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DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread
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Gotcha skyblue46. Looking at the HH Novice and Boards plans, that 45-50ish% rule holds true right up until the last couple of weeks anyway.
Thanks skyblue, you may not be a 2019 mentor, but you're one of the previous mentors who helped to inspire me to get up off my butt and do this, so you'll always be a mentor to me
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Hi all! Posted in the random question thread there but just seen the sticky for this.
Signed up to the half and full Dublin marathon this year, first time to do either of them distances.
I'm 28, currently running 2 to 4 times per week between 5 and 10km. Best 5km is 23.01 in the staff relay race 2018 (it's on again this Thursday can't wait!) and either 54 or 55 mins for 10km.
Also play football once a week and gym 2 to 3 times per week.
My goal for the half marathon is under 2.35 and I just want to finish the full. Going to check out the plans available on the first post and work up my milage from there. Looking forward to it
Hey rizzee and welcome to the thread
You've an exciting time planned with a first half and first full marathon. Your goal is definitely achievable for the half I would say, judging by the PBs, and probably well under!
I think I saw on the Random questions thread that you are going to follow the Boards plan? What would say your current mileage per week is roughly?
Great that you are sometimes running 4 times a week. I would suggest you try to get into that routine weekly before the plan starts in June.0 -
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Hi All. I took at a look at the plans and am thinking that I may have a go at the Boards plan (although will have to learn what strides are first!). I've been building my lsr up slowly every week following an injury where I built up too fast previously. I just hit 22k last weekend as the half marathon distance seemed an obvious target. Really enjoyed it and feel I could keep building distance but wondering if that is a bad idea? Any advice on whether I should cut, maintain or extend the lsr distance before the plans start in June would be really appreciated. Thanks.
Hey Sorbet, well done on working up to that distance.
No need to extend beyond that at all before the plan starts; the plan is structured to help you build at a sensible rate and help avoid any injuries (again, once the appropriate-to-you long slow run pace is heeded ). I'd keep it to between 8-10 miles for now until the plan starts. It's a decent distance but won't have you tiring yourself out too much before you get into marathon training properly, will help build a good base rather. 0 -
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Another method is the Maffetone Method but I don't know anything about that: https://philmaffetone.com/what-is-maf/
I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.
The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.
By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.
Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too
It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat!
Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.
Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it
I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!0 -
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Thanks Huzzah
At the moment I’m leaning towards the boards plan. It looks tougher but doable (for now). I’m injury-free and as long as I stay that way I’m gonna try push myself.
I haven’t really tried to run a fast 5k or 10k in a long time. Garmin tells me I’ve recorded a 5k of 26:11 and a 10k of 58:10 this month so I guess that’s my base.
I’m more than happy to slow it down but my form seems to go to pot. Don’t give a fiddlers about how slow I appear. Going out again this evening to try again. I’ll try a slower playlist to see if that helps. ��
If you can get to a parkrun before the plans start, that would be great. If not, try the talk test: if you can chat while you're running, it's probably slow enough. I even try to sing sometimes 0 -
I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.
The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.
By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.
Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too
It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat!
Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.
Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it
I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!
That's a really great post, DBB - thanks. It complements all the advice on running slowly, too. Interesting to me is that I do my recovery runs around where he prescribes. I'm not a huge fan of low carb for marathon training myself but to each their own.0 -
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If you can get to a parkrun before the plans start, that would be great. If not, try the talk test: if you can chat while you're running, it's probably slow enough. I even try to sing sometimes
I’ll do that for sure Huzzah. I have a barcode for parkrun (unused). Looks like it’s time to dust it off. The idea would be to go flat out?
On a positive note, managed to do some slow ks yesterday and surprised at how enjoyable it was. Could have stayed out much longer and body feels good today. I’m a lot less scared about going ‘long’ than I used to be. Times still all over the place but I’ll aim for consistency over the next few weeks.
On a separate note, I really need to get a handle on my nutrition. My diet is fairly described as poor. Not enough fruit/veg and way too many ‘treats’. Also a complete caffeine junkie. So if anyone here has come from a similar place and can recommend a good nutrition guide/book that’s helped them make incremental changes, I’d love to hear?0 -
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The problem I have with the Maff method is the numbers are applied to broadly. What if you have two athletes of the same age but one has a far higher Max HR than the other or a lower Max HR than 180 even. You could then have one athlete running far to hard even with the Maff method or even too slow.I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.
The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.
By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.
Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too
It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat!
Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.
Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it
I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!
I prefer the HRR method which sets your zones based off your Max Hr and your Resting HR.
Setting your zones that way is a better way of training if you are going to use HR Training.0 -
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Hey rizzee and welcome to the thread
You've an exciting time planned with a first half and first full marathon. Your goal is definitely achievable for the half I would say, judging by the PBs, and probably well under!
I think I saw on the Random questions thread that you are going to follow the Boards plan? What would say your current mileage per week is roughly?
Great that you are sometimes running 4 times a week. I would suggest you try to get into that routine weekly before the plan starts in June.
Thank you! It's not great to be honest. Only 20-30KMs but I obviously plan on upping that and following the beginners plan in the OP.
Thanks for the advice
Staff Relay Race today, I'm looking for a sub 25:30, did 23:01 last year but I had a little niggle in the ankle the weekend so haven't trained how I would have liked.0
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