Bought off plans - dispute over specs

eoin99 · 21-01-2020 2:31pm #1

Hi There,

Just looking for a bit of a steer. So I've deposit paid, contract signed etc on a new home in an estate, which we bought off plans, which is now nearing completion.

The specifications included the wording "tiling to floors and wet area walls in main bathrooms and en-suite". There is a bathroom upstairs, an ensuite upstairs as well as small bathroom downstairs.

Upon doing the snag list with my engineer, we were advised by the developer that the downstairs bathroom floor doesn't come tiled as part of the build to be handed over. I've queried this and got nowhere to date.

To me, its clear from the specifications that were part of the contract, that all "bathrooms" came with the floor tiled. I don't want to get into a big dispute with the developer & not sure how much grounds we have to argue. It's not a huge job to do ourselves, but its the principal involved & of course additional outlay on tradesmen to complete the job.

Any advice would be great.

21-01-2020 2:34pm

Downstairs toilet is not technically a "bathroom". Sneaky though.

Doop · 21-01-2020 2:36pm

Get onto your solicitor to examine the situation in the contract documents. The document you are looking at may well be a brochure of sorts with lots of small print.

I certainly would want it looked at, if the builders right then so be it, but I wouldn't be rolling over. You are paying enough as it is.

However I wouldn't really class a guest WC as a bathroom. Does it have any showering facilities?

eoin99 · 21-01-2020 2:37pm

ronoc wrote: »

Downstairs toilet is not technically a "bathroom". Sneaky though.

Hmm yes very sneaky if thats the case. My reading is that the wording "bathrooms and ensuite" must mean both bathrooms and en-suite.

eoin99 · 21-01-2020 2:38pm

Doop wrote: »

Get onto your solicitor to examine the situation in the contract documents. The document you are looking at may well be a brochure of sorts with lots of small print.

I certainly would want it looked at, if the builders right then so be it, but I wouldn't be rolling over. You are paying enough as it is.

However I wouldn't really class a guest WC as a bathroom. Does it have any showering facilities?

Thanks. I'm meeting solicitor to sign other docs shortly, so will discuss it.

Re showering facilities - No it just has the a toilet. So I guess technically its not a bathroom but a WC.

seamus · 21-01-2020 2:39pm

^^ As above.

If it's in a new estate with a load of builds, then go down and talk to the foreman on site. They will have a stack of the same tiles and tilers constantly in and out. Explain that you didn't realise the downstairs didn't come tiled and ask if he can sort out one of the lads to do it as a nixer. You'll get it done before you move in and for a fraction of the price.

LiamaDelta · 21-01-2020 3:09pm

Does it say main bathrooms or main bathroom?. It's a bit of a contradiction really, as there can't be more than one 'main' bathroom. But if it's plural then your interpretation is understandable.

Ray Palmer · 21-01-2020 5:32pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Does it say main bathrooms or main bathroom?. It's a bit of a contradiction really, as there can't be more than one 'main' bathroom. But if it's plural then your interpretation is understandable.

It sounds like down stairs is a toilet. No bath or shower then it isn't a bathroom.

Browney7 · 21-01-2020 5:42pm

The stingyness, meanness and sneakiness of this contract provision really is something to behold.

Ray Palmer · 21-01-2020 5:54pm

Browney7 wrote: »

The stingyness, meanness and sneakiness of this contract provision really is something to behold.

Not really they never said they would tile it by the sounds of it. The OP seems to have made an incorrect assumption

lawred2 · 21-01-2020 5:58pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It sounds like down stairs is a toilet. No bath or shower then it isn't a bathroom.

fairly standard that such rooms are dubbed as bathrooms in developer and EA parlance...

4 bed 4 bathrooms doesn't usually mean 4 shower rooms..

I think the OP has interpreted the literature pretty much like 99.9% of everyone else would...

awec · 21-01-2020 6:01pm

ronoc wrote: »

Downstairs toilet is not technically a "bathroom". Sneaky though.

I don't think they're being sneaky.

It's just a confusion over terminology. Downstairs toilets are not bathrooms, though lots of people do call them bathrooms in every day conversation.

2020Vision · 21-01-2020 6:01pm

lawred2 wrote: »

fairly standard that such rooms are dubbed as bathrooms in developer and EA parlance...

4 bed 4 bathrooms doesn't usually mean 4 shower rooms..

I think the OP has interpreted the literature pretty much like 99.9% of everyone else would...

I interpret the word "bathroom" as meaning a room with a bath in it. Am I being pedantic?

lawred2 · 21-01-2020 6:04pm

2020Vision wrote: »

I interpret the word "bathroom" as meaning a room with a bath in it. Am I being pedantic?

so when you read "4 bed 4 bath" you expect to see 4 baths in a house?

2020Vision · 21-01-2020 6:06pm

lawred2 wrote: »

so when you read "4 bed 4 bath" you expect to see 4 baths in a house?

I suspect that you probably have just about sufficient grey matter to answer that one all by yourself! But, just to be on the safe side, yes I do!

Wildly Boaring · 21-01-2020 6:07pm

lawred2 wrote: »

so when you read "4 bed 4 bath" you expect to see 4 baths in a house?

They advertised on Daft etc as 3 bathroom
Can't have it both ways

lawred2 · 21-01-2020 6:17pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

They advertised on Daft etc as 3 bathroom
Can't have it both ways

In what sense?

I'm not trying to have anything both ways. I can simply see how the OP expected to see his downstairs toilet tiled.

lawred2 · 21-01-2020 6:17pm

2020Vision wrote: »

I suspect that you probably have just about sufficient grey matter to answer that one all by yourself! But, just to be on the safe side, yes I do!

You'll be a long time waiting for one of those houses then

Thoie · 21-01-2020 6:29pm

My new house (about 18 months ago) had similar wording, and the downstairs toilet was tiled. It's not a guarantee, but your expectation isn't bizarre.

At the end of the day I wouldn't cancel the sale over it, but like Doop said, I wouldn't roll over either. Check for things like shaver sockets etc as well - they weren't specifically called out on my documents, and the builders refused point blank to put them in even though they were on the electrical schematic that I got a sneak view of.

Marcusm · 21-01-2020 6:29pm

eoin99 wrote: »

Thanks. I'm meeting solicitor to sign other docs shortly, so will discuss it.

Re showering facilities - No it just has the a toilet. So I guess technically its not a bathroom but a WC.

It’s not a bathroom, it won’t come tiled and you’ll get no satisfaction out of discussing it with the solicitor.

Wildly Boaring · 21-01-2020 6:31pm

lawred2 wrote: »

In what sense?

I'm not trying to have anything both ways. I can simply see how the OP expected to see his downstairs toilet tiled.

I meant the developer trying to have it both ways.
Advertising as 3 bed 3 bath.
All bathrooms tiled.
Oh no that's not a bathroom, that's a WC.
A phrase not even used in Ireland!!

lawred2 · 21-01-2020 6:33pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I meant the developer trying to have it both ways.
Advertising as 3 bed 3 bath.
All bathrooms tiled.
Oh no that's not a bathroom, that's a WC.
A phrase not even used in Ireland!!

This is boards though.. so the OP is clearly a fool with unrealistic expectations

Wildly Boaring · 21-01-2020 6:36pm

Thoie wrote: »

My new house (about 18 months ago) had similar wording, and the downstairs toilet was tiled. It's not a guarantee, but your expectation isn't bizarre.
.

Ditto, bought in November.

missmatty · 21-01-2020 6:37pm

Same here.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-01-2020 6:43pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

I meant the developer trying to have it both ways.
Advertising as 3 bed 3 bath.
All bathrooms tiled.
Oh no that's not a bathroom, that's a WC.
A phrase not even used in Ireland!!

It says "main bathrooms" and ensuite.
The downstairs toilet isn't a "main" bathroom, otherwise what is a "main"?

Browney7 · 21-01-2020 6:44pm

Are there a list of rooms with dimensions listed on the contract OP.

It seems very much in bad faith from the developer to squeeze out as much margin as they can. On a six figure purchase it looks incredibly petty but that's just me

Wildly Boaring · 21-01-2020 6:50pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It says "main bathrooms" and ensuite.
The downstairs toilet isn't a "main" bathroom, otherwise what is a "main"?

If being pedantic it says main bathrooms and ensuite.

They've tiled 1 bathroom and 1 ensuite

How can there be 1 bathrooms??

eoin99 · 21-01-2020 6:59pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Does it say main bathrooms or main bathroom?. It's a bit of a contradiction really, as there can't be more than one 'main' bathroom. But if it's plural then your interpretation is understandable.

Specifically says "main bathrooms and ensuite", which as you say is a bit of a contradiction, but my read was that then both bathrooms (be it WC or bathroom!) and the en-suite were being tiled.

Thoie wrote: »

My new house (about 18 months ago) had similar wording, and the downstairs toilet was tiled. It's not a guarantee, but your expectation isn't bizarre.

At the end of the day I wouldn't cancel the sale over it, but like Doop said, I wouldn't roll over either. Check for things like shaver sockets etc as well - they weren't specifically called out on my documents, and the builders refused point blank to put them in even though they were on the electrical schematic that I got a sneak view of.

This is how I'm approaching it, as it's more an inconvenience now with additional cost / tradesmen to source to get the final finish in - but the house was definitely never 'sold' to me as, needing the downstairs toilet/bathroom tiled. I essentially just feel misled - whether thats my own oversight or mis read of the documents or not.

Appreciate the responses.

Steer55 · 21-01-2020 7:45pm

eoin99 wrote: »

Re showering facilities - No it just has the a toilet. So I guess technically its not a bathroom but a WC.

Does it have a wash basin?

stiofan85 · 21-01-2020 7:46pm

We bought new last year and like you spec said tiled floors in bathrooms but I took the downstairs as a toilet and not a bathroom. It wasn't tiled and I never expected it to be. I guess it depends on who is reading it. We wanted to do our own thing in line with the rest of downstairs.

Not sure if it is sneaky or not. For a small jax and a few tiles it can be sorted easily and for little money... Probably not worth disputing much if it delays closing and could cost more rent etc... Moving gafs is stressful enough

Salary Negotiator · 21-01-2020 7:50pm

My downstairs “bathroom” was tiled as part of the purchase.

I’d keep arguing it, any ambiguity should benefit the purchaser.

Steer55 · 21-01-2020 7:56pm

My downstairs 'loo is quite roomy with washbasin and shelfing. House insurance company said for insurance purposes, it's classed as a bathroom. Confusing!

fineso.mom · 21-01-2020 8:12pm

Were the specs specific to your house or were they in a brouchure that applied to all the houses?
If it's a general description of all the houses then I could see why they say main bathrooms plural. Meaning, 'all the main bathrooms (in this particular type of house), will be tiled.

Very annoying though, and I'm sure plenty of people would assume the same as the op.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-01-2020 11:58pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

If being pedantic it says main bathrooms and ensuite.

They've tiled 1 bathroom and 1 ensuite

How can there be 1 bathrooms??

Count how many baths then if being pedantic. One and it's the main one.

LiamaDelta · 22-01-2020 10:13am

IMO you're definitely right to expect it to be tiled. But knowing the industry at the moment many contractors/developers are trying to squeeze every last cent of margin so I'm not surprised. I'd say your best hope is to meet in the middle and ask them to leave the tiles there for you to put down yourself.

L1011 · 22-01-2020 10:57pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Count how many baths then if being pedantic. One and it's the main one.

Both my current house and the place I was before have no bathrooms at all then...

The "main" bit to me suggests they meant only the big/family bathroom (plus the ensuite), but the plural would make nearly everyone assume and expect the small one done too. Its going to cost them very, very little in the grand scheme of things.

Marcusm · 23-01-2020 12:25am

L1011 wrote: »

Both my current house and the place I was before have no bathrooms at all then...

The "main" bit to me suggests they meant only the big/family bathroom (plus the ensuite), but the plural would make nearly everyone assume and expect the small one done too. Its going to cost them very, very little in the grand scheme of things.

But would you want it done with poor grace and less attention to detail?

Salary Negotiator · 23-01-2020 10:36pm

Marcusm wrote: »

But would you want it done with poor grace and less attention to detail?

Doubt the tiler being paid by the hour will care that the developer messed up.

faceman · 24-01-2020 1:15pm

Seems quite straightforward. If the house was sold as 3 bathroom (main, en-suite and downstairs) then the reasonable expectation is that all 3 would be tiled unless the brochure specified differently.

I wouldn’t let it slide OP. I’d kick up a fuss unless of course the fine print provides clarity

Bought off plans - dispute over specs

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