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DNA Analysis

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Comments

  • #502
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I've rooted out a few 'twice removed' cousins through the DNA. It tells us there is a link and we just have to keep looking.

    One we confirmed (or got on the right track to confirming) by something as simple as my pointing out we have a lot of Sarah/Sadie girls in the various threads of the family. Sure enough, the woman I was emailing remembered her Granny mentioning a sister with that name and we knew we were on the right track.

    The DNA's great but it doesn't replace the footwork.


  • #503
    DamoRed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    Given the concerns arising from recent revelations about my paternal grandparents and their children, it seems almost certain the only way to confirm one way or another is by DNA testing. However, as I'm reading the recent pages, I'm seeing terms like 'Y-testing' 'Haplogroup' and I've no idea what any of them mean and subsequently what type of test tells what, or what type of test is best to do.

    For those not familiar, it was said by my cousin, that my paternal grandparents 'raised/adopted' 4 girls, but, that 'as far as he knew' my father and his brother were their natural children. It'd be more comforting to know for certain beyond simple misunderstandings.

    Is there any site I can go to where these and other terms are explained and a recommendation for what test I take? From the simple background given above, it would appear what I need, is a test that determines whether I follow the paternal familial line. With that in mind, what kind of test do I need to do?


  • #504
    pjproby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 842 ✭✭✭pjproby


    80-year mystery of blackberry bush baby is solved using DNA
    http://dailym.ai/2GGhYT6

    Story from the Daily Mail today about DNA testing.


  • #505
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    DamoRed - you can start with our very own sticky on DNA!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #506
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    DamoRed wrote: »
    Given the concerns arising from recent revelations about my paternal grandparents and their children, it seems almost certain the only way to confirm one way or another is by DNA testing. However, as I'm reading the recent pages, I'm seeing terms like 'Y-testing' 'Haplogroup' and I've no idea what any of them mean and subsequently what type of test tells what, or what type of test is best to do.

    For those not familiar, it was said by my cousin, that my paternal grandparents 'raised/adopted' 4 girls, but, that 'as far as he knew' my father and his brother were their natural children. It'd be more comforting to know for certain beyond simple misunderstandings.

    Is there any site I can go to where these and other terms are explained and a recommendation for what test I take? From the simple background given above, it would appear what I need, is a test that determines whether I follow the paternal familial line. With that in mind, what kind of test do I need to do?

    Are you thinking your father and your Uncle were not brothers?
    Assuming the Damo in your name is the Damo we are familiar with, then I take it you are male.

    If you want to determine if these two men were brothers, you could figure it out if the other has a son.
    Both of you could take a Y DNA test, this type of test looks at the YDNA of males and tests the direct male line and will tell you your haplogroup (basically a mutation in the Y DNA which is passed down the male line).
    You inherit your haplogroup from your father, he got his from his father, him from his father and so on going back.
    This test can also estimate how far back your common male ancestor is.
    You and your cousin should have the same haplogroup, as both your father's share the same father.
    To confuse matters, you could also have the same haplogroup if you are not related as there are a few very common haplogroups that dominate in Ireland, so for fine scale testing for recent relatedness you are better of relying on the estimation of how many generations ago the common male ancestor is.


  • #507
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Testing your Y DNA will not confirm if your grandfather was your grandfather unless you can also test a confirmed son of his too or sibling or paternal cousin.

    You need to test your father and one of the girls and see what the sibling relationship is with an autosomal DNA test. If they are full or half siblings, the amount of centimorgans will be large. See Blaine Bettinger's shared centimorgan chart.

    If the previous generation is not possible, then test yourself and a cousin descending from one of the girls. You should match. If you don't then, someone is not the child of your grandfather.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #508
    DamoRed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    The one thing we must learn from our genealogical pursuits is to guard against assumptions! But yes, I am male.

    It is thought that they are/were natural blood brothers, born naturally of their parents, as opposed to their sibling sisters who are known to have been adopted. I say were, because my father died 25 years ago and assume - that word again - his brother would also be deceased at this point, if not even before him. The difficulty arises in that the other brother emigrated to New Zealand, and apart from his daughter who visited Ireland 40 years ago, it's not known if she has any siblings, male or female. A close-knit bunch, aren't we?


    Pardon my flippancy, but would a centimorgan test determine if I'm a distant cousin of Fr Ted? :D


  • #509
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    You will definitely need to test a descendant of the brother to determine what you want, but it doesn't have to be a male. Autosomal will tell you if you are first cousins, and at that level, it is 100% correct. Best thing to do is test yourself first and then get your detective hat on to find the NZ people. You might find they've already tested.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #510
    cat_r
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭cat_r


    Autosomal DNA tests are the tests advertised on TV. Men and women can do the test to find both male and female relations using a kit from Ancestry, Family Tree DNA, MyHeritage or 23andMe. The results will show your matches and by how many centiMorgans you match. Then look at a chart of these numbers (or use an online calculator like this one https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4) to see what the likely relationships could be. 
    You mentioned doing male line testing (Y-DNA) - if you want to do that after you've done the autosomal tests, then the best company to use for the autosomal tests is Family Tree DNA (FamilyFinder test) as they can usually use the same sample to do further tests. The other companies don't do comprehensive Y-DNA testing.


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  • #511
    sheepintheback
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭sheepintheback


    Hey Guys! I am gonna get an ancestry DNA test and i have a query.

    I understand that i get 50% of my mothers DNA and 50% of my fathers DNA, so in other words, my Dad has 50% DNA that was not passed on to me!

    If i use a sample of my dads DNA for the test, does that mean i am more likely to make a match with a cousin on his side?
    However if he does the test, i will get no information on my Mom's side.
    So would it not be best for me to do the test. That way i can find out who I am.

    I cant afford more than 1 :(


  • #512
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    If money is an issue, wait for the Family Tree DNA offers. They are cheaper than Ancestry and you can still use gedmatch to compare to other companies results.

    You won't have any shortage of cousins if you use your DNA. Your Dad's DNA is not yours.


  • #513
    p15574
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭p15574


    I did a MyHeritage DNA test, and the result was mildly interesting (to me). No close matches as of yet, but I didn't really expect any.

    My mother is in her 80s and I was wondering if there is any major reason to get a DNA test for her - she's not getting any younger. I know we only get a portion of our parents DNA so I was thinking it might be useful to show up matches that don't apply to me. In addition, I was thinking it might narrow down whether ethnicities in my results come from her or my (deceased) father - for example, I'm allegedly 3.6% Eastern European, which sounds odd.

    Possible reasons against? The cost, obviously, unless the benefits outweigh it. Also that it might be an invasion of my mother's privacy. While she's mildly interested in my genealogical findings, she would only do the test to please me, not out of any interest herself.

    Have any of you tested other family members too? Also, as I did mine on MyHeritage, am I better off sticking with them if I proceeded, to ensure consistency of results? I could imagine if I did another test myself with a different provider, my own DNA could be reported as being different. MyHeritage are having an Easter sale at the moment too.


  • #514
    montgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    I was very sorry that I didn't get my mother tested before she died. Do it soon!

    I would think that your mum might be more interested in her own matches and genealogy if tested. You can upload her MyHeritage results to Gedmatch and probably FTDNA so I don't see a problem with using them again.


  • #515
    leck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭leck


    p15574 wrote: »
    I did a MyHeritage DNA test, and the result was mildly interesting (to me). No close matches as of yet, but I didn't really expect any.

    My mother is in her 80s and I was wondering if there is any major reason to get a DNA test for her ...
    I would do it. I tested my mother, my maternal aunt, my brother and myself. My mother's and aunt's test kits have been extremely helpful in my research.


  • #516
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Definitely test your mother, and do it on a different site, so you get different results. FTDNA has the most Irish people in it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • #517
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Isn't it worth testing something like a second or third cousin at the same company? That way you can compare matches you have in common and as the common ancestor is a few generations back you can then get a better idea of how people are related to you (or not).


  • #518
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I tested myself and my mother and a paternal cousin of my late father and a maternal cousin of my late father. All with FTDNA.

    GEDMatch allowed me to 'recreate' a DNA profile for my father, using mine and my mother's. I know it's not the same as if we could have tested him, but it certainly 'behaves' correctly, matching with known tested American cousins.


  • #519
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    You can put every company's results on to Gedmatch and use it compare. Ancestry has no chromosome browser but FTDNA and Gedmatch do.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #520
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    spurious wrote: »
    GEDMatch allowed me to 'recreate' a DNA profile for my father, using mine and my mother's. I know it's not the same as if we could have tested him, but it certainly 'behaves' correctly, matching with known tested American cousins.
    Spurious, Boards.ie's mutant test-tube DNA baby!:)


  • #521
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I also did a lazarus kit for my father - produced matches that his sister and I don't have which don't come from my other side.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • #522
    VirginiaB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭VirginiaB


    This is a question about DNA tests and privacy. I did the Ancestry test last year to see what it would show about my ethnicity. No surprises. I have many matches but found only one that led to interesting new non-DNA info--found my great-grandfather's long-lost brother.

    I just bought the FTDNA tests, autosomal and mtDNA. But I am concerned about sharing my name and email with who-knows-who. With Ancestry, contact is all done thru them and is anonymous until you both decide to share names and emails, my preference. With FTDNA, there is no such privacy layer. But I bought the FTDNA tests, hoping to find living distant cousins in Ireland or wherever so we can share info. I can't decide what to do.

    Has anyone here shared their names and emails, sight unseen, with strangers on FTDNA? Any experiences to share, good or bad?


  • #523
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    There's no point in doing DNA testing if you're not going to divulge your real name and details.

    Universally good experiences so far having tested on FTDNA, Ancestry and uploaded to Gedmatch.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #524
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    VirginiaB wrote: »
    This is a question about DNA tests and privacy. I did the Ancestry test last year to see what it would show about my ethnicity. No surprises. I have many matches but found only one that led to interesting new non-DNA info--found my great-grandfather's long-lost brother.

    I just bought the FTDNA tests, autosomal and mtDNA. But I am concerned about sharing my name and email with who-knows-who. With Ancestry, contact is all done thru them and is anonymous until you both decide to share names and emails, my preference. With FTDNA, there is no such privacy layer. But I bought the FTDNA tests, hoping to find living distant cousins in Ireland or wherever so we can share info. I can't decide what to do.

    Has anyone here shared their names and emails, sight unseen, with strangers on FTDNA? Any experiences to share, good or bad?

    Haven't had any adverse experiences, you could always set up a dummy email just for DNA research purposes.


  • #525
    BottleOfSmoke
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭BottleOfSmoke


    Ipso wrote: »
    Haven't had any adverse experiences, you could always set up a dummy email just for DNA research purposes.

    Agreed. Set up a gmail or other free account exclusively for this use. I see loads of them like "mark_lookingforcousins@gmail.com" that kind of thing. I think putting in a first name personalizes it a bit as well.


  • #526
    cat_r
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭cat_r


    BottleOfSmoke wrote: »
    Ipso wrote: »
    Haven't had any adverse experiences, you could always set up a dummy email just for DNA research purposes.

    Agreed. Set up a gmail or other free account exclusively for this use. I see loads of them like "mark_lookingforcousins@gmail.com" that kind of thing. I think putting in a first name personalizes it a bit as well.
    All positive here. Having a separate email account makes it easier to keep track of DNA correspondence. 
    If you decide to upload your results to GEDmatch, I think having a relevant surname or location in the email address helps people looking down a long list of matches there.


  • #527
    VirginiaB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭VirginiaB


    Thanks for all the input. Glad you have had positive experiences.


  • #528
    deisedevil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭deisedevil


    I recently received ancestry results from DNA Ireland.

    I have my mtDNA markers and Y-STR results. All sites seem to require raw dna data files to upload. I'm not sure how I can do this. I just received the tables on a pdf and have no idea how to start looking for matches with this data or is it possible at all does anyone know. Sorry if this is too vague.


  • #529
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    AFAIK Gedmatch only accepts autosomal DNA test results.


  • #530
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Haven't heard of DNA Ireland. Are they a new company?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #531
    leck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭leck


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Haven't heard of DNA Ireland. Are they a new company?
    According to their website, it seems that they are mostly focused on paternity testing. See http://www.dnaireland.ie/dna-testing/


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  • #532
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Very expensive too!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #533
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    I could be wrong but I think 'DNA Ireland' was originally a reseller for FTDNA, if that is the case there should be a FTDNA kit number associated with results and you should be able to request that. Once you have the kit details you can log into FTDNA and see stuff like matches etc. However they might be using a seperate lab now, either way the claim of been a "National DNA testing service" is spurious if you ask me!


  • #534
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,457 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    I have a DNA kit which needs to be shipped back to the USA for analysis.

    Is there anything specific that I need to be concerned about with sending this (saliva sample) from Ireland to the US? I think i will need to fill out a CN22 customs declaration form when I go to the post office?


  • #535
    leck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭leck


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    I have a DNA kit which needs to be shipped back to the USA for analysis.

    Is there anything specific that I need to be concerned about with sending this (saliva sample) from Ireland to the US? I think i will need to fill out a CN22 customs declaration form when I go to the post office?
    Who did you test with? If it's an Ancestry test you can just send to HQ in Dublin.


  • #536
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,457 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    leck wrote: »
    Who did you test with? If it's an Ancestry test you can just send to HQ in Dublin.


    It's with a company called Athletigen
    The test is used to analyse markers related to health, diet, fitness, sleep etc. rather than genealogy.


  • #537
    tabbey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    A bolshie postal clerk refused my FTDNA sample across the counter, so I bought the stamps in another PO and posted it in a pillar box.


  • #538
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Have always just bought stamps and put in the regular post for FTDNA. Ancestry's is a prepaid envelope. Have never heard of this other company so have no particular advice.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #539
    dastardly00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,457 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    tabbey wrote: »
    A bolshie postal clerk refused my FTDNA sample across the counter, so I bought the stamps in another PO and posted it in a pillar box.
    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Have always just bought stamps and put in the regular post for FTDNA. Ancestry's is a prepaid envelope. Have never heard of this other company so have no particular advice.


    Thanks for the advice. So it sounds like the best approach is just to buy stamps and put it in the post myself. How did you work out the value of stamps to buy? The An Post Calculator?


  • #540
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I just put the standard €1.50 on it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • #541
    montgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Hi,
    I match with a lady from with nearly 100cMs and we have yet to figure out how we connect. I have a 48cMs segment match with her on Ch2. I have lots of shared matches with her on Gedmatch and MyHeritage. Most of the shared matches triangulate on Ch2. I have contacted some of them but most have no known Irish ancestors. According to my 100cMs match, her only Irish ancestor was already in the US by late 1700s. The strong match would appear to rule out a match with an ancestor of over 250 yrs ago but maybe not? Or could she have another Irish ancestor that she doesn't know about, NPE or could it be a false match? Any ideas?


  • #542
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Matched on more than one ancestral couple? I.E. the 100Cm is combined from 2 sources.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #543
    Mez1982
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Mez1982


    montgo wrote: »
    Hi,
    I match with a lady from with nearly 100cMs and we have yet to figure out how we connect. I have a 48cMs segment match with her on Ch2. I have lots of shared matches with her on Gedmatch and MyHeritage. Most of the shared matches triangulate on Ch2. I have contacted some of them but most have no known Irish ancestors. According to my 100cMs match, her only Irish ancestor was already in the US by late 1700s. The strong match would appear to rule out a match with an ancestor of over 250 yrs ago but maybe not? Or could she have another Irish ancestor that she doesn't know about, NPE or could it be a false match? Any ideas?

    Is that a total cm shared of is it the longest cms?
    I would really doubt at that high of cms that it would be a false match. I share a total of 75 cms with a woman on FTDNA and the link is her 2x G,Grandad was my 2x G,Grandads brother. I also share 135cms with a guy on Ancestry and the link is his G,Grandad was my Grannys brother. So all in all with your total cms being so high the connection IMO should be fairly easy to establish If all ancestors are known.
    Here is a guide that I regularly go to to get a rough estimate of where DNA matches and myself could be connected.


  • #544
    montgo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Thanks Mez,

    Yes. total is 98cMs on both MyHeritage & Gedmatch with longest segment of 48cMs. I have referred to that chart before so should be between 3rd & 4th cousin. As Pinky suggests, the match could be from more than one family line.


  • #545
    A New earth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 551 ✭✭✭A New earth


    montgo wrote: »
    Thanks Mez,

    Yes. total is 98cMs on both MyHeritage & Gedmatch with longest segment of 48cMs. I have referred to that chart before so should be between 3rd & 4th cousin. As Pinky suggests, the match could be from more than one family line.

    I have a match with a total of 131cms on 7 segments with largest being 32cms, we can't trace the ancestor but his 2nd great grandmother born c. 1800 has the same surname as my 2nd great grandfather and is from the same county. She could be his sister I suppose but it is still a large CM sharing so maybe yours does stretch back to late 1700s


  • #546
    DamoRed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Indeed, back when this DNA marlarky started in early 2000 the Orkney Islands were a favoured location for population sampling. This was based on idea of:
    • Small island group, history of minimum population input (lets not mention Scapa Flow, or Oil!)
    • As islands off Britain, they were thought to be good approx for a 'indigenous british' sample

    the problem with last idea of course is it completely ignores the history of Orkney eg. that it was part of Kingdom of Norway until the 15th century and that a Old-Norse derived language (Norn) was spoken there as late as the 18th century.

    Do you reckon that breeding between them and Ulster-Scots may have brought about the origin of the term Norn-Iron? :P



    I'll get me coat...


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  • #547
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    You’re really testing our mettle!


  • #548
    Tombom1
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tombom1


    Say if I were to get Ftdnas Y dna y-111 test is there much difference in me taking the test compared to my grandfather in his 90s?

    Also it's 219 $ right now,it was 219 aswell last year for Thanksgiving,but would I have to wait another year to get this offer or has the price dropped down to this before during the year?
    Today is the last day for the offer but it's a fair bit of money to me,so I'm just wondering.
    Also does anyone have any idea how much shipping costs aswell?


  • #549
    OU812
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,072 ✭✭✭OU812


    Tombom1 wrote: »
    Say if I were to get Ftdnas Y dna y-111 test is there much difference in me taking the test compared to my grandfather in his 90s?

    Also it's 219 $ right now,it was 219 aswell last year for Thanksgiving,but would I have to wait another year to get this offer or has the price dropped down to this before during the year?
    Today is the last day for the offer but it's a fair bit of money to me,so I'm just wondering.
    Also does anyone have any idea how much shipping costs aswell?

    Considering your grandfather is 90, I’d be getting it now


  • #550
    Tombom1
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tombom1


    OU812 wrote: »
    Considering your grandfather is 90, I’d be getting it now

    Well he's 92 but even his grandfather who lived through the famine lived to his 90s and his father to 97.I plan on getting him a autosomal DNA test and his older sister (95),but I don't want to scare him ,getting him all these tests!

    The question I'm asking is,is it really necessary for him to do a ydna compared to me as the y chromosome doesn't really change ?would I be able to go further back?how far exactly I'm new to DNA tests.


  • #551
    DamoRed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭DamoRed


    If he's willing to take it, you should take that opportunity. It's always best to test the oldest person or generation possible. You'd be kicking yourself in a couple of years if you didn't test him and then he dies. Get him tested and then you can test yourself at a later date, as they regularly have special offers for holidays.

    There's nothing to be scared of, really. The test is merely a stick like a cotton bud with a polyester type surface and that's rubbed around the inside of the mouth for a minute to hold as much saliva/DNA as possible. It's not threatening or invasive in any way.


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