Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Clegg · 26-10-2019 8:37pm

connachta wrote: »

The only Farrell deseving a talk tonight is Tom Farrell
Will be precisely 30 y.o and should be in RWC in 2023
TBF the rest of Connacht team looks light tonight, but Tom has a good chance to impress! Dillane may too.

If Farrell could actually start for Connacht we might see him making extended Ireland squads. As it stands we're praying that Ringrose doesn't get injured. He's the only quality 13 in Ireland right now

Shefwedfan · 26-10-2019 8:41pm

I think Connacht players have a great chance this sesaon if they perform in the HC....

No matter how they play in the Pro 14, it is still the Pro 14

Neil3030 · 26-10-2019 8:45pm

It'll be interesting to see how England perform in the final, and whether they emptied the tank against NZ.

It's possibly hindsight biasing things, but Ireland just seem to be a level below NZ and Eng in terms of skill and athleticism. We're wiley grafters, and will always have it in our locker to beat these teams on our day when a few things go our way. But we simply don't have the speed, power and ball handling across the team that seems to now be the standard at the very top. And I don't think you can compensate; if you're not winning the collisions and moving the ball quickly into the very short-lived space that ensues, I don't think there's any way to consistently make up for that.

And sadly it just doesn't seem to be in our DNA. We have been a fairly homogenous gene pool until quite recently, not exactly tuned to produce power and size. Our tiny population also puts us at a distinct disadvantage.

It really doesn't look good going forward. The game is moving increasingly toward NFL levels of athleticism and attrition, and I fear we'll be left behind.

The Rape of Lucretia · 26-10-2019 9:25pm

Just because the wc squad didn't do better in Japan doesn't mean they weren't nevertheless the best available. Disappointment is no grounds to just chop and change the squad or go picking Connacht players just because they are playing well for Connacht. Not picking on Connacht particularly, but in truth there isn't a single player there within range of displacing one of the 1st choice Japan 23. Debatably justified when Connacht the team was winning the P14, but very few of them stuck despite being given chances. In hindsight, were Balham, Dillane etc just a misguided 'reward' chance, and the likes of persistently not picking TOH, and the speedy wingers, entirely justified despite the clamour for them at the time?

Shefwedfan · 26-10-2019 10:00pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how England perform in the final, and whether they emptied the tank against NZ.

It's possibly hindsight biasing things, but Ireland just seem to be a level below NZ and Eng in terms of skill and athleticism. We're wiley grafters, and will always have it in our locker to beat these teams on our day when a few things go our way. But we simply don't have the speed, power and ball handling across the team that seems to now be the standard at the very top. And I don't think you can compensate; if you're not winning the collisions and moving the ball quickly into the very short-lived space that ensues, I don't think there's any way to consistently make up for that.

And sadly it just doesn't seem to be in our DNA. We have been a fairly homogenous gene pool until quite recently, not exactly tuned to produce power and size. Our tiny population also puts us at a distinct disadvantage.

It really doesn't look good going forward. The game is moving increasingly toward NFL levels of athleticism and attrition, and I fear we'll be left behind.

The game is going to change.....everyone seems certain that the 50:22 rule will come in next season, below from rte news

Already mooted was a 50:22 kick proposal, which would reward a team with the throw-in from a lineout should they kick the ball from inside their own half and get it to bounce before going out in the opposition 22 or if kicked from their own 22 into touch indirectly in the opposition half.

This will make a difference and could help Ireland....our style was going to have to change so if this rule is going to come in we might as well start planning now....

In this situation it makes more sense to have two excellent kickers on the pitch, Carbery and potential another....

Shefwedfan · 26-10-2019 10:04pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Just because the wc squad didn't do better in Japan doesn't mean they weren't nevertheless the best available. Disappointment is no grounds to just chop and change the squad or go picking Connacht players just because they are playing well for Connacht. Not picking on Connacht particularly, but in truth there isn't a single player there within range of displacing one of the 1st choice Japan 23. Debatably justified when Connacht the team was winning the P14, but very few of them stuck despite being given chances. In hindsight, were Balham, Dillane etc just a misguided 'reward' chance, and the likes of persistently not picking TOH, and the speedy wingers, entirely justified despite the clamour for them at the time?

Dillane is only 25, when Toner was 25 most people said he wouldn't make it.

I really like Dillane as a player and I hope he comes on now and really pushs for a starting spot in the Irish team. I always liked him as a player. He had a great start and then went out of form for a while which was understandable but I think this is his season to push on.....

Dillane, Ryan, Henderson, Kleyn would give some nice options

AbusesToilets · 26-10-2019 10:14pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Just because the wc squad didn't do better in Japan doesn't mean they weren't nevertheless the best available. Disappointment is no grounds to just chop and change the squad or go picking Connacht players just because they are playing well for Connacht. Not picking on Connacht particularly, but in truth there isn't a single player there within range of displacing one of the 1st choice Japan 23. Debatably justified when Connacht the team was winning the P14, but very few of them stuck despite being given chances. In hindsight, were Balham, Dillane etc just a misguided 'reward' chance, and the likes of persistently not picking TOH, and the speedy wingers, entirely justified despite the clamour for them at the time?

Disagree, I think there are a bunch of them who could still be worth investing in. How much of an opportunity did any of them really get? Bealham and Aki are probably the only ones who got significant chances. It was token cap and some camp time.

Wegians89 · 26-10-2019 11:33pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dillane is only 25, when Toner was 25 most people said he wouldn't make it.

I really like Dillane as a player and I hope he comes on now and really pushs for a starting spot in the Irish team. I always liked him as a player. He had a great start and then went out of form for a while which was understandable but I think this is his season to push on.....

Dillane, Ryan, Henderson, Kleyn would give some nice options

If a second row from Connacht breaks into that Irish squad I’d back thornbury personally. Think he offers something similar to toner but with more physicality and mobility, not as smart a line out operator but he’s young yet.

Former Former · 26-10-2019 11:38pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dillane is only 25, when Toner was 25 most people said he wouldn't make it.

I really like Dillane as a player and I hope he comes on now and really pushs for a starting spot in the Irish team. I always liked him as a player. He had a great start and then went out of form for a while which was understandable but I think this is his season to push on.....

Dillane, Ryan, Henderson, Kleyn would give some nice options

Dillane isn't starting for Connacht at the moment AFAIK, he's got some work to do.

VayNiice · 27-10-2019 6:21am

I'm very keen to see what way Farrell moves forward with our back row. Given how young and powerful the English back row is, we'll struggle to live with them for the foreseeable unless there are some big changes.
I think of everyone, Dan Leavy's value has risen the most, despite not playing. We missed his physicality and aggression massively. But who knows if he'll ever reach the same level again after his injury?

The only other Irish player who can come close to Leavy is Ruddock imo but he seems destined to live in POMs shadow.

I despair to think of ever having to see a back row of POM, VdF and Stander again. I'm a big VdF fan but between the three of them theres zero attacking threat. I'd really like to see Farrell move on to new options at 6 and 8. POM and Stander have had a full year to revive their form and have trotted out ****e over and over. Picking a player because he's delivered against an opposition before 11 months ago and played like a drain since is not good enough. Instead of ripping the lads a new arse hole in the post match reviews and picking them again regardless they need to be dropped. That will drive performances far more.

It'd be great to see Doris, Deegan or Rea get a chance this year.

Shefwedfan · 27-10-2019 7:35am

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm very keen to see what way Farrell moves forward with our back row. Given how young and powerful the English back row is, we'll struggle to live with them for the foreseeable unless there are some big changes.
I think of everyone, Dan Leavy's value has risen the most, despite not playing. We missed his physicality and aggression massively. But who knows if he'll ever reach the same level again after his injury?

The only other Irish player who can come close to Leavy is Ruddock imo but he seems destined to live in POMs shadow.

I despair to think of ever having to see a back row of POM, VdF and Stander again. I'm a big VdF fan but between the three of them theres zero attacking threat. I'd really like to see Farrell move on to new options at 6 and 8. POM and Stander have had a full year to revive their form and have trotted out ****e over and over. Picking a player because he's delivered against an opposition before 11 months ago and played like a drain since is not good enough. Instead of ripping the lads a new arse hole in the post match reviews and picking them again regardless they need to be dropped. That will drive performances far more.

It'd be great to see Doris, Deegan or Rea get a chance this year.

I think Stander has done ok, problem is he is lined up by 3-4 players as they know the ball will go to him, I think it was first line out v NZ and he was nailed.,....this is typical with him and VDF and POM is same line up

Neil3030 · 27-10-2019 9:02am

I mostly only watch him play for Ireland but can CJ actually pass the ball? If so, he, along with our other forwards, need to start making more of a habit of same.

VayNiice · 27-10-2019 9:16am

Neil3030 wrote: »

I mostly only watch him play for Ireland but can CJ actually pass the ball? If so, he, along with our other forwards, need to start making more of a habit of same.

There's a few lads in the team with hands like a pair of tits the way they've been dropping the ball left right and centre. You'd swear they don't even expect to be passed the ball sometimes

blinding · 27-10-2019 9:22am

Passing is for cissys . Charge up , get knocked back , and keep doing it .

lawrencesummers · 27-10-2019 9:32am

VayNiice wrote: »

There's a few lads in the team with hands like a pair of tits the way they've been dropping the ball left right and centre. You'd swear they don't even expect to be passed the ball sometimes

Whatever about CJ, Henshaws handling in the RWC was appalling. For a midfielder it was horrific to watch the mistakes he was making.

Neil3030 · 27-10-2019 9:38am

Of the 15 who started against NZ, aside from Murray and Sexton, I'd argue only Tadhg, Ryan and Ringer have hands that are anything worth talking about. Maybe VdF....

KWAG2019 · 27-10-2019 10:12am

Neil3030 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how England perform in the final, and whether they emptied the tank against NZ.

It's possibly hindsight biasing things, but Ireland just seem to be a level below NZ and Eng in terms of skill and athleticism. We're wiley grafters, and will always have it in our locker to beat these teams on our day when a few things go our way. But we simply don't have the speed, power and ball handling across the team that seems to now be the standard at the very top. And I don't think you can compensate; if you're not winning the collisions and moving the ball quickly into the very short-lived space that ensues, I don't think there's any way to consistently make up for that.

And sadly it just doesn't seem to be in our DNA. We have been a fairly homogenous gene pool until quite recently, not exactly tuned to produce power and size. Our tiny population also puts us at a distinct disadvantage.

It really doesn't look good going forward. The game is moving increasingly toward NFL levels of athleticism and attrition, and I fear we'll be left behind.

Thread. All the rest is noise. We do not have the mobility, let alone the speed or the handling to compete at the top table. Add to that the inability to compete at the collision anymore and the end of the Schmidt era is very understandable. Hard to see anything but a trough for provinces and Ireland for quite some time.

shootermacg · 27-10-2019 10:39am

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Thread. All the rest is noise. We do not have the mobility, let alone the speed or the handling to compete at the top table. Add to that the inability to compete at the collision anymore and the end of the Schmidt era is very understandable. Hard to see anything but a trough for provinces and Ireland for quite some time.

I wouldn't be so down. We've some pretty good players coming through and Larkham is trying to get an expansive game going at Munster, so you'd have to think the ball handling will pick up.

Squidgy Black · 27-10-2019 10:55am

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm very keen to see what way Farrell moves forward with our back row. Given how young and powerful the English back row is, we'll struggle to live with them for the foreseeable unless there are some big changes.
I think of everyone, Dan Leavy's value has risen the most, despite not playing. We missed his physicality and aggression massively. But who knows if he'll ever reach the same level again after his injury?

The only other Irish player who can come close to Leavy is Ruddock imo but he seems destined to live in POMs shadow.

I despair to think of ever having to see a back row of POM, VdF and Stander again. I'm a big VdF fan but between the three of them theres zero attacking threat. I'd really like to see Farrell move on to new options at 6 and 8. POM and Stander have had a full year to revive their form and have trotted out ****e over and over. Picking a player because he's delivered against an opposition before 11 months ago and played like a drain since is not good enough. Instead of ripping the lads a new arse hole in the post match reviews and picking them again regardless they need to be dropped. That will drive performances far more.

It'd be great to see Doris, Deegan or Rea get a chance this year.

Conan was unlucky to get injured, I think if he'd stayed fit there was a good chance he was going to unseat CJ. He's an 8 who can pass, has great feet too in terms of shifting the point of contact and has made some lovely linebreaks for Leinster.

The Rape of Lucretia · 27-10-2019 11:00am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Conan was unlucky to get injured, I think if he'd stayed fit there was a good chance he was going to unseat CJ. He's an 8 who can pass, has great feet too in terms of shifting the point of contact and has made some lovely linebreaks for Leinster.

No. He would have unsat POM. CJ at 6, without Danno would have been our best back row. Maybe its time to look at Hendie at 6.

tryagain · 27-10-2019 12:23pm

GREAT IDEA throw hendo into backrow maybe start Penny and start mcgrath at scrumhalf move henshaw to full back for next worl cup larmour on wing get stockdale to smarten up in defence we have to use our player base smarter this world cup was so bad .

blinding · 27-10-2019 12:52pm

tryagain wrote: »

GREAT IDEA throw hendo into backrow maybe start Penny and start mcgrath at scrumhalf move henshaw to full back for next worl cup larmour on wing get stockdale to smarten up in defence we have to use our player base smarter this world cup was so bad .

Do you seriously think Henshaw is going to be around for the next World Cup with his injury record , the attrition of his position and the way he plays ? He will probably be lucky to get two more years playing at a decent level .

tryagain · 27-10-2019 1:12pm

Henshaw has been set up as a grab and bash player but earlier in his career he had a great rugby brain and eye for space but these decisions need to be made right away. Scotland will come to Aviva in total transition start now we only need to make slight adjustments and peak at right time if we win 2 six nation in next world cup cycle winning breeds winners only thing that matters in world cup is winning it ,out in quarter or semi makes no difference we also need to look at other players C farrell can make a great center and can offload with Ringrose. Aki as an impact sub not subbed but impact use Carbery go with him now and Mcgrath speed up our attack and our players need to get fitter like the welsh they seem to be fitter than us all the time we need to stop moaning man up go again we beat NZ first time ever 3 years ago and again last year so we are going right direction but now we need to make adjustments now .

Shefwedfan · 27-10-2019 2:09pm

What about stop looking at a 4 year project and just break it up into a 2 and 2 year project

Freshen up the squad now but don’t throw out some of the more experienced players and see how it goes for 2 years

Then in 2 years time see who will/won’t make WC and then just concentrate on those players....we will have view then who has come up from u20 grand slam team etc...

We are constantly looking at 4 year plans but it doesn’t seem to work

Just an idea

I am not saying we shouldn’t change our style or not to drop players not performing

Just not to spend 4 years going on about a WC

bilston · 27-10-2019 2:43pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What about stop looking at a 4 year project and just break it up into a 2 and 2 year project

Freshen up the squad now but don’t throw out some of the more experienced players and see how it goes for 2 years

Then in 2 years time see who will/won’t make WC and then just concentrate on those players....we will have view then who has come up from u20 grand slam team etc...

We are constantly looking at 4 year plans but it doesn’t seem to work

Just an idea

I am not saying we shouldn’t change our style or not to drop players not performing

Just not to spend 4 years going on about a WC

To be fair I don't think Ireland have ever taken the approach of looking at it from a 4 year cycle perspective.

In truth you don't need to be building for the 2023 WC from the 2020 Six Nations, that said that doesn't mean our squad doesn't need freshening up, which to be you say yourself. It's not even necessarily a case of changing the personnel, but we need to change something.

I didn't think I'd say this a year ago but I think Joe has timed his exit well. Every coach has a shelf life and I think Joe had just about reached his, just like Eddie in 2008 and Deccie in 2013, although those two stayed on a year too long.

AbusesToilets · 27-10-2019 4:30pm

First objective has to be identifying how Farrell wants the team to play. Then selecting players who can fit that style.

I disagree about Ireland not having the ability to match England or NZ in terms of power or speed. That's just S&C, nothing magical about it. There's always going to be players like Vunipola, no point stressing about trying to match 0.01% genetic extreme. A more professional approach at the youth level would lay strong foundations for players coming through. If you look to the US, there are kids playing high school football who would put pro players to shame in the gym. That's what we should be aiming for, in a general sense.

bilston · 27-10-2019 8:23pm

I'm trying to figure out where we are going next June.

From I can tell we are playing two tests in Australia and then possibly a game against Fiji. Anyone able to confirm or deny this? The Australia games seem pretty much vonfirmed, but they aren't up on the IRFU website.

Neil3030 · 27-10-2019 8:54pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

First objective has to be identifying how Farrell wants the team to play. Then selecting players who can fit that style.

I disagree about Ireland not having the ability to match England or NZ in terms of power or speed. That's just S&C, nothing magical about it. There's always going to be players like Vunipola, no point stressing about trying to match 0.01% genetic extreme. A more professional approach at the youth level would lay strong foundations for players coming through. If you look to the US, there are kids playing high school football who would put pro players to shame in the gym. That's what we should be aiming for, in a general sense.

15 years ago, borderline professional training programs had already arrived. Weights sessions each morning, pitch session Monday Tuesday, Thursday, games on Wednesday and Sataurday. 3 of 5 lunch breaks devoted to team meetings. Video analysis sessions. Individual training programs for all players during the summer. Dietitians and supplement programs. Can only imagine what it's like now.

The problem is, only a handful of schools have the resources for this approach. Plus at some point you have to ask yourself what you're expecting kids to do, and what kind of childhood this gives them.

As for US high school athletes, of course you'll have more freak athletes in a country with a wider mix of genes, 100 times the population and far more PED usage amongst athletes trying to win college scholarships. Logistically we cannot and morally we should absolutely not replicate their system.

Shefwedfan · 27-10-2019 10:07pm

I seen in paper Ireland have a 3 match tour of NZ in 2022? Is that confirmed?

Starting to stick away the pennies if so an head over to see a cracking series win

The Lost Sheep · 27-10-2019 10:42pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I seen in paper Ireland have a 3 match tour of NZ in 2022? Is that confirmed?

Starting to stick away the pennies if so an head over to see a cracking series win

dont think so. We are going to oz next summer though I had thought we were due to go to Argentina based on world rugby tours schedule which was made years back.
And that tours schedule had us not going to new zealand at least 2024

Shefwedfan · 27-10-2019 10:49pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

dont think so. We are going to oz next summer though I had thought we were due to go to Argentina based on world rugby tours schedule which was made years back.
And that tours schedule had us not going to new zealand at least 2024

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-set-for-three-test-tour-of-new-zealand-in-2022-1.3696787

I think it was in Sunday Indo today....

DGRulz · 27-10-2019 10:49pm

Saw this mentioned on Reddit yesterday, only one test vs Ireland confirmed but is also says full schedule to be confirmed so it could change later.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/10/26/wallabies-2020-suncorp-bledisloe-ireland

thomond2006 · 27-10-2019 11:46pm

I understand it's a money game but that makes it close to a year long season when you consider the August warm-ups. Ridiculous.

AbusesToilets · 28-10-2019 12:20am

Neil3030 wrote: »

15 years ago, borderline professional training programs had already arrived. Weights sessions each morning, pitch session Monday Tuesday, Thursday, games on Wednesday and Sataurday. 3 of 5 lunch breaks devoted to team meetings. Video analysis sessions. Individual training programs for all players during the summer. Dietitians and supplement programs. Can only imagine what it's like now.

The problem is, only a handful of schools have the resources for this approach. Plus at some point you have to ask yourself what you're expecting kids to do, and what kind of childhood this gives them.

As for US high school athletes, of course you'll have more freak athletes in a country with a wider mix of genes, 100 times the population and far more PED usage amongst athletes trying to win college scholarships. Logistically we cannot and morally we should absolutely not replicate their system.

Wouldn't disagree, but I think that's the nature of professional sports nowadays. Most of them pretty much require an early commitment to focus on the sport over school etc to succeed.

Squidgy Black · 28-10-2019 12:25am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I understand it's a money game but that makes it close to a year long season when you consider the August warm-ups. Ridiculous.

Been that way for a while now unfortunately. The turnaround between 6 Nations to European knockout games to the Summer tours and then the Autumn internationals is always ridiculous and ends up forcing players into rotation and forced rest periods. Especially when you ramp up the intensity of the summer tours and unlike the USA games or Japan etc.

Still not as bad as some of the Southern hemisphere sides, who play SR from Feb to June, play summer tour games in June, could be in the knockout stages of SR in July, then play Rugby Championship in August/September, then Autumn internationals.

AbusesToilets · 28-10-2019 12:49am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Been that way for a while now unfortunately. The turnaround between 6 Nations to European knockout games to the Summer tours and then the Autumn internationals is always ridiculous and ends up forcing players into rotation and forced rest periods. Especially when you ramp up the intensity of the summer tours and unlike the USA games or Japan etc.

Still not as bad as some of the Southern hemisphere sides, who play SR from Feb to June, play summer tour games in June, could be in the knockout stages of SR in July, then play Rugby Championship in August/September, then Autumn internationals.

So many of the ills in the sport are directly related to the calendar being so ****, and truthfully the 6Ns takes a large portion of the blame for that. If they acquiesced to moving the tournament forward, it could free up the space to allow domestic competitions to complete beforehand. Add a B&I league, or better yet a pan European one, and rugby would be in a lot better situation.

Shefwedfan · 28-10-2019 8:03am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So many of the ills in the sport are directly related to the calendar being so ****, and truthfully the 6Ns takes a large portion of the blame for that. If they acquiesced to moving the tournament forward, it could free up the space to allow domestic competitions to complete beforehand. Add a B&I league, or better yet a pan European one, and rugby would be in a lot better situation.

6 nations is on at a time no other major sport is on so gets good revenue which keeps the unions afloat

Not sure why people would want to move

Scythica · 28-10-2019 8:38am

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Faugheen · 28-10-2019 9:31am

Scythica wrote: »

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Whatever about McCloskey, but Ringrose is the best and most complete 13 we have by a country mile.

VayNiice · 28-10-2019 9:55am

Scythica wrote: »

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Farrells passing and offloading has been very good when he's been given the chance. I think a Farrell - Ringrose midfield would give us some good hands and powerful running together.

Clegg · 28-10-2019 10:01am

I like the idea of a bruiser at 12 and stepper at 13. Buy Chris Farrell isn't really an inside centre. I know he's played there a bit for Ireland, but he's mostly an outside centre.

Henshaw didn't have his best showing in the tournament, but he was only back from injury. I'd like to see him get another opportunity at 12. But hopefully in an attacking system that allows him, or any player, greater freedom.

blinding · 28-10-2019 10:03am

We definitely need to attack with a bit of flair ....if only to raise the spirits .

Wegians89 · 28-10-2019 10:05am

Scythica wrote: »

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

If you’re looking for an offload, Tom Farrell is the man. Been top of those charts for a couple of years. Would like to see him get back into the Connacht team and then potentially be Ringroses understudy at 13

Clegg · 28-10-2019 10:47am

We need to get more from our back three. There were times this year when I felt our only strategy was to get the ball to Stockdale asap.The problem there was we weren't creating space for him. He'd get the ball and be facing a set defensive line. Couple that with his dip in form at the world cup and it made for a very disappointing tournament for him.

The main problem, however, is the way we use our wings. We don't see enough of Stockdale or Earls coming off the wing other than for set plays. Ringrose is one of our most elusive runners. Get the wings to run a trailing line off him and see what happens. James Lowe is particularly good at coming into midfield on a lone and breaking the defence. I know the player eligibility rules aren't a popular topic, but he's getting capped if he wants it. May as well find a way that gets the best out of the players at our disposal.

Utah_Saint · 28-10-2019 10:54am

Wegians89 wrote: »

If you’re looking for an offload, Tom Farrell is the man. Been top of those charts for a couple of years. Would like to see him get back into the Connacht team and then potentially be Ringroses understudy at 13

I think i posted something similar on Boards a few months back with the Stats for the centres in Ireland. I didn't fight Stu's case much but its def worth considering. I probably fell into 'He doesn't know the systems' camp

https://twitter.com/enhance_p/status/1134432084519510016?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1135523620858601473&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportsjoe.ie%2Frugby%2Fstuart-mccloskey-included-ireland-squad-202232

Based on Stats alone you would say Ringrose and Stu are a combo to look at

blinding · 28-10-2019 10:57am

Stockdale is an attacking winger . We certainly didn’t give him much opportunity to show his attacking talents .

Utah_Saint · 28-10-2019 10:59am

blinding wrote: »

Stockdale is an attacking winger . We certainly didn’t give him much opportunity to show his attacking talents .

Stockdale was poor during the WC but as mentioned by other poster; when he eventually got the ball the defences were set and he was usual facing two defenders.

is_that_so · 28-10-2019 11:02am

blinding wrote: »

Stockdale is an attacking winger . We certainly didn’t give him much opportunity to show his attacking talents .

Yeah but he still needs better defence skills, as part of the back 3. He's very good and powerful in a straight line but can't jink or vary it like Ringrose and Larmour.

blinding · 28-10-2019 11:05am

You’d primarily put Stockade in your team for attack . For this you have to give him opportunities to attack .

Obviously he needs to improve his defence but if you want a winger that is a better defender maybe Stockade is not the winger for you particularly in the short term .

Utah_Saint · 28-10-2019 11:12am

blinding wrote: »

You’d primarily put Stockade in your team for attack . For this you have to give him opportunities to attack .

Obviously he needs to improve his defence but if you want a winger that is a better defender maybe Stockade is not the winger for you particularly in the short term .

This.

I think this is a good point you raise. Obviously Defence is critical but do you think England, SA or New Zealand picked their wingers for Defence? Jonny May is like a turnstile but who cares when he can run like he does. Maybe its years of indoctrination (well before Joes time) that the first thing we look for in a winger is if he can hit a ruck...

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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