'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

zell12 · 29-04-2018 12:04pm #1

- There are and will always be crooked cops but to have a crooked police force, that’s something else
- that can boast a police force that used an actual laundry to launder money that should have gone to the State.
- where law officers could falsify up to one million breath tests and still keep their chief in her job.
- that had a Minister of Finance with no bank account, who we saw fit to lead us for eleven years (Bertie)
Stolen from Mirror

Given it's been going on for the past century, planning, housing, nepotism, employment, emigration, etc etc
When do we realise that we want this and we endorse this in our country?

wakka12 · 29-04-2018 12:09pm

And what about the covered up paedo rings by british police forces? Im sure every western country has also had tabloids releasing stupid headlines like that about their own country too, we all love a bit of drama

mikemac2 · 29-04-2018 12:11pm

Ahern was finance minister 25 years ago and many of the senior ministers from that era are dead.

Why keep using it as a point?

cantdecide · 29-04-2018 12:13pm

Anyone know how to get some of this sweet sweet corruption money? I have no morals already if that helps. PM me...

zell12 · 29-04-2018 12:13pm

cantdecide wrote: »

Anyone know how to get some of this sweet sweet corruption money? I have no morals already if that helps. PM me...

Run for election next year.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 29-04-2018 12:15pm

wakka12 wrote: »

And what about the covered up paedo rings by british police forces? Im sure every western country has also had tabloids releasing stupid headlines like that about their own country too, we all love a bit of drama

Clearly the U.K. has its own problems but ireland is bad enough.

I don’t actually think the corruption is a century old, it comes from the post war haughey generation.

suicide_circus · 29-04-2018 12:17pm

Is the first post missing from this thread?

NIMAN · 29-04-2018 12:18pm

So we are worse than :

The US
Russian
Italy
UK
Uganda
Haiti
Iraq ????????

Sonics2k · 29-04-2018 12:20pm

wakka12 wrote: »

And what about the covered up paedo rings by british police forces? Im sure every western country has also had tabloids releasing stupid headlines like that about their own country too, we all love a bit of drama

I mean, I'm no fan of what the British Police did over there, but the exact same thing happened here.

TheValeyard · 29-04-2018 12:20pm

NIMAN wrote: »

So we are worse than :

The US
Russian
Italy
UK
Uganda
Haiti
Iraq ????????

Id add Malta, Greece, Spain to that list

seachto7 · 29-04-2018 12:20pm

wakka12 wrote: »

And what about the covered up paedo rings by british police forces? Im sure every western country has also had tabloids releasing stupid headlines like that about their own country too, we all love a bit of drama

What’s stupid about that story ?

seachto7 · 29-04-2018 12:21pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

So we are worse than :

The US
Russian
Italy
UK
Uganda
Haiti
Iraq ????????

Id add Malta, Greece, Spain to that list

Out of curiosity how are we worse than Spain ? Equal id say

29-04-2018 12:29pm

America is easily the most corrupt with their lobbying and Super PACs.

SnazzyPig · 29-04-2018 12:29pm

Move to Italy, the transparency capital of Western Civilisation.....

TerrorFirmer · 29-04-2018 12:34pm

While this gets thrown around a lot it's pretty baseless. Every country has significant problems but on the whole, Ireland is not considered a corrupt country at all, within Europe, let alone the 'western world'.

NIMAN · 29-04-2018 12:38pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

While this gets thrown around a lot it's pretty baseless. Every country has significant problems but on the whole, Ireland is not considered a corrupt country at all, within Europe, let alone the 'western world'.

But that'll not persuade a certain element of Irish society who can't say enough bad things about the place, thinking rest of the world is perfect.

Agricola · 29-04-2018 12:41pm

There's plenty of corruption here but at least there is some giveback to those that need it, or there was in times gone by. Generous welfare state, good pensions for the elderly relative to other countries, the introduction of largely free third level education during the boom, (how many Irish people left college from the late 90's to the late 00's with practically no debt to speak of)
Schemes like Free Travel which, ok, was a ploy to buy votes, but which is a fantastic asset to the old and others.

Now imagine the US, where the corruption is orders of magnitude worse but the ordinary person sees no real benefit. Bar being told how "the American dream allows you the freedom to work in 3 jobs and go to a community college at night to try to get yourself out of poverty"

Suckit · 29-04-2018 12:42pm

zell12 wrote: »

Given it's been going on for the past century, planning, housing, nepotism, employment, emigration, etc etc
When do we realise that we want this and we endorse this in our country?

Given the amount of passing the buck in the first page alone, i am guessing it will be a long time.

razorblunt · 29-04-2018 12:50pm

Yes, top of the list!

What do we win?
Who did we bribe to win?

The Hound Gone Wild · 29-04-2018 1:05pm

It's not even the most corrupt country on the island.

Mutant z · 29-04-2018 1:06pm

Any of the problems in Ireland could also be found elsewhere in western Europe.

whisky_galore · 29-04-2018 1:23pm

We are good at outing corruption.....it's what happens afterwards is the problem. Justice is rarely if ever served.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-04-2018 1:29pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

We are good at outing corruption.....it's what happens afterwards is the problem. Justice is rarely if ever served.

Because we don't hold the Powers that Be accountable.

We pissed and moan at the barstool.

Mutant z · 29-04-2018 1:32pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

whisky_galore wrote: »

We are good at outing corruption.....it's what happens afterwards is the problem. Justice is rarely if ever served.

Because we don't hold the Powers that Be accountable.

We pissed and moan at the barstool.

Indeed we keep electing them into office time and again we seem to never learn.

29-04-2018 2:15pm

I'm curious.... which countries are being held up as being better than Ireland?

Odhinn · 29-04-2018 2:19pm

zell12 wrote: »

Given it's been going on for the past century, planning, housing, nepotism, employment, emigration, etc etc
When do we realise that we want this and we endorse this in our country?

Ireland might more properly be said to be the most corrupt country that has delusions that it is otherwise.

Allinall · 29-04-2018 2:26pm

zell12 wrote: »

Run for election next year.

How did you get on OP, when you ran for election to do your bit to rid us of all this corruption?

zell12 · 29-04-2018 6:32pm

Years of gawking at NamaWineLake who has a microscope for corruption

Tournament · 29-04-2018 6:51pm

Ireland bashing is tedious. We live in fantastic country that we won back and rebuilt for ourselves. The serial moaners need to be deported to South Africa or India. Let them beg to be allowed back in.

wakka12 · 29-04-2018 8:15pm

seachto7 wrote: »

What’s stupid about that story ?

Saying ireland is the most corrupt country in the west is a stupid headline,stated as if theres facts or basis for the headline when just one person believes that

storker · 29-04-2018 8:22pm

Tournament wrote: »

Ireland bashing is tedious. We live in fantastic country that we won back and rebuilt for ourselves. The serial moaners need to be deported to South Africa or India. Let them beg to be allowed back in.

beefburrito · 29-04-2018 8:29pm

No where else in the western world is the car insurance as expensive.

It's nothing to do with claims, the systems fcked up.

Fck the insurance company, they should pay for their gamble too...

This no claims bonus is bull**** too...

They take the bonus, it's not deducted from the insurance price...

Corrupted to the core, and we're all letting them ride us bareback without a reacharound.....

biko · 29-04-2018 8:50pm

When the "journalist" heads his own article with his own name

Pat Flanagan: 'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

instead of using an actual expert or source, then you know the rest will be the usual clickbait ****e.

Also his little sample of the Gardai hardly represents the country as a whole

He keeps saying "cops", like a feckin American. What a "douchebag".

chesterwoodman · 01-05-2018 8:43am

I havent visited all the countries in the western world.
I havent lived in all the countries in the western world.
I have however visited the majority and lived in five of the countries in the western world.
I can assure you that in my experience this is the most corrupt country i have visited or lived in .

relax carry on · 01-05-2018 8:51am

chesterwoodman wrote: »

I havent visited all the countries in the western world.
I havent lived in all the countries in the western world.
I have however visited the majority and lived in five of the countries in the western world.
I can assure you that in my experience this is the most corrupt country i have visited or lived in .

By what measure and in what (ways)?

gozunda · 01-05-2018 8:54am

It's great we are 'good' at some thing anyway

See:
https://www.transparency.ie/news_events/corruption-perceptions-index-2017

Ireland remains in 19th place on Transparency International’s 2017 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), which ranks 183 countries based on perceived levels of corruption.

Our latest trading party sits at no 77 ....

chesterwoodman · 01-05-2018 8:55am

The same as everyones, mostly personal experiences , knowledge, education and travel.

lawred2 · 01-05-2018 8:56am

NIMAN wrote: »

So we are worse than :

The US
Russian
Italy
UK
Uganda
Haiti
Iraq ????????

The Western World?

Maybe the understood meaning of that has changed

badtoro · 01-05-2018 8:58am

One of the biggest problems here is down to lack of genuine transparency & accountability which can be verified by independent actors.

Instead, society and the media is focused on "pay".

Until that changes, not much else will change.

Peregrinus · 01-05-2018 9:05am

chesterwoodman wrote: »

I havent visited all the countries in the western world.
I havent lived in all the countries in the western world.
I have however visited the majority and lived in five of the countries in the western world.
I can assure you that in my experience this is the most corrupt country i have visited or lived in .

But not in the experience of others, it seems. On Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index, we are ranked 19th out of 180 countries, ahead of (among others) France, Portugal, Israel, the Czech Republic, Spain, Italy and Hungary. We are one point worse than Austria, Belgium and the US, one point better than Japan.

chesterwoodman · 01-05-2018 9:35am

Peregrinus wrote: »

But not in the experience of others, it seems. On Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index, we are ranked 19th out of 180 countries, ahead of (among others) France, Portugal, Israel, the Czech Republic, Spain, Italy and Hungary. We are one point worse than Austria, Belgium and the US, one point better than Japan.

I am not corrupt .
I am not perceiving ireland to be corrupt.
I know its corrupt from personal experience.

Peregrinus · 01-05-2018 9:39am

chesterwoodman wrote: »

I am not corrupt .
I am not perceiving ireland to be corrupt.
I know its corrupt from personal experience.

Your perceptions may be based on your experience, chester, but you certainly do perceive Ireland to be corrupt. (Either that, or you have been lying on the internet, and you'd never do that, would you?)

And other people's perceptions are likewise based on their experience.

Cordell · 01-05-2018 9:48am

Western Europe: Italy and Greece and maybe Spain
Eastern Europe: holy sh*t
Western World: is has to be the US of A, no contest

Ireland? Just a little nepotism and cronyism and maybe the odd brown envelope. Cop on.

MayoSalmon · 01-05-2018 9:53am

Except its not

https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2017

chesterwoodman · 01-05-2018 9:54am

Perceiving for me is about receiving information , organising it and storing it.

I have done all that.

I know for a fact ireland is corrupt ..... Stored forever !

valoren · 01-05-2018 10:09am

You know those scenes around election time where the elected TD is elated and carried on the shoulders of others? Every time I see that I think they aren't happy that now they've been elected they look forward to the prospect of serving their constituents and making a difference but rather they are now on the gravy train with guaranteed pension nest eggs.

Just look at Michael Lowry. Whispers of corruption followed him with Esat Digifone. Then the McCracken Tribunal concluded that by having Ben Dunne no less finance his house extension that Lowry had evaded tax on the sum of £395,000.

Unacceptable.

So something was done about it. He was to resign from the cabinet. He was then told by John Bruton that he wouldn't be allowed stand for FG at the 97 election.

So Lowry resigned from the party.

Then he ran as an independent in the 97 election anyway and what happened?

Lowry topped the fcking poll.

:rolleyes:

And he did it again in 2002 and he did it again in 2007.

Kotek Besar · 01-05-2018 10:12am

I wouldn't use the term "corrupt", but having lived in the UK and in Ireland, I have experience of dealing with authorities on both sides of the Irish Sea..

In the UK, there are clearly published rules, in black and white, of what is and isn't so, what the criteria is and isn't, what is accepted and what isn't. Dealing with UK authorities is largely straightforward and transparent.

In Ireland, there may or may not be clearly published rules in black and white, but regardless, Irish officials tend to adopt a more "grey area" approach to matters. The attitude is more "ah sure, send it in and we'll have a look for you so". This is problematic as you never really know where you stand.

CrankyHaus · 01-05-2018 10:35am

We don't have that much illegal corruption, like bribery demands from the police and public service.

Compared to peer countries we do have unusually high amounts of legal corruption, morally corrupt behaviour that falls just inside the law.

This is the 'who you know' culture that people who have moved here from abroad, say the UK, told me they find strange.

A lot of Irish people are beneficiaries of this system which is why so many shout down any criticism of it.

I found a thread here on Boards on the faked Garda breathalyser figures to be a fascinating insight into this mentality. Many people, who from their other posts appear to be well inside the Irish system, were passionately arguing that nothing could be done to discipline Gardai falsifying figures and that nothing should be done.

Kotek Besar · 01-05-2018 10:45am

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Compared to peer countries we do have unusually high amounts of legal corruption, morally corrupt behaviour that falls just inside the law.

This is the 'who you know' culture that people who have moved here from abroad, say the UK, told me they find strange.

A lot of Irish people are beneficiaries of this system which is why so many shout down any criticism of it.

Exactly!

Another related quirk of Ireland is that a member of the Gardaí can countersign documents or application forms (such as, but not limited to, passport applications), to confirm the identity of a member of the public, who they may or may not know and, if you're not from the area, are new in town or are unknown to the Gardaí, this is somewhat a stumbling block!

twinytwo · 01-05-2018 10:47am

NIMAN wrote: »

So we are worse than :

The US
Russian
Italy
UK
Uganda
Haiti
Iraq ????????

I think the issue with Ireland is if you get caught nothing happens.

In China for example..because the government has to look like they are clamping down on corruption if you get caught you will more than likely end up in front of a firing squad

EdgeCase · 01-05-2018 10:53am

All I can tell you is that I worked in London in both finance and media and the old-school-tie clubs are a HUGE deal. Some of it is benign. Some of it most certainly is not.

Have a look at the great diversity in the last few British governments for example - they're all (or almost all) from the same 'public school' (expensive fee paying private schools to train people for public life) system type backgrounds and all went to the same two elite universities, where they studied very similar subjects.

Unfortunately, that kind of thing is everywhere and all you can really do is setup systems to try and remove it.

twinytwo wrote: »

I think the issue with Ireland is if you get caught nothing happens.

In China for example..because the government has to look like they are clamping down on corruption if you get caught you will more than likely end up in front of a firing squad

And if you're in the Government's golden circle, you can do whatever you like. If you criticise the Government - it's inexplicable house arrest without any due process, 'reeducation', disappearances etc etc.

China's a TERRIBLE example of how to deal with corruption.

'Ireland is the most corrupt country in the Western world'

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