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Internet Card Sharing is Illegal but...

  • 25-07-2010 12:23pm
    #1
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭


    Is it illegal to card share within a LAN?

    I have a FreeSat from Sky card for Channel 4 HD and the extra Five channels. I was thinking of using this card to card share between two linux boxes within my house. Would I be breaking the law by doing so?

    It seems like a grey area to me!


«1

Comments

  • #2
    JDxtra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    I think so, yes. You are deliberately circumventing the protection on the card. Doing it on your LAN or across the web is no different - even if you don't pay a monthly sub for the card.

    Expect this thread to be locked...


  • #3
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's not a Grey Area.

    It's theft of service under Irish law. The copyright owners can sue also, or Sky on their behalf.

    But if you obtain access to any service (Gas, Electric, Cable TV, phone, Satellite Pay TV) by any means not authorised by the supplier, it's Theft.

    It's not even a FTV card any more. But a Sky "Freesat from Sky" pay TV card that simply has once off payment and some "puppy dog" content and ability to have monthly subscription. The card is also sky/NDS property

    Even providing information as to how to steal a service is a criminal act in Irish Law.

    Nothing Grey about it!

    An original BBC solas (real FTV) card may have been a grey area. Current "Freesat from Sky" cards are once off payment pay TV cards, not FTV cards.


  • #4
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

    Still seems like a grey area to me.


  • #5
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    It's not a Grey Area.

    It's theft of service under Irish law. The copyright owners can sue also, or Sky on their behalf.

    But if you obtain access to any service (Gas, Electric, Cable TV, phone, Satellite Pay TV) by any means not authorised by the supplier, it's Theft.

    It's not even a FTV card any more. But a Sky "Freesat from Sky" pay TV card that simply has once off payment and some "puppy dog" content and ability to have monthly subscription. The card is also sky/NDS property

    Even providing information as to how to steal a service is a criminal act in Irish Law.

    Nothing Grey about it!

    An original BBC solas (real FTV) card may have been a grey area. Current "Freesat from Sky" cards are once off payment pay TV cards, not FTV cards.

    Isn't it piracy not theft?


  • #6
    Willbbz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Willbbz


    Pirates are thieves! YARHAR :pac:


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  • #7
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    Isn't it piracy to record TV onto DVD's?

    Isn't it piracy to use a TV distributor to other TV's?


  • #8
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    I can't seem to find much info on the net about Irish copyright laws. But I did find that St Patrick was captured but Irish Pirates here and the first case of copyright law in the world came in Ireland here

    Isn't wikipedia great!


  • #9
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RogerThis wrote: »
    So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

    Still seems like a grey area to me.

    No, it's not primarily copyright, though you can be sued for that too.

    It's primarily theft of service. Not about "copying".

    Same as if you had no card.


  • #10
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RogerThis wrote: »
    Isn't it piracy to record TV onto DVD's?
    That is a grey area if it's for personal use. If you do it for someone else it's copyright violation.
    RogerThis wrote: »
    Isn't it piracy to use a TV distributor to other TV's?
    No. As it's the same channel if a Sky box and they explicitly allow it, as long as it's your own house.

    non-Pay TV can be distributed to any number of TVs in your own house, but for a whole village that would be a public Cable TV and you then need to pay royalty to the content providers.


    Neither of these examples are related to stealing a PayTV service. It's not "card sharing", it stealing a service as sky charge extra for extra receivers' cards. The "card sharing" HW& SW gives additional receivers access to a service. Legally it's no different to encrypted cable or Satellite reception hacking without so called "card sharing".


  • #11
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    RogerThis wrote: »
    So it a bit like coping DVD's, even though you have paid for it, you are not entitled it copy it. It's breaking copyright protection.

    Still seems like a grey area to me.

    Not exactly the same thing, one might seen a legitimate need for a back up copy of the DVD, so that the original can stored in a safe place to prevent damage, and the copy can be used, but in this case, you are only using one version/copy of the DVD.

    The main purpose of card sharing is to allow for multiple copies of the card to be used, so it's not really the same thing and not gray in any way.


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  • #12
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    No, it's not primarily copyright, though you can be sued for that too.

    It's primarily theft of service. Not about "copying".

    Same as if you had no card.

    It is breaking the encryption key, which is the same as DVD copying.


  • #13
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Stealing Service: DPP Criminal Conviction, up to €5,000 fine and up to 6 months jail
    Violation of Copyright: Sky has to sue you. Civil suit. No limit to liability.

    You are doing both if you use "Card Sharing".
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/9778-gardai-seize-70k-worth-of/
    In October [2007], Sky secured judgment against Liam O'Brien and Satellite and TV Services Ltd, trading as Aertec with an address in Dublin, for the unauthorised supply of Sky's channels and satellite reception equipment to a number of hotels throughout the country.

    The case, before Judge Kelly in the High Court, was ruled following settlement between the parties, granting permanent injunctions restraining further infringement of Sky broadcasts and restraining the supply of equipment to facilitate other infringing of Sky's copyright.

    In addition, €40,000 was paid by the defendants to Sky in damages for copyright infringement.

    There is nothing "grey" about it. I don't understand why you want to argue it's "only" copyright violation. That's a civil matter with no limitation of liability.

    Stealing a service *IS* on the Irish Statute book as a criminal offence. With specified tarriff. Channels decrypted by "Free sat from Sky" card are as much a service in Irish law as Cable TV, phone, Electricty or Gas.

    Sky can even get a court order to get your IP and time/date of post and then a court order from the ISP to get your identity (for civil case of Copyright). Or the Garda could for a criminal case of Theft of Service.

    Or a future/current Employer could realise these posts are you.

    So your insistence to keep digging is idiotic.
    You asked
    Is it illegal to card share within a LAN?
    The simple answer is yes, it's theft of service, criminal.

    Copyright is a separate issue and is Civil Law, not Criminal law, so "illegal" in the normal sense doesn't apply. The injured party has to sue. It's not up to the Garda.


  • #14
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    That is a grey area if it's for personal use. If you do it for someone else it's copyright violation.


    No. As it's the same channel if a Sky box and they explicitly allow it, as long as it's your own house.

    non-Pay TV can be distributed to any number of TVs in your own house, but for a whole village that would be a public Cable TV and you then need to pay royalty to the content providers.


    Neither of these examples are related to stealing a PayTV service. It's not "card sharing", it stealing a service as sky charge extra for extra receivers' cards. The "card sharing" HW& SW gives additional receivers access to a service. Legally it's no different to encrypted cable or Satellite reception hacking without so called "card sharing".

    Are you going by Sky rules are Irish law?

    Irish law won't let you copy TV to DVD.

    I have been reading the Term and Condition that came with my card. In the Viewing card terms, it stated "(c) Only you may use the Viewing Card which we send you. You can only use the Viewing Card at your address which you have given to your service provider ("Address") and with the Box in which it is first authorised to receive encrypted digital satellite services. You must only use it for private viewing purposes. You must not use it for any commercial or business purposes or in any premises other than your Address unless you have an agreement with your service provider(s) that allows otherwise."

    So I would not be breaking Sky rules by card sharing.

    http://www1.sky.com/skyviewinghelp/terms.html


  • #15
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You ring and tell them and see how quick they turn off your card.
    You will be breaking Irish law and your Agreement with Sky.
    You can only use the Viewing Card at your address which you have given to your service provider ("Address") and with the Box in which it is first authorised to receive encrypted digital satellite services.
    Singular.


  • #16
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    Stealing Service: DPP Criminal Conviction, up to €5,000 fine and up to 6 months jail
    Violation of Copyright: Sky has to sue you. Civil suit. No limit to liability.

    You are doing both if you use "Card Sharing".
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/9778-gardai-seize-70k-worth-of/


    There is nothing "grey" about it. I don't understand why you want to argue it's "only" copyright violation. That's a civil matter with no limitation of liability.

    Stealing a service *IS* on the Irish Statute book as a criminal offence. With specified tarriff. Channels decrypted by "Free sat from Sky" card are as much a service in Irish law as Cable TV, phone, Electricty or Gas.

    Sky can even get a court order to get your IP and time/date of post and then a court order from the ISP to get your identity (for civil case of Copyright). Or the Garda could for a criminal case of Theft of Service.

    Or a future/current Employer could realise these posts are you.

    So your insistence to keep digging is idiotic.
    You asked

    The simple answer is yes, it's theft of service, criminal.

    Copyright is a separate issue and is Civil Law, not Criminal law, so "illegal" in the normal sense doesn't apply. The injured party has to sue. It's not up to the Garda.

    It still a grey issue, I don't distribute my FreeSat from Sky card to any hotels around the country. It would cost Sky a lot more than £20 to take a civil case against me for the FreeSat for Sky card. So I not scared of getting a civil case.

    Obtaining services by deception Is this the law I would be breaking?
    No such offence as theft of service, even though it is quoted quite a lot on boards.

    Seem to be just as grey as copying DVD's, recording TV or buying foreign satellite cards, so you can watch the footy.


  • #17
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There is.

    What happens if you tap into Cable TV or ESB meter? It's Theft of a service.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0024/sec0009.html#zza24y1990s9

    You could be charged maybe with "Obtaining services by deception" too, a laywer would know.

    You are also breaking the rules by trying to argue that "Card sharing" is a Grey area. You are Promoting it, which is illegal and against Forum rules
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055001439
    What are we NOT allowed to talk about here?
    To simplify things, you cannot talk about anything illegal, or anything that can get Boards.ie Ltd into trouble.
    This includes:

    * "Hacking" or "Patching" or illegally obtained decoders not for public pay TV use of any kind, to enable free reception of any encrypted or scrambled signal whatsoever.
    * Cloning of viewing cards.
    * Sharing of viewing cards.
    * Forum trading of any sort.
    * Illegal firmware downloads

    Having a "Free sat from Sky" card is Grey area. Sharing it is not. Buy some more from Sky. (It's receiving stolen goods to buy them from 3rd party, and theft to sell it to a third party).

    The rules here and the Irish Laws are quite clear.


  • #18
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    The rules here and the Irish Laws are quite clear.

    The rules on boards are clear, but I didn't discuss the how to set up or promote card sharing, I only argued that it was a grey area, in certain situations.

    The Irish Laws are as clear as mud.


  • #19
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No, It's illegal if it's a PayTV card. The "Free sat from Sky card" is not a FTV card, it's a promotional PayTV card.

    Arguing that something that is illegal is a grey area encourages people to break the law. So you are promoting card sharing.


  • #20
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    No, It's illegal if it's a PayTV card. The "Free sat from Sky card" is not a FTV card, it's a promotional PayTV card.

    Arguing that something that is illegal is a grey area encourages people to break the law. So you are promoting card sharing.

    The FreeSat from Sky is a FTV card that can be upgraded to a pay TV.
    Unless you upgrade it, it is a FTV card. You were the only one to mention using card sharing with a pay TV card, not me.

    I only use the card for FTV, and have no intention on ever upgrading, and I won't be able to as it's not registered to my address.

    The FreeSat for Sky is the only FTV card available for the UK. I haven't used the card for card sharing.


    So is it illegal to card share within a FTV card such as FranSat within a LAN?


  • #21
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Sky card is not a "FTV" card, The FTV scheme is dead.

    "Free sat from Sky" is a once payment "pay Tv" card. Nothing to do with former FTV schemes.

    Ask Fransat about their card.


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  • #22
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    The FreeSat from Sky card can only be FTV in Ireland as it can't be upgraded.

    So FTV cards could be legal to card share!


  • #23
    Oat23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,364 ✭✭✭✭Oat23


    Isn't sharing your cards across a LAN not the same as using one of those SmartWi card splitters that are sold in many satellite shops?

    Are they illegal?


  • #24
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    As far as I'm concerned, it should be legal to card share within one's home.

    Can you imagine having to pay per every electrical point in you house, or having to pay separately for every internet enabled computer you had in your home!

    For electricity, the energy needs to be created, so they charge per megawatt, but it don't cost the satellite companies anything if you have a second receiver attached. Only the cost of the second receiver. So if you supply your own equipment it doesn't cost them anything.


  • #25
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You might as well say it should be legal to connect a box that's hacked and doesn't need a card at all to UPC cable or Sky because it doesn't cost extra.

    Or that you shouldn't have to pay a TV licence because it doesn't cost anyone extra for you to watch TV.

    You're a parasite if you believe it.


  • #26
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Oatesy23 wrote: »
    Isn't sharing your cards across a LAN not the same as using one of those SmartWi card splitters that are sold in many satellite shops?

    Are they illegal?
    They are not Legal.


  • #27
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    You might as well say it should be legal to connect a box that's hacked and doesn't need a card at all to UPC cable or Sky because it doesn't cost extra.

    Or that you shouldn't have to pay a TV licence because it doesn't cost anyone extra for you to watch TV.

    You're a parasite if you believe it.

    I pay my TV licence, one per household not by TV.

    If you pay for a service, you should be entitled to do with it what you like with the confines of your home.

    Next you'll be saying that people are parasites for having a second computer hooked up to their internet connection. It would be the case If the ISP's had there way, but technology was too quick for them.


  • #28
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The ISP allows you to use the connection for more than one of your computers, but not for the neighbour or street usually. I used to work for an ISP, so I'm familiar with them and your allegation is nonsense.

    It's not logic that counts or what you want. It's the terms and condition of the Service that counts. Cable TV and pay TV is not sold here like Internet access. It's strictly their card per box. Anything else breaks their terms for supplying the service as they charge per setbox and only permit their card to be used for one set-box.

    Either you are deliberately obtuse or a troll. This is clear in Irish Law, in UPC and Sky Terms and Conditions and the rules and FAQ of the Forums for Satellite, Foriegn satellite and Cable.

    None of your analogies or wishful thinking applies. It's not a FTV card, so there is no Grey area. It's illegal (criminal), as well as breaking the T&C and making you liable to civil suit. A civil suit will award costs to the injured party and other damages, not just the £20 or whatever a "Freesat from sky" card costs. You need to study up before using the Forums here as soap box to encourage people to break the law. You could be increasing the Damages that could be awarded.

    I have nowhere said it's legal to share a FTV card. It's possibly a grey area. But it's utterly pointless as real FTV cards are cheap or a small annual fee (depending on Country) and readily available to those intended to have them.


  • #29
    garrycann78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭garrycann78


    I'm with you on this one roger. Share away and watty i think parasite is a strong word to be using. Would that not be slander under "Irish law"


  • #30
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RogerThis wrote: »
    The FreeSat from Sky card can only be FTV in Ireland as it can't be upgraded.
    Nonsense
    If you obtained the "Freesat from Sky" card legitimately it can be used for a UK sub. An "Irish" Credit card will work too. You need a UK address. Of course you won't get TV3 and will only get RTE1, RTE2 and TG4 in N.I. postcodes.

    FTV is a scheme operated by various National Broadcasters to Fill In Terrestrial coverage that is Missing. The "Freesat from Sky" card is not such a scheme. The UK FTV scheme is finished. All the UK national Channels are on Freesat (FTA) to replace missing terrestrial coverage for the PSB mux.


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  • #31
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    In the FreeSat from Sky terms and condition:

    "Your viewing card
    You may only use your Viewing Card for private viewing purposes at your Address in the UK, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. For security reasons Viewing Cards may be inactivated from time to time. In this situation, if you wish to continue to receive all the encrypted Free to View channels, you will have to purchase a new viewing card at our then applicable standard charge. If possible, viewing card inactivations will be advertised on your television screen."

    "Viewing Card: means the card which will allow you to receive encrypted Free to View Channels when used with a Box."

    Sky seem to think it's a Free To View card.

    Why don't you?


  • #32
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    RogerThis wrote: »
    It still a grey issue, I don't distribute my FreeSat from Sky card to any hotels around the country. It would cost Sky a lot more than £20 to take a civil case against me for the FreeSat for Sky card. So I not scared of getting a civil case.

    You are half right there, Sky won't take a a civil case to recover the £20, they will take a civil case to make an example of you to others, cause if they win they can claim costs against you and that will be a lot more that £20.


  • #33
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    RogerThis wrote: »
    In the FreeSat from Sky terms and condition:

    "Your viewing card
    You may only use your Viewing Card for private viewing purposes at your Address in the UK, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. For security reasons Viewing Cards may be inactivated from time to time. In this situation, if you wish to continue to receive all the encrypted Free to View channels, you will have to purchase a new viewing card at our then applicable standard charge. If possible, viewing card inactivations will be advertised on your television screen."

    "Viewing Card: means the card which will allow you to receive encrypted Free to View Channels when used with a Box."

    Sky seem to think it's a Free To View card.

    Why don't you?

    Or it's a "PayTV Card" that allows one to view "encrypted Free to View channels"..


  • #34
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    You are half right there, Sky won't take a a civil case to recover the £20, they will take a civil case to make an example of you to others, cause if they win they can claim costs against you and that will be a lot more that £20.

    I can't see it getting to court!
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/civil-law/court_case


  • #35
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RogerThis wrote: »
    In the FreeSat from Sky terms and condition:

    "Your viewing card
    You may only use your Viewing Card for private viewing purposes at your Address in the UK, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. ......
    when used with a Box."

    Sky seem to think it's a Free To View card.

    Why don't you?
    No. They call it a Viewing Card.
    Note the bold bits. It's for one Box.

    Go on. Tell sky the card number and that you are sharing it on your LAN to your other receivers.


  • #36
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Or it's a "PayTV Card" that allows one to view "encrypted Free to View channels"..

    No mention of PayTV in the Terms and Conditions, where did you get the valuable information from?


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  • #37
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    No. They call it a Viewing Card.
    Note the bold bits. It's for one Box.

    Go on. Tell sky the card number and that you are sharing it on your LAN to your other receivers.

    Why oh why would I do that? It's a FTV card, I shouldn't be using it in Ireland, but it's still a FTV card. I know you have a wealth of information about satellites, but where does it say that it's not a FTV card, or that the UK FTA scheme has ended?


  • #38
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    RogerThis wrote: »
    I can't see it getting to court!
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/civil-law/court_case

    Sky can be very vindictive when going after those they see as card pirates.


  • #39
    azzeretti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭azzeretti


    Roger: your are violating you terms and conditions of your Sky contract as you quoted yourself, you can't use you sky card in any other box except a Sky one. And, as you know, you can't share from a Sky box, you need to remove it and put it elsewhere. Black and White really!


  • #40
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    azzeretti wrote: »
    Roger: your are violating you terms and conditions of your Sky contract as you quoted yourself, you can't use you sky card in any other box except a Sky one. And, as you know, you can't share from a Sky box, you need to remove it and put it elsewhere. Black and White really!

    To use the card in another satellite receiver, is breaking the Sky Terms and Conditions. So anybody using a sky card in any other box such as a dreambox in breaking the Terms and Conditions.
    People using the other foreign satellite card to watch the footy, are probably breaking their Terms and Conditions.
    Using the FreeSat From Sky card outside the UK is breaking the Terms and Conditions.

    But is card sharing with a FTV card a grey area?


  • #41
    Minstrel27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Minstrel27


    RogerThis wrote: »
    But is card sharing with a FTV card a grey area?

    How do you card share using a Sky box?


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  • #42
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    We are not allowed to discuss that. Sharing that information is illegal under Irish Law and discussing it is against the charter.

    But the answer is obvious.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/announcement.php?f=622
    ...

    DON'T Discuss hacking systems.
    For the avoidance of doubt: DON'T Discuss any methods that allow access to a pay-television service, other than taking out a legitimate, paid, subscription to the provider of that service.

    This includes use of ANY non-Cable company supplied decoder or Cable Digital receiver.

    Criminal Penalties for taking Satellite Pay TV or ANY Cable TV without paying the correct amount. (Use of a Dreambox Cable or ******* is contravention of T&C and if used to get "extra" TV a criminal offence anywhere in EU).
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0024/sec0009.html#zza24y1990s9
    1990 regulations:
    Prison up to 2 years and/or Fine up to 20,000 under theft of service/install of Pirate Equipment

    AND/OR
    European Communities (Conditional Access) Regulations, 2000

    (9) A person who, without reasonable excuse, fails to comply with any request or requirement made by an authorised officer under this Regulation is guilty of an offence.


    (10) A person who obstructs or interferes with an authorised officer in the exercise of his or her powers under this Regulation or gives an authorised officer information which is false or misleading is guilty of an offence.
    6. (1) A person guilty of an offence under these Regulations shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both.
    DON'T Discuss methods of accessing pay-TV systems, the content of which is not meant to be viewed in the Republic of Ireland or the United Kingdom. .


    New July 2009: DON'T Discuss methods of circumventing regional restrictions on streaming media services such as (but not limited to) RTÉ Player, BBC iPlayer, Sky Player etc.


  • #43
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    Minstrel27 wrote: »
    How do you card share using a Sky box?

    Minstrel, you should know better, than to ask that!


    To sum up:

    1. Internet card sharing is illegal
    2. Discussing how to implement card sharing is illegal under Irish law and breaks boards rules.
    3. Using a FreeSat from Sky card outside the UK violating the Terms and Conditions
    4. People that violate Terms and Conditions are parasites
    5. FreeSat from Sky card is a PayTV card [citation needed]
    6. FreeSat from Sky card is a FTV card according to Sky's Terms and Conditions
    7. Card sharing with a FTV card with a LAN is a grey area


  • #44
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    RogerThis wrote: »
    2. Discussing how to implement card sharing is illegal under Irish law
    Is it??? I thought we had free speech in this country.

    Discussing how to copy CDs, DVDs, software, etc isn't illegal?


  • #45
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Is it??? I thought we had free speech in this country.

    Discussing how to copy CDs, DVDs, software, etc isn't illegal?

    You'll find that discussing how to make a bomb is illegal too.

    Discussing how to copy CDs, DVDs, software, etc isn't illegal. Even doing it may not be illegal.

    Hacking PayTV systems and "enabling" the hacking of Pay TV is illegal in Ireland. Discussing how to card share could be construed as "enabling" the hacking of Pay TV.

    There is probably no difference in Irish law between "Internet Card Sharing" and "card sharing" on a LAN.

    You'd want to seek expert legal advice. Especially folks that want to proclaim something is OK when it may not be.

    Also there is limits to free speech in all countries and stricter limits to "free speech" on Boards.

    Take it to the Admins if you don't believe me. Read the Forum charter and boards.ie rules.


  • #46
    eamonnq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭eamonnq


    RogerThis wrote: »
    Is it illegal to card share within a LAN?

    I have a FreeSat from Sky card for Channel 4 HD and the extra Five channels. I was thinking of using this card to card share between two linux boxes within my house. Would I be breaking the law by doing so?

    It seems like a grey area to me!

    Twas always the way on the web, you ask a question, you get an answer and if you don't like the answer you get, you argue it.

    You asked a question, you got your answer!!!


    Best of luck with whatever you decide to do, as I am sure that any answer given on here will not affect your decision!!!


  • #47
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RogerThis wrote: »
    Minstrel, you should know better, than to ask that!



    4. People that violate Terms and Conditions are parasites

    6. FreeSat from Sky card is a FTV card according to Sky's Terms and Conditions
    No, people that take things that are paid for by everyone else is a parasite.

    No, Sky says it's a "Viewing Card" that decrypts FTV channels.

    The FTV scheme in UK is over.     Fiver, FiveUS and Sky3 are not traditional FTV channels it's up to sky which channels it enables for a once off payment on a viewing card. Sky is a PayTV operator. It's a PayTV card as you can use it for a UK subscription. Ask an expert lawyer if "sharing" it is legal apart from copyright issues and Sky T&C.

    The past opinion is that Card Sharing is simply an easier way to hack PayTV encryption as a real card is used. The scheme was outlined many years ago in Analogue era and it was only lack of LANs and Broadband that prevented deployment.


  • #48
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    watty wrote: »
    You'll find that discussing how to make a bomb is illegal too.
    watty wrote: »
    You'd want to seek expert legal advice.
    Watty, you're making sweeping statements about the law without any proof, and then saying seek legal advice.

    You can talk about pretty much anything in this country, as far as I am concerned. No topic of conversation is illegal. This isn't Iran.
    watty wrote: »
    Also there is limits to free speech in all countries and stricter limits to "free speech" on Boards.

    Take it to the Admins if you don't believe me. Read the Forum charter and boards.ie rules.
    Boards rules have nothing to do with the law!


  • #49
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    watty wrote: »
    No, people that take things that are paid for by everyone else is a parasite.
    Including anyone that watches FTA or FTV British TV then, as we are not UK licence payers?

    Watty, I think you're over analysing this whole topic.


  • #50
    garrycann78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 147 ✭✭garrycann78


    Watty, do your posts have to contain legal jargon all the time. I think you are pushing out legal quotes with no basis for some of them at all. maybe on boards its not allowed to discuss cs or any pay TV hack but i sure as hell will discuss these anywhere i want. as mentioned its not the middle east we're in. if i didnt know better i would assume you are a wannabe solicitor.


  • #51
    RogerThis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭RogerThis


    watty wrote: »
    No, Sky says it's a "Viewing Card" that decrypts FTV channels.

    A viewing card that decrypts FTV channels is a FTV card.

    T&C's for FreeSat from Sky

    5. Law and Geographical limits
    (a) This agreement is governed by English law. Any court proceedings relating to disputes arising under this agreement must be dealt with by the courts in England and Wales or any other United Kingdom court that can lawfully deal with the case.

    So violating the T&C's don't apply in the Republic?


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