NPPR charges over €7000

Simple_Simone wrote: »

Why not start by searching Boards.ie for NPPR - you'll find loads of threads.


Bottom line is that the Bart Simpson defence won't save her! The best thing for her to do is to contact the Local Authority involved and haggle.

Enforcement is now with Revenue. Passed there in 2014, there is no scope for haggling unless the house was demonstrably uninhabitable. The solicitor will not release the funds until proof of payment or clearance is delivered.

Suckit wrote: »

I am enquiring about NPPR, what is it and does it have to be paid? Can it be disputed? Any advice at all.


Selling a house and she was told that she needed to pay NPPR charges of around €7500 (I don't know the exact figure).

When she queried what it was she was told that it is a charge for €200 per year between the years of 2009 - 2013, so she pointed out the obvious, which is that, that totals to €800.
She was then told that there is a fee for those that didn't pay it on time. So she then told them that had never heard of it, to pay it.

They said that she couldn't have not known about it if she was living in Ireland, as they ran a campaign on the radio, TV, magazines, newspapers, internet and door to door with flyers.

So she is now wondering what options are (house is not sold). Can it be disputed, would they agree to installments, can she pay the €800, could she go to court taking oath that she never heard of it, is it worth the hassle etc.

She won’t be able to sell the house till she’s paid the €800 plus late fees and penalties €7500. Legally the sale can’t be completed unless Revenue clear the way. Don’t waste any more money on a solicitor trying to fight it. If you're speculating in property in any way you need to get legal advice about your obligations as well as your rights and entitlements. If you don’t these are the consequences.

Contact Eirgrid and they can tell you who was billed during those years for the electricity. That'll knock a few quid off the top for each year you can produce a bill with the occupiers (your's, your wife) name on it

If the property was vacant most of the time you could argue for a exception. If the bills were still in the occupiers name then all well and good.

By the sounds of your description, you'd be exempt from some of the years. The earlier ones are the more expensive. 2009 alone is €2K so work from there and see what you can cut down.

Worst comes to the worst a good solicitor will pay it out of the proceeds of the sale so you don't have to come up with it upfront. The other party just has to accept the undertaking which any decent solicitor would.

The charges for 2009 are set to expire in March 2021 and every year after that if you want to hold on till then but that's your call as you might loose more than €7K.

And forget about legal challenge. The fine is almost certainly unsound but you're up against the state and they will always have deeper pockets.

Section 7 of the Local Government (Charges) Act 2009 provides that if the property is sold without paying off outstanding charges, the new owner could be liable for the outstanding charges. Any such liability would end 12 years after the charge was due.

this is from Citizens info - not sure when liability ends - 2025 ?

Suckit wrote: »

I wasn't trying to be smart saying €800.

Your post says otherwise:

“so she pointed out the obvious, which is that, that totals to €800.“

Squatter wrote: »

Probably worth reminding those who have forgotten that the NPPR was the brainchild of the Green Party's loathsome ex-leader John Gormless. (And to think that I once voted for Trevor Sargent! )

The charge was. I'll think you'll find that the fine was Noonan's brain child but I don't blame you thinking otherwise. FG not entirely keen to stand over it now.

Askthe EA wrote: »

Doubt that. GDPR.

You are indeed correct. Wasn't clear. They will tell you if you were paying the bill or not at the very least. Best place to start. The years they can't tell you about are still useful.

mickdw wrote: »

No sympathy. I see this catching alot of people however it was heavily advertised at the time but people just didn't bother.
The 200 or 250 per year was a small amount. What they then did was added 20 per month penalty. When this went to second year unpaid, you were paying 40 per month penalty etc.
There was then a period when people were allowed to pay 4k or so to completely discharge the debt and at that stage if you contacted the council there were option for part payment or instalments etc. If you still ignored all, it went to 7k plus and was to be recovered by revenue on sale or transfer of the property.
I believe that it will no longer be collected after a certain date so if you hold the property long enough it will be ok, otherwise it's owed and no way out if selling today.

Some interesting advice here. Am I right to understand that this charge becomes "dead, not collectable etc " after 2023 ?

I have a holiday home, purchased in 2007, did`nt pay the NPPR, was told by the County Council that I have to pay the €7200.

Property tax paid up to date by the way

I've done a spot of googling. Donegal CC have a cheat sheet in PDF form. it says the following:

.3 UNINHABITABLE
An exemption is being sought on the basis that the property was
uninhabitable. Copy of Land Registry Folio for the property, to be provided in
all cases.
 Photographs of the property and a declaration of the condition of the property,
including details of when it was last occupied, should be submitted as part of
a covering letter.
 Details of the planning reference number if the property is a new build.
 Alternatively, if the property is for sale, details of the estate agent who is
selling the property or a property brochure should be submitted.
 The following criteria is referenced in determining if a property is
uninhabitable:
 Does the property have a sound roof?
 Is it so affected by dampness as to make it unsuitable for habitation?
 Does it have toilet / bathroom facilities?
 Does it have a heating system?
 Does it have a water supply? (a supply that is disconnected only would
not deem a property uninhabitable).
 Does it have windows and doors?
 Does it have an electricity supply connected? (a supply that is
disconnected only would not deem a property uninhabitable)
 Is the house dilapidated and run down?
 Does it require major repairs to make it habitable?
A number of the above criteria will have to be met to deem the property
uninhabitable. If necessary, an inspection can be carried out following receipt of
the above information. If the property was undergoing renovations during the
years 2009 – 2013, evidence to support this, in the form of receipts, photographs,
etc, should be submitted.
The Council reserves the right to seek further clarification should the need
arise.

We'd have no issue with them inspecting it. In fact we applied for PP for a change of use in 2009 with photographs of the outside all boarded up. This might help. It would all be on record with SDCC.

splinter65 wrote: »

If it had a roof and a water supply and had the capability to be reconnected to electricity then it was habitable.

Are you familiar with the process? It does seem a little at odds with that Donegal CC memo, which us not as black and white.

Suckit wrote: »

I am enquiring about NPPR, what is it and does it have to be paid? Can it be disputed? Any advice at all.


Selling a house and she was told that she needed to pay NPPR charges of around €7500 (I don't know the exact figure).

When she queried what it was she was told that it is a charge for €200 per year between the years of 2009 - 2013, so she pointed out the obvious, which is that, that totals to €800.
She was then told that there is a fee for those that didn't pay it on time. So she then told them that had never heard of it, to pay it.

They said that she couldn't have not known about it if she was living in Ireland, as they ran a campaign on the radio, TV, magazines, newspapers, internet and door to door with flyers.

So she is now wondering what options are (house is not sold). Can it be disputed, would they agree to installments, can she pay the €800, could she go to court taking oath that she never heard of it, is it worth the hassle etc.

From what I remember, the campaign referenced this as 'the holiday home tax' which may have gone over the head of people who didn't have a holiday home, or didnt class their NPPR as a holiday home for whatever reason. I had some dealings with this for a friend recently who came across the same issue when trying to sell, and we applied for exemption for the years they lived there, and paid it for the rest of the years.

If the property was rented out though, surely whoever was responsible for doing the tax returns for those periods should have brought this to the attention of whoever this post is about, in a similar way to the property tax.

Coyler wrote: »

In the vast majority of cases people do their own tax return and at that point revenue wasn't over it and registering with the RTB didn't help either. You either knew about it or you didn't.

And as for property tax, I completely agree with you, revenue made sure it knew who the owner was of every property in the country to the point that tenants had to clarify with revenue that they weren't the owners of the property they were occupying. Had that lovely back and forth with them

I guess going from my experience people with rental properties tended to have a professional do the taxes as their fees were deductible anyway - but as you say things were different then in regards to who was overseeing things, and in lots of other ways as well!

I myself am in a sort of similar situation except unlike the OP I am not selling the property. It was inherited in 2008 and is an old farmhouse type but is in a generally very poor condition and no-one has lived there since my late grandmother passed away in 2005, she moved out of the house, three years prior to her death and lived with my parents.

I am thinking of now renovating this house as it is in a very scenic location, at the time I didn't pay any property tax or NPPR on the house and haven't since. However I am wondering what is the next move in regards because if I was facing a big bill like the OP in question I would demolish and rebuild.