Football & Coronavirus Feedback thread part 2. [READ THE FIRST POST]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for giving us all the opportunity to voice our opinions on things and I'll try and add mine is as plain as fashion as I can mange.

Firstly I will take responsibility for my actions, unlike a lot of others on here. A lot of the posters who are just as responsible as me (and in many cases worse at it) for derailing threads and dragging them down to the gutter continued to throw mud and try and blame others and not look in the mirror. I stepped over the line, I've taken my lumps and served my bans.

The forum has been on the downslide for years and here's what I think the main points are.

Moderators

The fact that guys like Lord TSC and GavRedKing who were great moderators stepped away from things left a huge void in the mod pool. My impression was that these were the senior boys. They nipped things in the bud straight away and were quick to clamp down on any messing from posters. People knew what they could and couldn't get away with. When they issued cards and bans they actually took the time to speak to posters and explain why they were being banned. They were open to discussing what was happening with the poster, making suggestions on how posters could alter their behaviour

Since these guys have stepped away and the senior guy has been T4TF. I'm not trying to have a go at him in the following points. Unfortunately he's the polar opposite of these guys. Posters from one side now skirt the lines knowing little or no action will be taken. He won't thump his fist down and try to guide threads and poster behaviour in the way that Gav and TSC did previously. He's also has issues with posters and he tries to provoke them, which flies in the face of being a good moderator. He tried provoking me on the corona virus thread into a ban. I knew what he was doing and didn't respond. This is not good moderating when you're trying to intentionally get posters banned.

Champions league final 2018

Lets be honest, after this night the forum went over the edge and hasn't ever recovered from that. Moderators were missing in action that night and one of them actively was telling opposition fans to **** off. MrMac went idiotically over the edge, but the treatment of him by a small but vocal minority of offended posters that night was unbelievable. He was called a paedo and no action was taken. The only thing we had happen was MrMac being demoded a couple of days later. I'm not trying to defend him at all he was an idiot. There were threats against him personally which went way over the line. The vocal minority fur away with acts they'd be up in court over if they said things like they did in public. 

Since then the vocal minority from that night have led the forum on a merry dance. They claim there's absolutely nothing wrong with the forum. They claim that it's all made up by a certain group of supporters. They claim there's no bias involved in moderation. Even when supporters of clubs not involved stated they could see a bias one way, they shouted it down and said people were jealous that they were in the way back. It's nothing to do with them coming back, it's too do with consistently applied moderation.

This same minority group of people are so obsessed with one or two posters in the United group and their actions they tried to get the thanks button removed. If there's nothing wrong why do they want the thanks button removed? What has triggered such a reaction from such a minority. 

Steve started a thread about it and the same group then proceeded to attack one Manchester United supporter in particular, totally derailed the point of the thread and turned it into a witch hunt. The thread became totally pointless and drowned out in noise. Not unfamiliar tactics by the vocal minority. The same vocal minority group act like they've done nothing wrong.


Claims of bias

In 2018/19 there was a feeling that one moderator in particular was heavy handed towards Manchester United supporters. I agree with this view. When Beasty did a little dig he claimed that in a five week period that 17 cards were handed out to Liverpool supporters and 5 to United supporters, with 6 and 3 of those cards handed out by the moderator in question. Claims were made well he handed out 60% of United cards to less than 20% Liverpool. The fact is he handed out double the number to Liverpool fans. Beasty dismissed the claims but I think the point was totally missed. 

In five weeks, 17 cards to 5 were handed out. That's a startling number. These weren't even looked at. The same group of supporters that are claiming the forum is in rude health and nothing wrong seem to be the worst transgressors of the forum charter.

I might be out by one or two on that numbers but they're pretty close. 

Covid thread

The covid thread was started as a discussion of the impact on soccer. It quickly devolved into a vocal minority claiming football had to return almost at all costs (once safe to do so) and if you disagreed with them you didn't want them to win. They screamed you were wrong and just wanted to stop them. Most people said it needed to be safe to return, you couldn't divert vital resources in the current emergency climate for something that's claimed to be "the most important of the least important things"

I for my part tried to talk reasonably (not always but for the most part) but was attacked and nauseum by the minority for not saying they should get what they want. I don't see why I shouldn't voice my opinion, isn't that what boards is about? 

The thread was closed and two United supporters and one other were banned. No explanation was provided as to how this action was arrived at. Why two from one side and one from the other were banned. This looked odd. The thread continued to be a cesspit proving the the banned posters weren't the only root cause of the issues in the thread. No more bans were handed out. Why was that?

Roll on a week or so and the minority group had their poster allowed back. No explanation provided as to why this poster was allowed back. What had this poster done that they were deemed acceptable to return to posting. Why were the other two posters still banned. Why was one person deemed worthy of a return and the other two remained banned.  And no explanation has been provided for this still. It defies logic that within a couple of hours Steve had to lock the thread as the returning poster dragged it off course. This surely proved the other two still banned posters can't have been the only problem. 


Feedback threads

Steve to his credit has tried to give everyone a chance to air their opinions. When this happened more personal attacks from the vocal minority were made. The claimed there's was nothing wrong, despite multiple posters from several clubs saying there was. They resisted any and all suggestions of change. The only thing they took offence to was the thanks button. If as a group a minority of people take such offence and get so triggered by people thanking a post on the internet maybe the internet isn't for you. 

Steve started a thread about this with a poll and it was turned into a crusade to make a Manchester United supporter quit boards. Let's be very honest, in it's simplest form it was bullying. I believe the result of the poll is to keep the button. Unless we're going to pander to the minority again hopefully they will closer this topic. 


The way forward : 

In terms of a road map for the future,

Moderation

A new moderation team is required. I think Mickeroo and skylinehead are decent and should be retained. I don't believe either supports a big two club so they should be above any claims of bias. I'd nominate Shanotheslayer for mod. Again he doesn't support a big two club so can't be biased.

I think T4TF could be retained, but I feel it imperative that we have two moderators each from Manchester United and Liverpool, with T4TF being one of the Liverpool mods. I believe a new Liverpool moderator had been recently appointed. I think two new United mods are required. Beasty tries to do what he can but he's an admin and way to busy elsewhere in the forum to be a United mod. Manchester United are the largest supporter group on birds and should have the save mid representatives as Liverpool.

I think Liverpool supporters should only be moderated by Liverpool or independent mods and like wise for Manchester United. This would remove any and all claims of bias.

1) I think a charter which all posters must read and sign up to should be implemented. 

2) Moderators must consistently apply the charter. 

3) Thread bans should be done away with. If a poster is so disruptive, ban them under the ruling of being a dick head. However fair warning should be given to be poster that they can try and sheet their behaviour. 

4) Cards need to be consistently applied. Totting up and length of bans has been a mish mash for a long time and no one is sure anymore how long bans are for. This needs a clear set off rules that are applied.

5) Moderators need to step in a lot quicker on threads where conflict is brewing and issue warnings. 


Sub forums

I think it may be time to bring this in for Manchester United and Liverpool. Could it be trialled for six months. Moderators for each team can grant access to posters from the other but a one card and you're out should be applied. 


This had probably been a too long didnt read for most but I hope I've raised a couple of points with nothing. 


Steve thanks again for giving us the chance. Personally I'll try to be a better boards poster and keep of you and the other moderators radar.