Government considering dedicated Transport Police

n!ghtmancometh · 03-11-2018 3:59pm

bk wrote: »

I know all that, the point is to give them as examples of organisations that also have all those overheads and costs. If a relatively tiny Harbour and Airport Police can exist, then there is certainly no reason that a larger Transport Police can't exist.

BTW you mentioned a transport police needing, "commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors", with the exception of a commissioner, all those others would be needed anyway even if they were a separate division within the Gardai.

The only real extra cost would maybe be IT and HR and if you wanted you could share those with the Gardai, while keeping everything else separate. Many county councils do that throughout the country.

I think people are greatly overestimating how much it would cost as a separate division.

Even if it was a division within the Gardai, you'd still want them to hire extra Gardai/Transport Police rather then taking from other divisions. You'd still want to open a new police station at/nearby Hueston. You still want to train them up in the specifics of working around rail. You'd still need detectives, sergeants and inspectors. All those costs would still be the same either way.

The only question would it be more effective if it was independent or not.

Think you're underestimating the cost. Airport Police and Harbour Police have tiny areas to police so only need one station, a few vehicles and a limited number of supervising officers and regular beat officers. For a properly equipped transport police we would need multiples of that, then you would have to decide if the transport police would actually hold and process prisoners, execute bench warrants of people they come across who have them, take them to court, give evidence in court (this all takes a lot of time, usually OT, so money) and all the stuff that harbour and airport police do not do. If they don't, then Garda budget would have to be accordingly increased to deal with those situations. I think it would be quite expensive to do.

bk · 05-11-2018 4:17pm

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Think you're underestimating the cost. Airport Police and Harbour Police have tiny areas to police so only need one station, a few vehicles and a limited number of supervising officers and regular beat officers. For a properly equipped transport police we would need multiples of that, then you would have to decide if the transport police would actually hold and process prisoners, execute bench warrants of people they come across who have them, take them to court, give evidence in court (this all takes a lot of time, usually OT, so money) and all the stuff that harbour and airport police do not do. If they don't, then Garda budget would have to be accordingly increased to deal with those situations. I think it would be quite expensive to do.

You really wouldn't need many stations. Just two would nicely cover the Dublin Region. One at/near Hueston and Connolly.

At Connolly, they would have access to DART, Northern line, Maynooth Line, Red Luas Line and Busaras and only a short distance to all the buses at O'Connell St, Quays and Green Luas line. And of course Store Street Garda station is right there and if there was space they could be housed there or at Connolly if not.

At Hueston you can cover the Cork line, Red Luas line, lots of the buses heading to the East of the city.

No one is saying that they wouldn't work with and have a close relationship with the Gardai. Gardai could still of course respond to an incident on a bus if they are closer or if a transport police offer arrested some one further out, they could drop them off to the nearest Garda station.

It is more about having a force that is completely focused on and dedicated to policing public transport and the unique issues it experiences.

If they are another division in the Gardai, I can guarantee they will be pulled off to other areas in no time and we will be back at square one.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 05-11-2018 11:53pm

The way the transportation network is at the moment it is only inevitable before something like this needs to be established. The best way of setting it up would be to have no associated links to STT who currently do the trains and luas as security guards only.

Management and boards can established within the Department of Justice as it will be governed by that Department.

For such a force it would require a complaints commission which needs to set up separate from GSOC.

As for IT I believe it is a simple link of a Tetra based channel as all law/security enforcement are currently using it. The UK currently use a three way channel with Transport police/Regular police and PCOS's who are employed by the council. If an incident somehow comes to attention of all three agencies they refer to the three way channel.

With transport police it can work independently just like people working in the airport immgratation areas. They are Dept of Justice Clerical officers/Border agents and are not affiliated with anybody other than Justice and immigration. The officers in immgration interlink the investigations with An Garda Siochana so that would be a great template to build on.

Stephen15 · 06-11-2018 12:06am

bk wrote: »

If they are another division in the Gardai, I can guarantee they will be pulled off to other areas in no time and we will be back at square one.

I would assume such a unit would have to be funded by either or a mixture of CIE, IE, DoT, NTA, TII and/or Transdev also the DAA, DLHC and DPC (if airport and harbour police were to be included) rather than by the DoJ. I would sincerely hope that the organisations mentioned above would be holding AGS fully to account and ensuring that adquete Garda cover is ensured at all times. Just like the way concert promoters have to pay for their own Garda cover and Network Rail and TOCs fund the BTP.

Bray Head · 06-11-2018 11:16am

It would only make sense if a transport police was funded through the Department of Transport Vote. Separate budget, reporting lines and accounting officer.

Transport policing is not and never will be a priority for the Department of Justice.

Bray Head · 06-11-2018 11:16am

It would only make sense if a transport police was funded through the Department of Transport Vote. Separate budget, reporting lines and accounting officer.

Transport policing is not and never will be a priority for the Department of Justice.

ED E · 06-11-2018 8:48pm

Keeping them far FAR away from Templemore would also be advantageous.

Sgt. Bilko 09 · 06-11-2018 8:53pm

I agree there is other priorities for justice. It won't be set up in the near future knowing our government (past & present) maybe not at all. They cannot even run a reserve force as it is so this is something out of sorts for them to set up.

I do believe law enforcement is and should be kept under the remit of Justice. For better workings in court and using the DPP handling clerk's like Gardai do. Garda services centre would need to work Transport police given any any arrest and conviction and fines that are required for pulse. Pulse is bought and administered by Dept of Justice this wouldn't and will not be shared externally so I can't imagine NTA or anyone CIE have any sort of access for ops reasons. I can't imagine how a transportation policing system could work with Gardai requiring this information also.

Internally conflicts of interests would most definitely arise considering as public transportation strikes that would have an impact policing, where as AGS/PSNI cannot strike. I believe Policing cannot fall under NTA as this would mean that Union's and boards and it's own separate Court appearance officers would need to be separate yet work in tandem.

Kermit.de.frog · 16-11-2018 1:30am

Renewed calls for this

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1115/1011083-nbru-transport-police/

punisher5112 · 16-11-2018 8:44am

I was assaulted recently by a taxi driver while doing my job.

I kid you not I waited 3hrs30mins for Gardaì.

JayRoc · 16-11-2018 9:04am

Saw a bunch of leaflets in the luggage rack of a Dublin Bus, calling for the introduction of a Transport Police. I could be wrong but the impression I got was that they were put there by the driver.

Colonel Claptrap · 16-11-2018 9:08am

JayRoc wrote: »

Saw a bunch of leaflets in the luggage rack of a Dublin Bus, calling for the introduction of a Transport Police. I could be wrong but the impression I got was that they were put there by the driver.

NBRU have 'unofficially' done this before.

Tzardine · 16-11-2018 9:21am

Saw the leaflets on the train yesterday morning too.

Infini · 16-11-2018 3:17pm

To be fair though at least they're pushing for something benefical. We have serious issues nowadays because drunken and violent feckers are allowed to do what they like. Doesnt help that the system keeps letting them off with at times ridiculous lenient sentences but I wouldnt be suprised if this is the next thing to change as people are fed up with this carryon.

Addle · 16-11-2018 3:20pm

Saw luas security attempt to break up a fight that wasn't happening at a luas stop during the week, though it was close.
What exactly is there remit?

ED E · 16-11-2018 5:28pm

Infini wrote: »

To be fair though at least they're pushing for something benefical. We have serious issues nowadays because drunken and violent feckers are allowed to do what they like. Doesnt help that the system keeps letting them off with at times ridiculous lenient sentences but I wouldnt be suprised if this is the next thing to change as people are fed up with this carryon.

More people to catch them doesnt solve that. No transport police: 400 convictions. Transport police: 500 convictions.

Either result is a total menace to society. Judicial system reform would arguably be money better spent.

BowSideChamp · 16-11-2018 9:36pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't buy this.. the problem with AGS is the culture in the force.

Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy.. I'm not going to even get into some of the behavior revealed in the whistleblower saga.

Unless that changes, it won't matter how many of them there are.

Seriously, why would you bother if you arrest someone with 100 previous convictions and a judge gives them another slap on the wrist. The justice system failures lie with the sentencing judges, not the Gardai.

Shn99 · 17-11-2018 6:48pm

Just got on the train and seen them, click the link to see them. had to use an image hoster because the phone isn’t letting me upload directly.
https://ibb.co/en7uUf

Stephen15 · 17-11-2018 7:08pm

JayRoc wrote: »

Saw a bunch of leaflets in the luggage rack of a Dublin Bus, calling for the introduction of a Transport Police. I could be wrong but the impression I got was that they were put there by the driver.

Not the first time the NBRU have done these leaflet drops they did it aswell during the last strike. Not sure they're being put there by drivers or are NBRU reps going around the depots placing leaflets on buses.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-11-2018 6:54am

Apparently they want the metro to be without barriers.

That would be a disaster the way things currently are. At the end of the day if personal security is not taken seriously in Dublin (and we know it isn't - there is not a garda to be seen and we don't have a justice system) then unfortunately there are things that we just can not have.

A barrier free underground metro is one of them.

So either they get to grips with security, tackle the drug and anti social behaviour situation in the city center and start handing down proper sentences or I personally would rather we went without certain public transport options.

20-11-2018 7:16am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Apparently they want the metro to be without barriers.

That would be a disaster the way things currently are. At the end of the day if personal security is not taken seriously in Dublin (and we know it isn't - there is not a garda to be seen and we don't have a justice system) then unfortunately there are things that we just can not have.

A barrier free underground metro is one of them.

So either they get to grips with security, tackle the drug and anti social behaviour situation in the city center and start handing down proper sentences or I personally would rather we went without certain public transport options.

Baby, bathwater

Logic, absent

Kermit.de.frog · 20-11-2018 7:27am

Perfectly logical. Ask anyone who endures the red line on a daily basis.

I repeat my point - we don't have proper policing nor justice system.

This is a societal choice and the consequences of that are there are things we should not have.

I don't like it but it's the way it is.

Tow · 20-11-2018 11:01am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Apparently they want the metro to be without barriers.

That would be a disaster the way things currently are. At the end of the day if personal security is not taken seriously in Dublin (and we know it isn't - there is not a garda to be seen and we don't have a justice system) then unfortunately there are things that we just can not have.

I agree 100% and the next time there is an election I will be asking the canvases why we don't have a proper jail system to punish (or rehabilitate) offenders in. I fully believe that finishing off Thornton Hall, and building other modern properly run jails will save the country money. The ratio of prisoners to prison officers in Ireland is out of alignment with other countries. Savings from modern facilities and less staff will largely cover the daily running costs. Selling the 'The Joy' and Dundrum to developers can pay for the new infrastructure. Savings from reduced crime levels are harder to quantify, needless to say the Garda, HSE and Local Authorities will see a direct saving. Joe Public will save on reduced crime/insurance costs. The only looses are those in the Security business, alarm companies and shop security etc.

bk · 21-11-2018 1:42pm

DART and commuter rail has gates, yet it has never stopped anti-social issues on DART and Rail, including the recent stabbing. And on a bus you have to pass the driver.

A little old gate doesn't stop anyone up to no good. Also a lot have free travel.

A Transport Police, plus changes in our justice system system are what will help.

dermo888 · 23-11-2018 11:33am

"Also a lot have free travel"

I know that and it galls me. Free Travel should be for pensioners who worked for it. Not lowlife skangers going to get de metadone.

Everytime we travel, we carry an umbrella. Just code yourself with a red armband, and get ready, because we the people can 'get' the skangers, using perfectly legal items. Such as umbrellas.

They don't belong on our transport system, our communities or our cities. The skangers must be ran out of the land.

Jamie2k9 · 03-12-2018 12:02pm

Journal report Ross has given IE 115,000 for security over Christmas.

105,000 for trains in GDA and 15,000 for depots.

whisky_galore · 06-06-2024 12:35pm

A thought came to me the other day.

If a transport worker was attacked and injured by a scumbag while on duty, could that worker sue the company for failing to protect them in the workplace?

mikeybhoy · 06-06-2024 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226242#Comment_122226242

Yes you can take a civil case for literally anything whether win or not is a different story.

The likes of DB have an assault pay scheme but is only paid out if the correct procedures are followed by the worker. For example you can't get it if a driver get's out of the cab and confronts a passenger or has the assault screen down and is attacked.

expectationlost · 08-06-2024 9:25pm

dart being delayed many times by trespassers on the line near Tara presumably jumping off bridge into water

also today.

https://twitter.com/sjanemurf/status/1799505224446427179

have to saw I see security on Dart about half the time Im on it.

Government considering dedicated Transport Police

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