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DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    kyomi wrote: »
    Thanks, Huzzah! Yes, I'll try and figure out a way of posting my plan (maybe in summary as it's a large Excel file).

    I've found this thread really interesting so far and I'm intrigued to see other people are running by heart rate. This is something I've started to do over the last three weeks so I don't really have any idea yet whether it's working or not. I calculated a training heart rate of 134-144 based on the max heart rate from my Garmin and I'm trying to do my easy runs at a pace that allows me to stay below that. Some of the information online says that you should do all your runs at this pace, while others allow you to fit in faster sessions on some days. Can others share any websites about heart rate training that they found useful?

    I think you need to get your true max for it to be useful; one way of doing so is to race a 5k flat out. I don't train exclusively by HR but use it as a guide. I think the HADD method is as you state above: doing all your runs at a pace that allows you stay below a certain HR but only in the base building phase: https://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf Another method is the Maffetone Method but I don't know anything about that: https://philmaffetone.com/what-is-maf/ Maybe something for after marathon training is done?
    kyomi wrote: »
    I do find that when I do my long runs at a super-slow pace (3 mins/mile slower than my 5K pace) I feel less exhausted and more functional for the remainder of the day. If this keeps up it will make marathon training a lot easier (although a lot more lonely, as most of my running pals run a lot faster than I do!).
    Running is really a solitary sport but I think running long runs alone, even the odd time, is something that will stand to you. We need to train our mental resilience as much as anything.
    kyomi wrote: »
    When it comes to long runs, though, I feel like there must be a point at which the additional time on your feet due to running at such a slow pace must cancel out any energy benefits from keeping your heart rate low?

    Certainly, there is a point where additional time on your feet will increase the risk of injury but I don't think increasing your pace to get them done more quickly is the answer. Keep them slow and hopefully the risk of injury will stay low.

    If you upload your plan to Google Sheets/docs, make sure it's on public and share the link here, that should work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    Hi All

    Posting here in the hope that I can secure an entry in July (I'll have my finger on the trigger as soon as the entries are released. I have signed up to the HM in September to keep me on track.

    Been running on and off for years: ran quite a lot in my thirties but it all went by the wayside when I went to uni in 2013. Running has been sporadic since then but I have stepped it up lately.

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    5k 24:24 all the way back in 2011
    10k 51:xx in 2012

    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

    No

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
    Currently running around 30k a week over roughly 4 runs. Last week I recorded over 32k on Strava but I generally jog a few more that I don't record because I think they're too slow. (I realise that I need to change that mindset after reading about the importance of taking it easy)
    I do kettlebells workouts a couple of times also.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

    Dream finishing time would be under 4 hours but that might be a pipe dream. I'd be happy to come home under 4:30

    How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
    I'm fortunate that I can devote 4 or 5 days to running. I have not fully decided on a plan yet, going to spend some time considering them in the next few days.

    What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
    Like many of you, picking up an injury along the way and having to bow out. at 41, Im starting to feel small niggles that I had not previously suffered.

    Why are you running this marathon?
    In general, I prefer shorter distances but I feel that the marathon is an itch I need to scratch at least once.

    Looking forward to getting started properly and joining you all on the journey. I appreciate the effort that the mentors put in and I'll be heeding the advice you guys give.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    veronymus wrote: »
    Hi All

    Posting here in the hope that I can secure an entry in July (I'll have my finger on the trigger as soon as the entries are released. I have signed up to the HM in September to keep me on track.

    Been running on and off for years: ran quite a lot in my thirties but it all went by the wayside when I went to uni in 2013. Running has been sporadic since then but I have stepped it up lately.

    Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
    5k 24:24 all the way back in 2011
    10k 51:xx in 2012

    Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

    No

    How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
    Currently running around 30k a week over roughly 4 runs. Last week I recorded over 32k on Strava but I generally jog a few more that I don't record because I think they're too slow. (I realise that I need to change that mindset after reading about the importance of taking it easy)
    I do kettlebells workouts a couple of times also.

    What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

    Dream finishing time would be under 4 hours but that might be a pipe dream. I'd be happy to come home under 4:30

    How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
    I'm fortunate that I can devote 4 or 5 days to running. I have not fully decided on a plan yet, going to spend some time considering them in the next few days.

    What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?
    Like many of you, picking up an injury along the way and having to bow out. at 41, Im starting to feel small niggles that I had not previously suffered.

    Why are you running this marathon?
    In general, I prefer shorter distances but I feel that the marathon is an itch I need to scratch at least once.

    Looking forward to getting started properly and joining you all on the journey. I appreciate the effort that the mentors put in and I'll be heeding the advice you guys give.

    Welcome, veronymus. Let us know what you think of the plans when you've had a look and, yes, don't be worried about how "slow" your runs are. If that was an issue, I'd have given up Strava long ago.

    Do you have more recent PBs? No worries if not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Welcome, veronymus. Let us know what you think of the plans when you've had a look and, yes, don't be worried about how "slow" your runs are. If that was an issue, I'd have given up Strava long ago.

    Do you have more recent PBs? No worries if not.

    Thanks Huzzah

    At the moment I’m leaning towards the boards plan. It looks tougher but doable (for now). I’m injury-free and as long as I stay that way I’m gonna try push myself.

    I haven’t really tried to run a fast 5k or 10k in a long time. Garmin tells me I’ve recorded a 5k of 26:11 and a 10k of 58:10 this month so I guess that’s my base.

    I’m more than happy to slow it down but my form seems to go to pot. Don’t give a fiddlers about how slow I appear. Going out again this evening to try again. I’ll try a slower playlist to see if that helps. 🀞


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭rizzee


    Hi all! Posted in the random question thread there but just seen the sticky for this.

    Signed up to the half and full Dublin marathon this year, first time to do either of them distances.


    I'm 28, currently running 2 to 4 times per week between 5 and 10km. Best 5km is 23.01 in the staff relay race 2018 (it's on again this Thursday can't wait!) and either 54 or 55 mins for 10km.
    Also play football once a week and gym 2 to 3 times per week.


    My goal for the half marathon is under 2.35 and I just want to finish the full. Going to check out the plans available on the first post and work up my milage from there. Looking forward to it :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Congratulations to Passinginterest and Laineyfrecks for 2 super PBs in Tallaght today. They're great morale boosters at the fast stuff before ye start learning to run slow :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭passinginterest


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Congratulations to Passinginterest and Laineyfrecks for 2 super PBs in Tallaght today. They're great morale boosters at the fast stuff before ye start learning to run slow :D

    Thanks. It’s a ‘new era’ pb for me rather than an actual pb (20.18 back in 2014). Considering I struggled to break 30 back in October delighted to see 21.58 on the clock today. Great set up in Tallaght today and a net downhill course with the finish on the track.


  • Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭Lombardo123


    Had a good week with 38k in the bag split over 4 runs.

    My problem is I'm away Friday Saturday and Sunday and have no option to run (I really don't) next week

    How would you structure next week?

    I'm coming off a 9 mile run this morning but feeling good. Planning recovery tomorrow, nothing crazy. But what way should I split the next three days?

    As per plan or ensure I get a longer run in Thursday before leaving? What would be of more value?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Can I ask our knowledgeable mentors... I see reference to the weekly LSR not being any longer than a percentage of the shorter midweek runs.
    What is that percentage, and why?!

    I ran 10 miles yesterday! Finally into double figures in miles, and the furthest I've ever run!
    I think I've a bit of a tummy bug at the min, as all my runs in the past week brought on tummy cramps, which I had conquered in the preceeding months by running on an empty tum in the mornings. Nothing changed about my training this week... So I'm hoping it's a low-lying bug :o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    DBB wrote: »
    Can I ask our knowledgeable mentors... I see reference to the weekly LSR not being any longer than a percentage of the shorter midweek runs.
    What is that percentage, and why?!

    I ran 10 miles yesterday! Finally into double figures in miles, and the furthest I've ever run!
    I think I've a bit of a tummy bug at the min, as all my runs in the past week brought on tummy cramps, which I had conquered in the preceeding months by running on an empty tum in the mornings. Nothing changed about my training this week... So I'm hoping it's a low-lying bug :o

    I'm not one of your knowledgeable mentors but I will chime in. The percentage varies according to coaches. As a general rule your weekend miles should not be any more than 45-50% of your weekly mileage. The simple reason is that training should be balanced. You should have a base that enables you to do the LSR in comfort. Consistency is king. 3 days of 5 miles on weekdays followed by 5 on Saturday and 10 on Sunday is a hell of a lot better than two days of 8 and one of 15 on a Sunday. It's about letting your body adapt to the mileage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Had a good week with 38k in the bag split over 4 runs.

    My problem is I'm away Friday Saturday and Sunday and have no option to run (I really don't) next week

    How would you structure next week?

    I'm coming off a 9 mile run this morning but feeling good. Planning recovery tomorrow, nothing crazy. But what way should I split the next three days?

    As per plan or ensure I get a longer run in Thursday before leaving? What would be of more value?

    I'm in a similar boat, being away next weekend. I plan to do my longest run on the Friday - the weekend can be my rest days.

    I would recommend to do your long run on Thursday but make sure to take your rest days during the week too - don't try to fit all your runs into the 4 days.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Gotcha skyblue46. Looking at the HH Novice and Boards plans, that 45-50ish% rule holds true right up until the last couple of weeks anyway.
    Thanks skyblue, you may not be a 2019 mentor, but you're one of the previous mentors who helped to inspire me to get up off my butt and do this, so you'll always be a mentor to me :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    rizzee wrote: »
    Hi all! Posted in the random question thread there but just seen the sticky for this.

    Signed up to the half and full Dublin marathon this year, first time to do either of them distances.


    I'm 28, currently running 2 to 4 times per week between 5 and 10km. Best 5km is 23.01 in the staff relay race 2018 (it's on again this Thursday can't wait!) and either 54 or 55 mins for 10km.
    Also play football once a week and gym 2 to 3 times per week.


    My goal for the half marathon is under 2.35 and I just want to finish the full. Going to check out the plans available on the first post and work up my milage from there. Looking forward to it :)




    Hey rizzee and welcome to the thread :)
    You've an exciting time planned with a first half and first full marathon. Your goal is definitely achievable for the half I would say, judging by the PBs, and probably well under!



    I think I saw on the Random questions thread that you are going to follow the Boards plan? What would say your current mileage per week is roughly?

    Great that you are sometimes running 4 times a week. I would suggest you try to get into that routine weekly before the plan starts in June.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Sorbet


    Hi All. I took at a look at the plans and am thinking that I may have a go at the Boards plan (although will have to learn what strides are first!). I've been building my lsr up slowly every week following an injury where I built up too fast previously. I just hit 22k last weekend as the half marathon distance seemed an obvious target. Really enjoyed it and feel I could keep building distance but wondering if that is a bad idea? Any advice on whether I should cut, maintain or extend the lsr distance before the plans start in June would be really appreciated. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    Had a good week with 38k in the bag split over 4 runs.

    My problem is I'm away Friday Saturday and Sunday and have no option to run (I really don't) next week

    How would you structure next week?

    I'm coming off a 9 mile run this morning but feeling good. Planning recovery tomorrow, nothing crazy. But what way should I split the next three days?

    As per plan or ensure I get a longer run in Thursday before leaving? What would be of more value?


    Nice week, well done.


    Recovery tomorrow is good, wouldn't really do more than 20-30 mins very gentle?


    To be honest, I wouldn't worry too much about the long run if it were me this week. You're not into the plan yet and you got one done today at least. Maybe add an extra 10 minutes to what you had planned for Thursday, assuming you will still do the speed session on Weds? And I assume another easy run on Tuesday.



    I would think that will carry you over ok to getting back to normal from next week then.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I'm not one of your knowledgeable mentors but I will chime in.


    Always delighted when you chime in :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    Sorbet wrote: »
    Hi All. I took at a look at the plans and am thinking that I may have a go at the Boards plan (although will have to learn what strides are first!). I've been building my lsr up slowly every week following an injury where I built up too fast previously. I just hit 22k last weekend as the half marathon distance seemed an obvious target. Really enjoyed it and feel I could keep building distance but wondering if that is a bad idea? Any advice on whether I should cut, maintain or extend the lsr distance before the plans start in June would be really appreciated. Thanks.


    Hey Sorbet, well done on working up to that distance.
    No need to extend beyond that at all before the plan starts; the plan is structured to help you build at a sensible rate and help avoid any injuries (again, once the appropriate-to-you long slow run pace is heeded :) ). I'd keep it to between 8-10 miles for now until the plan starts. It's a decent distance but won't have you tiring yourself out too much before you get into marathon training properly, will help build a good base rather.


  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭passinginterest


    Race report from today for anyone interested.
    Tallaght 5k - Chip Time 21.58. Garmin: 3.1m@7.05/m (21.59) AvgHR 174
    Couldn’t have been any more local for me. It’s an 8 minute walk from my house to the clubhouse. Strolled up to get the number about 10.15. Wandered home, no need to drop a bag, attached the number and back out for a warm up about 10.35. 1.12miles with a few strides and dynamic stretches @9.52/m. At the start with about 10 minutes to spare. Bumped into a few people I knew. Quick chats and try to figure out where to position myself for the start. Lots of club vests around, position myself maybe 10 rows back, well away from the speedsters! Obviously had a pretty good idea of the route, although I’d never run through the college campus. Airton road is a bit of a drag and with a 2 lap race it was going to be crucial to pace it right. Didn’t want to be too much of a slave to the watch, debated not having the pace visible and just running by feel but I bottled it.
    Start was pretty much bang on time and fairly hectic. Passing a good few people but trying not to get too carried away. Looked at the watch before the turn into Airton Road and pace was low enough 7s. Goal had been between 7.20 and 7.24/m so it was a bit fast. Settled into a rhythm along the Airton Road and was picking up places. Feeling it but also feeling pretty good when when we turned down the Belgard Rd. I knew the downhill was coming one we turned into the college again. Guy in an orange vest with a very distinctive bandanna passed me just before the roundabout turning in, mile beeped around here too and it was 7.16. Felt good and as soon as I hit the downhill the turnover picked up, I passed bandanna man again and was feeling good, think I saw 6 something pace at this stage and was a bit worried, but decided to just keep attacking it.

    Back out of the colleges and into lap two. Found myself a bit isolated around the astropark and wasn’t sure what to do, didn’t want to use too much energy trying to close those in front. Then bandanna man appeared again and as he eased past I decided I’d try and latch on. This was a big help and I followed his heels for the whole Airton Road. Gap quickly closed on those ahead and recognized a couple of the Tallaght runners we passed from the nights I’d gone training up there during the open week. That gave me another boost and the fact the pace was still looking no worse than 7.20 along the drag, I knew I was well on track to hit my sub 23 target. The second mile buzzed before the end of the Airton Road and it was 7.06. Was getting really worried now but knew that even if I was tying up the majority of the last mile and a bit was downhill.

    Heading back into the college I pushed past my bandanna toting rival and picked of another 2 or 3 runners before we exited and crossed the road to turn into the club and run the last 300 meters or so on the track. I was wrecked at this stage and knew I wasn’t going to be able to kick on the track. I could hear steps coming up on me and I left a gap in the inside lane for bandanna to pass me again. Another runner also came by on the outside, but I really didn’t have anything left to pick up the pace more. Mile three buzzed on the top of the bend, 6.58, not surprised I didn’t have much of a kick. Into the straight and someone coming behind was getting great support. That encouraged me to pick it up a little, as did spotting the fact the clock was still in the 21’s. Held it together to the finish, held my place, and stopped the watch at 21.59. 6.10 pace for the final 100 yards. The strava upload gave me 22.00 but was delighted to see the chip time give me 21.58. Exceeded expectations again. I was properly gasping at the finish, definitely didn’t leave much out there. A minute faster than I expected so all around delighted.

    Lovely spread in the clubhouse after. Scoffed a banana and an egg sandwich, had a chat with bandanna man and thanked him for dragging me around, before jogging a slightly extended route home to cool down 0.54m@11.27.


  • Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Treviso


    Sorbet wrote: »
    Hi All. I took at a look at the plans and am thinking that I may have a go at the Boards plan (although will have to learn what strides are first!). I've been building my lsr up slowly every week following an injury where I built up too fast previously. I just hit 22k last weekend as the half marathon distance seemed an obvious target. Really enjoyed it and feel I could keep building distance but wondering if that is a bad idea? Any advice on whether I should cut, maintain or extend the lsr distance before the plans start in June would be really appreciated. Thanks.

    Apart from the 22k, what other runs did you do during the week? I would suggest not increasing the lsr mileage but try building the mileage/days running during the week to where the boards plan starts off on week 1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 194 ✭✭Sorbet


    Treviso wrote: »
    Apart from the 22k, what other runs did you do during the week? I would suggest not increasing the lsr mileage but try building the mileage/days running during the week to where the boards plan starts off on week 1

    Thanks - I'm actually doing three runs of 7k at lunchtime during the week which is working well - so sounds like based on yours and ReeReeG's advice I should just scale back the lsr to 16k and keep at a total of about 35-40k per week until the plan starts?

    Apologies if these are really basic questions but as my immediate goal was to build to HM just a bit rudderless now! Maybe I should start to introduce strides or hills (was going to wait until the plan starts)?


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Another method is the Maffetone Method but I don't know anything about that: https://philmaffetone.com/what-is-maf/

    I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.

    The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.

    By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.

    Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too :o

    It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat! :D

    Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.

    Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it :D

    I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Race report from today for anyone interested.

    Wow, really well done! What I wouldn't give to get close to that time!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    veronymus wrote: »
    Thanks Huzzah

    At the moment I’m leaning towards the boards plan. It looks tougher but doable (for now). I’m injury-free and as long as I stay that way I’m gonna try push myself.

    I haven’t really tried to run a fast 5k or 10k in a long time. Garmin tells me I’ve recorded a 5k of 26:11 and a 10k of 58:10 this month so I guess that’s my base.

    I’m more than happy to slow it down but my form seems to go to pot. Don’t give a fiddlers about how slow I appear. Going out again this evening to try again. I’ll try a slower playlist to see if that helps. ��

    If you can get to a parkrun before the plans start, that would be great. If not, try the talk test: if you can chat while you're running, it's probably slow enough. I even try to sing sometimes :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    DBB wrote: »
    I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.

    The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.

    By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.

    Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too :o

    It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat! :D

    Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.

    Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it :D

    I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!

    That's a really great post, DBB - thanks. It complements all the advice on running slowly, too. Interesting to me is that I do my recovery runs around where he prescribes. I'm not a huge fan of low carb for marathon training myself but to each their own.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    Thanks. It’s a ‘new era’ pb for me rather than an actual pb (20.18 back in 2014). Considering I struggled to break 30 back in October delighted to see 21.58 on the clock today. Great set up in Tallaght today and a net downhill course with the finish on the track.

    Brilliant running! Congrats to you and Laineyfrecks. Some excellent runners on here. I couldn’t manage anything remotely close to the times some of you are putting in but I’ll be watching how people are approaching the training in the hope that I can learn and improve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    If you can get to a parkrun before the plans start, that would be great. If not, try the talk test: if you can chat while you're running, it's probably slow enough. I even try to sing sometimes :o

    I’ll do that for sure Huzzah. I have a barcode for parkrun (unused). Looks like it’s time to dust it off. The idea would be to go flat out?

    On a positive note, managed to do some slow ks yesterday and surprised at how enjoyable it was. Could have stayed out much longer and body feels good today. I’m a lot less scared about going ‘long’ than I used to be. Times still all over the place but I’ll aim for consistency over the next few weeks.

    On a separate note, I really need to get a handle on my nutrition. My diet is fairly described as poor. Not enough fruit/veg and way too many ‘treats’. Also a complete caffeine junkie. So if anyone here has come from a similar place and can recommend a good nutrition guide/book that’s helped them make incremental changes, I’d love to hear?


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭Wombled


    Thats a great read, bringing me back to my biology days , some of which I can remember˜‚ I am back in action again and so looking forward to these slow runs, great board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    veronymus wrote: »
    I’ll do that for sure Huzzah. I have a barcode for parkrun (unused). Looks like it’s time to dust it off. The idea would be to go flat out?

    Oh, you are in for a treat if you haven't done parkrun before. Yes, I think if you're comfortable doing so, no harm in giving it a big effort.

    veronymus wrote: »
    On a separate note, I really need to get a handle on my nutrition. My diet is fairly described as poor. Not enough fruit/veg and way too many ‘treats’. Also a complete caffeine junkie. So if anyone here has come from a similar place and can recommend a good nutrition guide/book that’s helped them make incremental changes, I’d love to hear?

    Probably something we all could do with improving upon, although you'll prise my caffeine out of my cold, dead hands. If anyone has any recommendations for books, that would be appreciated.

    I attended a nutrition seminar last week and the nutritionist recommended that half of the plate at mealtimes should be veggie/fruits, so that's my first incremental goal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    veronymus wrote: »

    On a separate note, I really need to get a handle on my nutrition. My diet is fairly described as poor. Not enough fruit/veg and way too many ‘treats’. Also a complete caffeine junkie. So if anyone here has come from a similar place and can recommend a good nutrition guide/book that’s helped them make incremental changes, I’d love to hear?
    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Probably something we all could do with improving upon, although you'll prise my caffeine out of my cold, dead hands. If anyone has any recommendations for books, that would be appreciated.

    I think that there is plenty of info to be gathered online regarding nutrition. Most of it we already know but willingly choose to ignore :pac: Eat plenty of fruit and veg, cut out as much processed food as possible, reduce sweet tweets, don't eat between meals and don't eat too late at night. Unfortunately all this leads us to expect to have a very dull diet which isn't the case at all.

    If I was to make any suggestion it would be to pick up any of Derval O Rourkes books or David Gillick's Gillicks Kitchen. Both have lots of really tasty and healthy recipes, well worth a try.


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    Oh, you are in for a treat if you haven't done parkrun before. Yes, I think if you're comfortable doing so, no harm in giving it a big effort.




    Probably something we all could do with improving upon, although you'll prise my caffeine out of my cold, dead hands. If anyone has any recommendations for books, that would be appreciated.

    I attended a nutrition seminar last week and the nutritionist recommended that half of the plate at mealtimes should be veggie/fruits, so that's my first incremental goal.

    Haha, another one. I swear if you cut me I’d bleed coffee.

    That’s it so, I’m off to parkrun on Saturday. Sorry now that I didn’t try before. Hopefully I don’t make a show of myself.

    Heading out soon for a very short, very very slow run where I will attempt some singing a la Huzzah 😂


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  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭veronymus


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    I think that there is plenty of info to be gathered online regarding nutrition. Most of it we already know but willingly choose to ignore :pac: Eat plenty of fruit and veg, cut out as much processed food as possible, reduce sweet tweets, don't eat between meals and don't eat too late at night. Unfortunately all this leads us to expect to have a very dull diet which isn't the case at all.

    If I was to make any suggestion it would be to pick up any of Derval O Rourkes books or David Gillick's Gillicks Kitchen. Both have lots of really tasty and healthy recipes, well worth a try.

    Thanks skyblue. As you say, it’s all quite obvious. My problem is that I often attempt to change my diet but I’m an all or nothing kind of person when it comes to food. The end result — return to my bad habits. I’m going to try alter things gradually for once.

    Thanks for your suggestions. I’ll have a look for Derval’s book. It’s funny you mention David Gillick as my boyfriend won a book of his in a raffle recently ‘Back on Track’. I’ve just snaffled it 🀫


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Those who currently do football might have to give it a miss during DCM training. There was a guy last year or 2017 I think who broke a bone. He still completed DCM, but given the nature of the sport it up likely ups your risky of injury.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    veronymus wrote: »

    On a separate note, I really need to get a handle on my nutrition. My diet is fairly described as poor. Not enough fruit/veg and way too many ‘treats’. Also a complete caffeine junkie. So if anyone here has come from a similar place and can recommend a good nutrition guide/book that’s helped them make incremental changes, I’d love to hear?

    I second Derval O’Rourke’s books. I love them and it’s all healthy wholesome food. Her website is quite good though it’s subscription.

    I’d say, plan your meals weekly, include plenty of variety to get all the nutrients. Include all the food groups. In an ideal world go through her books and choose breakfasts, lunches and dinners and 2 snacks daily. Do plenty batch cooking and use your freezer. Plan for before and after long runs. Running makes you hungry so have something ready to eat with you as opposed to grabbing something unhealthy in a shop on the way home.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Casey78


    DBB wrote: »
    I meant to pick up on your post t'other night Huzzah!, as it's the Phil Maffetone method I'm working on since last February. I thought I might post a bit on my (probably very simplistic) understanding of it all so far.

    The underlying premise is that we humans are designed to run steady for miles and miles. However, in our modern world where we train to run rather than head off across the savannahs to bag ourselves a wildebeest, we're inclined to try to go too fast, which pushes our bodies into anaerobic respiration, burning up our limited and finite reserves of sugars/carbs to the point of early exhaustion, causing a build up of lactic acid, soreness, tiredness, and injury.

    By keeping it slow when training for endurance events, we keep our bodies respiring aerobically, and we "teach" our metabolism to fuel itself largely from our much bigger body fat reserves, which keeps us going for much, much longer than our sugar reserves do. It also means we don't have a big build up of lactic acid, soreness, reduced chance of injury etc.

    Maffetone's plan means keeping your heart rate low for all training runs, because if you ramp it up, you're knocking yourself into anaerobic respiration: the guideline is 180bpm minus your age in years. Yep, that seemed terribly low to me too :o

    It all means, for beginners at least, that you may have to stop running and just walk for stretches, to keep yourself below your maximum heart rate. However, over time (and I've read that this is usually 3-6 months into training by HR), you should find that you're knocking time off your average mins per mile, and you're able to run up that hill without having to walk. In other words, the speed starts to come naturally as you can run faster whilst remaining under your max HR, and all the while you're keeping the metabolism aerobic, you're not exhausting yourself, and (yippee!) you're burning up your body fat! :D

    Maffetone does hillwork in reverse, to allow you to get some speed in. You've got to find a very gradual, long downhill to run down: because you're gently descending, you can run faster than normal whilst keeping the HR down. I then trot back up the hill on my "speedwork" (I'm not very speedy even running downhill :pac:) sessions, then off I go downhill again. Maffetone is also a major advocate of strength and conditioning work between runs.

    Diet-wise, he advises reducing the sugars and carbs as much as possible, and to get "good fats" into you... eg nuts, avocados, fish oils, even butter! However, for me, life is too damn short to not enjoy a slice of cake, so feck that... just don't overdo it :D

    I've little doubt some of the finer points have gone over my head, and I'm interested to see what others think of this approach!
    The problem I have with the Maff method is the numbers are applied to broadly. What if you have two athletes of the same age but one has a far higher Max HR than the other or a lower Max HR than 180 even. You could then have one athlete running far to hard even with the Maff method or even too slow.
    I prefer the HRR method which sets your zones based off your Max Hr and your Resting HR.
    Setting your zones that way is a better way of training if you are going to use HR Training.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Soulsun


    Is there a link to the boards plan and do you suggest recording data in KM or miles?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Huzzah!


    Soulsun wrote: »
    Is there a link to the boards plan and do you suggest recording data in KM or miles?

    The plans are in the opening post. The plans are in miles, so it might be easier to use miles but it doesn't matter what you use for recording information.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Soulsun


    Huzzah! wrote: »
    The plans are in the opening post. The plans are in miles, so it might be easier to use miles but it doesn't matter what you use for recording information.

    Thanks Huzzah
    Excuse my ignorance!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Paperstraw


    Hi all, headed about this thread from my sister who did dcm last year so went looking for it for myself and my first dcm this year. Looking forward to getting loads of tips!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Ballybog


    Dipping my toe into this post. I missed out on the DCM tickets, but will be on standby as soon as the second wave is release to try ans secure one.

    I am a novice runner, started with local parkruns last summer and gently built up my fitness levels.

    Looking to get into a formal plan, even if I don't get an entry into the DCM, might look at alternative marathons later on in the year.

    Current PB's:
    5km 28min
    10km 58min
    Wicklow half 2h 17min

    Looking forward to hearing all the advice here !


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭rizzee


    ReeReeG wrote: »
    Hey rizzee and welcome to the thread :)
    You've an exciting time planned with a first half and first full marathon. Your goal is definitely achievable for the half I would say, judging by the PBs, and probably well under!



    I think I saw on the Random questions thread that you are going to follow the Boards plan? What would say your current mileage per week is roughly?

    Great that you are sometimes running 4 times a week. I would suggest you try to get into that routine weekly before the plan starts in June.


    Thank you! It's not great to be honest. Only 20-30KMs but I obviously plan on upping that and following the beginners plan in the OP.

    Thanks for the advice :)

    Staff Relay Race today, I'm looking for a sub 25:30, did 23:01 last year but I had a little niggle in the ankle the weekend so haven't trained how I would have liked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭passinginterest


    rizzee wrote: »
    Thank you! It's not great to be honest. Only 20-30KMs but I obviously plan on upping that and following the beginners plan in the OP.

    Thanks for the advice :)

    Staff Relay Race today, I'm looking for a sub 25:30, did 23:01 last year but I had a little niggle in the ankle the weekend so haven't trained how I would have liked.

    Did the staff relay last night. It’s a tough course with a big downhill in the first mile, fairly sharp climb in the second and then a lot of grass for the third. I had planned to run it fairly steady but got a bit caught up in the buzz and not wanting to be slowest in the team so ended up running it pretty close to max effort. Was delighted to get around in 22.36.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭rizzee


    Did the staff relay last night. It’s a tough course with a big downhill in the first mile, fairly sharp climb in the second and then a lot of grass for the third. I had planned to run it fairly steady but got a bit caught up in the buzz and not wanting to be slowest in the team so ended up running it pretty close to max effort. Was delighted to get around in 22.36.


    Well done!! I surprised myself and did 22.49 (pb!!) . I was the first one out (A), and was very comfortable in the run. Perfect weather for it, nice and cool


  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Prospector1989


    Did the staff relay last night. It’s a tough course with a big downhill in the first mile, fairly sharp climb in the second and then a lot of grass for the third. I had planned to run it fairly steady but got a bit caught up in the buzz and not wanting to be slowest in the team so ended up running it pretty close to max effort. Was delighted to get around in 22.36.

    Did the relay tonight myself. Was the last leg on the team. Lots of waiting around. Very decent crowds.
    Think the team time came in at 2:32:xx, was a nice evening out was great to see people of all abilities taking part. May have turned one or two of them into runners!

    Personal target was sub 24:30.
    Went out hard down the hill and managed to maintain a decent pace up the hills. Happy with my own time of 24:01 on a difficult course!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭ReeReeG


    Ballybog wrote: »
    Dipping my toe into this post. I missed out on the DCM tickets, but will be on standby as soon as the second wave is release to try ans secure one.

    I am a novice runner, started with local parkruns last summer and gently built up my fitness levels.

    Looking to get into a formal plan, even if I don't get an entry into the DCM, might look at alternative marathons later on in the year.

    Current PB's:
    5km 28min
    10km 58min
    Wicklow half 2h 17min

    Looking forward to hearing all the advice here !


    Hey Ballybog. Hope you get an entry when it reopens!


    Have you looked at the plans in the opening post? What sort of mileage are you typically doing in a week at the moment?
    Was that Wicklow half time from this year?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    An ultrasound tomorrow will hopefully confirm for sure, but it looks like I have a hernia. Swelling began on Thurs. Went to A&E last night. I'm not looking for medical advice, I will get that tomorrow from my doc, but just in a bit of a mood about it at the moment. My training has been very good and very consistent.

    Just wondering if anyone knows how much of an issue this is likely to be? I've private health insurance so would be hoping to have what needs to be done ASAP. I know I haven't yet been diagnosed and that everyone is different, but am expecting to be waiting 6weeks until I can return to training. Say 7 when you factor in getting the diagnosis and the procedure if needed.

    Boards plan starts in 5weeks if I've done my maths right.

    Am I screwed or am I lucky that it has happened now rather than later?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    An ultrasound tomorrow will hopefully confirm for sure, but it looks like I have a hernia. Swelling began on Thurs. Went to A&E last night. I'm not looking for medical advice, I will get that tomorrow from my doc, but just in a bit of a mood about it at the moment. My training has been very good and very consistent.

    Just wondering if anyone knows how much of an issue this is likely to be? I've private health insurance so would be hoping to have what needs to be done ASAP. I know I haven't yet been diagnosed and that everyone is different, but am expecting to be waiting 6weeks until I can return to training. Say 7 when you factor in getting the diagnosis and the procedure if needed.

    Boards plan starts in 5weeks if I've done my maths right.

    Am I screwed or am I lucky that it has happened now rather than later?

    First off, I'm really gutted to hear about this setback, and fingers crossed that tomorrow delivers better news than you expect. The good news is that you've a really great base built up which will stand to you, whenever you get the all clear.

    The plans actually start in 4 weeks, and coming back from a 7 week layoff into week 4, I'd be wary of doing too much too soon, ideally you'd spend a few weeks gradually and cautiously building the mileage back up. I'd always lean towards the sensible, conservative option, but let's see how tomorrow goes first?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    Mr. Guappa wrote: »
    First off, I'm really gutted to hear about this setback, and fingers crossed that tomorrow delivers better news than you expect. The good news is that you've a really great base built up which will stand to you, whenever you get the all clear.

    The plans actually start in 4 weeks, and coming back from a 7 week layoff into week 4, I'd be wary of doing too much too soon, ideally you'd spend a few weeks gradually and cautiously building the mileage back up. I'd always lean towards the sensible, conservative option, but let's see how tomorrow goes first?

    Oh no, 4 weeks! Okay, yes, lets see what happens tomorrow first. I'm totally fine with gradual buildup - will be just delighted to get back into it.

    It was the gym that did it. Not the running. I've been very good with my running, taking it very slow. But it looks like 5days running and 3days gym has finally taken its toll. Lifting weights that were obviously too heavy for me. LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE PEOPLE!!

    We will see what tomorrow brings. My plan was in 2 weeks time to drop back from 3gym to 1gym per week. Why oh Why didn't I do this earlier?

    Thanks Mr Guappa. Will let you know how it goes tomorrow. Fingers crossed for good news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,765 ✭✭✭Mr. Guappa


    So, just 4 weeks now to go until the plans kick off, and only 22 weeks to go until DCM! It will come around a lot quicker than you'd think. If you haven't done so already, use the next 4 weeks to gradually build your mileage, get accustomed to running at least 4 days a week, and most importantly, getting used to slowing it down!

    As you may have seen on Strava, I was away last week so it's great to see a few more recruits have joined the party in that time. Speaking of Strava, I'll plug our group again: https://www.strava.com/clubs/523351. Just remember to pop myself, ReeReeG or Huzzah! a PM with your Strava name.

    I'd also like to note that if you've signed up for DCM but for some reason can't now take part, that you can avail of a refund between the 3rd-16th June. Do ask our opinion though if it's a confidence or fear thing, we'll give you honest feedback. The additional entries will go on sale at 9am on the 1st July, so mark that date in your diary if you're waiting to claim an entry!

    I've noted some great racing over the past week or two as well, please keep us updated on any upcoming races you have pencilled in. If you haven't done many races before, they are a great test run for the big day, and we definitely recommend getting in a couple during the training block.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,772 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Aw bananaleaf :o
    That is crap news. But hopefully things won't look as bad once you've got your diagnosis... I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's keeping everything crossed for you :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,407 ✭✭✭positron


    Wow this thread is already 250 posts long and I never said hello. well.. Hello.

    I am a DCM graduate from 2017 batch (Wubbles wonders), really looking forward to reading updates here, reports on the trials and tribulations of putting your body and mind thru the training plan, the excitement and the reports after the d-day. All the very best wishes to Mr. Guappas' 2019 batch, you are all in for such a treat, the very first marathon journey is just so special.

    I have signed for 2019 although I have been running a lot less this year than I have in the last two years. Yet to pick a plan but I have never been too successful in sticking to plan really close. I will follow the boards plan in general, building up distances with everyone in this thread. It's going to be great... going to be the best DCM to date.. :D


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