Aren't Nissan Ireland a great bunch of lads?

Mc Love · 11-01-2019 10:12am #1

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8789/Nissan-calls-for-older-car-import-ban

Nissan Ireland, not for the first time, has called on the Government to ban the importing of second hand cars from the UK.

I can't believe it, but if the government actually act on this we'll be stuck with paddy spec!

Toyotafanboi · 11-01-2019 10:29am

I don't know. Every day of the week on here there is someone harping "Ireland is the dumping ground for the ageing diesels the UK doesn't want", that "the UK is ahead of the emissions game and fobbing off it's tired diesels on poor old Paddy".

Now someone wants to ban it and that's not good either?

If we're going to go so deep with the self wallowing, lets at least try to keep a consistent theme.

To be fair, I said it in another thread a few weeks back but the days of "Paddy spec" ended 10-15 years ago. Virtually everybody wants technology and creature comforts in cars now.

To me, this is only Nissan panicking because their product line up is ****e. If they didn't have the Qashqai, they'd have folded here a long time ago IMO. I know the Leaf does ok for itself but it isn't enough to carry the brand. The Pulsar, Micra, Juke and whatever else they sell are mostly rubbish, when added to the reputation for poor quality that there 2000's onwards stuff has, why would anyone buy one? The whole BOGOF thing they are doing now really screams of desperation too.

listermint · 11-01-2019 10:34am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I don't know. Every day of the week on here there is someone harping "Ireland is the dumping ground for the ageing diesels the UK doesn't want", that "the UK is ahead of the emissions game and fobbing off it's tired diesels on poor old Paddy".

Now someone wants to ban it and that's not good either?

If we're going to go so deep with the self wallowing, lets at least try to keep a consistent theme.

To be fair, I said it in another thread a few weeks back but the days of "Paddy spec" ended 10-15 years ago. Virtually everybody wants technology and creature comforts in cars now.

To me, this is only Nissan panicking because their product line up is ****e. If they didn't have the Qashqai, they'd have folded here a long time ago IMO. I know the Leaf does ok for itself but it isn't enough to carry the brand. The Pulsar, Micra, Juke and whatever else they sell are mostly rubbish, when added to the reputation for poor quality that there 2000's onwards stuff has, why would anyone buy one? The whole BOGOF thing they are doing now really screams of desperation too.

That is not true at all. Distributors in this country decide what the spec is and best bang for their personal buck. That is the same today as it ever was.

Tacitus Kilgore · 11-01-2019 10:34am

The post-brexit VAT & Tariffs will be the effective banning they desire anyway (if it goes that way)

zilog_jones · 11-01-2019 10:41am

If they restrict or ban imports from the UK, people will just import more from Japan - and that probably would be better for the local environment as diesels have a minuscule market share over there. Not everyone wants to or can afford to buy a new car.

Nissan's a bit of a mess in general right now. I don't know any other car manufacturers who's CEO is in jail...

Toyotafanboi · 11-01-2019 10:43am

listermint wrote: »

That is not true at all. Distributors in this country decide what the spec is and best bang for their personal buck. That is the same today as it ever was.

Actually, the consumer decides.

You buy a car with the spec you like. If the importers aren't providing cars people want, they won't sell. Plenty of people now want nicely spec'd cars and importers are spec'ing cars to levels that will compete and sell. Sure there'll always be some basic models about but that's the same anywhere, it's not exclusive to Ireland.

i know one swallow doesn't make a summer, but I was in an Enterprise rental Corolla the other day and it had climate control and adaptive cruise FFS.

Toyotafanboi · 11-01-2019 10:45am

zilog_jones wrote: »

Nissan's a bit of a mess in general right now. I don't know any other car manufacturers who's CEO is in jail...

Martin Winterkorn is looking pretty smug right now

redcup342 · 11-01-2019 11:20am

I got a Nissan Joke as a rental from Hertz in Dublin Airport a few months ago, thought the car was around 5 years old as it had a radio and that was it.

it was 2 months old and had 1500 km on the clock

Every rental car in Germany comes fully loaded as they want a good resale value on it, who the F would buy that thing

Vicxas · 11-01-2019 11:40am

redcup342 wrote: »

I got a Nissan Joke as a rental from Hertz in Dublin Airport a few months ago, thought the car was around 5 years old as it had a radio and that was it.

it was 2 months old and had 1500 km on the clock

Every rental car in Germany comes fully loaded as they want a good resale value on it, who the F would buy that thing

Some Paddy that just wants the reg plate and nothing else.

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 11:41am

Mc Love wrote: »

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8789/Nissan-calls-for-older-car-import-ban

I can't believe it, but if the government actually act on this we'll be stuck with paddy spec!

Pre or post Brexit UK?

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 11:43am

redcup342 wrote: »

I got a Nissan Joke as a rental from Hertz in Dublin Airport a few months ago, thought the car was around 5 years old as it had a radio and that was it.

it was 2 months old and had 1500 km on the clock

Every rental car in Germany comes fully loaded as they want a good resale value on it, who the F would buy that thing

not sure that that has much to do with the OP. However rental cars in Ireland as probably near worthless at resale time given how many of them end up clattering about the Wild Atlantic Way.

It's not really relevant at that stage what the entertainment system is

Skylinehead · 11-01-2019 11:47am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Now someone wants to ban it and that's not good either?

Well no, we can't all afford new cars.

meeeeh · 11-01-2019 11:54am

That's frankly nonsense. UK is still part of the EU and free travel of goods applies. They actually don't realise how lucky they are Ireland has right hand drive cars or they would be competing with imports from Netherlands, Germany or Italy.

Anyway they might try to make less ugly cars for a start.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 11-01-2019 11:55am

This just shows how utterly desperate and ignorant Nissan are. If they were to ban cars being imported from the uk they’d have to ban them from everywhere else too. You just can’t pick a country and ban products/cars from that country regardless of whether it’s an EU country or not, nissans ignorance is astounding in that regard.

Nissan are a failing company, any major car manufacturer that decides to eliminate all saloons from their line up doesn’t deserve to survive. I used to like Nissans but I wouldn’t touch one now (with the exception of the GTR of course)

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 11:55am

meeeeh wrote: »

That's frankly nonsense. UK is still part of the EU and free travel of goods applies. They actually don't realise how lucky they are Ireland has right hand drive cars or they would be competing with imports from Netherlands, Germany or Italy.

Anyway they might try to make less ugly cars for a start.

urm....

meeeeh · 11-01-2019 12:00pm

lawred2 wrote: »

urm....

I know it's not going to last but at the moment it's free trade of goods.

Mc Love · 11-01-2019 12:22pm

Vicxas wrote: »

Some Paddy that just wants the reg plate and nothing else.

Some paddy that all they want is something to get them from a to b! The rise of plain paddy spec dacia's exactly the way it is and has always been

road_high · 11-01-2019 12:27pm

Mc Love wrote: »

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8789/Nissan-calls-for-older-car-import-ban

I can't believe it, but if the government actually act on this we'll be stuck with paddy spec!

Didn't know Nissan manufactured cars here? Maybe we should bn all brnd new imports from the UK too, just to be safe.

D3V!L · 11-01-2019 12:27pm

Can we just ban the import of Nissans ?

listermint · 11-01-2019 12:31pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Actually, the consumer decides.

You buy a car with the spec you like. If the importers aren't providing cars people want, they won't sell. Plenty of people now want nicely spec'd cars and importers are spec'ing cars to levels that will compete and sell. Sure there'll always be some basic models about but that's the same anywhere, it's not exclusive to Ireland.

i know one swallow doesn't make a summer, but I was in an Enterprise rental Corolla the other day and it had climate control and adaptive cruise FFS.

Afraid not, consumer decides based of a predefined list that the distributor cleared.

to pretend the consumer has full control as they do in other counties is disingenuous. The irish market has always and is always designed by the Distributor. Consumer no, because they know no different.

Toyotafanboi · 11-01-2019 12:41pm

listermint wrote: »

Afraid not, consumer decides based of a predefined list that the distributor cleared.

to pretend the consumer has full control as they do in other counties is disingenuous. The irish market has always and is always designed by the Distributor. Consumer no, because they know no different.

Yeah, of course, but the consumer decides what they buy, ultimately. Whether it be high/ low spec, Irish/ UK etc. If all Irish importers are supplying (allegedly) is low rent stuff and there is a mass migration to the UK second hand market for higher spec stuff, do you not think, even over the course of a few decades that importers will spot this and react to it? This whole "Paddy spec" mentality has gotten way out of hand, it's not much more than a cliche now.

This is the very reason Nissan are panicking and coming our with embarrassing stuff like this, because their cars are horrible yokes and nobody is buying them and they are clutching at the idea of ring fencing Irish buyers into them.

You don't see any serious players like Ford, Toyota, VW coming out with this nonsense, because their product is good (or at least better than Nissan) so they are selling, naturally, because they are better looking/ spec'd/ engines and people want them.

galwaytt · 11-01-2019 12:47pm

Mc Love wrote: »

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8789/Nissan-calls-for-older-car-import-ban

I can't believe it, but if the government actually act on this we'll be stuck with paddy spec!

He's a twit - and not for the first time. What he's really pissed at is the 2,877 Qashqai's that came in from the UK that he didn't get a slice of. If he had his head on the right way around, he'd be out there bringing those in and putting them through his dealerships.......

And I'm not buying his 'green concern', either: cars already built, are already built. You can't un-build them, and there are no factories out there building 2nd hand cars.............

And quite apart from the fact it would be illegal to ban imports, for a variety of reasons, irrespective of costs, the Nissan Leaf isn't the panacea to all our ills. If he's so concerned, let him get Nissan to put a few billion into a charging network that actually works, and then come back to us.

But I'd still buy a GT-R first.

jmreire · 11-01-2019 12:53pm

So Nissan want to ban the import of all pre-2014 cars from the UK ( and presumably other Countries too? I'm quite sure that this latest from Nissan is in the best interest's of the planet, and nothing to do with their sale's figures? And of course the Governments coffers?
"the tax take from a used car import is €6,000 less than from a new car sale." And why is that, I wonder??? Time was when ALL car import taxes were to be eliminated between member states....OH, I forgot...it WAS eliminated...but replaced by the VRT.
For sure, if I can save €6'000 just in tax ( not to mention dealer mark up ) by buying a 2nd hand ( either 6 mth or 1 year old ) car from England...then it's no contest. I pay enough car related taxes as it is, and I'm not a new plate chaser, so nearly new is fine by me ( or even not so new either)...we don't know yet how brexit will eventually play out, but even if tariffs come into play, they will be % related I would imagine, so it's quite possible that there will be a major price drop in UK car prices ???? If this happens, that is, then used car imports will increase ( unless of course Nissan has it's way.... )
Smacks of desperation when a company seems to be jumping on the emission band wagon and import tax in order to sell their cars.

Toyotafanboi · 11-01-2019 12:53pm

galwaytt wrote: »

He's a twit - and not for the first time. What he's really pissed at is the 2,877 Qashqai's that came in from the UK that he didn't get a slice of. If he had his head on the right way around, he'd be out there bringing those in and putting them through his dealerships.......

The thing that he's forgetting, that you rightly point out is that most or at least a decent portion of of those Qashqai's did go through his dealer notwork. The importer didn't get a cut out of them but it might have kept the dealer networks head above water.

There was 100k used vehicle imports, but not 100k imports of single vehicles by private individuals. A big portion of that 100k is dealers (franchise and indy) buying in full forecourts of ex UK stock. Whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and all that.

Fann Linn · 11-01-2019 12:54pm

No difference than publicans seeking the ban of supermarket cheap alcohol.

They've skin in the game and its hitting their pockets that's their only concern on this issue.

jmreire · 11-01-2019 1:33pm

Mc Love wrote: »

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/8789/Nissan-calls-for-older-car-import-ban

I can't believe it, but if the government actually act on this we'll be stuck with paddy spec!

Is Nissan now "Advising" the Govt. on what to do?????? Maybe ban on Nissan's is the answer????:D

StereoSound · 11-01-2019 1:41pm

Could Ireland ban importing cars despite the EU free trade movement ? Buying a Nissan would never cross my mind tbh.

jmreire · 11-01-2019 1:44pm

redcup342 wrote: »

I got a Nissan Joke as a rental from Hertz in Dublin Airport a few months ago, thought the car was around 5 years old as it had a radio and that was it.

it was 2 months old and had 1500 km on the clock

Every rental car in Germany comes fully loaded as they want a good resale value on it, who the F would buy that thing

With car rentals, you get what you selected..and for the base price, you get a base car, even sat nav cost's extra. If you want a car with all the bell's and whistles, expect to pay premium prices. You can be lucky though, and get a reasonably specced car, but that's the luck of the draw on what's available when you pick up your car.

galwaytt · 11-01-2019 1:44pm

StereoSound wrote: »

Could Ireland ban importing cars despite the EU free trade movement ? Buying a Nissan would never cross my mind tbh.

If the vehicle you're importing is actually EU compliant, then I don't believe they could. Even a UK Nissan is EU compliant........and always will be.

No more than people import stuff from US / Japan all the time, there'll be tarriffs, and that might put people off and slow it down.......but it's not a ban.

jmreire · 11-01-2019 1:49pm

Yes Toyotafanboi, you are right. I was in a VAG dealership the other day as a car transporter was unloading, all the unloaded cars were UK imports, and they joined the many others already on the site. So I presume that other dealerships are doing the same thing too in order to survive.

StereoSound · 11-01-2019 1:56pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes Toyotafanboi, you are right. I was in a VAG dealership the other day as a car transporter was unloading, all the unloaded cars were UK imports, and they joined the many others already on the site. So I presume that other dealerships are doing the same thing too in order to survive.

I see this every day, truck loads of UK imports on the N7 going to whatever dealer who brought them in.

Mc Love · 11-01-2019 2:01pm

Bought my last car from a Ford Dealership - guess what? Car was an import!

Old diesel · 11-01-2019 2:15pm

My reaction to this is that on a wider level Nissan are a bunch of plums - and will lose to the Koreans etc as a result. Crap happens.

On the SUV focused thing someone mentioned - they still make saloons outside Europe - for example the Altima and Maxima are offered in the US.

However inspite of making some decent cars like the 1st and 2nd Gen Primera they struggled to develop any positive image in the saloon/hatchback scene in the pre Quasqui era.

They struggled with issues like bland styling - styling is quite a big thing.

20 to 25 years ago you could have a Primera eGT/GT which was for those in the know considered a fabulous machine to drive for a family saloon. But it looked like the boring 2 litre diesel taxi you hopped in the back off after a night out.

The modern Quasqui has the modern hugely desirable styling - but not the stand out drive of a Primera GT. This fits the customer of 2019 prefectly.

Quasqui was and is a big success for them - so why make a saloon that no one wants when you can actually make your crossover a household name.

chicorytip · 11-01-2019 5:49pm

Toyotafanboi wrote:

To me, this is only Nissan panicking because their product line up is ****e. If they didn't have the Qashqai, they'd have folded here a long time ago IMO. I know the Leaf does ok for itself but it isn't enough to carry the brand. The Pulsar, Micra, Juke and whatever else they sell are mostly rubbish, when added to the reputation for poor quality that there 2000's onwards stuff has, why would anyone buy one? The whole BOGOF thing they are doing now really screams of desperation too.

Each of the models you mention are very good cars, at least the equal of similar type vehicles made by the likes of Hyundai, Ford, Peugeot and Renault.

Arthur Daley · 11-01-2019 6:13pm

Big number of these Nissans are built in the Sunderland plant.

They lost their way and were not playing to their strengths from the late 90s onwards, but the latest Micra has them back in the game in that segment.

road_high · 11-01-2019 10:01pm

I didnt think Nissan had lost their way too much- the Quoshqui is still the default crossover (think it’s no 3 in sales).
Though as other makers have managed to integrate more premium feel into their cars (Peugeot and Opel for example) Nissan haven’t really. The last Micra was in fact the opposite and didn’t work even at a low price. That’s part of the issue, their fit and finish has been decidedly average in a world where interiors and exteriors matter.
They used have a great name for reliability but they burned this with a serious of flawed cars. Rivals Toyota held onto theirs

Cee-Jay-Cee · 11-01-2019 10:17pm

Old diesel wrote: »

My reaction to this is that on a wider level Nissan are a bunch of plums - and will lose to the Koreans etc as a result. Crap happens.

On the SUV focused thing someone mentioned - they still make saloons outside Europe - for example the Altima and Maxima are offered in the US.

However inspite of making some decent cars like the 1st and 2nd Gen Primera they struggled to develop any positive image in the saloon/hatchback scene in the pre Quasqui era.

They struggled with issues like bland styling - styling is quite a big thing.

20 to 25 years ago you could have a Primera eGT/GT which was for those in the know considered a fabulous machine to drive for a family saloon. But it looked like the boring 2 litre diesel taxi you hopped in the back off after a night out.

The modern Quasqui has the modern hugely desirable styling - but not the stand out drive of a Primera GT. This fits the customer of 2019 prefectly.

Quasqui was and is a big success for them - so why make a saloon that no one wants when you can actually make your crossover a household name.

Because believe it or not, not everyone wants a Qaashqai and many many people still buy saloons. I drive saloons and always will, I will never ever drive a cross-over and many many other people are the same.

Shefwedfan · 11-01-2019 10:22pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I don't know. Every day of the week on here there is someone harping "Ireland is the dumping ground for the ageing diesels the UK doesn't want", that "the UK is ahead of the emissions game and fobbing off it's tired diesels on poor old Paddy".

Now someone wants to ban it and that's not good either?

If we're going to go so deep with the self wallowing, lets at least try to keep a consistent theme.

To be fair, I said it in another thread a few weeks back but the days of "Paddy spec" ended 10-15 years ago. Virtually everybody wants technology and creature comforts in cars now.

To me, this is only Nissan panicking because their product line up is ****e. If they didn't have the Qashqai, they'd have folded here a long time ago IMO. I know the Leaf does ok for itself but it isn't enough to carry the brand. The Pulsar, Micra, Juke and whatever else they sell are mostly rubbish, when added to the reputation for poor quality that there 2000's onwards stuff has, why would anyone buy one? The whole BOGOF thing they are doing now really screams of desperation too.

I have mentioned about the UK dumping old diesels and its true. I don't think anyone wants UK imports to stop. They want diesel imports to slow down. So increase the VRT on diesel import. So the only reason you would go for a diesel is if you really are doing the mileage to warrant a diesel.....fairly simple suggestion

In terms of Nissan, they are number 9 in the top 10 manufacturers in the World. Not too shabby to be honest.

Other manufacturers are coming out with simiar, Ford recently wanted Ireland to change our tax system to suit their cars because they can't get them down to the correct level.

It is funny people go on about Paddy spec etc, bu Dacia's etc are filling the roads around Ireland.....dealers would not bring in the Paddy Spec if they didn't sell them......

Yer Da sells Avon · 11-01-2019 10:29pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The Pulsar, Micra, Juke and whatever else they sell are mostly rubbish

The Pulsar is old-fashioned and the Juke is an acquired taste, but the current Micra is absolutely not rubbish.

bazz26 · 11-01-2019 10:30pm

The Pulsar was discontinued a few months back.

Atlantic Dawn · 11-01-2019 10:30pm

jmreire wrote: »

Yes Toyotafanboi, you are right. I was in a VAG dealership the other day as a car transporter was unloading, all the unloaded cars were UK imports, and they joined the many others already on the site. So I presume that other dealerships are doing the same thing too in order to survive.

Toyota/Lexus main dealers at this too, lots of them bringing in hybrids direct from the UK that have come back from lease/PCP deals.

road_high · 11-01-2019 10:39pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

The Pulsar is old-fashioned and the Juke is an acquired taste, but the current Micra is absolutely not rubbish.

The Juke needs to be replaced. It’s out since 2011. Must be out soon surely.
I thought the Pulsar was selling reasonably here but mustn’t have been worth it financially.

Old diesel · 11-01-2019 10:53pm

road_high wrote: »

The Juke needs to be replaced. It’s out since 2011. Must be out soon surely.
I thought the Pulsar was selling reasonably here but mustn’t have been worth it financially.

Pulsar struggled elsewhere - I remember reading some article a good while back about the production ending and the article outlined some dreadful sales figures on a European wide basis.

It's like the way people are wondering from an Irish prospective "why did they end Avensis and diesel production" but outside Ireland an Avensis diesel is outdated as a concept.

They sold 993 Pulsars last year and tbh I wonder who bought them.

You can understand why someone would buy into a brand new Almera in 1996 as they consider they were buying into excellent reliability reputation built up from the Bluebird and Sunny days.

But that's not in play with 2019 Nissan

Old diesel · 11-01-2019 11:04pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Because believe it or not, not everyone wants a Qaashqai and many many people still buy saloons. I drive saloons and always will, I will never ever drive a cross-over and many many other people are the same.

Tbh I have wondered how the Maxima would do in Europe. But I don't think it has the qualities to shake up the saloon market.

The US Altima looks a nice car but the road tests I've seen in the states feature CVTs and 2.0 turbo petrols.

Not a great combo for Europe

The Rape of Lucretia · 11-01-2019 11:23pm

Vicxas wrote: »

Some Paddy that just wants the reg plate and nothing else.

Paddy is extraordinarily superficial in his car desires. Year. Then brand. He would drive a hollow shell with wooden benches if it still looked OK from the outside.

The Rape of Lucretia · 11-01-2019 11:24pm

listermint wrote: »

Afraid not, consumer decides based of a predefined list that the distributor cleared.

to pretend the consumer has full control as they do in other counties is disingenuous. The irish market has always and is always designed by the Distributor. Consumer no, because they know no different.

But designed by the distributor to match what they know the consumer wants.

road_high · 11-01-2019 11:35pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Paddy is extraordinarily superficial in his car desires. Year. Then brand. He would drive a hollow shell with wooden benches if it still looked OK from the outside.

It’s definitely not like it used be. Twenty years ago plastic wheel trims and windy up windows were standard fare. Specs have improved enormously.
Many of us are quite discerning when it comes to spec- hence the popularity of imports from England as they tend to be very well specced. New cars here aren’t that far behind, the pov specs are never the range best sellers now.

road_high · 11-01-2019 11:38pm

Old diesel wrote: »

Pulsar struggled elsewhere - I remember reading some article a good while back about the production ending and the article outlined some dreadful sales figures on a European wide basis.

It's like the way people are wondering from an Irish prospective "why did they end Avensis and diesel production" but outside Ireland an Avensis diesel is outdated as a concept.

They sold 993 Pulsars last year and tbh I wonder who bought them.

You can understand why someone would buy into a brand new Almera in 1996 as they consider they were buying into excellent reliability reputation built up from the Bluebird and Sunny days.

But that's not in play with 2019 Nissan

The Pulsar was 10% of Irish sales which wasn’t bad considering they do offer a fairly big range. The reason they brought it in was because they said they lacked a Golf class car. But the Pulsar wasn’t good enough to cut it at the end of the day.

PaulKK · 11-01-2019 11:59pm

Ridiculous article.

What kind of logic suggests that someone buying a 3 - 5 year old used car in the UK and paying a couple of grand in VRT is going to turn around and buy some new sh1te eco box that Nissan are peddling?

The whole point of going to the UK is to get better choice on spec and save a few quid. You aren't suddenly going to go buy a new car if that's what you normally do.

We kind of need the UK available to us to import from, it keeps our average fleet somewhat respectable, otherwise we'd all be stuck with 1.4 Corollas and i40s.

There aren't nearly as many dropping 50/60k on decent new metal here for us all to hoover up second hand.

nice_guy80 · 12-01-2019 1:22am

This Paddy fella sounds like an awful eejit

Philb76 · 12-01-2019 9:32pm

StereoSound wrote: »

jmreire wrote: »

Yes Toyotafanboi, you are right. I was in a VAG dealership the other day as a car transporter was unloading, all the unloaded cars were UK imports, and they joined the many others already on the site. So I presume that other dealerships are doing the same thing too in order to survive.

I see this every day, truck loads of UK imports on the N7 going to whatever dealer who brought them in.

See this as well on same road and even more often as for the days of paddy spec being gone see loads of Toyota yaris auris and avensis one to three years old that are exactly paddy spec including two friends cars and the worst offender has to be the entry level skoda fabia for sale here

Aren't Nissan Ireland a great bunch of lads?

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