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Is online dating worth trying?

  • 28-03-2020 2:05pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    When I go to college next academic year in September, I'm planning on beginning dating. I've been told to try Bumble or Tinder but then I've also heard don't bother because the odds are not in your favor as a man (too many fish trying to bite onto a hook).

    The thing is, I'm sure that I'm on the spectrum and a bit too weird for casual dating. Also never had and don't have any friends. in secondary school and worse, went to a single sex school so my opportunities are completely hampered unless I go online.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Ultrflat


    When I go to college next academic year in September, I'm planning on beginning dating. I've been told to try Bumble or Tinder but then I've also heard don't bother because the odds are not in your favor as a man (too many fish trying to bite onto a hook).

    The thing is, I'm sure that I'm on the spectrum and a bit too weird for casual dating. Also never had and don't have any friends. in secondary school and worse, went to a single sex school so my opportunities are completely hampered unless I go online.

    I think that's a load of crap any one can be successful and able to go out on dates if they make the effort. Gotta learn to figure out who's genuine and who's looking for a confidence boost.

    In my experience if they say very little on their profiles just move on if they make no effort to talk then forget about them and move on. get some pics of you up be honest and don't send an essay either. Keep it light hearted :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    It can be a great experience online dating, and also a lonely existence. Right now between tinder and bumble there are loads of people online, though what I am seeing is that no one is chatting, potentially just looking for the ego boost.

    Consider not going online straight away, it can be a rabbit hole, with no end, and potentially you may feel that being online is easier that actually talking to people face to face.

    If you are genuine, and you sound like it, consider something over the summer that may push you in the right direction of becoming more chatting, tour guides, bar man, or similar? Join groups at college allowing you to mix more easily.

    If it's a fear thing, then do the thing that scares you, you'll realise that it wasn't really that difficult after all.

    Say hi, smile, and compliment, use their name.

    College is great, life is great, do the thing that is right for you, not what the herd does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    It can work out well but, I would advise to just use it as an introduction and then go on some proper dates with the person.

    Obviously at the moment it’s not going to be very safe or practical with COVID-19 but in general, online dating is really what you make of it.
    It can be a good ice breaker and forum for meeting people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Feisar


    It should be just another string in your bow. The great thing about it is it's always working for you.

    Remember though, it's the Indian not the arrow.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    When you go to college join any clubs and societies that interest you. Get to know girls as people. Online dating is ok but not always good for those who don't do bull$hit.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    When I go to college next academic year in September, I'm planning on beginning dating. I've been told to try Bumble or Tinder but then I've also heard don't bother because the odds are not in your favor as a man (too many fish trying to bite onto a hook).

    The thing is, I'm sure that I'm on the spectrum and a bit too weird for casual dating. Also never had and don't have any friends. in secondary school and worse, went to a single sex school so my opportunities are completely hampered unless I go online.

    Absolutely it's worth it. You're investing very little and you might get a huge return.

    My advice is to enjoy yourself and not take it too seriously as a fresher in college.

    Get out and about. Join clubs and meet people with similar, or very different, interests. You could be in the skiing club or the Dungeons and Dragons Soc and love both.

    I met my significant other online, but before that I hadn't really taken it too seriously and hadn't arranged any other dates off it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,254 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    You need a thick skin for it which unfortunately I don't have. :P For example during my latest dalliance I got a super like notification which I knew must have been a slip of the finger, but I still took the step of making the first comment after waiting a period of time.....unmatched instantly. :pac:

    So it's a frustrating and sometimes cruel process. The only advice I could give is have a plan for your profile when signing up, put some effort into the pictures you put up and stick with it if you believe this is what you want.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    for fellas in their 20s online dating can be an uphill battle. In your 30s it is a turkey shoot. I probably block and delete more girls than I message.
    However, on the flip side of it the girls messaging you are often those in a panic to settle down before all their eggs go off. If looking for casual riding, they will wreck you head and resulting in drama. Sure it is grand too if that is your thing.

    I hear people saying online dating is a cruel and unforgiving experience. That is an over the top take on it. It isn't at all. It is people who take it too seriously who end up thinking that. It is generally just a light hearted thing and done for fun and tbh most people only go on swiping to pass the time if they are bored. If you are unmatched, deleted or don't get a reply, it is not a personal dig at you and you shouldn't take it personally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    for fellas in their 20s online dating can be an uphill battle. In your 30s it is a turkey shoot. I probably block and delete more girls than I message.
    However, on the flip side of it the girls messaging you are often those in a panic to settle down before all their eggs go off. If looking for casual riding, they will wreck you head and resulting in drama. Sure it is grand too if that is your thing.

    You seem like a catch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    why?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    KiKi III wrote: »
    You seem like a catch.

    He's not wrong though... :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    for fellas in their 20s online dating can be an uphill battle. In your 30s it is a turkey shoot. I probably block and delete more girls than I message.
    However, on the flip side of it the girls messaging you are often those in a panic to settle down before all their eggs go off. If looking for casual riding, they will wreck you head and resulting in drama. Sure it is grand too if that is your thing.

    I hear people saying online dating is a cruel and unforgiving experience. That is an over the top take on it. It isn't at all. It is people who take it too seriously who end up thinking that. It is generally just a light hearted thing and done for fun and tbh most people only go on swiping to pass the time if they are bored. If you are unmatched, deleted or don't get a reply, it is not a personal dig at you and you shouldn't take it personally.

    Honestly this is my experience.

    Especially the second part, never take anything personally. You could be having great chats with someone and they'll disappear off the face of the earth the next day.
    It takes a amount of effort to get a stranger to meet up with you and many women and men just aren't pushed on making that effort for the 95% of people they chat to on these apps.


  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Emerie Red Nose


    It has been a while since I partook but online dating is great craic. I had some smashing times and met some smashing people, some of which I remain friends with.

    The early days of Tinder were 🤟🏻 .

    Definitely give it a bash Mr_F.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,349 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    When I go to college next academic year in September, I'm planning on beginning dating. I've been told to try Bumble or Tinder but then I've also heard don't bother because the odds are not in your favor as a man (too many fish trying to bite onto a hook).

    The thing is, I'm sure that I'm on the spectrum and a bit too weird for casual dating. Also never had and don't have any friends. in secondary school and worse, went to a single sex school so my opportunities are completely hampered unless I go online.

    But in this thread you say that you went to a mixed school? :confused::confused:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112937590

    And this is your third or fourth Tinder thread in the past year too... :rolleyes:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    But in this thread you say that you went to a mixed school? :confused::confused:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112937590

    And this is your third or fourth Tinder thread in the past year too... :rolleyes:

    When i say school, I mean I currently attend a PLC college, not a "university" college.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4 Adam Carter


    Waste of time unless you are very good looking.


  • Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Emerie Red Nose


    Do no do the whole Tinder Gold thing. It doesn't work. It's a gimmick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33 Savecoronabeer


    I done very well from Tinder a few years ago but now it is literally filled with spammers and insta huns. The likelihood of getting an actual date from it these days is very slim.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,147 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    I never had much luck with it myself. I met one girl off POF years ago, back when you had to put a bit of effort into it. It's all to easy to swipe on your phone and then say to yourself that you tried.


  • Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In my opinion online dating, and dating in general is a bit like fishing.

    There are two types of fishing. Fishing for the fun of it and fishing to feed yourself. It's the same with dating. If you want to date for the general experience, meeting new people, having a laugh it can be an enjoyable experience. If you want to date because you are lonely, or trying to fill a void, it can be a lonely demoralizing experience.

    I have gone on fishing trips, not caught a thing, ended up wet, cold and hungry, but still had a great time (and stopped off at tesco on the way home for something for dinner).

    Likewise I've been on disastrous dates but was able to laugh it off.

    However, during a low, lonely phase of my life, dating was an arduous, lonely experience.

    Edit: Also, I have come to the conclusion, that some people use the likes of Tinder as an alternative to Candy Crush just so they have something to do on their phone during their commute, or when sat on the couch.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    In my opinion online dating, and dating in general is a bit like fishing.

    There are two types of fishing. Fishing for the fun of it and fishing to feed yourself. It's the same with dating. If you want to date for the general experience, meeting new people, having a laugh it can be an enjoyable experience. If you want to date because you are lonely, or trying to fill a void, it can be a lonely demoralizing experience.

    I have gone on fishing trips, not caught a thing, ended up wet, cold and hungry, but still had a great time (and stopped off at tesco on the way home for something for dinner).

    Likewise I've been on disastrous dates but was able to laugh it off.

    However, during a low, lonely phase of my life, dating was an arduous, lonely experience.

    Edit: Also, I have come to the conclusion, that some people use the likes of Tinder as an alternative to Candy Crush just so they have something to do on their phone during their commute, or when sat on the couch.

    You're also forgetting that to maximize your chance of a good catch (i.e. get an attractive woman), you have to put in the resources into 'fishing' (good photo, nice teeth, well groomed hair) etc...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭granturismo


    You're also forgetting that to maximize your chance of a good catch (i.e. get an attractive woman), you have to put in the resources into 'fishing' (good photo, nice teeth, well groomed hair) etc...

    Maybe you need to reevaluate your priorities.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    Maybe you need to reevaluate your priorities.

    What do you mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭Ultrflat


    I done very well from Tinder a few years ago but now it is literally filled with spammers and insta huns. The likelihood of getting an actual date from it these days is very slim.



    Are they like wannabe influanncers who have there instagram page on there account same as POF? :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    I think you need to swallow the black pill, I was in your shoes once, now I am a 28 year old kisless virgin. There is a very high chance you will never find a woman and you need to prepare your mind for that. However maybe I am being too hasty, I don't know what you look like and your autism symptoms may be positive for dating for example a socialable personality but for men like me it is over, it never really began. Ugly men, high inhibition, unsociable personality, uncharismatic. If I got a girlfriend I couldn't cope with being around her anyway so I suppose my unsociable personality works against me and for me. I don't want a girlfriend because of the autism and I couldn't get one anyway because of the autism.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,511 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Why would you watch anything about coloured pills, ffs? Enough with the labels and jargon, you'll end up brainwashed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭Goodigal


    @LoughNeagh I have two sons on the spectrum and I truly hope they don't end up feeling this way. Sad to read. I hope things change for you. That you find a way to socialise comfortably. However difficult that may be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Online dating can work as long as you don't take it too seriously and have a bit of a thick skin - same as Internet use in general really.

    Most of the popular apps are deliberately based on looks alone and a quick hookup which is fine if that's all both sides want, but they're not great beyond that I think.

    You'll encounter a lot of people who'll expect you to fall based on their own previous experiences or relationships. While it's true that many/most guys are only after an easy hookup, it's very hard to compete against a ghost and nor should you need to "make up" for some other guy's behaviour and the resulting cynical attitudes.

    It's also a bit of a lottery anyway as there's a lot more guys than girls on these things too so even getting a reply can be tough unless you are Brad Pitt or whoever girls like nowadays :)

    Best thing is to go in with no expectations beyond meeting someone you can have a conversation with and a laugh. Anything more is a bonus really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Married one of the women i met online dating! Happily married for the last 8 years with two kids.

    I would have been shy and not the most forward in any situation. So hooking up with a randomer was never going to happen for me. I would have dated people I was friendly with first. Not going out with the intention of that to begin with.

    i generally dont make a good first impression. Bit of a resting bitch face and never used to make eye contact. Like most I'm probably a little on the spectrum.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 13 Just Be Confident Bro


    Studies from Okcupid and the like have shown that women consider 80% of men to be unattractive. Unless you regularly turn heads when walking down the street, there is no point in bothering with online dating.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭Passenger


    Just look at the stats for some of these dating apps. Make of them what you will.

    Men outnumber women on Tinder by 9 to 1.
    So called “female-friendly” apps like Bumble have fewer than 20% female users.

    Source


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭bloodless_coup


    Complete waste of time unless you're into the real heavy set ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    I think you need to swallow the black pill, I was in your shoes once, now I am a 28 year old kisless virgin. There is a very high chance you will never find a woman and you need to prepare your mind for that. However maybe I am being too hasty, I don't know what you look like and your autism symptoms may be positive for dating for example a socialable personality but for men like me it is over, it never really began. Ugly men, high inhibition, unsociable personality, uncharismatic. If I got a girlfriend I couldn't cope with being around her anyway so I suppose my unsociable personality works against me and for me. I don't want a girlfriend because of the autism and I couldn't get one anyway because of the autism.

    You seem articulate if a bit pessimistic. You are only 28, do not write yourself off. I hope that in a few years time you will think differently and that you will have a nice girlfriend, failing that some positive experiences under your belt. There is a sort of flip in the dating scene which happens when people turn 30 - up to age 30 women have the upper hand, after that men have the upper hand. You may not know it, but you are coming into your own. The important thing is not to get bitter about your lack of experience so far.

    Perhaps you live in a place where it is difficult to meet women who appreciate quiet intelligent men. You might need to change job and move. There are women who appreciate intelligence and don't go for bombastic men but they are harder to find. There are women on the autistic/aspergers spectrum too. They hide it better but they might understand and appreciate somebody similar.

    I know it's difficult at the moment with lockdown but a good haircut and grooming advice benefit most people. Nutritional advice can help too, the right diet can make you feel more positive and better about yourself in general.

    Foreign travel is difficult right now but sometimes a visit to another country, being open to new experiences and putting yourself in a new environment can give you a new perspective.

    Online dating is difficult for most people. Don't take it too seriously and when it get too much take a break and come back in a few months if that's what you want. I think it's better to meet somebody in a positive environment such as a sports club or through a hobby.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,825 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Is it worth trying? Absolutely

    You'll at least meet some interesting people. Might some of them be nutcases? Of course, but you're likely to meet some lovely people also. That's based on my own experience anyway.

    Go for it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,366 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Get good photos and hit the gym. Your first message should not be ‘hi’, take the 2 mins to read the profile before you message. You need to make the time to be on these apps too, 30 mins in the morning and 30 in the evening then just message your matches.
    Keep it light and easy at the start and try and meet up soon. It’s just a numbers game after that. Remember that there is something to learn from every failure, if your on the spectrum it might take longer to learn but you will learn.
    Even being on those apps shows women in the same circles you’re single, so it increases options there too.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,511 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    I'm new to it, only a couple of months. There's a lot of rubbish on it, lazy profiles, poor photos. I'm sure this is true for both men and women. There's spam such as escort profiles too. I've seen women give about about gym selfies, lads with their shirts off, etc, so perhaps limit those. Haven't had conversation with anyone yet, but it's such a weird time in the world at the moment it's hard to know how people are using it at all. Some very good profiles on it too, tbf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,147 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    I have to say there's no shortage of attractive well educated women on Bumble. However I always seem to match with women who I can't a make up my mind on. Like they will look great in the first few photos but then look terrible in the rest.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    I have to say there's no shortage of attractive well educated women on Bumble. However I always seem to match with women who I can't a make up my mind on. Like they will look great in the first few photos but then look terrible in the rest.

    I've heard though that Bumble only has around 20% of women.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,148 ✭✭✭Passenger


    I've heard though that Bumble only has around 20% of women.

    You heard? You mean you read it five posts up.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,147 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    I've heard though that Bumble only has around 20% of women.
    Maybe it has, I dunno. I find it a lot better than tinder anyway, especially if you're in your 30's. Less time wasters on it.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 20 SimpNation


    It varies, from my experience from years ago early twenties women were easy for the ride as i had my sh!t together (early thirties then) but women my age were a nightmare, all hitting a wall in terms of looks and desperate for a relationship/kids.

    It's funny, you could tell some were really attractive in their prime and i'm sure a lot would've messed me over and not taken me seriously if we met in their prime, once their looks were gone it was like shooting fish in a barrel in terms of getting them out for a date but some were very masculine and you could tell they had an agenda.


    Avoid women that have "dating with a purpose" in their bio. I also noticed a commonality in bios, those who had "not into one-night stands" , "not looking for fun" etc, were often the ones who were up for a one night stand on the first date.

    Just my 2cents


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,121 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    I have to say there's no shortage of attractive well educated women on Bumble. However I always seem to match with women who I can't a make up my mind on. Like they will look great in the first few photos but then look terrible in the rest.

    I found Bumble superior to Tinder in terms of intellectual compatibility; not to say there aren't loads of smart and/or well educated women on Tinder, but hunzos seemed to be more common on Tinder.
    That may have changed in the year and a half since I came off the apps but it's unlikely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,121 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    It's a waste of time unless you're above average in looks. I made a Tinder profile and I did everything right, interesting pictures of me, outside doing cool things, no selfies. I put effort into my bio.

    My results? Three likes.

    How come when I use my fake Chad profile, which is literally three selfies of a hot guy in his room, and a one liner about his height and interests, I get matches and likes with dozens and dozens of beautiful young women?

    It's all about the FACE.

    Well, what do you expect? To bag a 10/10 woman if you're a 4/10?

    Sexual attraction is primarily based on reproductive prospects; you're moaning that the universe hasn't created the equivalent of investors putting a huge chunk of money into a start-up with, frankly, very poor ROI prospects. Why would they? Do you think the universe owes you genetic justice?

    The fact you have a 'fake Chad profile' is enough to get me to tell any female I cared about to steer clear of you.

    I know plenty of guys who don't look amazing, or don't have a huge intellect, or even have considerable physical disabilities, and they STILL make the best of themselves and end up with great partners.

    You have what you have, in terms of looks, intellect, etc.
    However, it's up to YOU to squeeze all you can from it. Crying over Chads or romantic / genetic inequalities will just hinder and stunt you, causing you to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

    Own it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,121 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    Lol at the delusion. If you are relying on online dating to get a woman then it's over for you. It might never have even begun. The only exception is if you're white and relocate to Asia. Then online dating might be great.

    My advice stands, if you're average in looks don't bother with online dating, and please don't waste money on it. No amount of awesome profile pics of you doing cool stuff will make you more handsome. All that matters is the face. My experiment proves it.

    Irl other factors like status and height have a role to play.

    Mate, I already have a partner. We met through online dating. I also met PLENTY of other beautiful, intelligent, wonderful women while I dated.

    With all that, plus your previous posts in mind, I'll very happily decline any advice you have to offer and would encourage any other gentleman to do the same.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭bloodless_coup


    It's interesting how men are so resistant to the idea that looks matter. If you say a woman only wants a man for his money, no one bats an eyelid. But say she only wants a man for his looks and people get a bit eh, techy.

    It's always the fellas who have had a bit of success with women who come along and tell those who haven't that they are wrong and their experience is fabricated. Rise Of The Simps indeed.

    Who would want a modern woman anyway? We're supposed to scramble around in the dirt like dogs fighting over a bone vying for the attention of someone who's most likely been on the cock-carousel several times over and gone well past the wall. What a prize.

    For some men they should really just wake up and except they are part of the 40% of males who will never re-produce, never find a partner and will die alone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,121 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    I'm gonna guess you boys are MGTOW 4life then?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I met people through OkCupid and plentyoffish. I had relationships with people I met through them. I haven't been single for some time and if tinder was a thing while I was, I wasn't aware of it.

    I found women would initiate contact, especially on POF. I found the users on that to be more mature and straightforward, but that might have been because I was only on that when I was older myself.

    You don't really know how you'll click with someone just by chatting online. It's best to arrange meeting for a cup of coffee pretty much straight away. If you spend long just chatting you form an impression of each other that might be terribly accurate, and the whole thing can get a bit inflated or something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    It's always the fellas who have had a bit of success with women who come along and tell those who haven't that they are wrong and their experience is fabricated. Rise Of The Simps indeed.

    Who would want a modern woman anyway? We're supposed to scramble around in the dirt like dogs fighting over a bone vying for the attention of someone who's most likely been on the cock-carousel several times over and gone well past the wall. What a prize.

    For some men they should really just wake up and except they are part of the 40% of males who will never re-produce, never find a partner and will die alone.
    It's better not to be desperate or pushy. If you act like you're scrambling around in the dirt then you probably come across as both.

    40% of males never find a partner or reproduce and die alone? Obviously not true. Why lap up such nonsense?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    It's interesting how men are so resistant to the idea that looks matter. If you say a woman only wants a man for his money, no one bats an eyelid. But say she only wants a man for his looks and people get a bit eh, techy.
    I remember one woman ignoring a message and then falling over herself introduce herself shortly later after I changed my pic.

    I found just as many women wanted to meet me when I was flat broke as when I had a good job. The difference that made was whether they wanted to date casually or develop a relationship. Plenty of exceptions to that though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I consistently punched above my weight while dating. The trick is to just be straightforward and nice without being pushy or trying to compete with others or impress them. I think very attractive women tend to encounter a lot of painful nonsense from guys. Just being presentable, normal, straightforward and courteous can be refreshing for them I think. Nothing groundbreaking or too out-there. But god knows what that sounds like to someone reading it through the manosphere prism.


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