest of fingals problems.

    Bet there would be less arguments then


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    #13
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    has the site been sold yet? the receivers were the ones applying for planning permission. we got a flyer from a councilor in the door yesterday saying fingal had plans to build a community centre on the park just before techerete


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    #14
    Hollister11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Hollister11


    Tayschren wrote: »
    Maybe they could put the travelers in balbriggan like they do with the rest of fingals problems.

    Bet there would be less arguments then

    Well yea, why put travelers in a upmarket town. It would really bring down the tone of the place.


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    #15
    roycon111
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭roycon111


    tricky D wrote: »
    There's simply no demand for a hotel in Howth as most tourism is on a day trip basis. There are a handful of B&Bs but one has closed in the last few years. The Baily Court hasn't shown any signs of movement since it was bought about 2 years ago and also for the 5ish years before that.

    The Traveller units are stuck down the northeast corner of the development which is not in keeping integration recommended practices. Traveller policy obligations have been met at the minimum level.

    There will be 4/5 entrances which is dangerous madness along that road section.

    There's a protected view of Ireland's Eye from the Howth Castle gates which will be obscured.

    It's also so far from the village that it won't affect its character much. Similar for the harbour. /imho

    The community centre development (not quite a gym) will be too far from the village.

    There might be flooding issues.

    However the 2 biggest issues are the size and height which should be reduced, and then the traffic at Sutton Cross which is poor especially around school times and when car loads come out on good weekends (can take as much as 90 minutes to get to Howth from Black Banks/The Causeway). The traffic survey they carried out was a bit of a farce - they couldn't have chosen a quieter, more unrepresentative time.

    I and loads of others I spoke to are very surprised it's passed as is, given the large number of people who attended a meeting in the Marine Hotel a few months back and many of whom would have lodged comments (objections). Development of the site is pretty much inevitable but this is simply far too big and with too many bad practices involved.

    The volume of traveller and social housing is very small so will not have any affect on the area at all. It is close to a decent public transport hub by bus and dart so ideal in my eyes for this sort of development and the height is not out of line with the Howth lodge development or anything similar in the area such as Corr castle. The only issue I would have is that they need to ensure that the drainage down near the Baltray park end is fixed as I know those houses have an issue with flooding on the Deer Park side of the road particularly but I suspect their surveys have noted that and they will put in some sort of drainage ditch.

    Having houses built inside Howth is unlikely to effect the traffic coming into Howth on a sunny day as they are already in Howth....??!! that seems farily obvious. Also there are very few campervans around howth harbour even at peak times of year its more the Sunday drivers that create the problem but more darts to Howth on the weekend would help to sort that out as would more busses on Sundays and Saturdays in particular but Iarnroid Eireann and Dublin bus I fear do not have that sort of insight. Also paying for parking would help even if it was only a small amount as I know they don't want to scare off the customers but the place is unbearable these days. Rough crowd down there any sunny weekend as well - fairly intimidating even walking around the harbour area.


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    #16
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    More houses means more traffic in both directions, is what is actually obvious as they will have to travel beyond the immediate area for business and leisure activities like anywhere else. So there's no unlikely about it, especially considering the marginal properties of that variable and the fact that we are at the edge of the 'acceptable inefficiency' range as it is, if not beyond. Also it's not merely a Sunday driver type of problem as Sutton Crops is clogged many times during week days at off-peak times. The time to get through Sutton Cross was over 10 minutes each way on a not so sunny/no school Wed and Thurs mid-afternoon. This common now.

    As for camper vans there are usually at least a dozen at any time; about 18 yesterday.

    Paid parking is not a runner either as there is far too much resistance like when the overzealous parking warden was told to stop by the Gardaí a few years back.

    Also the rough crowd phenomenon is thankfully a rarity despite some instances of bad trouble in recent times. Thankfully those instances could be counted on only one hand. Otherwise any trouble is no more or less than normal. Really do not know where you have picked up the notion that walking is anywhere as intimidating as you believe - unless you mean the gulls which are a pain because eejits feed them.


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    #17
    Buckfast W
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭Buckfast W


    Just giving this thread a bump. Saw this this morning.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/project-pier-howth-4043107-May2018/


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    #18
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    saw the for sale sign up last night. i really hope they dont go high rise and high density


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    #19
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    This is being sold with planning permission attached?


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    #20
    superman28
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭superman28


    Isn't there tennis courts on the west side of this planning application? Are these not public property?
    The site is an eyesore and needs to be redeveloped into something. Howth also has a few sites that are not developed and could be,, the Bailey Hotel in the village an empty shell,, also the Edross community center,, no idea what the story is with this,, but its a large site behind the martello tower there on the East Pier.

    I don't accept the traffic argument it is served by a decent 31 bus and has a Dart station next to it..


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    #21
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    superman28 wrote: »
    Isn't there tennis courts on the west side of this planning application? Are these not public property?
    The site is an eyesore and needs to be redeveloped into something. Howth also has a few sites that are not developed and could be,, the Bailey Hotel in the village an empty shell,, also the Edross community center,, no idea what the story is with this,, but its a large site behind the martello tower there on the East Pier.

    I don't accept the traffic argument it is served by a decent 31 bus and has a Dart station next to it..

    It’s the general weekend traffic to howth added to this. I don’t think the residents will be able to leave in cars in fact without traffic lights.


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    #22
    BowWow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭BowWow


    superman28 wrote: »
    Isn't there tennis courts on the west side of this planning application? Are these not public property?
    The site is an eyesore and needs to be redeveloped into something. Howth also has a few sites that are not developed and could be,, the Bailey Hotel in the village an empty shell,, also the Edross community center,, no idea what the story is with this,, but its a large site behind the martello tower there on the East Pier.

    I don't accept the traffic argument it is served by a decent 31 bus and has a Dart station next to it..

    Planning application for Bailey Court/Edros development lodged with Bord Pleanala yesterday. Plans, elevations, reports etc. can be viewed here -

    http://www.howthshd.ie/


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    #23
    McAlban
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭McAlban


    BowWow wrote: »
    Planning application for Bailey Court/Edros development lodged with Bord Pleanala yesterday. Plans, elevations, reports etc. can be viewed here -

    http://www.howthshd.ie/

    As a Side note nice to see a developer publishing these. Sometimes the Scanning by FCC can be terrible to interpret.


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    #24
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    superman28 wrote: »
    I don't accept the traffic argument it is served by a decent 31 bus and has a Dart station next to it..
    Any time the weather is half decent, especially at weekends, the jams get really bad. It can take an hour some weekends to get through Sutton Cross. My longest was 115mins to get to Sutton Cross from Watermill Road/The Causeway. Then there's the DART getting pulled every Bank Holiday weekend for maintenance.


    Then there is the traffic survey which ABP use to justify the size of such developments, which is from a quiet Tuesday afternoon back in 2008 which is unrepresentative to the actual traffic volumes.



    While something does need to be done with the eyesores, these developments are just way too big.


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    #25
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    McAlban wrote: »
    As a Side note nice to see a developer publishing these. Sometimes the Scanning by FCC can be terrible to interpret.

    I can see some privacy concerns with the east most block there.


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    #26
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    McAlban wrote: »
    As a Side note nice to see a developer publishing these. Sometimes the Scanning by FCC can be terrible to interpret.

    Its a requirement for all SHD applications that the developer provides a website with the original docs.


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    #27
    roycon111
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭roycon111


    A further 200 apartments directly across the road to the right of the gate of Howth Castle are in pre-planning stage with Glenveagh homes.

    It is an SHD so will go directly to An Bord Pleanala and bypass Fingal County Council.

    They bought the 7 acre site for €14m it transpires.

    on top of the 512 units for techrete, 150 for Balscadden Bay, we are looking at 850 - 900+ additional new units in total in this immediate area in the new future.

    The council will almost certainly be forced to put in pay and display parking in Howth as a result of this


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    #28
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    On parking it is the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine who own and run the harbour who will be the main decision makers on parking. They might even be responsible for Harbour Road as it was constructed as part of the harbour. I'll try to check that later.

    850+ units on top of a population of ~8000 is going to be all sorts of traffic and parking fun. One of the engineer's reports on what is expected to happen (nothing significant they say) at Sutton Cross is comedy gold.


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    #29
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Recent correspondance to yacht club members said they are looking at this again already. The place is over touristed at this stage and all the extra development is just going to add to the chaos
    roycon111 wrote: »
    The council will almost certainly be forced to put in pay and display parking in Howth as a result of this


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    #30
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Planning been given for 177 apartments at the Bailey court site

    https://www.thejournal.ie/howth-apartments-bailey-court-hotel-marlet-group-5033123-Mar2020/


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    #31
    Conchir
    Registered Users Posts: 959 ✭✭✭Conchir


    512 apartments at the Techrete site approved by ABP. Mix of units, mostly 1 and 2 beds, and with a max height of 8 storeys.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-500-apartments-approved-for-howth-site-1.4225356

    Between that and the Baily Court, that’s a lottt of units.


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