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Irish directed film on James Bulger comes under criticism for humanising the killers

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Comments

  • #52
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    manonboard wrote: »
    May I ask bambi,
    how do you imagine that to be true? Surely what ever things that you describe as evil.. have a cause?
    If not, is the only other alternative that you think it spontaneously appears.. if so.. arent you just as likely to be a victim of it, or someone close you know?

    To me, evil is just a word people use to attribute to a dark prescence that can't exist as just a regular part of us.. and i think its used as a way to say "I am NOT evil.. look, i can point to others that ARE evil.. so i am NOT"

    Whatever made these children do what they did.. They were children.. Those that came before them create those circumstances.. unless we are saying that they were born evil as babies? I don't believe babies can be evil.

    Can we forgo the first year philosophy student beard scratching and strawman carry on?


  • #53
    King George VI
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,346 ✭✭✭King George VI


    They are humans. Making them out to be evil monsters takes away from the fact that a human being is capable of committing atrocious and horrific crimes.


  • #54
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    nthclare wrote: »
    Where did I mention politics ?

    You're the one bringing up politics, I've yet to see where I brought politics into this.

    Ok - so you were referring to Left-handed people with your comment about lefties were you?
    That was in no way a reference to the traditional political divide of Left and Right was it?

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Everyone - when nthclare stated that child murderers are defended by people always from the left he meant citog's - not people of a left-wing political persuasion. Right-handed people condemn them/left-handed people defend them. Apparently.

    Do me a favour :rolleyes:.


  • #55
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    begbysback wrote: »
    You have spoken well of your son, if I may ask a difficult question - if you lived on the same road as the 2 killers, and your son was 10 and wondered off with the other(s), if the other boy had an influence over your son do you think at 10 years old he could have stood up for himself in such a horrific situation?

    My son always had good intuition and hung out with his dog, looked after his farm animals a lot and had only a few friends.

    He avoided kid's who were destructive or nasty, he was lucky enough to live in a rural setting with kid's who had similar expectations as himself.

    So I don't think he'd have hung out with those kid's, we've a relative living in a fairly tough neighborhood and he just kept to himself when I'd suggest he go out and play with the kid's on the green he tried once but didn't like their attitude.

    So he was never swayed by that, he'd have no problems telling them to **** off if he didn't like them.

    I was fairly good at standing up for myself too, got a few beatings and gave a few.

    Not ashamed of being a bit of a scrapper when I was between 10 and 16 grew out of it, there's always a tougher lad..


  • #56
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Ok - so you were referring to Left-handed people with your comment about lefties were you?
    That was in no way a reference to the traditional political divide of Left and Right was it?

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Everyone - when nthclare stated that child murderers are defended by people always from the left he meant citog's - not people of a left-wing political persuasion. Right-handed people condemn them/left-handed people defend them. Apparently.

    Do me a favour :rolleyes:.

    So you're bringing everyone into this are you, can you not just leave the discussion between you and I ?


  • #57
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Klonker


    I'm not going to say it's right or wrong for the film maker to make this. There has been many a film and documentary made on gruesome murders and will continue to happen. I don't agree with his reasoning to make this, to "learn" something. The authorities are the ones to learn and I think they will have already done so. What am I going to learn sitting on my couch and what good will it be to me? It's just a lame excuse.


  • #58
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,204 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    manonboard wrote: »
    tayto, as a thought experiment. May i ask,
    if your own lads for some reason suddenly had less empathy, either due to a nuerological change, a injury, or a immune system response (some biological trigger).. would you class them as evil? They wouldnt have the ability to make the same decisions as you and I. They would do things that appear evil because they dont feel empathy.
    If the answer is no, then i dont think they psychopaths of any type can be called evil consistently since they obviously have experienced something, likely biological, to end up in the same circumstance.

    I'm pretty curious in a genuine way. I have autism and when I was younger it took me a very long time to develop empathy to a level like everyone else. The feelings and responses seem so 'far away' that it was too energy consuming/time consuming to surface them. So I certainly did things that I wouldnt do now because i empathize alot more now. I theorized when younger i could be evil.. but later reasoned it's not possible for the reasons stated above. Just curious. Hope its ok that i asked.

    The difference is that you didn't act on your thoughts and kill someone.They did. I don't know what it takes to murder or what feelings they had as they planned and executed accordingly and took pleasure in the suffering of the child.
    If it was one of my own who committed an act like that I don't think I could forgive them but if someone harmed one of my grandchildren I have a feeling I could carry out a similar act on them as punishment.


  • #59
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Nobody is actually defending what was done to James, in fairness, but some are pushing the responsibility from his killers - and I can understand the anger.

    Yes, going by well known cases alone, it appears an awful upbringing with lack of parental bond, can contribute to horrific abuse towards others, and murder. But the vast majority of people who experience such upbringings don't do anything like what was done to that little boy.

    Some people are innately bad - yes, they are human. Some humans are awful people. It's not all nurture. They're the minority but we all know them, and the better their upbringing, the more boundaries and fear of consequence they'll have, but they'll still do sh1tty things. Nothing wrong with calling this evil - it's just a description. Take away those boundaries and fear of consequence, and what they're capable of increases in severity.

    The above seems applicable to Venables - look what that ****er has been doing in adulthood? You can't grow out of that kind of personality disorder.

    Going along with the crowd does unfortunately cause kids to do terrible things - I think the other lad is more someone who has remorse for what he did.

    If children all had loving, stable upbringings, I think there would be far fewer social problems, but it was still just those boys and nobody else who inflicted such horror on and ended the life of that child. Someone said the 25th anniversary is coming up - it's actually the 26th. Watched a documentary last year, learning the full details for the first time... and there are no words really.


  • #60
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,407 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Brentley Obedient Myth wrote: »
    Nobody is actually defending what was done to James, in fairness, but some are pushing the responsibility from his killers - and I can understand the anger.

    Yes, going by well known cases alone, it appears an awful upbringing with lack of parental bond, can contribute to horrific abuse towards others, and murder. But the vast majority of people who experience such upbringings don't do anything like what was done to that little boy.

    Some people are innately bad - yes, they are human. Some humans are awful people. It's not all nurture. They're the minority but we all know them, and the better their upbringing, the more boundaries and fear of consequence they'll have, but they'll still do sh1tty things. Nothing wrong with calling this evil - it's just a description. Take away those boundaries and fear of consequence, and what they're capable of increases in severity.

    The above seems applicable to Venables - look what that ****er has been doing in adulthood? You can't grow out of that kind of personality disorder.

    Going along with the crowd does unfortunately cause kids to do terrible things - I think the other lad is more someone who has remorse for what he did.

    If children all had loving, stable upbringings, I think there would be far fewer social problems, but it was still just those boys and nobody else who inflicted such horror on and ended the life of that child. Someone said the 25th anniversary is coming up - it's actually the 26th. Watched a documentary last year, learning the full details for the first time... and there are no words really.
    You have expressed, most articulately, my thoughts exactly.


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  • #61
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    nthclare wrote: »
    So you're bringing everyone into this are you, can you not just leave the discussion between you and I ?

    You don't understand the ethical dilemma you have placed me in.
    I am right-handed.
    I don't subscribe to the hang 'em high without judge or jury philosophy.
    Is it because I am really left-handed?

    But seriously - this has nothing to do with political persuasion.
    Unless you think everyone involved in Beheavoural Science is left-wing.

    That hotbed of radical socialism the FBI employs over 35,000 people to study violent crime and those that commit them. In fact they now track animal abuse cases not because they are PC spouting lefties, but because there is a proven co-relation between abusing animals and violent crimes.

    Commie central aka the RCC has produced reams of excuses for the child abusers in it's ranks - and protected many of them enabling them to continue their abuse.

    This is beyond political divisions.

    Don't be that person who cannot see beyond their own political prejudices and try and score tasteless points. It diminishes you.

    Those you dismissed here as "lefties" are saying learn to prevent - can't learn if you don't try and understand. Can't understand if they've been hung high or the key thrown away.


  • #62
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    begbysback wrote: »
    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Do you think the filmmaker should have informed Jamie's parents that he was making a film about their murdered child?

    He did, whether that was by daytime tv or previous I don’t know. Either way they were never going to approve of such an alternative perception.

    Like I said, the emotional cost is all on the family.
    No he must certainly did not. Hence why denise Fergus is on the same programme tomorrow morning. !


  • #63
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    seamus wrote: »
    Vincent Lambe is a highly regarded director, and a far cry from an attention seeker.

    The problem here is that the James Bulger murder is a sacred cow of the British tabloid class, and any discussion of the murderers which doesn't characterise them with horns and pitchforks will have them wailing about how it's "too soft" on them and "humanising" them.

    Believing the murderers to be just randomly "evil" and beyond explanation helps them avoid uncomfortable truths.
    Maybe your amazing icon should learn a bit of empathy!


  • #64
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,204 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    King George VI wrote: »
    They are humans. Making them out to be evil monsters takes away from the fact that a human being is capable of committing atrocious and horrific crimes.

    They are still evil monsters.


  • #65
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    You don't understand the ethical dilemma you have placed me in.
    I am right-handed.
    I don't subscribe to the hang 'em high without judge or jury philosophy.
    Is it because I am really left-handed?

    But seriously - this has nothing to do with political persuasion.
    Unless you think everyone involved in Beheavoural Science is left-wing.

    That hotbed of radical socialism the FBI employs over 35,000 people to study violent crime and those that commit them. In fact they now track animal abuse cases not because they are PC spouting lefties, but because there is a proven co-relation between abusing animals and violent crimes.

    Commie central aka the RCC has produced reams of excuses for the child abusers in it's ranks - and protected many of them enabling them to continue their abuse.

    This is beyond political divisions.

    Don't be that person who cannot see beyond their own political prejudices and try and score tasteless points. It diminishes you.

    Those you dismissed here as "lefties" are saying learn to prevent - can't learn if you don't try and understand. Can't understand if they've been hung high or the key thrown away.

    It all depends on how you try to prevent and understand.

    Try isn't good enough.

    Trying is a start, but as they say God loves a tryer or something to that effect.

    An accomplishment is something worthy of appraisal, trying is like admitting defeat.

    I suppose in the lefties world we're all winner's.
    That's why I don't like the liberal lefties.
    All steam but full of holes....not enough traction and no attraction.

    I've Zero tollerence for naunces and child killer's.

    If the evidence is screaming you in the face, who needs a drawn out trial, burn them at the stake....or something similar....

    Anyone who commits a violent crime or abuses kids usually has no moral compass.

    Seriously do you really think a child killer or abuser is going to be totally honest with a crime psychoilgist ?

    Amen to that


  • #66
    Demonique
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭Demonique


    nthclare wrote: »
    You'll have the usual pattern of people defending these evil bastard's, always from the left.

    I seen something a while back about lefties saying paedophiles are another sexual orientation, and how hard it must be to be rejected by society for being a naunce.

    If society ever say's it's ok to be a naunce or child killer then Armageddon has surely arrived.

    They don't belong here, they're sick twisted and need to be all rounded up and strung up by their nuts and bolts....

    It's actually paedophiles themselves who are saying this, I've never met a person on the left who said this. Paedos call themselves MAPs (minor attracted person) and whine about being hard done by online


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  • #67
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Maybe your amazing icon should learn a bit of empathy!

    I'm with Seamus on this one. By declaring someone evil and not investigating what made them evil (if anything), then we are losing out on the potential to learn from this incident and hopefully preventing this type of thing from happening in the future.

    Yes, many people turn out to be monsters, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to learn why they became monsters. And that can only happen by asking difficult questions.

    The above statement doesn't mean that I don't have empathy for Jamie Bolger's parents by the way.


  • #68
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    seamus wrote: »
    Vincent Lambe is a highly regarded director, and a far cry from an attention seeker.

    The problem here is that the James Bulger murder is a sacred cow of the British tabloid class, and any discussion of the murderers which doesn't characterise them with horns and pitchforks will have them wailing about how it's "too soft" on them and "humanising" them.

    Believing the murderers to be just randomly "evil" and beyond explanation helps them avoid uncomfortable truths.

    Spot on about the 'sacred cow' theory.

    Anything that sheds light on these events is to be welcomed as long as it is responsible and sincere.


  • #69
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Demonique wrote: »
    It's actually paedophiles themselves who are saying this, I've never met a person on the left who said this. Paedos call themselves MAPs (minor attracted person) and whine about being hard done by online

    That's the tip of the iceberg.


  • #70
    Demonique
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭Demonique


    nthclare wrote: »
    Where did I mention politics ?

    You're the one bringing up politics, I've yet to see where I brought politics into this.

    This is the post where you brought up politics - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109023408&postcount=13

    Saying 'I seen something a while back about lefties saying paedophiles are another sexual orientation' is bringing up politics


  • #71
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Demonique wrote: »
    This is the post where you brought up politics - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109023408&postcount=13

    Saying 'I seen something a while back about lefties saying paedophiles are another sexual orientation' is bringing up politics

    That poster is so annoying.


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  • #72
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Maybe your amazing icon should learn a bit of empathy!

    I'm with Seamus on this one. By declaring someone evil and not investigating what made them evil (if anything), then we are losing out on the potential to learn from this incident and hopefully preventing this type of thing from happening in the future.

    Yes, many people turn out to be monsters, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to learn why they became monsters. And that can only happen by asking difficult questions.

    The above statement doesn't mean that I don't have empathy for Jamie Bolger's parents by the way.
    So do you agree that the " filmmaker " should have contacted the murdered childs parents to inform them that a film he had made about their child was up for an oscar award. ?


  • #73
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    That poster is so annoying.

    Attack the post not the poster, isn't that within the remit of board's.

    Nice try though


  • #74
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Lefties are not saying pedophiles are a sexual orientation.
    Pedophiles are the ones trying to push that agenda.
    I would like to see proof of this alleged lefty independent group concerned with protecting the "sexual orientation" of child molesters.


  • #75
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    nthclare wrote: »
    Attack the post not the poster, isn't that within the remit of board's.

    Nice try though

    Where did that poster attack you?


  • #76
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    "Filmmaker " doing the rounds. Apparently hes on today FM at 3.45pm today.


  • #77
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    nthclare wrote: »
    It all depends on how you try to prevent and understand.

    Try isn't good enough.

    Trying is a start, but as they say God loves a tryer or something to that effect.

    An accomplishment is something worthy of appraisal, trying is like admitting defeat.

    I suppose in the lefties world we're all winner's.
    That's why I don't like the liberal lefties.
    All steam but full of holes....not enough traction and no attraction.

    I've Zero tollerence for naunces and child killer's.

    If the evidence is screaming you in the face, who needs a drawn out trial, burn them at the stake....or something similar....

    Anyone who commits a violent crime or abuses kids usually has no moral compass.

    Seriously do you really think a child killer or abuser is going to be totally honest with a crime psychoilgist ?

    Amen to that

    You can't help yourself can you?

    I'm done talking to someone who simply cannot avoid trying to use the death of an innocent child to score political points.

    What you are doing disgusts me.


  • #78
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    amcalester wrote: »
    Where did that poster attack you?

    I'm responding with satire, it wasn't an attack. It's just they couldn't really approach me directly.

    So they highlight their annoyance about my post rather than the subject matter....

    I see the Liberals are out in force lol


  • #79
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    So do you agree that the " filmmaker " should have contacted the murdered childs parents to inform them that a film he had made about their child was up for an oscar award. ?

    There was no need to contact Jamie Bolger's parents. That's what I think. Any contact with the parents looking for comments etc. is upsetting and more than likely unnecessary.

    My point was more related to the making of the film.


  • #80
    razorblunt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    The Director knew what he was doing and that this would get the exposure he also wanted.
    He doesn't care about showing them.


  • #81
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There was no need to contact Jamie Bolger's parents. That's what I think. Any contact with the parents looking for comments etc. is upsetting and more than likely unnecessary.

    My point was more related to the making of the film.

    I think giving the parents of a murdered child a heads-up that the whole saga was going to be brought into the public eye again in the name of understanding - though what a film maker can add to understanding that the psychiatrists trained in these matters couldn't is debatable - is the very least courtesy that they deserve. They've been through enough without being blindsided like that.


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  • #82
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    So do you agree that the " filmmaker " should have contacted the murdered childs parents to inform them that a film he had made about their child was up for an oscar award. ?

    There was no need to contact Jamie Bolger's parents. That's what I think. Any contact with the parents looking for comments etc. is upsetting and more than likely unnecessary.

    My point was more related to the making of the film.
    Well jamies mum is on tomorrow morning. Wonder how she feels about "filmmaker " making a film about her poor murdered son and not even having the manners to inform her. Still I'm sure he'll get an easy ride on Irish radio. Well done to Ben Sheppard earlier for pointing out to "filmmaker " what every caring parent was thinking anyway.


  • #83
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    nthclare wrote: »
    I'm responding with satire, it wasn't an attack. It's just they couldn't really approach me directly.

    So they highlight their annoyance about my post rather than the subject matter....

    I see the Liberals are out in force lol

    Ah gotcha, my apologies. You see, poor satire is easily mistaken for stupidity.


  • #84
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    You can't help yourself can you?

    I'm done talking to someone who simply cannot avoid trying to use the death of an innocent child to score political points.

    What you are doing disgusts me.

    It's all about you isn't it, read through my other responses to the subject....

    I mentioned nothing about politics, it was you who came in all blazing about me saying lefties are political..
    Lefties are not particularly the most moral people now are they.

    You're the one who's saying I'm using the death of a child to score political points.

    The mere mention of lefties here brought you into the wrong intrepid journey you dicided to take the debate.

    I was once a leftie liberal myself and it was an experience which was I suppose enlightening.

    You're the first person to say a leftie is political, I don't think leftism is political.
    I think it's just people who see the world through tinted glasses, they're not very liberal really.

    Actually they're far from it.

    A liberal person would be very easygoing, mind their own business and not be out protesting and bouncing off wall's.

    YouTube is bursting with funny clips of sjw fails, educated idiot's who have no life other than being walking contradictions.

    Call a spade a spade....


  • #85
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    razorblunt wrote: »
    The Director knew what he was doing and that this would get the exposure he also wanted.
    He doesn't care about showing them.
    Doesn't care about parents of a murdered child. Says it all !


  • #86
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,642 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    nthclare wrote: »
    I see the Liberals are out in force lol

    Mod: nthclare, don't post in this thread.

    Reason: Need I elaborate? Pff


  • #87
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Not sure if it's been mentioned , but people should read Denise Fergus' (James mother) book and her thoughts of the case and the 2 lads. She talks about their attitudes during the trial and their treatment while they were in the system (wont say locked up because that implies jail, they were in a care home of sorts afaik )

    Its available as an audiobook too for those like me that listen in the car/work.


  • #88
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Not sure if it's been mentioned , but people should read Denise Fergus' (James mother) book and her thoughts of the case and the 2 lads. She talks about their attitudes during the trial and their treatment while they were in the system (wont say locked up because that implies jail, they were in a care home of sorts afaik )

    Its available as an audiobook too for those like me that listen in the car/work.
    2 lads......2 murderers ?


  • #89
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    nthclare wrote: »
    Attack the post not the poster, isn't that within the remit of board's.

    Nice try though



    calls other posters lefties

    then follows up with this

    nthclare wrote: »

    I suppose in the lefties world we're all winner's.
    That's why I don't like the liberal lefties.
    All steam but full of holes....not enough traction and no attraction.

    Youve some head in the clouds fella


  • #90
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,912 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    2 lads......2 murderers ?

    When you climb down off the outrage box you will notice that the film isn't implying that they are not murderers.


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  • #91
    Omackeral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Omg. Have Jamie s parents and family not been through enough.

    The child's name was James. Never "Jamie". It's a different name and he was never called it at all by his family. It actually hurt Denise Fergus anytime his name was incorrectly reported as "Jamie", as she says in her book released last year. Bit of respect to get child's name right at the very least.


  • #92
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Having grown up knowing the headlines of these murders and being incredibly shocked and upset at the time of what happened. And now having a young son i cannot come to any relations as to what it would feel like for this to happen.

    Its actually beyond alot of comprehension to be frank.

    But i can still see the need to understand how those kids got to that point. Yes i do believe that some humans have a genetic predisposition to suggestion and a chemical imbalance in control. But these things are in alot of humans and do not always tip the balance into acts.

    So my thoughts would be that yes its good for more visibility into the causes of such actions, Why, What could have been done, When did it start and how can we prevent such things occurring. having people being able to recognise red alerts before it gets out of hand.

    But also i am torn that this whole thing keeps raising its head for the families involved. Its like groundhog day especially when its publicised again




    I just dont know how to feel about the documentary as i havent seen it.


    But i also dont want to relive the details of the childs murder. As had occurred in this very thread


  • #93
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭nthclare


    listermint wrote: »
    calls other posters lefties

    then follows up with this




    Youve some head in the clouds fella

    Better than having my head in the sand really, at least I can breathe.



    Mod: banned for ignoring threadban


  • #94
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    There are all types in the world. There's more people around these days who want to find an excuse for the scumbag and the evil bastard than ever before.
    Ignoring them completely is about the only way to stay calm and get on with your life.
    Just don't watch this thing. If it loses money then he might never get to make another one.


  • #95
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Wonder how she feels about "filmmaker " making a film about her poor murdered son and not even having the manners to inform her.
    The Bulger family's point of view on this has been well expressed, so what was the filmmaker to gain by contacting them?

    No matter what he did, he was going to upset them. He didn't need their permission to make the film, or their blessing, or even confirmation that they were OK with it.

    We know in fact, that they would not be OK with it. So what would be gained by giving them a "heads up"?

    "I'm just ringing to let you know that a short movie which I made and which you are going to find deeply upsetting has been shortlisted for an Oscar"

    ?

    What does that do except cause an argument?

    I do understand why it feels like there should be a common courtesy to contact the family of a murder victim for their approval before publishing anything about the case.
    But in reality if that were required, then we would only have very sanitised or narrow versions of these incidents.

    When the incident is enormously high-profile, like this one was, then it moves beyond a private family tragedy and becomes public domain. And with that comes a certain level of duty on the part of journalists and other media to ensure that the incident has been roundly and honestly represented to the public, no matter how upsetting that may be.


  • #96
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    Why do some "posters" keep putting certain "words" in inverted commas?


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  • #97
    sk8erboii
    Site Banned Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭sk8erboii


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Lefties are not saying pedophiles are a sexual orientation.
    Pedophiles are the ones trying to push that agenda.
    I would like to see proof of this alleged lefty independent group concerned with protecting the "sexual orientation" of child molesters.

    As we all know, if you repealed the 8th youre also a satanic pedophile.


  • #98
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,505 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    seamus wrote: »
    Vincent Lambe is a highly regarded director, and a far cry from an attention seeker.

    The problem here is that the James Bulger murder is a sacred cow of the British tabloid class, and any discussion of the murderers which doesn't characterise them with horns and pitchforks will have them wailing about how it's "too soft" on them and "humanising" them.


    Believing the murderers to be just randomly "evil" and beyond explanation helps them avoid uncomfortable truths.

    Yep, I saw this on a UK forum in 2010 when the issue with Venables and child abuse imagery arose. It's a case that's almost impossible to discuss without the seething anger being front and centre, obscuring debate.

    Nothing like a moral panic and bit of groupthink. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/feb/06/bulger.ukcrime

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #99
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Just seen the year on there 1993, that’s 25 years - the usual allotted time for information to be made public, does this mean that the short film has recently made public data? Or is it just a coincidence?


  • #100
    PuppyMcPupFace
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 255 ✭✭PuppyMcPupFace


    The Black Oil wrote: »
    Yep, I saw this on a UK forum in 2010 when the issue with Venables and child abuse imagery arose. It's a case that's almost impossible to discuss without the seething anger being front and centre, obscuring debate.

    Nothing like a moral panic and bit of groupthink. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/feb/06/bulger.ukcrime

    Oh behave will you. "Groupthink"????

    You think millions can't get the idea themselves that the people who lured a toddler away from his mother and then tortured and murdered him are disgusting monstrous scum then you are insane.


  • #101
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,204 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    begbysback wrote: »
    Just seen the year on there 1993, that’s 25 years - the usual allotted time for information to be made public, does this mean that the short film has recently made public data? Or is it just a coincidence?

    Doubt it.
    I'd say all the grisly details came out in the trial.


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