List of empty local authority houses

the_syco · 11-10-2018 1:03pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Square the cycle of homeless crisis and empty houses people don't want?

You don't go from living on the street, to a house. You go from living on the street, to a hostel, to a more permanent room somewhere, and then to a house. If the room you're currently living in is in a secure building where your children are safe in, you will stay in said room over moving to a building where the "stairwells are dark and littered". Also, the kids in said hotel rooms may have better facilities nearby, than "playing on a spray-painted football pitch on top of a row of nearby sheds"

mariaalice wrote: »

If someone set up a website that tracked empty council house and the length they were empty it would be a genuine piece of activism that might achieve something by putting the councils under pressure to do something.

So you want to force the councils to concentrate on housing, and ignore other issues? Perhaps spend the money on redoing up a house for one family, rather than spend money housing a number of families in rented accommodation? The councils can only do so much with their budget.

riclad · 11-10-2018 4:07pm

I know of dcc flat in 2016, in good condition, it was left vacant ,
for 8 months before they did anything to it ,apart from
boarding up door with metal frame.In dublin area.Most hotels have no play areas for kids , at least the ones in the city centre where most homeless people go.
It may be different outside dublin.
some flats are left empty for 12 months or more in dublin area .
In my experience .

the_syco · 12-10-2018 2:15am

riclad wrote: »

some flats are left empty for 12 months or more in dublin area

Location, neighbours, and AFAIK, if you don't select any option, you can stay where you are with the same benefits, so why move if you don't want to?

riclad · 12-10-2018 3:29pm

I lived in a flat for 5 years, i moved out, it was about 8 months before they did anything.
i think they removed old kitchen units and put in new units.
they also put in new carpets .
Empty flats is nothing to do with people refusing them,
if person 1 refuses a flat,
the next person on the list will probably take it.
The council cleans the flat and fix,s anything that needs fixing.
Or maybe puts in new floor coverings.
Most of the people on the housing list are living at home ,or in private rented accomodation,
they are not waiting for a transfer from one council flat to another.

Graces7 · 13-10-2018 7:29am

riclad wrote: »

I lived in a flat for 5 years, i moved out, it was about 8 months before they did anything.
i think they removed old kitchen units and put in new units.
they also put in new carpets .
Empty flats is nothing to do with people refusing them,
if person 1 refuses a flat,
the next person on the list will probably take it.
The council cleans the flat and fix,s anything that needs fixing.
Or maybe puts in new floor coverings.
Most of the people on the housing list are living at home ,or in private rented accomodation,
they are not waiting for a transfer from one council flat to another.

I found this place; it was empty 5 years. When I approached the local council they said that there was no demand for social housing here... I was in imminent danger of having to live in my car and they said I could take it. that it needed cleaning and painting and the ESB reconnected. A month they said. I said I would do the painting and cleaning etc; i have heard the "a month" story before.... moved in within ten days. Took them 5 months to sort the ESB so I did right.
Wonder how many perfectly good dwellings are lying empty like this one was

(Why can I not add emoticons please?)

riclad · 13-10-2018 10:11am

i can only speak of dublin, maybe in certain rural area,s theres low demand for social housing.
In the 80,s there were 100,s of empty flats in dublin, you could walk
into a flat ,put a new lock on the door and sign a form in the council office and you would become a tenant .
The flats were not even boarded up .
Even in dublin where theres high demand flats are left empty,
for months after a tenant moves out.

power pants · 13-10-2018 11:29am

riclad wrote: »

i can only speak of dublin, maybe in certain rural area,s theres low demand for social housing.
In the 80,s there were 100,s of empty flats in dublin, you could walk
into a flat ,put a new lock on the door and sign a form in the council office and you would become a tenant .
The flats were not even boarded up .
Even in dublin where theres high demand flats are left empty,
for months after a tenant moves out.

A friend of mine told me he did that in the early 90s in one of the flats on Dorset st

Just literally walked in and lived in the flat for 6 years but eventually was thrown out

Dcc never really knew exactly what stock they had in possession or not back then

zell12 · 28-12-2018 2:59pm

kceire wrote: »

DCC had considered renting a ship for up to 150 homeless people to ease the crisis, before they shelved the idea.
Obviously some journalist has just gotten hands on lists or options prepared at some stage.
I don't think housing on a cruise ship ever was that close to reality.

DCC 'would not rule out' cruise ship for homeless
DCC's deputy chief executive Brendan Kenny is willing to try anything to solve the housing crisis - and hasn't ruled out the use of a cruise ship for homeless people - but insists the council can't fix it alone and needs more help from private developers... he doesn't expect to see any real difference in the housing crisis for another two to three years.

antoinolachtnai · 28-12-2018 7:59pm

I think this is an outrageous statement.

If he thinks private developers are the key, but they aren’t building, then it is his job to incentivize these private developers. A 30k completion bonus and a put option would go a long way.

But it is crazy that he can throw his hands up and say that there is nothing he can do.

The council sending agents out to bid against first time buyers and people trying to rent is the stupidest idea ever.

L1011 · 28-12-2018 8:23pm

A Dublin City Council official who believes that they need private developers to fix the problem needs to read the history of his own employer to see that that has never been the case.

Dublin Corporation & County Council brought housing lists down to tiny figures on more than one occasion by direct intervention, alone. We've learnt from the mistakes made, particularly the 50s and 60s schemes, so should be able to avoid those ones at least. At no stage in the repeated cycle of housing crises - the 1910s, 1930s to early 50s, mid 60s to mid 70s - have they been resolved by or even with private developers.

They used to work more extensively with what we'd now consider "approved housing bodies" to build in the same schemes at the same time - Marino being the best example of this with multiple groups from everything from charities to benevolent funds for various trades and even I think the British Legion involved (I don't have the book with the details to hand right now); but not private developers. They used to build houses for direct sale themselves, either cash tender or council mortgages - but built on their contract, not separately by another developer, and with the profits retained by the Housing Department.

antoinolachtnai · 28-12-2018 8:28pm

A housing crisis in the mid-80s seems to have been dealt with by private developers. Section 23/27 delivered a lot of high density housing up until 2005.

L1011 · 28-12-2018 8:31pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A housing crisis in the mid-80s seems to have been dealt with by private developers. Section 23/27 delivered a lot of high density housing up until 2005.

That was at the same time as there was still extensive development of council-owned housing, and not much in the way of social tenants going in to the privately developed properties. Its questionable if the tax revenue lost to reliefs was best 'spent' that way anyway.

The large-scale development of council-owned housing stopped with the return of an FF/PD Government in 1997 and it still hasn't recovered.

antoinolachtnai · 28-12-2018 8:56pm

My information is that social housing output grew by 60 percent between 1997 and 2002.

Dublin doesn’t particularly have a social housing crisis. The lack of housing for people on middle incomes is as big an issue (maybe bigger) as the lack of social housing.

L1011 · 28-12-2018 9:08pm

What proportion of those were bought from private developers rather than built by councils? FF-PDs outsourced construction to the private sector effectively.

People on middle incomes can and do live in social housing in countries where it is implemented properly. It should the only a safety net system - it can and should actually pay for itself for the councils

Mrs OBumble · 28-12-2018 9:15pm

L1011 wrote: »

They used to build houses for direct sale themselves, either cash tender or council mortgages - but built on their contract, not separately by another developer, and with the profits retained by the Housing Department.

Was that actually legal?

I'm not familiar with public finance legislation in this country, but I can think of at least one country with a similar framework where it absolutely would not be allowed: public bodies cannot directly compete with private sector organisations, due to the unfair advantages (scale, legislative access) that the public sector bodies have.

L1011 · 28-12-2018 9:23pm

It was the 1940-60s, much of that type of legislation didn't exist yet. We don't need to do the now illegal bits.

Other stuff they did that would be utterly illegal now included raffling council house tenancies to newlyweds annually (everyone up to middle class willlingly entered that) and selling cost-price houses to public servants with loans arranged via ICS Building Society

antoinolachtnai · 28-12-2018 10:43pm

One of the problems with social housing, in Ireland at least, is that the allocation turns into a political merry-go-round. I heard about a TD claiming credit for getting an AHB affordable house for a family in north Dublin city. Whether this is true or not I have no idea. (I actually doubt it.)

The state aid rules certainly wouldn’t prohibit local authorities from developing private housing. But it would have to be fairly financed and structured.

Maybe it would make sense to build apartments this way. But the local authorities really don’t have the capabilities for this type of development. If Mr Kenny’s remarks are anything to go by, they don’t have the vision either.

List of empty local authority houses

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