Estate Agent requesting a photo of me

Kleine Hundin · 22-01-2020 10:13am #1

I sold my house last year in Ireland. I live aboard and my father arranged the estate agent for the house sale. I came home to sign the contract at my solicitors although I could have done it by skype. All tax matters settled.

Now, the estate agent contacted my father saying the agent requires a photo of me as they are getting audited soon.

This seems weird, I could just send any stock photo.

Is this a usual practice?

Krombopulos Michael · 22-01-2020 10:31am

No, I have recently sold and bought a house and I have never been asked for a photo for the Estate Agent. I had to provide ID to my solicitor only and that was it.

I would be questioning that rationale of the agent why they need this?

ebbsy · 22-01-2020 10:34am

Auditors require photo ID of the directors of client companies, for money laundering purposes.

Could this be something similar.

JustMe,K · 22-01-2020 10:34am

Sounds like they more likely want to use you as a testimonial on their website!

Very odd, if they were doing it for know your customer purposes they would need official ID I would imagine

Kleine Hundin · 22-01-2020 10:44am

Yes, maybe it's a miscommunication and they want need photo id. I don't like sending making copies of photo id either.

I remember showing my ID and proof of address to the solicitor. I can't remember if a copy was made.

I'm not a director. I was a private landlord who sold their only property back home. My father acted as a go between although I had nothing against the agent contacting me directly and I paid the estate agent directly when they sent me an invoice for work preparing the house for sale.

I'm waiting to hear back from the agent to clarify the matter. I appreciate your feedback on your experiences.

Ray Palmer · 22-01-2020 1:35pm

Kleine Hundin wrote: »

Yes, maybe it's a miscommunication and they want need photo id. I don't like sending making copies of photo id either.

I remember showing my ID and proof of address to the solicitor. I can't remember if a copy was made.

I'm not a director. I was a private landlord who sold their only property back home. My father acted as a go between although I had nothing against the agent contacting me directly and I paid the estate agent directly when they sent me an invoice for work preparing the house for sale.

I'm waiting to hear back from the agent to clarify the matter. I appreciate your feedback on your experiences.

Yes you have to provide photo ID. Solicitor probably realised he had none on record. This applies to everyone dealing in financial records.

Citroen2cv · 22-01-2020 2:53pm

I had to provide passport photo ID to my estate agent selling my property.

spaceHopper · 22-01-2020 3:50pm

What can they do to you if you don't give it. Worst case nothing. Tell them no and if the auditor asks they are welcome to phone you.

Claw Hammer · 22-01-2020 3:53pm

The agent is required to carry out anti money laundering procedures in order to identify their client. Not providing him with the documents will land him in trouble. Why be awkward. It is a low thing to do.

circular flexing · 22-01-2020 3:57pm

You are required to provide copy of ID to both estate agent and solicitor - part of anti money laundering legislation.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 22-01-2020 4:25pm

Copy of your ID and a utility bill required BY LAW.

Marcusm · 22-01-2020 4:55pm

circular flexing wrote: »

You are required to provide copy of ID to both estate agent and solicitor - part of anti money laundering legislation.

Enzo Repulsive Rosemary wrote: »

Copy of your ID and a utility bill required BY LAW.

Actually the agent and solicitor are required to obtain them which they failed to do. Complying with it now will allow them to sidestep an adverse report. They have failed and are due the adverse report!

q85dw7osi4lebg · 22-01-2020 4:59pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Actually the agent and solicitor are required to obtain them which they failed to do. Complying with it now will allow them to sidestep an adverse report. They have failed and are due the adverse report!

I hope you don't ever make such a small mistake in your own life mr / miss perfect.

You'd want to be some shi1thead to go causing hassle like that. Can't imagine it'd do your name any good in the locality either.

JustMe,K · 22-01-2020 5:01pm

Enzo Repulsive Rosemary wrote: »

I hope you don't ever make such a small mistake in your own life mr / miss perfect.

You'd want to be some shi1thead to go causing hassle like that. Can't imagine it'd do your name any good in the locality either.

The estate agent not complying with AML regs is hardly a small mistake. Arguably the agent is causing hassle for the OP and their father.

looksee · 22-01-2020 5:02pm

Yes it seems like a relatively recent thing - I didn't have to provide id when I sold 2 years ago but this time I had to supply photo id and proof of address.

Victor · 22-01-2020 5:08pm

Enzo Repulsive Rosemary wrote: »

Can't imagine it'd do your name any good in the locality either.

So, they want a copy of one's passport or they will go around bad mouthing?

Marcusm · 22-01-2020 5:55pm

Enzo Repulsive Rosemary wrote: »

I hope you don't ever make such a small mistake in your own life mr / miss perfect.

You'd want to be some shi1thead to go causing hassle like that. Can't imagine it'd do your name any good in the locality either.

What a facile response. I didn’t suggest causing trouble. If they are not competent enough to gather it when required, I wouldn’t trust them with it later and there is certainly no obligation to provide it when the contract is completed. I’d guess you don’t appreciate the learning opportunities which arise in circumstances like this but prefer to prepare fraudulent client files instead!

Baby01032012 · 22-01-2020 6:44pm

I’m an estate agent. The PSRA the licensing body requires every agent to have an AML policy which includes performing a risk assessment of every client part of which is seeking photo ID and utility bill. It looks like your agent in preparing for their audit has realised they don’t have this ID on file. It’s a small thing but why don’t you just give it to them.

the_syco · 22-01-2020 9:48pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

It’s a small thing but why don’t you just give it to them.

They requested a picture of him, not photo ID. This is why the OP thought it odd.

Baby01032012 · 22-01-2020 9:58pm

the_syco wrote: »

They requested a picture of him, not photo ID. This is why the OP thought it odd.

Photo v photo ID...surely a misunderstanding quickly resolved by contacting them rather than starting a thread on boards

Marcusm · 22-01-2020 10:14pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’m an estate agent. The PSRA the licensing body requires every agent to have an AML policy which includes performing a risk assessment of every client part of which is seeking photo ID and utility bill. It looks like your agent in preparing for their audit has realised they don’t have this ID on file. It’s a small thing but why don’t you just give it to them.

The reason why they should not provide it relates to a concern that the EA might use it to assert/suggest that they had obtained it at the appropriate time. An EA which acknowledges it’s failing to the regulatory authority is fine. Fact is, failure to obtain appropriate AML evidence facilitates they introduction of dirty money into the financial system. This can’t be remedied later by someone such as an EA who has no ongoing relationship with the customer. It would be entirely inappropriate to facilitate a cover up of the EA’s failure to conduct appropriate AML/KYC. Unlike a bank/solicitor/accountant, an EA rarely has an ongoing relationship. Accordingly such false “remediation” of records simply perpetuates a lack of appropriate compliance procedures.

Baby01032012 · 22-01-2020 11:12pm

Marcusm wrote: »

The reason why they should not provide it relates to a concern that the EA might use it to assert/suggest that they had obtained it at the appropriate time. An EA which acknowledges it’s failing to the regulatory authority is fine. Fact is, failure to obtain appropriate AML evidence facilitates they introduction of dirty money into the financial system. This can’t be remedied later by someone such as an EA who has no ongoing relationship with the customer. It would be entirely inappropriate to facilitate a cover up of the EA’s failure to conduct appropriate AML/KYC. Unlike a bank/solicitor/accountant, an EA rarely has an ongoing relationship. Accordingly such false “remediation” of records simply perpetuates a lack of appropriate compliance procedures.

Jesus your full of yourself

Marcusm · 23-01-2020 12:23am

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Jesus your full of yourself

Not at all; it's simply that most quasi-professionals such as estate agents don't realise that these are important requirements and not a box-ticking exercise which can simply be made up later on. Over the past decade, tens of billions of dirty money has been washed through London property alone. While Ireland does noo have this same scale, fewer opportunities would have existed for John Gilligan et al in the past if front line operators such as estate agents had higher standards of probity. That's why they have been finally introduced. It would be disappointing if they could be circumvented in the manner which you expect. By your response, it is clear that neither the PSRA nor the SCSI has been successful in communicating this!

ted1 · 23-01-2020 7:57am

Marcusm wrote: »

The reason why they should not provide it relates to a concern that the EA might use it to assert/suggest that they had obtained it at the appropriate time. An EA which acknowledges it’s failing to the regulatory authority is fine. Fact is, failure to obtain appropriate AML evidence facilitates they introduction of dirty money into the financial system. This can’t be remedied later by someone such as an EA who has no ongoing relationship with the customer. It would be entirely inappropriate to facilitate a cover up of the EA’s failure to conduct appropriate AML/KYC. Unlike a bank/solicitor/accountant, an EA rarely has an ongoing relationship. Accordingly such false “remediation” of records simply perpetuates a lack of appropriate compliance procedures.

You’re some piece of work... so he made a little mistake , no need to be a prick. These things happen, provide the ID.
It may be more hassle if they authorities suspect there was money laundering and go after the OP.

If someone working in a shop gives you back to much , do you keep it to teach them a lesson, or do you do the decent thing and give it back?

Irishphotodesk · 23-01-2020 8:16am

I'm with MarcusM on this one, at least for now.

If the estate agent was direct and honest and said, it looks like we forgot to get a copy of ID etc can we get that now, I'm guessing that the OP would have complied.
BUT
It would appear the only reason they are seeking it is because they are due to be audited, on the face of it, the estate agent is willing to turn a blind eye to regulations as long as they get paid.

I may be wrong in my assumption but that's my opinion on the matter, OP, why not date the image /copy of ID and ensure regulatory body knows what to look for.

When I make mistakes in my work it costs me personally thousands of Euro, I try not to make many mistakes, I don't have the luxury of being able to cover up a mistake if I make it.... I admit an error and accept responsibility.

Marcusm · 23-01-2020 8:21am

ted1 wrote: »

You’re some piece of work... so he made a little mistake , no need to be a prick. These things happen, provide the ID.
It may be more hassle if they authorities suspect there was money laundering and go after the OP.

If someone working in a shop gives you back to much , do you keep it to teach them a lesson, or do you do the decent thing and give it back?

Thanks for the personal attack; it says more about you than it does about me.

Of course, I would point out an error in a shop - that’s entirely consistent with the approach I’ve adopted here.

Your comment that the “authorities ... [may] ... go after the OP” displays a lack of familiarity with or ignorance of the purpose of the rules. The fact that the EA does not gather the ID does not increase the perceived risk of the OP and would not prompt any further investigation of the client. Instead it indicates that the EA does not have sufficient procedures to meet its obligations. Seeking to obtain the proofs late displays a lack of integrity which is much more worrying from the perspective of the regulator. Incompetence is not so bad as a tendency to dissemble and cover up.

The approach taken by the EA indicates that they are likely to want to cover up rather than deal with their failings. This makes them a much higher risk. To take your shop example, it is as if the shop worker is aware that the till scans an item at the wrong price but, instead of fixing it, relies on memory to try and change the price each time it is scanned in the future. The underlying problem isn’t addressed and the opportunities for failure multiply.

ted1 · 23-01-2020 10:07am

Marcusm wrote: »

The approach taken by the EA indicates that they are likely to want to cover up rather than deal with their failings.

Cover up or put right ?

Steer55 · 23-01-2020 10:12am

Sold in recently and was asked to give copy of Id and recent bill to my estate agent.. I was informed it was to comply with regulations

Mrs OBumble · 23-01-2020 10:23am

ted1 wrote: »

Cover up or put right ?

Cover up.

The AML procedure should have been followed at the time of the sale. It wasn't. Who knows what else was wrong with things.

Marcusm · 23-01-2020 11:26am

ted1 wrote: »

Cover up or put right ?

You can’t put it right after the event for a one-off transaction; that is why I distinguished between EAs and others with AML/KYC obligations who have ongoing responsibilities. EAs dealing with a sale gave a once-off opportunity.

Marcusm · 23-01-2020 11:28am

Steer55 wrote: »

Sold in recently and was asked to give copy of Id and recent bill to my estate agent.. I was informed it was to comply with regulations

This is what they have to do as part of the client on-boarding procedures, ie before marketing your property. In the OP’s case the house is long sold and it is too late for the EA to remediate the position.

Kleine Hundin · 23-01-2020 11:58am

Just an update here from the OP. I did clarify with the EA and gave the EA a copy of my photo ID through whatsapp. As I said my father said the EA wanted a photo which was not the case which has been clarified and resolved.

Yes they did a review of a customer files before an upcoming audit and realised that some records were incomplete. I never dealt with them directly as they were going through my father. Some things can slip though the net. The EA knows my father so I can see how it was overlooked during the 'onboarding' process. My father was working on my behalf. Maybe they had his id on file and not the legal owner.

I'm sure as a result of audits they will increase compliance and this will not be a big deal in future.

I had also have my bank contacting me last me for photo id after they reviewing their records even though I've had a bank account with them since school days in the 90s when opening a bank account was as simple matter, awh sure we know your father, no id or proof of address required then.

spaceHopper · 23-01-2020 3:42pm

Kleine Hundin wrote: »

Just an update here from the OP. I did clarify with the EA and gave the EA a copy of my photo ID through whatsapp. As I said my father said the EA wanted a photo which was not the case which has been clarified and resolved.

Yes they did a review of a customer files before an upcoming audit and realised that some records were incomplete. I never dealt with them directly as they were going through my father. Some things can slip though the net. The EA knows my father so I can see how it was overlooked during the 'onboarding' process. My father was working on my behalf. Maybe they had his id on file and not the legal owner.

I'm sure as a result of audits they will increase compliance and this will not be a big deal in future.

I had also have my bank contacting me last me for photo id after they reviewing their records even though I've had a bank account with them since school days in the 90s when opening a bank account was as simple matter, awh sure we know your father, no id or proof of address required then.

If the EA was a friend of you fathers why ask about giving him ID here in the first place, did you not trust him?

Personally I don't like the nanny surveillance state where it starts to creep, like the Public services card role over reaching it's scope, what becomes normal today get pushed further and further next thing it's a CCTV camera with facial recognition and you can't say boo, see china and social credit system.

I had AIB writing to me looking for photo ID, if I didn't send it xyx was going to happen.

Turned out they have been audited and had no photos on a central file but they were often in the branches, it was easier for them to tell a white lie to the customers and make them jump through hoops to send in bills and copies of id than to sort out their own house.

I ignored it and nothing happens to me.

It's your ID it's up to you how it's used and if it's copied. I'm always happy to show it but I don't allow it to be copped unless I know the person or company very well.

AIB have very bad IT practices, for example I had to complain to their Data protection department to get unsubscribed from their marketing emails despite doing it may self 3 times and calling them as before.

Claw Hammer · 24-01-2020 12:09pm

AIB are terrible. the online system makes you take cookies.

Kleine Hundin · 24-01-2020 3:30pm

spaceHopper wrote: »

If the EA was a friend of you fathers why ask about giving him ID here in the first place, did you not trust him?

.

This is Ireland. He knows him probably by way he went to school with his second cousin or some other loose connection. Not that they are drinking buddies or business partners.

I only wanted some context from other people about photo requests from EA.

And just because my father trusts/knows him doesn't mean I should not have been vigilant hence my question here.

The topic of proof of identity and nanny state is a whole other discussion.

Estate Agent requesting a photo of me

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