Things don't just happen.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 1:10pm #1

I am in no position to say that you're beliefs, or lack of, are wrong. My problem is, how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator. Common sence suggests that something or someone had to cause the Big Bang(and pre-big bang)

You do know Darwin, had doubts about his own idea right? The IDEA of evolution was just that, an idea.

The fact that God created the planet is obvious, that is what drives me mad, it's plain ignorrance that makes you not see it.

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact. When testing humans, every time they tested on are supposed ancestors, either error or match not found has come up.

The missing link is not complicated. Yes, faith is blind, and not until we die, will we find out the truth.

I'm not saying my religion is the right one, and judging by other relgions this could end me up in Hell, but I'm in no doubt there is a God.

*I wish I was more literate so I could argue my case better*

I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements, which attempt to prove me wrong. The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

Beruthiel · 14-08-2007 1:21pm

estebancambias wrote:

how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator.

How can you 100% prove that there is one?

Common sence suggests that something or someone had to cause the Big Bang(and pre-big bang)

And common sense suggests that we wait until a scientific explaination is given on that one.
Just because we do not have the answers to the inner workings of the universe, doesn't mean we fill in the blanks with 'god' as the answer.

You do know Darwin, had doubts about his own idea right? The IDEA of evolution was just that, an idea.

sorry, but lol

The fact that God created the planet is obvious

Really? It sure ain't obvious to me.

it's plain ignorrance that makes you not see it.

Ignorance to me is someone who makes stuff up in order to feel more comfortable with their existance. But of course, that's just my opinion.

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact.

Fact you say. If you say so, it must be true, is that it?

The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

You mean, the guys who know what they are talking about?
Are you trolling this forum?
Wanders off to check your previous posts...

Agent J · 14-08-2007 1:22pm

I dont know where to begin picking that apart.

Tell me, Are you a Christian? Does the Sin of Pride ring a bell?

You basically have just some along and said "I'm right and you're all stupid for not agreeing". Not exactly conductive a rational debate is it?

"I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements, which attempt to prove me wrong. The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object."

Oh my dear Gods. You ask people not to make moronic statements to respond to your moronic statements? Not exactly fair is it?

What exactly are you trying to say here?

Seriously. Is there a single point you are trying to make? Stick with the single point for now and try not to be so insulting and arrogant.

layke · 14-08-2007 1:31pm

estebancambias wrote:

I am in no position to say that you're beliefs, or lack of, are wrong. My problem is, how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator. Common sence suggests that something or someone had to cause the Big Bang(and pre-big bang)

Possible (but highly improbable), but we don't know for sure. It's just that scientifically we have a better theory then an old fellah in the sky made it happen. But there's no proof.

You do know Darwin, had doubts about his own idea right? The IDEA of evolution was just that, an idea.

Perhaps but that's the beauty of science new evidence can disprove a theory and create a new one. Science is a theory coupled with known facts to give us a likely assumption until it's proven.

The fact that God created the planet is obvious, that is what drives me mad, it's plain ignorrance that makes you not see it.

Show me the evidence and don't say the bible. That book has been changed by man loads of times with loads of different versions. What drives me mad is people blindly accepting something because a bloke wearing a dress said so. "But it's in the book lads".

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact.

Don't preach this malarke to me without evidence. Solid Rock hard evidence.

When testing humans, every time they tested on are supposed ancestors, either error or match not found has come up

Errr. It's proven fact our DNA is 1% different from chimps.

The missing link is not complicated. Yes, faith is blind, and not until we die, will we find out the truth.

I won't. At least I hope there's no afterlife, the thought of living forever is a tad daunting tbh.

I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements, which attempt to prove me wrong. The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

Don't come here making moronic statements that evolution is wrong without evidence proving this.

Hivemind187 · 14-08-2007 1:37pm

estebancambias wrote:

I am in no position to say that you're beliefs, or lack of, are wrong. My problem is, how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator. Common sence suggests that something or someone had to cause the Big Bang(and pre-big bang)

You do know Darwin, had doubts about his own idea right? The IDEA of evolution was just that, an idea.

The fact that God created the planet is obvious, that is what drives me mad, it's plain ignorrance that makes you not see it.

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact. When testing humans, every time they tested on are supposed ancestors, either error or match not found has come up.

The missing link is not complicated. Yes, faith is blind, and not until we die, will we find out the truth.

I'm not saying my religion is the right one, and judging by other relgions this could end me up in Hell, but I'm in no doubt there is a God.

*I wish I was more literate so I could argue my case better*

I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements, which attempt to prove me wrong. The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

Um ... did anyone elses Troll Alarm go off when reading this?

Straight up, each and every single point you make here is not merely refutable but contemptable.

You offer no evidence, you cite no reference and you make assertions as argument for your case.

It does however illustrate the kind of boggled thinking that so pervades the theistic perspective as well as a number of well known misconceptions about evolution, Darwin and the nature of the universe.

Firstly, Darwin struggled for a long time with his theory of natural selection, this is true, however he was finally convinced byt the astounding level of evidence accumulated to support the theory.

Second, there is no evidence to suggest that the world was "created" by any kind of intelligent designer and to assume so violates occams razor. To the contrary, all of the evidence that is verifiable and measureeable supports the conclusion that the earth was formed in the same manner as all other celestial bodies (clouds of dust and gas clumping together slowly increasing in gravity until a planetoid is formed). It is not ignorance that causes many of us to reject the position that "God did it" but confrontation with the evidence.

Third, I agree wholeheartedly, I too wish you were more literate and capable of expressing your argument better - chances are though, were you more literate, you wouldnt be making this argument in the first place.

Alvis · 14-08-2007 1:41pm

Hivemind187 wrote:

Um ... did anyone elses Troll Alarm go off when reading this?

Mine did >_<

Scofflaw · 14-08-2007 2:10pm

Hivemind187 wrote:

Firstly, Darwin struggled for a long time with his theory of natural selection, this is true, however he was finally convinced by the astounding level of evidence accumulated to support the theory.

And that was 150 years ago.

Hivemind187 wrote:

Um ... did anyone elses Troll Alarm go off when reading this?

I wish. No, that post could be entirely genuine. Even an apparent hit-and-run posting can be the result of realising just how much you've bitten off. Anyway, if it's trolling, it has its own strange beauty.

estebancambias wrote:

I am in no position to say that you're beliefs, or lack of, are wrong.
My problem is, how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator. Common sence suggests that something or someone had to cause the Big Bang(and pre-big bang)

Indeed. How does common sense suggest such a thing?

estebancambias wrote:

You do know Darwin, had doubts about his own idea right? The IDEA of evolution was just that, an idea.

Theories tend to be.

estebancambias wrote:

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact. When testing humans, every time they tested on are supposed ancestors, either error or match not found has come up.

There's a search engine?

estebancambias wrote:

I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements, which attempt to prove me wrong.

You don't want to be proved wrong?

estebancambias wrote:

The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

Ah. The scientific theory of evolution has been proven wrong by....? Not by scientists, anyway.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dave! · 14-08-2007 2:24pm

Clearly a troll user (see his threads in AH). Please don't feed the trolls, this can cause them serious digestive problems.

cavedave · 14-08-2007 3:30pm

it's only the scientists who still object

This does sound like a fairly obvious satire on the same lines as "you can prove anything true using facts".
.

Dades · 14-08-2007 4:09pm

DaveMcG wrote:

Clearly a troll user (see his threads in AH).

We'll give him a couple more hours to reappear and explain himself, after which time he'll find his excuse for a thread closed.

Zombrex · 14-08-2007 4:34pm

estebancambias wrote:

Just on a final note, every single idea of evolution has been proven wrong. This is fact.

It is?

estebancambias wrote:

*I wish I was more literate so I could argue my case better*

Believe us, so do we :rolleyes:

estebancambias wrote:

I just ask you, if you do reply and object(obviously) don't make moronic statements

Shouldn't you start as you mean others to follow. Case in point ...

estebancambias wrote:

The thing about evolution being wrong has been virtually proven, it's only the scientists who still object.

So who exactly has "virtually proven" evolution false if not the scientists? The taxi drivers?

cavedave · 14-08-2007 4:35pm

Ok it is time to admit we were wrong

The Flying Spaghetti monster has been seen and videoed
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8vzqspFxNe4

Visions of our noodly lord are appearing everywhere
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap060822.html

So can we just pack up this forum admit we were wrong and go home?*

*yes this is a thread hijacking troll but with an initial post that is that stupid I could not resist.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 4:40pm

Explain myself? Your objection to my post is purely based on your stubborn beliefs and sense of pride.

Hivemind, why if I was more literate why would I not be making this argument? That is like me saying you're too narrow minded to even contemplate the existence of something else which stretches far beyond your mundaine life. We all have mundaine lifes, so that is not an insult.

Can someone please explain to me how I am trolling? Why is a good old fashioned debate not acceptable? If I came on here, saying ''ateists suck'', u dont no wat ur takin bout?, then I would fully accept the tag as a 'troll''.

Can you people please tell me where you developed your non-belief? If it is from science books, well then your beliefs are about as credible as Santa Claus. Modern biology is simple nonsense, changed by scientists every time their wrong beliefs are unearthed.

cavedave · 14-08-2007 4:46pm

Modern biology is simple nonsense, changed by scientists every time their wrong beliefs are unearthed.

That is why it is not nonsense. The fact that religions do not change their teaching every time their wrong beliefs are unearthed is why they are.

"Ow! I hope medical science can help me!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9vmOdt1A78

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 4:48pm

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 4:49pm

I don't deny that the bible has been changed over the years.

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 4:51pm

How is Modern Biology nonsense when so many medical breakthroughs have been made? And how is Christianity not nonsense?

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 4:56pm

Textbooks are nonsense.
Christianity? I'm sure you mean religion. Reasons why RELIGION is fact.
1.Design of universe, things are so well tuned and so precise that life has evolved, this is not chance, something must have designed it.

Consider this
The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.

Tim Robbins · 14-08-2007 4:57pm

estebancambias wrote:

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

And if the universe is so perfect that it necessitates a designer
implies if God is so perfect, He must also require a designer.

Who designed him?

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 4:57pm

estebancambias wrote:

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

Well, there are billions and billions of planets in the universe, surely at least one(or a few) have to have ideal conditions for life. Otherwise it would be a bit illogical.

So I guess you could say we got lucky.

Sapien · 14-08-2007 4:58pm

estebancambias wrote:

Reasons why RELIGION is fact.

Possibly the single most nonsensical sentence I have ever read. Kudos.

Dades · 14-08-2007 5:01pm

estebancambias wrote:

Explain myself? Your objection to my post is purely based on your stubborn beliefs and sense of pride.

My objection is to your outrageous claims that "science" is nonsense. The last time you flew in a plane - was that nonsense? Or that last internet post you made - I suppose science had nothing to do with that either?

estebancambias wrote:

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

Consider if you would the other side of the coin. We are physiologically the way we are because of our proximity to the sun.

rudie- · 14-08-2007 5:02pm

estebancambias wrote:

If it is from science books, well then your beliefs are about as credible as Santa Claus.

ohhhhh no he didn't.

estebancambias wrote:

Modern biology is simple nonsense, changed by scientists every time their wrong beliefs are unearthed.

It sure aint simple =P

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 5:02pm

estebancambias wrote:

Textbooks are nonsense.

How?

estebancambias wrote:

Consider this
The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.

Perhaps another type of life might have originated had the conditions been different, perhaps human life might have emerged on another planet.

estebancambias wrote:

Christianity? I'm sure you mean religion. Reasons why RELIGION is fact.
1.Design of universe, things are so well tuned and so precise that life has evolved, this is not chance, something must have designed it.

Tim Robbins put it nicely:

Tim Robbins wrote:

And if the universe is so perfect that it necessitates a designer
implies if God is so perfect, He must also require a designer.

Who designed him?

Also, I did mean Christianity, most athiests probably don't have any problem with people believing in a God, it's adhering to the strict and bizarre rules in religions like Christianity that we have a problem with.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:06pm

How is that nosensical? Because you are atheist that automatically means everything I say pro-religion is nonsensical. If you're going to get involved in this debate, then please give me some reasons to support your claim. Why is religion not fact. JK and the poster before him are the only two on here who have at least had something constructive to say. In response to your question, it is hard to explain, give me some time to word it.

5uspect · 14-08-2007 5:06pm

estebancambias wrote:

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

How many stars do you think are in the universe?
How many planets are there orbiting those stars?
What is the probability of an earth like planet orbiting one of those stars?

There are around 10 billion (10,000,000,000, thats a lot of zeros and a conservative estimate) in the average galaxy. It is estimated that there is at least 250 billion galaxies observable from earth.*

Even if you take the most conservative figures for planet formation and evolution of life you end up with astounding numbers for the possibility of life on other planets.

*This is the Hubble ultra deep field. It was taken by the Hubble telescope of a patch of empty space the size of a pea.

This patch alone contained tens of thousands of galaxies.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:08pm

So JK, the muslim religion is not strict and bizarre?

aidan24326 · 14-08-2007 5:12pm

estebancambias wrote:

Just another thing to add, God's creation is everywhere to see, just look at the Earths position. How is it that by coincidence, we just happen to be the right distance away from the sun? This is design, you must at least consider this.

Because if weren't the 'right' distance from the sun, we wouldn't be here to make that observation in the first place. Simple as that. Not necessarily design at all, just pure luck. And before you say that's too much luck to ask for, in a vast universe with countless billions of stars, it stands to reason that some of those stars will have planets in the so-called 'goldilocks' zone where life (or at least life as we know it) is considered possible. Not that mysterious at all really.

And I'd love to see your 'evidence' as to how evolution has been disproved. No doubt you'll start quoting from answersingenesis or some such fountain of knowledge.

Dades · 14-08-2007 5:12pm

estebancambias wrote:

So JK, the muslim religion is not strict and bizarre?

Not the issue at hand! Move on please!

estebancambias wrote:

Consider this:
The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.

Hang on - I thought science books were as credible as Santa?

IrishKnight · 14-08-2007 5:16pm

estebancambias wrote:

how can you just 100% say that there is no God or creator.

Hi, estebancambias again!

As many the atheist tells you (and mathematician), the probability of there being a God(s) is the same as if a storm passing over a junk yard will build a perfect 747. There is a great quote out there but I'm not sure who said it but, "Nothing is impossible, just improbable"

Also by your logic God would have to have been made by something else...another creator, and thus the cycle goes on.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:16pm

Modern science books. People like Einstein made sense. Actually Einstein's theory of relativity can be used to explain who created God. I know he was a non-believer though.

Hey, and that is a good quote.

Sapien · 14-08-2007 5:17pm

estebancambias wrote:

How is that nosensical? Because you are atheist that automatically means everything I say pro-religion is nonsensical. If you're going to get involved in this debate, then please give me some reasons to support your claim. Why is religion not fact.

How can religion be fact? There are countless religions. They all say different things. If one was true, none of the others could be true. But all of them are true?

It's not that the contention "Religion is fact" is wrong. It's that it doesn't even mean anything.

Perhaps that's not what you meant - but there's no way anything else could be understood from your statement - and whether the nonsense arises from what you mean or how you phrase it is of no interest to me.

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 5:20pm

estebancambias wrote:

So JK, the muslim religion is not strict and bizarre?

It's JC, and yes, it is, I only said Christianity, because I know you are a Christian. I don't see how this point is in any way relevent.

Answer "who created God?" or else none of your arguments hold any water whatsoever.

Dades · 14-08-2007 5:21pm

estebancambias wrote:

Modern science books. People like Einstein made sense.

Then by what means have you deduced that modern science books are useless? Made sense to who?

estebancambias wrote:

Actually Einstein's theory of relativity can be used to explain who created God.

Used by someone who doesn't understand it, I expect.

Sapien · 14-08-2007 5:21pm

estebancambias wrote:

Actually Einstein's theory of relativity can be used to explain who created God.

Oh please, please tell me how. I am wracked with fascination.

Zombrex · 14-08-2007 5:21pm

estebancambias wrote:

How is that nosensical?

Pretty much everything you are posting here is nonsensical, as in it makes no sense. One wonders if you actually understand any of the topics you are talking about (or of course option B, you are simply drunk and trolling for a laugh)

estebancambias wrote:

Because you are atheist that automatically means everything I say pro-religion is nonsensical.

Everything you say is nonsensical because your posts aren't making any sense.

Case in point, proclaiming that all text books are nonsense and scientists haven't a clue and then backing up your comments on the chances of life with a quote from physicist Paul Davies (who, in case you actually have no idea who he is, has written a number of books on popular science)

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:22pm

Here I will explain 'who invented God'. Ive been looking up this for the last while, and this is my take on it.

God is all-mighty, God created the unviverse, thus God created time. God is not limited to the time scale God created.
That actually does make sense, in terms of pro-religion.

5uspect · 14-08-2007 5:22pm

estebancambias wrote:

Actually Einstein's theory of relativity can be used to explain who created God.

Care to enlighten us heathens or are you just going to continue to blabber on incoherently?

BULLER · 14-08-2007 5:22pm

estebancambias wrote:

1. Design of universe, things are so well tuned and so precise that life has evolved, this is not chance, something must have designed it.

On the contrary, to say it is not by chance is in itself ignorance. How can you justify saying this?
The universe is mind-boggling in size. Therefore we can conclude that there are almost infinate possiblities for many solar systems to be adequately tuned even so precisely for life to flourish. You do the math...
(I realise this brings up other topics such as; there are many planets in the universe which can support life. But please stick to the topic)

Zombrex · 14-08-2007 5:24pm

estebancambias wrote:

God is all-mighty, God created the unviverse, thus God created tim. God is not limited to the time scale God created.
That actually does make sense, in terms of pro-religion.

Who the f**k is Tim? Are we supposed to worship Tim now?

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:24pm

I actually do know who Paul Davies is.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:26pm

Wicknight your witt amazes me!!!

Zombrex · 14-08-2007 5:27pm

estebancambias wrote:

I actually do know who Paul Davies is.

Well I imagine you do now that you have put his name into Google :rolleyes:

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 5:27pm

estebancambias wrote:

God is all-mighty, God created the unviverse, thus God created tim. God is not limited to the time scale God created.

Why not just say time is infinite? There's no more basis for that as there is for what you're saying here.

All you have is blind belief.

Tim Robbins · 14-08-2007 5:27pm

estebancambias wrote:

Here I will explain 'who invented God'. Ive been looking up this for the last while, and this is my take on it.

God is all-mighty, God created the unviverse, thus God created tim. God is not limited to the time scale God created.
That actually does make sense, in terms of pro-religion.

You're trolling. Suggest a Mod sorts this out.

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:29pm

Please explain to me how I am trolling? I'm passionate about this. Oh and I'm not drunk. Perhaps it could be that I believe in my religion and on the day of judgement God will reward me for believing.

JC 2K3 · 14-08-2007 5:29pm

I really don't think he is, sadly. He's on the LC forum also and is just a bit of an odd individual really.

IrishKnight · 14-08-2007 5:29pm

1. Design of universe, things are so well tuned and so precise that life has evolved, this is not chance, something must have designed it.

Then what designed God? And what designed the thing that designed God? And what designed...well you see where I'm going with this.

Dades · 14-08-2007 5:30pm

Wicknight wrote:

Who the f**k is Tim? Are we supposed to worship Tim now?

I thought Tim Robbins had been acting odd recently.

edit - oh hi Tim!

estebancambias wrote:

God is all-mighty, God created the unviverse, thus God created time. God is not limited to the time scale God created.
That actually does make sense, in terms of pro-religion.

Look, this is just philosophical stretching. You can't expect anyone here to base a world view on this notion - especially from someone who rejects modern science.

Would you accept a blood transfusion to save your life?

Zombrex · 14-08-2007 5:30pm

estebancambias wrote:

Wicknight your witt amazes me!!!

And your inability to construct a coherent and considered post "amazes" me

How about you come back to us when you are either aren't drunk or stoned or what ever is wrong you at the moment :rolleyes:

estebancambias · 14-08-2007 5:30pm

This guy here thinks that all drugs should be made legal, therefore your opinion does not count.

Things don't just happen.

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