Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

Justinwick · 17-11-2020 12:32am #1

I have a classic car i am buying in December. I won’t get to import it until mid January.

I’m afraid that given uk will be outside the eu I could be hit with additional tax and custom duty.

Does anyone know the state of play here? Right now it is €50 tax as it’s a classic car.

Could I just show evidence of buying it in December or is it the date you actually take it into
Ireland?

Really don’t want to be crippled with extra fees

mikehn · 17-11-2020 2:28am

Its the date you present it for assessment that they work off, you will be penalized if there is an undue delay in presenting but if its vintage it will be minimal.

Justinwick · 17-11-2020 7:39am

mikehn wrote: »

Its the date you present it for assessment that they work off, you will be penalized if there is an undue delay in presenting but if its vintage it will be minimal.

Thanks. Do you think presenting it in January, after the end of the brexit transition period will result in it treated as coming from outside the eu and result in the higher custom duty and vat? Looks like it

Isambard · 17-11-2020 10:20am

the VRT currently is €200 on a 30+ yr old car.

what you pay after Jan 1st will depend on what deal is done. If there is no deal, you'll be liable for import duty plus VAT based on the purchase price. The date you import it will be the date they work on, they won't backdate to an earlier purchase date.

Car99 · 17-11-2020 10:30am

Justinwick wrote: »

Thanks. Do you think presenting it in January, after the end of the brexit transition period will result in it treated as coming from outside the eu and result in the higher custom duty and vat? Looks like it

As it stands , after 31st December 2020 UK imports will be subject to VAT 21% and import duty 10% same as all other non EU imports .

unfit2006 · 17-11-2020 11:50am

Car99 wrote: »

As it stands , after 31st December 2020 UK imports will be subject to VAT 21% and import duty 10% same as all other non EU imports .

Will items imported from Northern Ireland be subject to vat and/or import duty or will "the Ireland Protocol" have any bearing on how such goods are treated for vat and/or import duty ?

Justinwick · 17-11-2020 7:12pm

Car99 wrote: »

As it stands , after 31st December 2020 UK imports will be subject to VAT 21% and import duty 10% same as all other non EU imports .

Any chance this won’t happen ie is it set in stone?
Have a car coming in in february. Gonna make it very expensive

Car99 · 17-11-2020 7:36pm

unfit2006 wrote: »

Will items imported from Northern Ireland be subject to vat and/or import duty or will "the Ireland Protocol" have any bearing on how such goods are treated for vat and/or import duty ?

From Jan 1st 2021 NI is outside the EU as part of the UK. VAT and import duty will be due.

Car99 · 17-11-2020 7:40pm

Justinwick wrote: »

Any chance this won’t happen ie is it set in stone?
Have a car coming in in february. Gonna make it very expensive

It's not set in stone as negotiations are ongoing. UK playing hardball .
The other thing with import duty and VAT is they are payable before the goods can clear customs so if you're bringing in a car you got to pay or the car is impounded. Unlike VRT where a car can enter the state and if you choose not to pay VRT for one reason or another you can just remove it from the state.

Isambard · 17-11-2020 8:07pm

Car99 wrote: »

It's not set in stone as negotiations are ongoing. UK playing hardball .
The other thing with import duty and VAT is they are payable before the goods can clear customs so if you're bringing in a car you got to pay or the car is impounded. Unlike VRT where a car can enter the state and if you choose not to pay VRT for one reason or another you can just remove it from the state.

yes and you could be in a long queue for customs at the port (both sides potentially ) and I wonder would they shunt you to one side whilst calculating the tax. Not good

Car99 · 17-11-2020 11:33pm

Isambard wrote: »

yes and you could be in a long queue for customs at the port (both sides potentially ) and I wonder would they shunt you to one side whilst calculating the tax. Not good

Especially if your import requires a valuation from Rosslare if they dont agree with your own valuation . It will be very difficult if there is a no deal Brexit

Isambard · 18-11-2020 10:23am

Car99 wrote: »

Especially if your import requires a valuation from Rosslare if they dont agree with your own valuation . It will be very difficult if there is a no deal Brexit

well i think the excise duty and VAT will be based on the invoice but I can see them wanting to sort the VRT too at the same time and my guess is imported cars could be held up for days.

hi5 · 18-11-2020 11:00am

I've noticed an awful lot of UK reg cars on Done deal at the moment (and prices seem to be dropping by the day).
If as said the appointment dates with the NCT for VRT assessment are now running into January then there is going to be a lot of stuff out there which is unsaleable for the moment.

kadman · 18-11-2020 11:20am

hi5 wrote: »

I've noticed an awful lot of UK reg cars on Done deal at the moment (and prices seem to be dropping by the day).
If as said the appointment dates with the NCT for VRT assessment are now running into January then there is going to be a lot of stuff out there which is unsaleable for the moment.

If they are unsaleable at the moment, then they are also unbuyable:)

unless you want to face an unknown tax burden with the forthcoming brexit.

unkel · 18-11-2020 11:32am

hi5 wrote: »

I've noticed an awful lot of UK reg cars on Done deal at the moment (and prices seem to be dropping by the day).
If as said the appointment dates with the NCT for VRT assessment are now running into January then there is going to be a lot of stuff out there which is unsaleable for the moment.

Exactly what I predicted. I would urge anyone in here not to buy a car on UK regs anymore. Unless of course you want to take a gamble and you reckon a hard Brexit will not happen

PauloMN · 18-11-2020 11:36am

Car99 wrote: »

As it stands , after 31st December 2020 UK imports will be subject to VAT 21% and import duty 10% same as all other non EU imports .

On what value would the VAT and duty be charged at on a classic?

Say I'm bringing in a car I've paid £5k for in the UK, 30 year old or more. Currently it's the €200 VRT. Is it now going to be an additional 21% of the purchase price, and 10% on the purchase price for import duty?

Gonna rule out a lot of cars realistically if that's the case.

kadman · 18-11-2020 11:47am

Of course this situation gives a perfect opportunity for the ringers to make a comeback,

and I am not talking bell ringers;)

Car99 · 18-11-2020 12:27pm

Isambard wrote: »

well i think the excise duty and VAT will be based on the invoice but I can see them wanting to sort the VRT too at the same time and my guess is imported cars could be held up for days.

Based on the invoice normally but revenue reserve the right to assess goods based on market value if they so wish to stop me rocking up with a hand written invoice for €50.

VRT is contracted to NCT crowd so they wont be bothered about that.

Car99 · 18-11-2020 12:30pm

PauloMN wrote: »

On what value would the VAT and duty be charged at on a classic?

Say I'm bringing in a car I've paid £5k for in the UK, 30 year old or more. Currently it's the €200 VRT. Is it now going to be an additional 21% of the purchase price, and 10% on the purchase price for import duty?

Gonna rule out a lot of cars realistically if that's the case.

It's going to be 10% of the cost of the goods including shipping costs.

Then 21% VAT of the total . (23% post covid)

Isambard · 18-11-2020 12:55pm

PauloMN wrote: »

On what value would the VAT and duty be charged at on a classic?

Say I'm bringing in a car I've paid £5k for in the UK, 30 year old or more. Currently it's the €200 VRT. Is it now going to be an additional 21% of the purchase price, and 10% on the purchase price for import duty?

Gonna rule out a lot of cars realistically if that's the case.

and VAT on the transport costs too I think. Seems very likely, hard to see what deal can be done.

unkel · 18-11-2020 1:07pm

I think it is 10% import duty over the cost of the car + cost of transport to get it here + costs of insurance to get it here and then 21% VAT on top of the lot of that (tax on tax) and then of course also the VRT which will remain at €200 as long as the car is >30 years old

So if the car was GBP1800, transport €800 and €200 insurance, you pay 10% (€2000+€800+€200) = €300 import duty and then 21% (€3000 + €300) = €700 VAT and €200 VRT

So €4200 in total for your GBP1800 car!

kadman · 18-11-2020 1:55pm

unkel wrote: »

I think it is 10% import duty over the cost of the car + cost of transport to get it here + costs of insurance to get it here and then 21% VAT on top of the lot of that (tax on tax) and then of course also the VRT which will remain at €200 as long as the car is >30 years old

So if the car was GBP1800, transport €800 and €200 insurance, you pay 10% (€2000+€800+€200) = €300 import duty and then 21% (€3000 + €300) = €700 VAT and €200 VRT

So €4200 in total for your GBP1800 car!

Ouch..

Looks like Irish classics will be more expensive too then..

Car99 · 18-11-2020 2:00pm

unkel wrote: »

I think it is 10% import duty over the cost of the car + cost of transport to get it here + costs of insurance to get it here and then 21% VAT on top of the lot of that (tax on tax) and then of course also the VRT which will remain at €200 as long as the car is >30 years old

So if the car was GBP1800, transport €800 and €200 insurance, you pay 10% (€2000+€800+€200) = €300 import duty and then 21% (€3000 + €300) = €700 VAT and €200 VRT

So €4200 in total for your GBP1800 car!

I would think that would be worst case scenario for an £1800 car . You could save on shipping and insurance from the UK if you made the effort.
I wonder will it be complicated process clearing customs would the services of a handling agent be required to smooth and speed up the process for a normal punter.
I used a handling agent anytime I brought a car from Japan to make the process pain free for a reasonable fee.

unkel · 18-11-2020 6:40pm

Car99 wrote: »

I would think that would be worst case scenario for an £1800 car . You could save on shipping and insurance from the UK if you made the effort.

How much do you think it would cost to have someone pick up the car in the UK, ship it over the Irish sea, then bring it over to customs here in Ireland, arrange for all formalities and once done, pick it up and then drop the car to you at your home in Ireland? I don't think €1000 for all that including insurance is that extreme?

We'll never go back to the days, like when a few years ago, I got a €20 flight, a €65 ferry, a sandwich and a bottle of water at a service station in the UK and a glass of wine on the overnight ferry back, bringing in a car for the grand total of about €95

Car99 · 18-11-2020 10:43pm

unkel wrote: »

How much do you think it would cost to have someone pick up the car in the UK, ship it over the Irish sea, then bring it over to customs here in Ireland, arrange for all formalities and once done, pick it up and then drop the car to you at your home in Ireland? I don't think €1000 for all that including insurance is that extreme?

We'll never go back to the days, like when a few years ago, I got a €20 flight, a €65 ferry, a sandwich and a bottle of water at a service station in the UK and a glass of wine on the overnight ferry back, bringing in a car for the grand total of about €95

€1000 for all that if you could get someone to do it would be fine. I was thinking you could save money by doing as you did back in the day and pay a handling agent to look after the customs side at the port alot of which can be done in advance of the vehicle and you arriving at the port.
I paid €100 to look after the handling on and off the ferry plus customs clearance a number of years back on a car from Japan in Dublin port.

Isambard · 18-11-2020 10:56pm

kadman wrote: »

Ouch..

Looks like Irish classics will be more expensive too then..

cars already in the Republic will go up in value

Bigus · 19-11-2020 1:07am

Isambard wrote: »

cars already in the Republic will go up in value

Not when the ar5e falls out of prices on classics in the UK , it was also a safety valve here for an irish price floor which will now evaporate . Unsold irish classics were shipped over in bulk, during our hard times and even up to recently in smaller numbers.

I can already see on eBay , project classics not meeting reserves and not selling in UK , in 18 months , I bet you’ll see pristine cars making buttons over there. The hard part is going to be how to decide which ones to jump on and when.

kadman · 19-11-2020 9:54am

If the UK market as a source of classic cars for a potential buyer
is now gone because of the change in vat,tax,and customs,

then the only market is Ireland or an eu country, then I can only see prices rising
here.

Of course only time will tell.

unkel · 19-11-2020 10:28am

Bigus wrote: »

it was also a safety valve here for an irish price floor which will now evaporate . Unsold irish classics were shipped over in bulk, during our hard times

All true.

The value of Irish classics still here is extremely low at the moment though, our hobby was decimated because of the recession. People were forced to put there cars up for sale, with little to no demand (here), with many good cars going back across the pond and the value of remaining cars collapsing. And the current crisis didn't help when people (like myself) driving a lot less than before really couldn't justify keeping classic cars as well as their normal cars

I can't really see them go down in value even further unless we get a recession that's even worse than the last one (which was the worst in nearly 100 years). Can't see it happening. Or should I see I sure hope it won't be happening!

Car99 · 19-11-2020 11:53pm

kadman wrote: »

If the UK market as a source of classic cars for a potential buyer
is now gone because of the change in vat,tax,and customs,

then the only market is Ireland or an eu country, then I can only see prices rising
here.

Of course only time will tell.

LHD cars will have to become a considered option and as someone who drives a LHD classic car here it's not a problem. I would buy another LHD without hesitation.

hi5 · 20-11-2020 11:43am

Car99 wrote: »

LHD cars will have to become a considered option and as someone who drives a LHD classic car here it's not a problem. I would buy another LHD without hesitation.

Same here, into American cars mostly.
Autoscout is worth a look.

https://www.autoscout24.com/lst/chevrolet?sort=price&desc=0&ustate=N%2CU&size=20&page=1&priceto=100000&pricefrom=500&fregto=1990&fregfrom=1944&atype=C&

w124man · 21-11-2020 7:11pm

The days of going across to the UK, buying a car and driving it back on your classic policy are gone too. Insurance companies in the EU wont cover cars registered outside the EU and after Brexit the UK will be out.
This is a question I was asked recently and I didn't know the answer so I asked a family member who is in the Insurance industry. A UK registered car will need a Green Card to drive in Europe - that bit is on the UK Gov website - so the Insurance companies would need to be a bit flexible.

Revenue will require an invoice/receipt/proof of payment when the car comes off the boat so the figure used there for import duty and VAT will be the minimum figure used for the VRT as it will be on the clearance certificate.

turbocab · 21-11-2020 8:11pm

Bigus wrote: »

Not when the ar5e falls out of prices on classics in the UK , it was also a safety valve here for an irish price floor which will now evaporate . Unsold irish classics were shipped over in bulk, during our hard times and even up to recently in smaller numbers.

I can already see on eBay , project classics not meeting reserves and not selling in UK , in 18 months , I bet you’ll see pristine cars making buttons over there. The hard part is going to be how to decide which ones to jump on and when.

good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.

Car99 · 21-11-2020 11:12pm

turbocab wrote: »

good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.

Quality will always sell wherever it is located but 99.9% of classics are not top quality they are at best very good condition the other .1% or less are concours, low mileage or survivors of rare models which will always command a sizeable premium for the collector market. When it comes to useable driveable classics the market is more volatile.

turbocab · 21-11-2020 11:19pm

Car99 wrote: »

Quality will always sell wherever it is located but 99.9% of classics are not top quality they are at best very good condition the other .1% or less are concours, low mileage or survivors of rare models which will always command a sizeable premium for the collector market. When it comes to useable driveable classics the market is more volatile.

how about a manta gte with 40k on clock went for 22k sterling at anglia car auctions last week, and it had a respray.You wouldnt get 10 k euros here for that car.So even average classics are still commanding and getting good money in uk

RobAMerc · 22-11-2020 12:00am

I dont think it will matter if its a hard or soft brexit - Hard or soft will only be applicable to goods and maybe services imported to and from UK. Cars will always be treated differently, I doubt given how little effort is being invested that the importation of cars will be covered by any deal they do.

UK will be treated as a "third" country.

RobAMerc · 22-11-2020 12:03am

turbocab wrote: »

good cars are still fetching great money in uk .check results for last weeks silverstone auctions,eg porsche 928se sport 1989 .estimate was between 50 to 60 k. it sold for 129k.

is it that people are putting there cash into thinking Brexit is going to make cash worthless ?

Justinwick · 24-11-2020 8:10am

Looks like between now and next Tuesday Johnson and the EU are claiming that they will have some sort of agreement in place regarding trade so just hoping now that it is broad and covers cars

Car99 · 24-11-2020 9:10am

Justinwick wrote: »

Looks like between now and next Tuesday Johnson and the EU are claiming that they will have some sort of agreement in place regarding trade so just hoping now that it is broad and covers cars

The UK buy alot of cars and commercial vehicles from the EU so I would be hopeful vehicles will be included in any deal. Our friends in Revenue will try to find a way to make it more expensive to import though anywhere they see an opportunity.

w124man · 24-11-2020 9:38pm

Car99 wrote: »

The UK buy alot of cars and commercial vehicles from the EU so I would be hopeful vehicles will be included in any deal. Our friends in Revenue will try to find a way to make it more expensive to import though anywhere they see an opportunity.

When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

Its not up to the Revenue

Isambard · 24-11-2020 10:57pm

w124man wrote: »

When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

Its not up to the Revenue

unless there's a deal

Car99 · 24-11-2020 11:26pm

w124man wrote: »

When the UK is out of the EU WTO rules apply. Cars from the UK will attract the same tariffs as those coming in from Japan which we don't moan about.

Its not up to the Revenue

For new vehicles yes it's not up to revenue but the value of your secondhand import may be determined by revenue so whilst the rates mate not be up to them the value of the goods can be if they see fit.

I've brought cars from Japan and I moaned about the tariffs aswel but the cars were alot cheaper in Japan than the UK back then when the JPY was weak so it was still financially a good deal.

traco · 25-11-2020 9:31am

VAT is applicable irresepective of deal or no deal. That will be based on purchase price including transport costs to Ireland. Duty is the only thing that is up for review. A 3rd country with no deal will be 10% so if there is something agreed it may come down in the future but who knows.

Unknowns:
Original UK cars that have been registered in NI?? Will they be included or not?
Buying something that needs work - will revenue accept the invoice and tansfer or will they place their own "valuation" on it?

RobAMerc · 25-11-2020 8:38pm

Isambard wrote: »

unless there's a deal

the deal will have to include a no tariff deal on cars - it most probably wont.

Europe has a trade deal with Japan - you still pay tariffs on imported cars from there.

w124man · 26-11-2020 10:53pm

Bringing cars in at this time could be tricky for a number of reasons, the uncertainty of whats around the corner or not is the biggest.

I'm looking at a W124 which I really should buy but I cant get over to view because of covid. Even if I could, I'm unlikely get a VRT appointment this year so I could be charged VAT and duty if it gets dragged into 2021 as the car will need a time consuming valuation. Deal or no deal wont change the fact that the UK will be a 'third country' and tax wise it must be treated so.

I think we will see a lot more LHD classics in future

RobAMerc · 28-11-2020 1:22am

due to the backlog - I imagine making a booking in 2020 for a vrt inspection on a car thats in Ireland before 31 Dec 2020 should be subject to 2020 rules, even if the actual inspection is in 2021

Isambard · 28-11-2020 9:42am

you'd think... but not what people seem to be saying.

w124man · 28-11-2020 7:05pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

due to the backlog - I imagine making a booking in 2020 for a vrt inspection on a car thats in Ireland before 31 Dec 2020 should be subject to 2020 rules, even if the actual inspection is in 2021

So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no! Its all done on the day its presented and from 01/01/2021 all vehicles presented for VRT must be accompanied with a Customs Clearance Certificate. Its all on the Revenue site

macplaxton · 28-11-2020 7:51pm

Vehicles brought into the State from the UK before 1 January 2021 can be registered as normal.
Customers must provide documentation to prove that the vehicle was acquired prior to 1 January 2021.

For vehicles registered after 31 December 2020, Revenue may require proof that the importation process was tax and duty compliant.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

Car99 · 28-11-2020 7:52pm

w124man wrote: »

So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no! Its all done on the day its presented and from 01/01/2021 all vehicles presented for VRT must be accompanied with a Customs Clearance Certificate. Its all on the Revenue site

Could I go to customs Monday and ask for a customs clearance cert for a car I'm bringing in from the uk even though zero tax or vat due .

RobAMerc · 28-11-2020 8:43pm

w124man wrote: »

So if the car has been in the country for 20 years will be subject to 2020 rules? Eh no!

I think you know well I meant for a car that has had the booking made within 30days of being in the country but unable to get an appointment before 31/12 due to the backlog.

If the car was here 20 years there would be a crap ton of penalties to pay anyway

Additional VRT is charged when a vehicle is not registered within 30 days.

The additional VRT is added to the total VRT due. The additional charge is calculated by multiplying the total VRT due by 0.1%. An additional 0.1% is added on for every day the vehicle is not registered, from the date of its first entry.

Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

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