Landlord not sharing address and Tenancy Notice Period

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:07pm #1

Original post was messed up and hence taking off content. Will either add new content or requst mod to remove it.

Appreciate feedback given by all. Thanks everyone.

03-06-2020 8:30pm

The LL does not have to provide their contact details if there is an agent acting on their behalf.

See Landlord Responsibilities:

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/rights-and-responsibilities/

03-06-2020 8:34pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The LL does not have to provide their contact details if there is an agent acting on their behalf.

See Landlord Responsibilities:

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/rights-and-responsibilities/

You seem to have one of the rest of the post. Agency told tenant to ask for address, after they’d asked for it.

Darc19 · 03-06-2020 8:35pm

You rented from an agency who was acting on behalf of the landlord.

You send all notifications to them

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:35pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The LL does not have to provide their contact details if there is an agent acting on their behalf.

See Landlord Responsibilities:

We were informed that it is LL Managed property.

banie01 · 03-06-2020 8:37pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The LL does not have to provide their contact details if there is an agent acting on their behalf.

See Landlord Responsibilities:

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/rights-and-responsibilities/

There is an agent in place. There is no need for the LL address to be provided to you.

Serving notice to the agent fulfils the notice obligation.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:39pm

Darc19 wrote: »

You rented from an agency who was acting on behalf of the landlord.

You send all notifications to them

I did email them with notice, with no firm date as I assumed it is fixed per lease agreement. LL & myself got involved on a chat where we discussed Rent reduction. Agency was not even in loop.

How can they say, notice starts from now.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:40pm

banie01 wrote: »

There is an agent in place. There is no need for the LL address to be provided to you.

Serving notice to the agent fulfils the notice obligation.

My bad if that is the case :-(

03-06-2020 8:41pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You seem to have one of the rest of the post. Agency told tenant to ask for address, after they’d asked for it.

If the Agent is acting on behalf of the LL and their contact details are on the lease agreement, that is who the op should contact when serving notice, not the LL. I doubt the letting agent can give the LLs address without the LLs permission, the op could have asked the LL directly for this when they spoke.

03-06-2020 8:42pm

Dav010 wrote: »

If the Agent is acting on behalf of the LL and their contact details are on the lease agreement, that is who the op should contact when serving notice, not the LL. I doubt the letting agent can give the LLs address without the LLs permission, the op could have asked the LL directly for this when they spoke.

Why did they tell them to ask for the LL address then?

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:44pm

Dav010 wrote: »

If the Agent is acting on behalf of the LL and their contact details are on the lease agreement, that is who the op should contact when serving notice, not the LL. I doubt the letting agent can give the LLs address without the LLs permission, the op could have asked the LL directly for this when they spoke.

Point taken

03-06-2020 8:46pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Why did they tell them to ask for the LL address then?

Presumably because they were not in a position to give that information, but of course the LL himself can.

The RTB site says that an Agent acting on behalf of a LL can deal with termination of tenancies.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:47pm

Dav010 wrote: »

If the Agent is acting on behalf of the LL and their contact details are on the lease agreement, that is who the op should contact when serving notice, not the LL. I doubt the letting agent can give the LLs address without the LLs permission, the op could have asked the LL directly for this when they spoke.

Why LL playing the card that LL- OP had discussion was in progress and hence they will not consider original notice

03-06-2020 8:48pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Presumably because they were not in a position to give that information, but of course the LL himself can.

The RTB site says that an Agent acting on behalf of a LL can deal with termination of tenancies.

No, the angecy told them to ask for the LL address when they called asking for notice. Go back and read the OP as you’ve only cherry picked what you want at this stage.

03-06-2020 8:56pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

No, the angecy told them to ask for the LL address when they called asking for notice. Go back and read the OP as you’ve only cherry picked what you want at this stage.

I’ve read it, it’s kinda hard to follow. I’m trying to see if the op has actually served written notice of termination to anyone. The RTB allows for an Agent to act on the LLs behalf, the op has their details and should really have just sent the notice to them.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 8:58pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’ve read it, it’s kinda hard to follow. I’m trying to see if the op has actually served written notice of termination to anyone. The RTB allows for an Agent to act on the LLs behalf, the op has their details and should really have just sent the notice to them.

LL is contact point as per lease.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 9:26pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Fair point, that could have been included in your op.

Did you ask the Agent if they would accept written notice on LLs behalf?

Just in relation to the last point in your op, did the mould cause you pain and suffering?

They informed LL after my email with notice. LL confirmed and allowed issuance of a reference letter. Thus, this should be fine.

LL kept on playing carrot and stick as delay tactics simply to get over June COVID restrictions.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 9:49pm

Dav010 wrote: »

No disrespect, but it’s kinda hard to follow your posts. If you haven’t given written notice, then your notice is not valid. I do appreciate that you have been messed around, but if the agent acts for the LL and they can accept notice, you could have just sent it to them. Did you actually ask them if they could accept it on the LLs behalf?

I’m not a lawyer, you will know more about this than me obviously, but to seek damages, don’t you have to show that your pain and suffering was caused by the LL?

The forum for tenancy disputes is the RTB rather than the Law Courts.

I know it is a messed up post. Apologies. Agent had informed his office is closed due to COVID 19 and so not sure where I would have served notice.

Point is they are annoyed over why I discarded rent reduction. What they missed is - They cannot offer, change it and when we refuse then offer it again.

Apartment is in prime Dublin location and can be let in 2-3 days. We also got house in 2 days and lost few apartments to others in 2-3 days.

Who offers Rent discount in a location with a big mall in Dublin South, at rent of one bed apartment.

randommviewss · 03-06-2020 9:51pm

Dav010 wrote: »

No disrespect, but it’s kinda hard to follow your posts. If you haven’t given written notice, then your notice is not valid. I do appreciate that you have been messed around, but if the agent acts for the LL and they can accept notice, you could have just sent it to them. Did you actually ask them if they could accept it on the LLs behalf?

I’m not a lawyer, you will know more about this than me obviously, but to seek damages, don’t you have to show that your pain and suffering was caused by the LL?

The forum for tenancy disputes is the RTB rather than the Law Courts.

Fair Point. Ignore any such thoughts :-)

TSQ · 03-06-2020 11:21pm

randommviewss wrote: »

Fair Point. Law court for changing terms of a verbal agreement to cause harassment and loss to other party.

Also, selectively playing delay tactics with an intent to deceive.

My head is in a spin reading your various posts. If you are thinking of going to court with this, I really suggest you dont represent yourself.

10pennymixup · 03-06-2020 11:36pm

randommviewss wrote: »

Fair Point. Law court for changing terms of a verbal agreement to cause harassment and loss to other party.

Also, selectively playing delay tactics with an intent to deceive.

You're over analyzing this and are too close to the fire. One of the first lessons you should have learnt is "A person who represents himself at trial has a fool for a client".

You have emails to the LL's agent that you're giving the required notice.

Leave at the appropriate time and if you LL acts the maggot, you have the RTB.

randommviewss · 04-06-2020 9:49am

10pennymixup wrote: »

You're over analyzing this and are too close to the fire. One of the first lessons you should have learnt is "A person who represents himself at trial has a fool for a client".

You have emails to the LL's agent that you're giving the required notice.

Leave at the appropriate time and if you LL acts the maggot, you have the RTB.

Agree. No point doing all this. I rest it all here.

Damn, I messed up big time in terms of writing skills or lack of it in this instance. lol

Sorry for un organized post.

randommviewss · 04-06-2020 10:01am

TSQ wrote: »

My head is in a spin reading your various posts. If you are thinking of going to court with this, I really suggest you dont represent yourself.

My head was spinning, when I had written these. I can now relate your feeling. Thanks for being honest :-).

Damn, I was not thinking straight. Appreciate all folks here.

mel123 · 08-06-2020 4:32pm

Just wondering to those in the know, you dont have to give your tenant your address do you? I never got any address from any LL i rented from. The RTB says 'contact details' on the website, doesnt specifically mention address. I wouldnt be comfortable as a LL giving out my personal address.

randommviewss · 08-06-2020 8:10pm

mel123 wrote: »

Just wondering to those in the know, you dont have to give your tenant your address do you? I never got any address from any LL i rented from. The RTB says 'contact details' on the website, doesnt specifically mention address. I wouldnt be comfortable as a LL giving out my personal address.

You can share your house as he pays rent, but not own address. RTB web-sites puts an obligation on LL for sharing his address.

Do dig in more. RTB did say LL was in breach of his obligation.

FYI - I am a landlord in back home, tenant knows even where I work forget about my home address.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 1:01pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The LL does not have to provide their contact details if there is an agent acting on their behalf.

See Landlord Responsibilities:

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/rights-and-responsibilities/

What if the lease terms says notice to be served to person in certain clause where name of LL is only mentioned?

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 1:27pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’ve read it, it’s kinda hard to follow. I’m trying to see if the op has actually served written notice of termination to anyone. The RTB allows for an Agent to act on the LLs behalf, the op has their details and should really have just sent the notice to them.

It often happens that an agent only arranges the initial letting on behalf of the landlord and does not take part any further in the management of the property.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 1:49pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It often happens that an agent only arranges the initial letting on behalf of the landlord and does not take part any further in the management of the property.

I would agree. OP had asked agency for who is responsible and they gave LL address.

In above case as I could read, LL did not share his address to avoid COVID relet possible loss. Difficult to let during COVID and offered less rent and took it back later. Shame

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 1:51pm

The o/p is entitled to contact details for his landlord. He coulkd have served the notice at the rented property and just left. Nothing the LL could have done.

29-10-2020 1:58pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It often happens that an agent only arranges the initial letting on behalf of the landlord and does not take part any further in the management of the property.

If I remember correctly (op has been edited) the EA was dealing with the op in relation to rent review on behalf of the LL and that they did pass on op’s notice to the LL, which was acknowledged, but the op still wanted the LLs address.

29-10-2020 2:06pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The o/p is entitled to contact details for his landlord. He coulkd have served the notice at the rented property and just left. Nothing the LL could have done.

From RTB site.

A Landlord must:

Provide the tenant with contact details (or for the agent working on the landlords behalf).

The bracketed part is pertinent.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 2:11pm

Dav010 wrote: »

From RTB site.

A Landlord must:

Provide the tenant with contact details (or for the agent working on the landlords behalf).

The bracketed part is pertinent.

They used MUST, wow. Interesting. That is obligatory. Contact details does not imply address though.

In OP's case agent did not accept the responsibility and lease clause as per OP asked him to serve to contact in a clause. Clause of lease had name of LL.

I would say it was LL and it is a breach. Assuming all are factually correct.

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 2:13pm

Dav010 wrote: »

From RTB site.

t.

I prefer to look at the regulations themselves, rather than rely faqs on the RTB .

". (1) The landlord of a house to which these Regulations apply shall—

( a ) on the commencement of a tenancy, or

( b ) where a tenancy exists on the date on which these Regulations come into operation, within two months from such date,

provide the tenant of such house with a rent book or other documentation to the like effect (referred to in either case in these Regulations as "the rent book").

(2) The landlord shall, on provision of the rent book, enter therein in clearly legible writing—

( a ) the address of the house,

( b ) the name and address of the landlord and, if the landlord has duly appointed an agent, of such agent,"

29-10-2020 2:25pm

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/12/enacted/en/html#sec12

Section (e) allows the authorised agent to act on the LLs behalf in relation to the tenancy.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 2:39pm

Dav010 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/12/enacted/en/html#sec12

Section (e) allows the authorised agent to act on the LLs behalf in relation to the tenancy.

What if agency say go to LL?

What if lease clause say LL is contact for any notice under lease?

29-10-2020 2:47pm

pandaa wrote: »

What if agency say go to LL?

What if lease clause say LL is contact for any notice under lease?

According to the Act, an agent authorised to act on behalf of the LL can do so in matters relating to the tenancy, that would seem to include notice. In the ops case, bare in mind the op is gone, I think the Agent passed the notice on to the LL but the op still insisted on the LLs address.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 2:59pm

Dav010 wrote: »

According to the Act, an agent authorised to act on behalf of the LL can do so in matters relating to the tenancy, that would seem to include notice. In the ops case, bare in mind the op is gone, I think the Agent passed the notice on to the LL but the op still insisted on the LLs address.

OP could not serve notice to anyone. It was a ping pong. Lease read give notice to contact in clause x. Clause X read it as LL. He never got the address.

Agent can act, if applicable is an alternative, not the ONLY RECOURSE. Lease had a specific clause and hence general rule of thumb is irrelevant.

Irrespective of above, OP had asked agency whom should he serve a notice agency or LL. Agency point OP to LL. Agency acted in a certain way which also supports point above.

Sorry, I m new into law circle and going through posts to use it as a learning experience of law readings :-). You're good and possibly a LLM?

29-10-2020 3:08pm

pandaa wrote: »

OP said : Lease read give notice to contact in clause x. Clause X read it as LL.
Agent can act, if applicable is an alternative, not the ONLY RECOURSE. Lease had a specific clause and hence general rule of thumb is irrelevant.

Irrespective of above, OP had asked agency whom should he serve a notice agency or LL. Agency point OP to LL. Agency acted in a certain way which also supports point above.

Sorry, I m new into law circle and going through posts to use it as a learning experience of law readings :-). You're good and possibly a LLM?

Pandas, I’ll be honest, I found this thread and the op’s line of thinking hard to follow first time around.

Suffice to say, the Act does allow an Agent authorised by the LL to act on their behalf in all matters relating to the tenancy. So the tenant can give written notice to the authorised Agent.

Beyond that, Claw Hammer may have a different, and more valid viewpoint.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 3:20pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Pandas, I’ll be honest, I found this thread and the op’s line of thinking hard to follow first time around. And the PMs I have do point to a degree of misunderstanding of how notice is served, and to who, so I can’t really engage in a conversation which supports or rejects the op’s opinion.

Suffice to say, the Act does allow an Agent authorised by the LL to act on their behalf in all matters relating to the tenancy. So the tenant can give written notice to the authorised Agent.

Beyond that, Claw Hammer may have a different, and more valid viewpoint.

See I told you. You are good.

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 3:37pm

Dav010 wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/12/enacted/en/html#sec12

Section (e) allows the authorised agent to act on the LLs behalf in relation to the tenancy.

That section only mandates the landlord to tell the tenant who the agent is. It does not give powers to the agent.

29-10-2020 3:48pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That section only mandates the landlord to tell the tenant who the agent is. It does not give powers to the agent.

“the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy”

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 3:51pm

Dav010 wrote: »

“the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy”

That assumes there has been an agent appointed through some other means. It is not a section giving powers to an agent. A landlord can't secretly have an agent. The agent has to be duly appointed. There are restrictions on who can act as an agent.

29-10-2020 3:56pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That assumes there has been an agent appointed through some other means. It is not a section giving powers to an agent. A landlord can't secretly have an agent. The agent has to be duly appointed. There are restrictions on who can act as an agent.

A secret agent?

Link to restrictions please.

That Act says it can be a “person, if any, (the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy”

I see no mention of restrictions on the person.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 4:07pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

That assumes there has been an agent appointed through some other means. It is not a section giving powers to an agent. A landlord can't secretly have an agent. The agent has to be duly appointed. There are restrictions on who can act as an agent.

So, OP was right in asking for LL address. OP in his PM said that LL verbally said he did not give address because of bad expe of other in the past.

Leaving verbal part aside, OP was nt given address, was offered rent reduction which was rolled back and offered again, which he refused, due to trust issues.

So, who wins as LL claimed lack of written notice ?

29-10-2020 4:10pm

pandaa wrote: »

So, OP was right in asking for LL address. OP in his PM said that LL verbally said he did not give address because of bad expe of other in the past.

Leaving verbal part aside, OP was nt given address, was offered rent reduction which was rolled back and offered again, which he refused, due to trust issues.

So, who wins?

The crux of the op’s issue is that he/she insisted, whether rightly or wrongly, that notice be sent directly to the LL, when the Act allows for it to be sent to the Agent acting on the LLs behalf.

The op confirmed that the notice was passed by the EA to the LL, yet this was not acceptable to the op. Had the LL taken a dispute to the RTB, provided the notice was written and for the correct period, it’s fair to assume that the RTB would have concluded it was valid.

My understanding is that initially the notice was sent to the EA via email, this is not valid as it must be written. I explained this to the op, notice must always be written, again, his/her experience in another country was that it could be given via phone/email.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 4:14pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The crux of the op’s issue is that he/she insisted, whether rightly or wrongly, that notice be sent directly to the LL, when the Act allows for it to be sent to the Agent acting on the LLs behalf.

Where did OP Insisted? He asked agency for who?

OP simply asked agency, who is the contact point is it agency or LL. Agency simply gave LL's number. Agency also said offices are closed. of us.

how can OP insist when LEASE SAID, nptice should be sent to person in clause x which had name of LL.

He acted diligently by asking agency whom should I serve? No right or wrong question here at all.He shared PM with both

Seems we're in a court room. My Lord :-)

29-10-2020 4:17pm

pandaa wrote: »

Where did OP Insisted? He asked agency for who?

OP simply asked agency, who is the contact point is it agency or LL. Agency simply gave LL's number. Agency also said offices are closed. of us.

how can OP insist when LEASE SAID, nptice should be sent to person in clause x which had name of LL.

He acted diligently by asking agency whom should I serve? No right or wrong question here at all.He shared PM with both

Seems we're in a court room. My Lord :-)

I’m sorry, the op has been removed and contained more detail.

pandaa · 29-10-2020 4:18pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m sorry, the op has been removed and contained more detail.

Ur right.

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 4:25pm

Dav010 wrote: »

A secret agent?

Link to restrictions please.

That Act says it can be a “person, if any, (the “authorised agent”) who is authorised by the landlord to act on his or her behalf in relation to the tenancy”

I see no mention of restrictions on the person.

The property services regulatory act specifies who can act as an agent providing a property service.
The import of that section you are quoting is the landlord can't rely on the act or default of some person of whom the tenant is unaware.

29-10-2020 4:28pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The property services regulatory act specifies who can act as an agent providing a property service.
The import of that section you are quoting is the landlord can't rely on the act or default of some person of whom the tenant is unaware.

The RTA does not distinguish who the “person” can be, only that they are then acting as, and designated as the LLs “Agent”. Is there anything in the Act to prohibit a relative or a friend being that “person”

Claw Hammer · 29-10-2020 4:44pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The RTA does not distinguish who the “person” can be, only that they are then acting as, and designated as the LLs “Agent”. Is there anything in the Act to prohibit a relative or a friend being that “person”

It has nothing to do with the RTA.
property Services Regulation Act 2011
28.— (1) A person shall not—

(a) provide a property service,

(b) hold himself or herself out as available to provide a property service, or

(c) represent himself or herself by—

(i) advertisement, or

(ii) displaying any card or other object purporting to indicate that he or she is a licensee,

as available to provide a property service,

unless the person is the holder of a licence which is in force in respect of that property service.

Landlord not sharing address and Tenancy Notice Period

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