Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

montgo · 14-07-2015 10:43pm

Many thanks, Hermy

Hermy · 14-07-2015 10:47pm

Agree with you on the names.

montgo · 14-07-2015 10:53pm

Yes, I've just checked and it is John who married Hanora Tobin in 1914. Thx

L1011 · 15-07-2015 10:57pm

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635228#page/77/mode/1up - what is written after the brides name on all these weddings?

Edw Duffy and [I know her name is Elizabeth] Lennon in February 1844 is mine. It might just be "present" for the witnesses but I'm not sure.

Rootsireland have that marriage transcribed as April 1844 when it clearly isn't, so this has helped tidy stuff up at least!

Hermy · 15-07-2015 11:00pm

For some of them at least it looks like Present.

P. Breathnach · 15-07-2015 11:21pm

Hermy wrote: »

For some of them at least it looks like Present.

Agreed, and I think it refers to the witnesses.

clashburke · 15-07-2015 11:29pm

CeannRua wrote: »

I wonder if this might mean that the child was baptised by his father, and that the father bore witness to same. Are there notations about dues paid to the priest on the page and is there any difference between the fee paid for this baptism and others?

Taking validi as a mistake for valide, it should be something something like: 'By ceremony only, because he was validly baptized by the father, the father providing testimony [of this fact].'

Or maybe: 'By ceremony only, the father providing testimony that he was validly baptized by the father.'

After a bit of a debate on a Latin translation forum this is their current thinking. You werent far away!!

Hermy · 15-07-2015 11:30pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

...refers to the witnesses.

Exactly.

CeannRua · 16-07-2015 7:33am

montgo wrote: »

Help please with Latin translation Page 29 - 2nd record right hand page

??? (In E de G - in Church of Glenroe maybe) ??? Thomas Lee & Margaret Ryan. Sps Thomas Ryan & Brigida Lee of Ballintubber. Married to Hanora Tobin Feb 24 1914

The second and third words are 'Pastor bap.' I think the first word mostly reads 'Inf.' This is a guess: inf is used as an abbreviation of infrascriptus so it would mean 'The undersigned priest baptised...' Think you're right about 'E de G.'

montgo · 16-07-2015 10:34am

CeannRua wrote: »

The second and third words are 'Pastor bap.' I think the first word mostly reads 'Inf.' This is a guess: inf is used as an abbreviation of infrascriptus so it would mean 'The undersigned priest baptised...' Think you're right about 'E de G.'

Many thanks for that.

I've just read that the church in Ballyorgan wasn't built until 1857. However, "according to Begley, the old parish of Darragh (now Glenroe) included Farrihy, Kildorrery and Mullahy. All three of these places are in the county of Cork" so might explain why the priest recorded the church where the baptism took place.

Thomas from Presence · 21-07-2015 2:48pm

Help! "Anne Daughter of Ptk XXXXX and Mary Hoey" - can anyone make out Patrick's surname?

montgo · 21-07-2015 2:54pm

Perhaps could be Nowlan? Difficult to read.

Thomas from Presence · 21-07-2015 3:10pm

montgo wrote: »

Perhaps could be Nowlan? Difficult to read.

Perfect. I was hoping to find the RootsIreland transcription that corresponded as I'm manually looking at sponsors and mothers name and wanted their second opinion (since you can't search either of those names on their databases...). They were working off the original books so after a while to me everything looks like "Brunkard" but they can be more correct.

Thank you for your help!

RGM · 26-07-2015 4:38pm

In looking for a marriage, I found the groom's name at an appropriate date, but instead of listing a marriage it just says "Certificate to (groom's name)."

What does that mean?

montgo · 26-07-2015 5:32pm

Has anyone else noticed that Roots Ireland may have had a different/copy of some of the records or else the records were easier to decipher when their transcriptions were done?

Look at the last baptism record for June 1871.

Roots have the sponsors as John McCarthy & Catherine O'Meara (Kate Mara) and I'm confident that those names are correct

I have seen other instances where it is impossible to decipher a name but yet Roots apparently have the correct name.

Hermy · 26-07-2015 5:57pm

I think Roots were looking at the original books rather than just the scans.

montgo · 26-07-2015 7:02pm

Thx, Hermy. Surely, the original Parish registers are still held by the parish priests locally. I had thought that the transcriptions were done back in the 70s/80s directly from the films.

pinkypinky · 26-07-2015 7:45pm

No, they were done from the original books in the 70s/80s.

montgo · 26-07-2015 9:02pm

Thanks. Were the Parish registers sent to a central location (each Diocese) or done locally?

P. Breathnach · 26-07-2015 9:51pm

RGM wrote: »

In looking for a marriage, I found the groom's name at an appropriate date, but instead of listing a marriage it just says "Certificate to (groom's name)."

What does that mean?

Do you know if it was the groom's home parish?

My guess is that the marriage took place elsewhere, and the record was simply to have a record in the parish that he was married (and thus not free to marry somebody else).

pinkypinky · 26-07-2015 10:20pm

montgo wrote: »

Thanks. Were the Parish registers sent to a central location (each Diocese) or done locally?

I'm not 100% but I think they were done individually, without any links between separate groups.

shanew · 27-07-2015 7:46am

montgo wrote: »

Thanks. Were the Parish registers sent to a central location (each Diocese) or done locally?

Each parish kept it's own registers, usually at the parish church. Any recordable event taking place in Chapels of ease of the parish should also have been noted in this. Sometimes registers turn up for chapels of ease. I've heard the some priests noted baptisms and marriage in notebooks and even scraps of paper and transferred the details these to the registers later.

Church of England parishes in England and presumably Wales did send copies of register details to the Diocese, which are often available as what's referred to as Bishop's transcripts, which can be useful where there are gaps in records etc. As far as I know the Church of Ireland didn't do this.

cat_r · 27-07-2015 8:37am

This thread may get busier 😃 John Grenham has a link to it in his column in today's Irish Times

www. irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/irish-roots-reactions-to-the-national-library-s-parish-registers-site-1.2291108
(remove the space after www)

The Kurgan · 28-07-2015 9:37am

Have been looking for the Baptism record of an Anastasia Evoy / Anty Evoy (shorthand) in Taghmon Parish and came across the following Baptism December 1823.
Childs name looks to be Anastasia Evoy , can anyone with an eagle eye have a shot at the Parents Names. ??

Hermy · 28-07-2015 9:52am

Forenames look like Mathaü and Maria.

KildareFan · 28-07-2015 10:21am

Looks like Maria and Matthew alright. Would it be possible to provide a direct link to the page on the NLI site so that we could work with the original page, rather than an image?

P. Breathnach · 28-07-2015 10:49am

I also see Matthew (80% confident) and Maria (90%). Maria's surname might be Lamb.

[The date is 15 Sept.]

pinkypinky · 28-07-2015 11:05am

Could be Nathan for the father's name as well. I agree about Maria.

The Kurgan · 28-07-2015 11:30am

@Kildarefan sorry I should've of posted original link so you can compare other lettering ..oops

Initially I thought Mathew but comparing to other names/lettering in the register , the P.P seems to over emphasize his a's as if in Bold , his e's seem to loop at the end.

Or maybe I've just been looking at it too long!

Here's the original link , It's the second line on the first page
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634125#page/114/mode/1up

MaryLee55 · 28-07-2015 3:52pm

The Facebook Group "Deciphering Genealogy Script" offers additional help to accurately decipher genealogy documents. Find them in the Facebook Search Bar.

KildareFan · 28-07-2015 4:18pm

I've found an earlier baptism in the same parish for what looks like Mariam Gray/Evoy with parents Mathew Evoy/Gray and Alicia Farel [?] who may be related; I managed to lose the page unfortunately. It looks like your Anastasia's sponsors surnames were Prendergast and Cullen.

KildareFan · 28-07-2015 4:22pm

Some excerpts from Taghmon parish register for Evoy/Gray:

Thomas from Presence · 28-07-2015 4:44pm

This thread made it on to the Irish Times website!

Jellybaby1 · 29-07-2015 12:29am

Always felt the Master was looking over my shoulder!

Thomas from Presence · 29-07-2015 4:34pm

Two versions of the same thing. Anyone have any idea what the note in latin is?

If it's any help it looks like this guy was baptised twice (one RC and one COI).

Thomas from Presence · 29-07-2015 4:34pm

Two versions of the same thing. Anyone have any idea what the note in latin is?

If it's any help it looks like this guy was baptised twice (one RC and one COI).

CeannRua · 29-07-2015 8:31pm

Pater acatholicus conditionate baptizatus

Aineoil · 29-07-2015 8:52pm

Pater = father

acatholicus = non-Catholic

conditionate = not sure about this, but it could be conditionally

baptizatus = baptised

I'm only an amateur at this, so I'm sure other posters will be able to provide more information than I can. Please other posters, if I am wrong, correct me. It's the only way to learn.

Best of luck ceannrua.

L1011 · 29-07-2015 10:22pm

A conditional baptism is one done where its believed the child may already have a valid baptism - lost records or uncertainty over whether its 'acceptable'. Most of the christian churches accept each others baptisms, but this is still done to this day occasionally. If that note is on the later one by date I'd be pretty certain that's what it is.

RGM · 29-07-2015 11:38pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do you know if it was the groom's home parish?

My guess is that the marriage took place elsewhere, and the record was simply to have a record in the parish that he was married (and thus not free to marry somebody else).

A good thought.

Unfortunately this is the only mention I've been able to find of this marriage anywhere, including the civil index.

The couple are Patrick Hebron and Honor Meehan. I believe Honor was from Dunmore, Galway. Patrick was born in Roscommon. Their children were born in the parish of Kiltullagh, Roscommon, the first baptism I've found being from 1881. The possible marriage entry I found is in the Kiltulla register on 23 Aug 1880 and just says "Certificate to P. Hebron Granlahan" (the correct townland). But the Dunmore register doesn't go to 1880 on the NLI site and rootsireland comes up empty. And as I said, I've had no luck with the civil index.

Rick Barrett · 30-07-2015 3:33am

Reference microfilm No. 04789/03 marriages of Tracton Abbey, Diocese of Cork & Ross. Page 37. Entry on right side of page, third from top... Date appears to be November 17, 1862.
Bride appears to be Julia Leahy and the Groom, James Daly.
I think the surname of the groom may be recorded incorrectly. I think it should be Barrett... James Barrett. So I am wondering if anyone has ever come across an entry wherein the parish priest recorded the family name of the groom incorrectly? For instance, flip-flopping the name of groom with that of a witness? Also, the entire entry is barely legible.
Thank you, Rick Barrett

Hermy · 30-07-2015 9:58am

The same record appears on irishgenealogy.ie and I think the image quality is a wee bit better if that's any help.

link

CeannRua · 30-07-2015 8:31pm

Hermy wrote: »

The same record appears on irishgenealogy.ie and I think the image quality is a wee bit better if that's any help.

link

If I'm looking at the right one, the date is 27 October 1862. Re the groom's surname, anyone can make a mistake. I think both the bride's surname and that of one of the witnesses though is Foley. It's difficult to read but I can't see Leahy at all.

clashburke · 31-07-2015 11:49pm

http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000633445#page/48/mode/1up

Anyone make out the 2 notes on the second marriage down on page 48?

Has it something to do with cousins?

Cheers

Hermy · 01-08-2015 12:11am

Not sure what it means but I think it reads something like this

3rd et 4th consanguinity duplici capite a cardinal dispensation

annalynskey · 01-08-2015 12:54pm

Next to the marriage of my Great Great aunt Mary Lynch /Lynskey and a james Geraghty
( Kilmore erris Nov 3rd 1863) it says 4 et 4 .Would that make them first or second cousins?
Mary's father was Philip Lynch / Lynskey and James's mother was Bridget Lynch . Or could they be related in a different way? Mary and James left Binghamstown nr Belmullet mayo for Rush Indiana about 1864/65.

L1011 · 01-08-2015 12:59pm

Hermy wrote: »

Not sure what it means but I think it reads something like this

3rd et 4th consanguinity duplici capite a cardinal dispensation

3rd degree of consanguinity is uncle/niece or aunt/nephew and fourth is first cousins. How you get a mix of the two of those I don't know! Dispensations were allowed and given so that's presumably the rest of it.

First cousins marrying is legal for civil marriages here but I'm not sure about the uncle/niece possibility.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 01-08-2015 1:29pm

4 et 4 means they shared the same gg grandparents.

clashburke · 01-08-2015 2:51pm

so would 3 et 4 mean the great grand parent of the one person was the great great grand parent of the other?

CeannRua · 01-08-2015 6:09pm

clashburke wrote: »

http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000633445#page/48/mode/1up

Anyone make out the 2 notes on the second marriage down on page 48?

Has it something to do with cousins?

Cheers

Something like 3tio et 4to consangtis duplicis & capite a cardinali dispensatis.

Not sure about the ending of the word I have as duplicis but would guess that this, in conjunction with the mentions of 3rd and 4th, means that the bride and groom were doubly related; so down different lines. The reference to the cardinal probably means that the dispensation was granted by Cardinal Paul Cullen who was Archbishop of Dublin at the time.

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page