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Cheque issues no contracts back

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  • 29-04-2019 5:50pm
    #1
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    So we have bought a house...... well hopefully!

    We have purchased a 2nd band house where the vendors are living outside of Ireland.

    We signed contracts and they were posted back to them to sign with a close date. The close date has now passed, approaching 2nd week now. They said delay was down to family problem and now are in the post.

    The problem we have is that the Cheque has already been issued to our solicitor and our first repayment is due this week. Is there anything we can do to delay it, we have the money there to pay it but just the fact we have no key yet.

    Also say the vendor doesn’t send back the contracts signed on their side what do we do with the Cheque as it is on that specific house? Do we give it back and change to a different house.

    Our solicitor is useless and we can’t get in contact with him by phone or email. Our main info is from EA.

    Any advice much appreciated


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    #2
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    bri007 wrote: »
    Hi all,

    So we have bought a house...... well hopefully!

    We have purchased a 2nd band house where the vendors are living outside of Ireland.

    We signed contracts and they were posted back to them to sign with a close date. The close date has now passed, approaching 2nd week now. They said delay was down to family problem and now are in the post.

    The problem we have is that the Cheque has already been issued to our solicitor and our first repayment is due this week. Is there anything we can do to delay it, we have the money there to pay it but just the fact we have no key yet.

    Also say the vendor doesn’t send back the contracts signed on their side what do we do with the Cheque as it is on that specific house? Do we give it back and change to a different house.

    Our solicitor is useless and we can’t get in contact with him by phone or email. Our main info is from EA.

    Any advice much appreciated


    Firstly speak to your solicitor. Can I ask when you mean cheque to you mean the contract deposit? Sellers don’t sign contracts without the contact deposit paid so you won’t get that back. Or do you mean cheque as in mortgage? I presume funds have not been drawn down since you don’t have signed contracts in place from both sides.


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    #3
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    Hi thanks for the reply.

    No our solicitor sent the Cheque Requisition form to our bank and had a speficic date for drawdown.

    The drawdown from the bank (the Cheque is now with our solicitor) so he has the full mortgage amount and we are paying it back this week as it’s first payment due?

    We can’t get through to our solicitor is this normal procedure to get Cheque before the vendor fully signed contracts?

    I’m worried now!

    Dolbhad wrote: »
    Firstly speak to your solicitor. Can I ask when you mean cheque to you mean the contract deposit? Sellers don’t sign contracts without the contact deposit paid so you won’t get that back. Or do you mean cheque as in mortgage? I presume funds have not been drawn down since you don’t have signed contracts in place from both sides.


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    #4
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    bri007 wrote: »
    Hi thanks for the reply.

    No our solicitor sent the Cheque Requisition form to our bank and had a speficic date for drawdown.

    The drawdown from the bank (the Cheque is now with our solicitor) so he has the full mortgage amount and we are paying it back this week as it’s first payment due?

    We can’t get through to our solicitor is this normal procedure to get Cheque before the vendor fully signed contracts?

    I’m worried now!

    As far as I’m aware banks no long issue cheques. They would do an electric transfer into the solicitors account. My bank told me first mortgage payment would be a month after drawdown depending on date set for direct debit. You can have funds returned to the bank but it’s very difficult cause you have to ensure the bank know your not paying back and mortgage and it can take 5 working days (according to a sheet in our loan pack) for funds to be sent back and then to be requested again could add another week another it and then you could delaying the sale cause you don’t have the money. Might be worth paying the mortgage for 2 weeks. It’s a pain as seems timing wasn’t in line. Ideally solicitor shouldn’t have requested funds unless signed contracts were back so it’s all binding. But could be a case that if sellers couldn’t get in any earlier to sign contracts and closing documents that contracts and closing documents are sent in one go. But you’ll have to keep trying to talk to solicitor as they can’t close until they have all the paperwork so they put pressure on solicitor than auctioneer


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    #5
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    SOunds all premature to me


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    #6
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    The dates on those documents are based on the assumption that everything goes according to plan. They will be changed by the bank and solicitor based on when the sale actually is complete.

    You will not start repaying the loan until the sale has been finalised. The sale wont be finalised until your solicitor receives the contract and communicates with the sellers solicitor to confirm both signed contracts are identical.

    The solicitor only arranges the transfer of the mortgage money from the bank to the seller once all documentation is complete.


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    #7
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    The bank rang us last week to say the first payment is due on the 2nd of May though?

    The signed contracts on the vendors side have not been sent back yet but the funds have gone to our solicitor!


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    #8
    Baby01032012
    Registered Users Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    Funds have gone to your solicitor and now you cant contact them....oh oh!

    I hope im not reading too much into this.

    As said above funds would not be drawn down until all documentation in place. So it appears the solicitor has acted hastily deliberately or not...


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    #9
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    I finally got through to our solicitor.

    He is blaming us on this, he said I told him to order the Cheque so it will get here quicker and no delays!

    I of course denied this to him the. He said he would send the Cheque back and take the amount we already paid on the mortgage out of it but note this could mean the whole mortgage falls through! Totally lost now, it looks like we just have to bite the bullet and pay it on the 2nd and hope the contracts come back signed this week.

    Surely this is what I’m paying a solicitor for....


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    Funds have gone to your solicitor and now you cant contact them....oh oh!

    I hope im not reading too much into this.

    As said above funds would not be drawn down until all documentation in place. So it appears the solicitor has acted hastily deliberately or not...


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    #10
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    That is why a solicitor should be chosen by word of mouth, not on the basis of a google search.


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    #11
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    bri007 wrote: »
    I finally got through to our solicitor.

    He is blaming us on this, he said I told him to order the Cheque so it will get here quicker and no delays!

    I of course denied this to him the. He said he would send the Cheque back and take the amount we already paid on the mortgage out of it but note this could mean the whole mortgage falls through! Totally lost now, it looks like we just have to bite the bullet and pay it on the 2nd and hope the contracts come back signed this week.

    Surely this is what I’m paying a solicitor for....

    I’m still confused - banks don’t issue loan cheques anymore. It’s been done away with so your solicitor got a transfer of funds into his client account. Funds can be returned but it’s gets really messy as you have to make sure the bank know the mortgage is not being redeemed etc. So it can delay things and would better that you hold funds and pay the mortgage. It was irresponsible of solicitor to allow funds being drawn down without signed contracts as the seller could still technically pull out. Good news is banks won’t like a solicitor holding funds in the account for long so tell your solicitor to demand contracts back ASAP. You can’t do much until you have contracts signed as can’t issue a completion notice until there are signed. But try to use the excuse you have funds as leverage and can’t be held forever so if they don’t close now, it can put a delay on things. But this has to come from your solicitor to their solicitor.


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    #12
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Sounds very strange.

    No idea how the bank released funds without contracts being signed. For example the seller might pull out of the sale and you would still have received the funding without purchasing a property. Very odd.


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    #13
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Sounds very strange.

    No idea how the bank released funds without contracts being signed. For example the seller might pull out of the sale and you would still have received the funding without purchasing a property. Very odd.

    I assume the bank assumes if solicitor request funds, everything is in place. I don’t think the bank require sight of signed contracts but expect once funds are issued the sale should close quickly afterwards. I say the solicitor jumped the gun on this. Even if they thought it would close by the date of the request for funds, they should have notified the bank they weren’t ready for funds and to hold them.


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    #14
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    I would strongly advise you seriously consider anything other than returning the funds to the bank, at least until you know where you stand. Normally drawdown is complex and protracted.


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    #15
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    The money went out today for the first payment, can we still send the money back to the bank?

    We are still in the dark with closing date and our solicitor is getting irritate with us when we ring him.

    Not sure what to do now, EA said it will go through just some complications


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    #16
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    3DataModem wrote: »
    I would strongly advise you seriously consider anything other than returning the funds to the bank, at least until you know where you stand. Normally drawdown is complex and protracted.

    I agree. I would only be returning money to bank if sellers pull out of the sale. It’s not easy to send money back and drawn down again. I’d be afraid the bank would consider it redeeming the mortgage. And may look for extra paperwork on drawn down. Just pay the first mortgage payment


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    #17
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,394 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Dolbhad wrote: »
    I agree. I would only be returning money to bank if sellers pull out of the sale. It’s not easy to send money back and drawn down again. I’d be afraid the bank would consider it redeeming the mortgage. And may look for extra paperwork on drawn down. Just pay the first mortgage payment
    That's fair advice but the OP is in a ridiculous situation - which appears to have been brought on by poor advice/timing by their solicitor.
    If the contract doesn't come back signed - they are in a woeful spot!


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    #18
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    kippy wrote: »
    That's fair advice but the OP is in a ridiculous situation - which appears to have been brought on by poor advice/timing by their solicitor.
    If the contract doesn't come back signed - they are in a woeful spot!


    Completely agreee - solicitors fault but sending money back isn’t an option unless sellers aren’t going ahead. Least auctioneer says it will go ahead - just a delay. But a strong worded complaint to solicitor should go in. Threaten to hold them responsible for the mortgage payment or something to get them to put pressure on sellers to complete.


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    #19
    bri007
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭bri007


    We did that with our solicitor and he threatened to send the money back to the bank and got annoyed on the phone. He said he was trying to speed things up on our end that’s why the money came.
    Dolbhad wrote: »
    Completely agreee - solicitors fault but sending money back isn’t an option unless sellers aren’t going ahead. Least auctioneer says it will go ahead - just a delay. But a strong worded complaint to solicitor should go in. Threaten to hold them responsible for the mortgage payment or something to get them to put pressure on sellers to complete.


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    #20
    Dolbhad
    Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    bri007 wrote: »
    We did that with our solicitor and he threatened to send the money back to the bank and got annoyed on the phone. He said he was trying to speed things up on our end that’s why the money came.

    I’d keep the funds where they are but keep annoying him until it closes. And ask for a definite closing date and a reason why the delay. Best better may be auctioneer if they are good to get it moved along.


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    #21
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    bri007 wrote: »
    The money went out today for the first payment, can we still send the money back to the bank?

    Don't send the money back. The bank are going to be super annoyed with your solicitor, and this may complicate things when you go to draw down again (also they may charge for this).
    bri007 wrote: »
    We are still in the dark with closing date and our solicitor is getting irritate with us when we ring him.

    Your solicitor screwed up. He has most likely given several undertakings to the bank about contracts, life cover, etc that are untrue. This is why he is pissed off, he knows the bank are going to be super unhappy with him, plenty of solicitors are reported to the law society for false undertakings.
    bri007 wrote: »
    Not sure what to do now, EA said it will go through just some complications

    Just get contracts signed, and get house closed. Pay your mortgage. You are not really out of pocket, just paying it off a little earlier than planned. If things drag on for a long period, then your solicitor has a big problem.


    Again; things can only get worse by returning the money, not better.


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    #22
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭C3PO


    This is really bizarre! I hope, for the OPs sake, that the sale goes through. If not, they are in a right mess. Even if it does work out ok, I would consider reporting the solicitor to the law society - this is the sort of situation that you are paying him to avoid!


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    #23
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,944 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    bri007 wrote: »
    He said he was trying to speed things up

    Most likely he gave false undertakings (i.e. ones he wasn't 100% certain he could comply with) to the bank to facilitate drawdown. There is no other way to get drawdown from a bank these days.

    Like this guy:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/solicitor-struck-off-by-high-court-over-false-information-to-bank-1.3458412

    And this guy:

    https://galwaydaily.com/courts/galway-solicitor-struck-off-by-high-court-president-for-misconduct/

    Get the sale closed, press the auctioneer. Your solicitor is already sufficiently motivated to get it closed ASAP no doubt :)


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    #24
    mcbert
    Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭mcbert


    We sold our house a few months ago, but we learnt during the process that the buyers solicitor had requested the funds from their bank and then had to return it, as it was all done far too early. We put it down to their solicitor not really paying much attention to the details... few weeks later they got the funds again and sale closed normally. Very odd.


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    #25
    kitten_k
    Registered Users Posts: 6,046 ✭✭✭kitten_k


    Did you get your sales closed OP?


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